2019 NBA draft part deux

[KGdaBom]

I can see Clarke falling into 20s. Draymond can defend any bigman in NBA, while Clarke will be killed in postup. And yeah, his shooting form make Draymond look as Steph Curry.

So following characteristics I would like to see in our #11 pick

* - wingspan for position
* - 18-20 yrs old
* - not broken shooting form
* - good motor
* - defensive potential

P.S. Seikou has same standing reach as Siakam. However he has not so big hands, which is clear as he has soft release, but can hurt his finishing ability (see Wiggins example)

Do you want to bet on that?

I think you want

I would love to bet on that. How about $20 US.

[minimus]

Do you want to bet on that?

I think you want

I would love to bet on that. How about $20 US.

I am ok with post card

[KGdaBom]

I have no problem picking Brandon Clarke, but he has really obvious limitations that should be acknowledged. I have seen him compared to Shawn Marion, but it is important to keep in context that (coming out of college two whole years younger), Shawn Marion was substantially more advanced as a shooter, weighed more, and had a wingspan that has been estimated to be around seven feet and two inches wide. There are guards (for example, Kevin Porter Jr.) that weigh more and have longer wingspans than Brandon Clarke and for context, he weighs even less than Cameron Reddish (who has a wingspan that is over four inches longer).

I personally like Brandon Clarke a lot, and think he will carve out a career, but he has MASSIVE limitations and has mediocre-to-poor measureables for a Small-Forward, much less for a Power-Forward. Fortunately he is a phenomenal athlete, but these are crazy red flags.

His length measurables are mediocre to poor. His athletic measurables are VERY good.

[SO_MONEY]

If Brandon Clarke is really a "boom or just be really good player" draft prospect, he obviously wouldn't be falling to our pick; I am someone who actually likes the guy, but this is getting ridiculous, there ARE massive inherent risks with drafting him.

I'm going slightly overboard to counter some really ridiculous $hit. However, I think he is virtually risk free and could be an all star down the road. Hopefully Shawn Marion 2.0.

I think there is a problem if you think it is ridiculous that he can't shoot. I also think there is a problem if you don't think it is ridiculous to say he is virtually risk free.

The truth is he can't shoot and the game has changed to where players who only score around the basket are less valuable and limits offense and spacing. There are massive risks as stated. He will be a good hustle guy and defender and if we were picking at 17 or so I wouldn't have a problem drafting a bench defender (I might like others more), but at 11 you need to try and take a guy that moves the needle more because you can get defenders and hustle guys in FA.

[Mattya]

It's all how you spin it in who you think will be the best player. It's actually pretty easy to spin that Zion won't be very good. Too short and not much of a shot. Stuff like that. I like Clarke for already being an extremely almost historically good college player. Something about him and Zion having the best per ever or something like that. I'm a big fan of defense and his defense is very good. We will see. Maybe the Suns take him at 6. If Clarke does get drafted before us it could easily move someone desirable to our 11 pick. I'm not locked in on Clarke as if he is the only choice.

It is pretty funny that people are so locked in on Clarke being a major bust because of his arms, but yet those same people proclaim Zion as the second-coming when he has some of the same concerns about arm length/reach.

All these bad faith arguments ignoring age and actual offensive ability.

[SO_MONEY]

It's all how you spin it in who you think will be the best player. It's actually pretty easy to spin that Zion won't be very good. Too short and not much of a shot. Stuff like that. I like Clarke for already being an extremely almost historically good college player. Something about him and Zion having the best per ever or something like that. I'm a big fan of defense and his defense is very good. We will see. Maybe the Suns take him at 6. If Clarke does get drafted before us it could easily move someone desirable to our 11 pick. I'm not locked in on Clarke as if he is the only choice.

It is pretty funny that people are so locked in on Clarke being a major bust because of his arms, but yet those same people proclaim Zion as the second-coming when he has some of the same concerns about arm length/reach.

All these bad faith arguments ignoring age and actual offensive ability.

Honestly, all it tells me is I should be really pissed at my folks for not being tall athletes, because I could just coast on effort on the court and put nothing in off of it to the point I was 23 and didn't know how to shoot and still have supporters who though I was a lottery pick.

[wesleyt95]

It's all how you spin it in who you think will be the best player. It's actually pretty easy to spin that Zion won't be very good. Too short and not much of a shot. Stuff like that. I like Clarke for already being an extremely almost historically good college player. Something about him and Zion having the best per ever or something like that. I'm a big fan of defense and his defense is very good. We will see. Maybe the Suns take him at 6. If Clarke does get drafted before us it could easily move someone desirable to our 11 pick. I'm not locked in on Clarke as if he is the only choice.

It is pretty funny that people are so locked in on Clarke being a major bust because of his arms, but yet those same people proclaim Zion as the second-coming when he has some of the same concerns about arm length/reach.

