Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[Domejandro]

I have a feeling flip would have drafted Murray over Dunn ( we needed the shooting)
And he would have drafted Mitchell ( too good to pass up) wolves would be in a much better place moving forward with that, but Thibs was impatient af! The wolves were in contention for the third seed but no one took them seriously and commentators constantly mocked Thib’s pathetic coaching.

Flip very likely would have drafted Lauri Markkanan, not Donovan Mitchell. That suggestion is ridiculous.

[shrink]

Did I miss something? Where was it ever reported that Taylor wouldn’t pay the super-max at the end of the season?

Last I heard, Jimmy’s people reportedly said he was frustrated about the money because MIN wouldn’t get $30 mil under the cap (not lux) to renegotiate his deal, not because Taylor refused to pay the supermax this summer?

Butler is not going to get that money now no matter where he is. This is about Bird Right's next season I believe. He certainly won't get that money with Miami and that is his #1 destination.

Any team that trades for Butler will get his full Bird rights, and so any of them can offer the full max.

Are you thinking of the Designated Veteran contract, which adds an additional 5% of the cap to a max deal? Those are only available to players that have stayed on the same team since their first contract, so when Jimmy got traded to MIN, he lost the ability to get a DV contract.

[shrink]

I am really disappointed by the conclusions I see people jumping to, blaming the current bad situation on whatever scapegoat they hate the most. Remember:

1. Correlation does not equal causation.

.. and along those lines...

2. Just because something preceded something else, it does not mean it caused it.

Wait for some facts before going way out on those limbs to trying to blame your favorite bad guy.

[KGdaBom]

lol @ 'Glen didn't let Thibs make HIS moves!'. We have more 11-12 Bulls on our roster than 16-17 Timberwolves. Thibs was able to mortgage the farm for Butler, trade Glen's favorite player, pay double market value for Taj, etc

We didn't mortgage squat for Butler. LaVine, Dunn and a draft pick swap that except for Patton's injuries might have worked out just fine. Taylor didn't let Thibs trade Wiggins and gave him a max contract instead. How bad has that screwed the Wolves? Getting the ex bulls has worked out very well. Butler is the best player on the team currently, Gibson played amazing for us, Rose and Deng are looking very good for vet minimum guys costing us almost nothing. In two seasons of Thibs one of Butler we were back in the playoffs. Sure those two are the problem . They are the scapegoats for Glen Taylor and his horrible decisions. Glen never put Forman and Paxton under the bus and he isn't putting Taylor under the bus either.

Didn't mortgage squat for Butler?? You can't be serious. That's a ridiculous comment.

We gave up 3, count them 3, lottery picks. That represented 150+ losses. 3 long years of losing. 3 seperate drafts that we argued about for months with our hopes held high for a new future. That was all gone in a flash on draft night 2017.

If Jimmy were staying here with a cap friendly deal that's one thing. But for him to bolt after 1 year and put us in a position to give up 3 lottery picks, and all the losing anguish in getting them, for the kind of crap we're talking about getting back in return is nothing short of a disaster.

I don't think anybody here is confident we'll get back anything close to value.

We gave up an injured LaVine, Dunn IMO a Proven Bust and a draft pick swap. To me that is squat for a top ten player.

[KGdaBom]

Can we please stop calling Butler's next contract a supermax? He lost the chance to get that when he was traded by the Bulls. He is eligible for a regular max contract, but the team with Bird Rights can offer an extra year and higher raises per year than teams trying to sign him with cap space.

Butler's max contract next year is the same as KAT's if KAT makes an all NBA team. I thought it was a supermax and I was wrong. I'm very sorry but it is the exact same years and dollars that KAT signed for.

[Klomp]

Can we please stop calling Butler's next contract a supermax? He lost the chance to get that when he was traded by the Bulls. He is eligible for a regular max contract, but the team with Bird Rights can offer an extra year and higher raises per year than teams trying to sign him with cap space.

Math is hard....especially when people don't realize there are varying levels of max contracts.

[TheDominator273]

Can we please stop calling Butler's next contract a supermax? He lost the chance to get that when he was traded by the Bulls. He is eligible for a regular max contract, but the team with Bird Rights can offer an extra year and higher raises per year than teams trying to sign him with cap space.

