Summer league 2024 thread

[minimus]

I wish we had a bigman like Jay Huff who does not look like skilled bigman, but plays big

Also I feel like Rob would average two assists more every SL game, if our bigs could catch every his pass.

[BlacJacMac]

Just a side note: without TSJ and Clark our energy level was completely different. Yes, we still won this game, but I already love what both TSJ and Clark can bring.

I still think Clark plays most, if not all, of the year in Iowa.

His offense is still a mess and his 3rd game was a disaster on offense and even his defense slipped considerably.

[BlacJacMac]

I think there’s kinda some levels to the value of the Wolves playing faster next season. Tim Connelly stated this was a driving factor behind drafting both Dillingham and Shannon — two guys who clearly generate a lot of their offensive value by playing up-tempo and in transition.

I thought of this originally as “ok, very few players who got out in transition on the roster last year, but now they got two” — thinking of it more like addition than multiplication. But I think the levels to it, the multiplication of it is how much the other Wolves players will individually benefit from that pace Shannon and Dillingham bring in — or, through those additions, just becoming a team where it is more natural to get out and run.

More pace, leads to more transition, which leads to confusing the defense more, which leads to crossed-up matchups. And the Wolves very big and very athletic roster pieces should really be able to swiftly punish mismatches. If you don’t guard KAT / Rudy / Ant / Naz / even McDaniels with the right-sized matchup, that’s gonna be a problem.

The Wolves playing faster — even just turning semi-transition possessions into transition possessions — should be a problem for opposing defenses. This possession reminded me of that.

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[KATKlownFeet]

Just a side note: without TSJ and Clark our energy level was completely different. Yes, we still won this game, but I already love what both TSJ and Clark can bring.

I still think Clark plays most, if not all, of the year in Iowa.

His offense is still a mess and his 3rd game was a disaster on offense and even his defense slipped considerably.

Yeah, I agree. Clark was like 22% shooter. He was so so bad. OK, he stunk for three games and one great game. He's only a steals specialist and he'll at least have to shoot 35% overall and 30% on 3s, or he'll be completely unplayable. Imagine Clark and Gobert together, that's only 3 guys the opps have to defend.

[Klomp]

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[Greenbolt90]

my thoughts on the summer league performance of every timberwolves player i found relevant going from who i thought played the worst to who i thought played the best:

-Josh Minott

one of the things that i used to like about Minott is that he always brought a high motor whenever he came into the game. but this summer league that all but disappeared. it was particularly noticeable in Minott's off-ball defense, something that was once a strength of his. Minott did pick up the occasional block or deflection, but he was the main culprit for defensive transition breakdowns probably more than anyone on the team, committed to lazy gambles regularly, consistently shied away from physicality on rim rotations, had a littany of missed rotations in general, and often came across as disengaged to me

on the other end he's raw as ever. i suppose the shot has improved slightly, but not to the point where he's going to be providing any meaningful spacing. i simply don't see what Minott's value is at this point and watching him play it frankly looked like he's given up

-Jesse Edwards

i thought Jesse Edwards provided great rim protection, which was fun to watch. although i'm not sure how much of that would translate to the nba given that he's not a huge body, and is slow and fairly unathletic. and then there's the simple problem that outside of rim protection Jesse Edwards didn't do much of anything. given his lack of physical tools Edwards often needed backside help to assist him in his drop coverage, he struggled guarding spacing centers like Jay Huff, and offensively he displayed poor hands and showed pretty much nothing

-Jaylen Clark

legitimately great poa defender it appears and the only timberwolf who navigated screens well. misses some rotations, but great at anticipating passes and probably a good off-ball defender on the whole. offense has potential. good handle, willing passer, solid finisher, athletic, sturdy frame. but he'll need to develop a lot more on that end to earn a rotation spot

-Nadir Hifi

scoring can be the hardest thing to gauge in summer league because of the inferior competition, but Hifi appeared to have a pretty good midrange/slashing mixup. good 3pt shooter it seemed, good passer, good mover. as an on-ball defender his lack of size pretty much automatically makes him a negative, but his great effort and discipline make up for a lot of it. as an off-ball defender i found him a bit gambley, but solid overall. Hifi looked pretty good out there, but i guess the concern would be his scoring translating to the nba, particularly given how small he is. take away his scoring and his game looks much less impressive. like a McLaughlin-lite, which probably isn't a rotation player, and the timberwolves don't really have an open point guard spot on the roster anyway