All these bad faith arguments ignoring age and actual offensive ability.

If worse comes to worse we’re drafting Rui or Nassir, Clarke slides to the 20’s

[SO_MONEY]

Oh baby... entertaining stuff going on here.

If the Wolves pick Clarke then I trust it, but he’s not my preferred pick. That shooting form is sooo ugly and you would not think it would work in the NBA. If the hope is that he’s Draymond, it doesn’t seem like he has near the passing or IQ of Draymond, but I’d be willing to let it play out and see how it goes.

I can see Clarke falling into 20s. Draymond can defend any bigman in NBA, while Clarke will be killed in postup. And yeah, his shooting form make Draymond look as Steph Curry.

So following characteristics I would like to see in our #11 pick

* - wingspan for position
* - 18-20 yrs old
* - not broken shooting form
* - good motor
* - defensive potential

P.S. Seikou has same standing reach as Siakam. However he has not so big hands, which is clear as he has soft release, but can hurt his finishing ability (see Wiggins example)

Do you want to bet on that?

I have Clarke at 17 and the players behind him are all pushing, so falling into the 20's is not an unlikely scenario given his age, poor shot and weight/measurements. It is what it is.

[KGdaBom]

If Brandon Clarke is really a "boom or just be really good player" draft prospect, he obviously wouldn't be falling to our pick; I am someone who actually likes the guy, but this is getting ridiculous, there ARE massive inherent risks with drafting him.

I'm going slightly overboard to counter some really ridiculous $hit. However, I think he is virtually risk free and could be an all star down the road. Hopefully Shawn Marion 2.0.

I think there is a problem if you think it is ridiculous that he can't shoot. I also think there is a problem if you don't think it is ridiculous to say he is virtually risk free.

The truth is he can't shoot and the game has changed to where players who only score around the basket are less valuable and limits offense and spacing. There are massive risks as stated. He will be a good hustle guy and defender and if we were picking at 17 or so I wouldn't have a problem drafting a bench defender (I might like others more), but at 11 you need to try and take a guy that moves the needle more because you can get defenders and hustle guys in FA.

Clarke is a great shooter evidenced by his 70% on good volume and his 52% jump shooting. Saying he can't shoot is 100% ignorant.

[SO_MONEY]

I'm going slightly overboard to counter some really ridiculous $hit. However, I think he is virtually risk free and could be an all star down the road. Hopefully Shawn Marion 2.0.

I think there is a problem if you think it is ridiculous that he can't shoot. I also think there is a problem if you don't think it is ridiculous to say he is virtually risk free.

The truth is he can't shoot and the game has changed to where players who only score around the basket are less valuable and limits offense and spacing. There are massive risks as stated. He will be a good hustle guy and defender and if we were picking at 17 or so I wouldn't have a problem drafting a bench defender (I might like others more), but at 11 you need to try and take a guy that moves the needle more because you can get defenders and hustle guys in FA.

Clarke is a great shooter evidenced by his 70% on good volume and his 52% jump shooting. Saying he can't shoot is 100% ignorant.

LOL.

[KGdaBom]

It's all how you spin it in who you think will be the best player. It's actually pretty easy to spin that Zion won't be very good. Too short and not much of a shot. Stuff like that. I like Clarke for already being an extremely almost historically good college player. Something about him and Zion having the best per ever or something like that. I'm a big fan of defense and his defense is very good. We will see. Maybe the Suns take him at 6. If Clarke does get drafted before us it could easily move someone desirable to our 11 pick. I'm not locked in on Clarke as if he is the only choice.

It is pretty funny that people are so locked in on Clarke being a major bust because of his arms, but yet those same people proclaim Zion as the second-coming when he has some of the same concerns about arm length/reach.

All these bad faith arguments ignoring age and actual offensive ability.

He's 22. I don't think that places him at the end of his career. He's an extremely efficient offensive player. Who's arguing in bad faith?

[KGdaBom]

I think there is a problem if you think it is ridiculous that he can't shoot. I also think there is a problem if you don't think it is ridiculous to say he is virtually risk free.

The truth is he can't shoot and the game has changed to where players who only score around the basket are less valuable and limits offense and spacing. There are massive risks as stated. He will be a good hustle guy and defender and if we were picking at 17 or so I wouldn't have a problem drafting a bench defender (I might like others more), but at 11 you need to try and take a guy that moves the needle more because you can get defenders and hustle guys in FA.

Clarke is a great shooter evidenced by his 70% on good volume and his 52% jump shooting. Saying he can't shoot is 100% ignorant.

LOL.

You can lol all you want. I will put his shooting efficiency up against anybody you want to compare him to. If you find somebody who is a more efficient shooter I bet that player doesn't offer anywhere near the same other aspects of the game. So I'm waiting. Name the player.