Butler's max contract next year is the same as KAT's if KAT makes an all NBA team. I thought it was a supermax and I was wrong. I'm very sorry but it is the exact same years and dollars that KAT signed for.

There's a level above what we or anyone else can offer Jimmy that is 5 yrs $200m+, that is what the Supermax contract refers to. What Curry, Westbrook etc all signed, the proper name is the Designated Veterans Player Extension or DVPE

[shrink]

KAT would most likely command the biggest trade package of all time, but I don't think Thibs was ever considering trading him. Giving KAT a Supermax extension was a no brainer. That was IMO one of the few times that Thibs and Taylor were on the same page.

I won't be able to respond after this.

Kat for Ayton rumor made alot of sense for both teams involved, him being a former team-mate of Booker & Ayton being a talented young, cheap big coming back to replace/reset Kat.

I don't know if true but it's something if I were in this position would definitely contemplate. I'd have Butler & Ayton, instead of Kat maxed & Butler wanting to walk for cents on the dollar.

It is my belief, and I hope I'm correct, that Ayton compared to KAT is a joke. Wolves would have needed Booker, along with Ayton, and another first round pick or two before even considering trading KAT to Phoenix.

That is what most of the neutral trade board thinks as well.

[FargoWolf]

I would have put all of my wolves gear in a bonfire if KAT was traded for Ayton. It would have been the end.

There is no telling if Butler would have wanted to play with Wiggins and a rookie that is a complete question mark.

[Nick K]

We didn't mortgage squat for Butler. LaVine, Dunn and a draft pick swap that except for Patton's injuries might have worked out just fine. Taylor didn't let Thibs trade Wiggins and gave him a max contract instead. How bad has that screwed the Wolves? Getting the ex bulls has worked out very well. Butler is the best player on the team currently, Gibson played amazing for us, Rose and Deng are looking very good for vet minimum guys costing us almost nothing. In two seasons of Thibs one of Butler we were back in the playoffs. Sure those two are the problem . They are the scapegoats for Glen Taylor and his horrible decisions. Glen never put Forman and Paxton under the bus and he isn't putting Taylor under the bus either.

Didn't mortgage squat for Butler?? You can't be serious. That's a ridiculous comment.

We gave up 3, count them 3, lottery picks. That represented 150+ losses. 3 long years of losing. 3 seperate drafts that we argued about for months with our hopes held high for a new future. That was all gone in a flash on draft night 2017.

If Jimmy were staying here with a cap friendly deal that's one thing. But for him to bolt after 1 year and put us in a position to give up 3 lottery picks, and all the losing anguish in getting them, for the kind of crap we're talking about getting back in return is nothing short of a disaster.

I don't think anybody here is confident we'll get back anything close to value.

We gave up an injured LaVine, Dunn IMO a Proven Bust and a draft pick swap. To me that is squat for a top ten player.

Well that squat are now three starters for the Chicago Bulls. Yes, 3 fifths of their starting unit came from the trade. I'll take that squat.

If I could get Zach and Markkanen for Jimmy right now I'd jump on it.

[KGdaBom]

Didn't mortgage squat for Butler?? You can't be serious. That's a ridiculous comment.

We gave up 3, count them 3, lottery picks. That represented 150+ losses. 3 long years of losing. 3 seperate drafts that we argued about for months with our hopes held high for a new future. That was all gone in a flash on draft night 2017.

If Jimmy were staying here with a cap friendly deal that's one thing. But for him to bolt after 1 year and put us in a position to give up 3 lottery picks, and all the losing anguish in getting them, for the kind of crap we're talking about getting back in return is nothing short of a disaster.

I don't think anybody here is confident we'll get back anything close to value.

We gave up an injured LaVine, Dunn IMO a Proven Bust and a draft pick swap. To me that is squat for a top ten player.

Well that squat are now three starters for the Chicago Bulls. Yes, 3 fifths of their starting unit came from the trade. I'll take that squat.

If I could get Zach and Markkanen for Jimmy right now I'd jump on it.

None of them would sniff a starting spot with us and none of them would increase our win total by 16. Markkanen does have some potential but right now Gibson is clearly better IMO. Does Dunn actually start??? Even if they would be in our rotation, rotation players don't move the needle much. Top ten players in the league do.