-Leinard Miller

somehow i've got Leinard Miller this high and yet still feel pretty negatively about him. it's like he's a good summer league player, but in the nba i just still don't see him being worthwhile at this point. reminds me of Vando who's now being practically pushed out of the league. like Vando, Leinard Miller has a high motor, is a great rebounder, and is a good ball-handler and passer for a big with a bit of slashing. Leinard Miller is admittedly a better passer and slasher than Vando, but i think Miller has the same problem, which is that his offensive package just isn't good enough to justify him being even an ancillary ball-handler or scoring option in the nba. it's a versatile offensive package for a big, but is ultimately just meh and needs to be significantly upgraded to have any real use. then there's Leinard Miller's 3pt shot, which i keep hearing has really improved, but i'm not seeing the results. feels like one of those cases where he's making them in practice, but not the games. for now though his shooting doesn't seem to be good enough to provide meaningful spacing. where Leinard Miller does provide offensive value for now is with his timely rim dives, good passing, and exceptional offensive rebounding

defensively he has the potential, but right now he's very much a work in progress to me. reminds me of Naz. good mobility for a big, but moderately struggles staying in front of most perimeter players regardless. ostensibly too small to be a defensive 5, but as a defensive 4 struggles guarding on the perimeter, and Leinard Miller is likely an abysmal post defender like Naz given his lack of size; there was just no one in summer league to capitalize on it. Leinard's drop spacing was horrible; he was often afraid to leave the big, which i think was a poor decision. if you're going to commit to someone in the drop commit to the ball-handler since someone will often be able to rotate to the big. it's much harder for people to rotate to the ball-handler. but Miller often stayed with the big and gave up layups to p&r ball-handlers. then on rim rotations he often rotated too deep and his lack of size & strength really limited his ability to stonewall guys at the rim. but he's a good shot blocker, which counteracted things a bit. as an off-ball defender Leinard Miller made a decent amount of good rotations, but between the regular transition D miscues and the missed rotations i'd label his off-ball defense as moderately poor. he frankly has a low natural basketball iq to me. like, he's learned how to make the most obvious of rotations, but layer on even the slightest bit of complexity and he often gets lost. a high motor and good physical tools keep his defense somewhat afloat though and i do give him good potential on that end

-Terrence Shannon Jr

had a weird summer league. amazing first game and then really tailed off. earns this high of a spot mainly off the potential he showed. i'm not sure why teams continue to pass up on these guys who have 'personal problems' or whatever and they end up falling like 10+ spots compared to what their pure talent level would indicate. it happened with Jaden who was said to have a hot temper and now Terrence Shannon Jr. who knows what Shannon will develop into, but the timberwolves appear to have gotten a steal and i honestly give it a 50/50 shot that Shannon just ends up replacing Ingles in the rotation sometime this year. between the size, athleticism, and iq there's just so much potential. defensively i thought Shannon was a bit on the slow side, more of just a guy who can guard 3s, but i think he can guard 3s very well and perhaps 2s/4s situationally. moderately good off-ball defender, made a fair amount of mistakes, but pretty smart by & large. offensively he appeared to be a good passer with a solid shot and a very good slashing game, but we'll see how the latter translates to the nba. if it mostly does then he might just take that spot from Ingles

-Rob Dillingham

in the first 4 games Dillingham put up those woeful shooting numbers, but you could see the potential. like, between the great shooting, the off-ball ability, and the off-the-dribble scoring there was something ostensibly there; it was just covered up by poor shot selection and perhaps bad shooting luck. and then in the summer league finale Dillingham put on that show. as has been the theme with these evaluations i think it's just so difficult to say whether or not the scoring will translate, so that's the real question mark. if it does then we've got quite a player on our hands, but even if it doesn't, if the woeful shooting numbers really were indicative of something actually concerning, or the summer league finale was a mirage, Dillingham's spacing & playmaking appear to be very real. it was really fun watching his playmaking, which is probably already legitimately good and could even be very good. the thing about Dillingham too is that he's not just a very good passer, but he's a willing passer, and isn't very ball-dominant, so the timberwolves' offense shouldn't have to pay a tax to add Dillingham's positives to the equation