[SO_MONEY]

Clarke is a great shooter evidenced by his 70% on good volume and his 52% jump shooting. Saying he can't shoot is 100% ignorant.

LOL.

You can lol all you want. I will put his shooting efficiency up against anybody you want to compare him to. If you find somebody who is a more efficient shooter I bet that player doesn't offer anywhere near the same other aspects of the game. So I'm waiting. Name the player.

Al Jefferson was a good jump shooter too...yawn.

[KGdaBom]

LOL.

You can lol all you want. I will put his shooting efficiency up against anybody you want to compare him to. If you find somebody who is a more efficient shooter I bet that player doesn't offer anywhere near the same other aspects of the game. So I'm waiting. Name the player.

Al Jefferson was a good jump shooter too...yawn.

Al Jefferson was a good NBA player. Watching him in the post was like watching a great ballet. I'm still waiting for you to name the draft eligible player that is a more efficient shooter than Clarke. I will probably be waiting until hell freezes over.

[Mattya]

It is pretty funny that people are so locked in on Clarke being a major bust because of his arms, but yet those same people proclaim Zion as the second-coming when he has some of the same concerns about arm length/reach.

All these bad faith arguments ignoring age and actual offensive ability.

He's 22. I don't think that places him at the end of his career. He's an extremely efficient offensive player. Who's arguing in bad faith?

You

[SO_MONEY]

You can lol all you want. I will put his shooting efficiency up against anybody you want to compare him to. If you find somebody who is a more efficient shooter I bet that player doesn't offer anywhere near the same other aspects of the game. So I'm waiting. Name the player.

Al Jefferson was a good jump shooter too...yawn.

Al Jefferson was a good NBA player. I'm still waiting for you to name the draft eligible player that is a more efficient shooter than Clarke. I will probably be waiting until hell freezes over.

If you count jump-shots as liberally as they are then the "case study" that came out like a decade ago claiming Al Jefferson was a good jump shooter to holds equal merit. Was Al Jefferson a good jump shooter? No of course not, neither is Clarke. Because we are not talking jump-shots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Being a good finisher, is not being a good shooter.

Got it?

[KGdaBom]

All these bad faith arguments ignoring age and actual offensive ability.

He's 22. I don't think that places him at the end of his career. He's an extremely efficient offensive player. Who's arguing in bad faith?

You

You seem to be making up lies that Clarke can't shoot despite his 52% jump shooting and his incredible at the rim skills. That is arguing in very bad faith. I acknowledge that he hasn't demonstrated ability to shoot the 3, but there is so much more to shooting than shooting the three. Find me a draft eligible player who shot over 50% on jump shots with 3 or more shots per game other than Clarke. I'm not sure one exists.

[SO_MONEY]

He's 22. I don't think that places him at the end of his career. He's an extremely efficient offensive player. Who's arguing in bad faith?

You

You seem to be making up lies that Clarke can't shoot despite his 52% jump shooting and his incredible at the rim skills. That is arguing in very bad faith. I acknowledge that he hasn't demonstrated ability to shoot the 3, but there is so much more to shooting than shooting the three. Find me a draft eligible player who shot over 50% on jump shots with 3 or more shots per game other than Clarke. I'm not sure one exists.

LOL. Keep going back to the well like it has any value.

[Mattya]

He's 22. I don't think that places him at the end of his career. He's an extremely efficient offensive player. Who's arguing in bad faith?

You

You seem to be making up lies that Clarke can't shoot despite his 52% jump shooting and his incredible at the rim skills. That is arguing in very bad faith. I acknowledge that he hasn't demonstrated ability to shoot the 3, but there is so much more to shooting than shooting the three. Find me a draft eligible player who shot over 50% on jump shots with 3 or more shots per game other than Clarke. I'm not sure one exists.

Um... thanks for demonstrating my point. Didn't have to waste much time on you.

[KGdaBom]

Al Jefferson was a good jump shooter too...yawn.

Al Jefferson was a good NBA player. I'm still waiting for you to name the draft eligible player that is a more efficient shooter than Clarke. I will probably be waiting until hell freezes over.

If you count jump-shots as liberally as they are then the "case study" that came out like a decade ago claiming Al Jefferson was a good jump shooter to holds equal merit. Was Al Jefferson a good jump shooter? No of course not, neither is Clarke. Because we are not talking jump-shots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Got it?

What are we talking? 3 point shots and nothing else? I'm talking shooting in all it's varieties. The 3 is an efficient shot for those who can make 35%, but it pales compared to Clarke who makes 70% overall. Even Clarkes 52% jump shooting is just as good.Name me the player who is a more efficient shooter than Clarke. You can't right?