[Nick K]

We gave up an injured LaVine, Dunn IMO a Proven Bust and a draft pick swap. To me that is squat for a top ten player.

Well that squat are now three starters for the Chicago Bulls. Yes, 3 fifths of their starting unit came from the trade. I'll take that squat.

If I could get Zach and Markkanen for Jimmy right now I'd jump on it.

None of them would sniff a starting spot with us and none of them would increase our win total by 16. Does Dunn actually start???
Wow.

Are you kidding? Zach and Markkanen would both start for us.

Dunn is still recovering from his face plant concussion. That said, I liked Jamal Murray in that draft. Hield would have been ok too.

[LofJ]

Just send Butler to a bad team like the Nets and be done with it. They're crazy if they wouldn't take a Butler for Crabbe and RHJ swap. You can trade Dieng later in a separate trade.

[KGdaBom]

Well that squat are now three starters for the Chicago Bulls. Yes, 3 fifths of their starting unit came from the trade. I'll take that squat.

If I could get Zach and Markkanen for Jimmy right now I'd jump on it.

None of them would sniff a starting spot with us and none of them would increase our win total by 16. Does Dunn actually start???
Wow.

Are you kidding? Zach and Markkanen would both start for us.

Dunn is still recovering from his face plant concussion. That said, I liked Jamal Murray in that draft. Hield would have been ok too.

Zach start over Butler or Wiggins????? Markkanen start over Gibson. No way. How is it working out for Chicago having those three start?

[KGdaBom]

None of them would sniff a starting spot with us and none of them would increase our win total by 16. Does Dunn actually start???
Wow.

Are you kidding? Zach and Markkanen would both start for us.

Dunn is still recovering from his face plant concussion. That said, I liked Jamal Murray in that draft. Hield would have been ok too.

Zach start over Butler or Wiggins????? Markkanen start over Gibson. No way.

I too liked Murray over Dunn. I don't think I would have taken Hield over Dunn.

[Dewey]

butler feels like he's not getting moved because of the wolves front office not being active... well, news for jimmy ... you're in a pickle because you shoulda did this after the season, then we woulda had more options to organize fair value, and other teams maybe coulda provided better returns. he's proving to be somewhat of a clown.

[wolves_89]

Just send Butler to a bad team like the Nets and be done with it. They're crazy if they wouldn't take a Butler for Crabbe and RHJ swap. You can trade Dieng later in a separate trade.

Why would Minnesota settle for such a horrific trade return at this point? With the preseason games underway the rumors and speculation about Butler are dying down and everyone is settling in for a long process. The Wolves have already weathered the worst of the situation, it makes a lot of sense to use whatever time is needed up to the trade deadline to find a deal that helps the team (either now or in the future).

[LofJ]

Just send Butler to a bad team like the Nets and be done with it. They're crazy if they wouldn't take a Butler for Crabbe and RHJ swap. You can trade Dieng later in a separate trade.

Why would Minnesota settle for such a horrific trade return at this point? With the preseason games underway the rumors and speculation about Butler are dying down and everyone is settling in for a long process. The Wolves have already weathered the worst of the situation, it makes a lot of sense to use whatever time is needed up to the trade deadline to find a deal that helps the team (either now or in the future).

I hope you can get a good deal, trying to move Dieng along with Butler complicates things a lot though (unnecessarily imo).

[shrink]

Just send Butler to a bad team like the Nets and be done with it. They're crazy if they wouldn't take a Butler for Crabbe and RHJ swap. You can trade Dieng later in a separate trade.

You meant Wiggins, right?

That’s a negative package.

[KGdaBom]

Just send Butler to a bad team like the Nets and be done with it. They're crazy if they wouldn't take a Butler for Crabbe and RHJ swap. You can trade Dieng later in a separate trade.

Why would Minnesota settle for such a horrific trade return at this point? With the preseason games underway the rumors and speculation about Butler are dying down and everyone is settling in for a long process. The Wolves have already weathered the worst of the situation, it makes a lot of sense to use whatever time is needed up to the trade deadline to find a deal that helps the team (either now or in the future).

I hope you can get a good deal, trying to move Dieng along with Butler complicates things a lot though (unnecessarily imo).

Agreed. I actually think Dieng will have a good season.