but where the timberwolves will have to pay a hefty tax with Dillingham is on the other end where it might be impossible to understate just how bad he is. the rockets, presumably in an effort to keep the ball in the hands of Reed Sheppard, didn't attack Dillingham much, and the magic didn't attack him much either for whatever reason. but in those first 3 games Dillingham got targeted on switches maybe more than i've seen anyone attacked ever, it was pretty insane. he's a horrible screen navigator, gets blown by at a ridiculous rate, and then the few times he does stay in front often result in him getting overpowered on a drive or easily shot over because he's so small. when guarding p&r the timberwolves literally had to start bringing their bigs up into a high drop to completely commit to the ball-handler and then rotate someone else on the backside to cover the roller, or bring really heavy gap help because Dillingham's defense was that bad (although i admit that Miller's/Edwards' porous drop D could've also contributed). then Dillingham's off-ball defense is just as bad. falls asleep and loses his man all the time, regularly botches switches, and misses rotations constantly with his size limiting his effectiveness even when he does rotate

thankfully the timberwolves have one of the most defensively stacked teams in the league to cover for Dillingham on that end, but i do worry that his defense might just be so bad that he won't be worthwhile to play. the horrific defensive shortcomings might just outweigh the good offense

-Daishen Nix

he obviously doesn't have the potential of a Terrence Shannon Jr or a Rob Dillingham, but i thought Daishen Nix was the timberwolves' summer league mvp. fairly unathletic and not very big, but motor & iq carry his game. solid scorer, at least in summer league, a borderline good playmaker, good spacer, good mover. just has a nice team-oriented offensive game and checks a lot of boxes. then i thought he was the timberwolves' best defensive player. he did struggle with screen navigation, but motor, discipline, and that wide frame enabled him to be practically a brick wall otherwise. and then i thought his rotations were great and he had an amazing knack for sneaking near ball-handlers as an off-ball defender and picking up deflections

needless to say i think Dillingham & NAW probably have the backup guard spots locked up; Dillingham on sheer potential. but i think there's a small chance that Dillingham's offense really doesn't pan out this year and with his horrific defense Finch decides he can't justify keeping him in the rotation and gives the spot to Nix instead. otherwise Nix could have potential as a backup in the post-Conley era

[Saltine]

Good thoughts.... though Nix is 6'5", 225, which is pretty damn big for a PG, same size as Ant. Leonard is only 20, Josh is 21, and Rob was born Jan 4, 2005... They all need a lot more basetball experience. Nix should be a fine PG3, he's got a decent understanding of the role.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2025.html

[winforlose]

Just a side note: without TSJ and Clark our energy level was completely different. Yes, we still won this game, but I already love what both TSJ and Clark can bring.

I still think Clark plays most, if not all, of the year in Iowa.

His offense is still a mess and his 3rd game was a disaster on offense and even his defense slipped considerably.

This. Plus, the Wolves signed him to a two year two way knowing he would have to red shirt year one. The expectation was likely that he would need time to develop his offense and adapt his defense to the NBA level. I think the only way Clark would have been a rotation player was to play consistently as well or better than NAW, and that wasn’t even close to happening in SL, much less the NBA.

[minimus]

Good thoughts.... though Nix is 6'5", 225, which is pretty damn big for a PG, same size as Ant. Leonard is only 20, Josh is 21, and Rob was born Jan 4, 2005... They all need a lot more basetball experience. Nix should be a fine PG3, he's got a decent understanding of the role.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2025.html

Finch always wanted to play big guards: DLo, Milton, NAW, Nowell etc. Nix has all chances to show himself this season as long as he plays defense, hit open threes, moves the ball and does all little things needed to win.

[Flashtaco]

I was happy with our SL team. They went 4-1 and basically played heavy minutes with a 19 year old rookie (Rob), 20 year old G-league (Miller), 21 year old G-League (Minnoit), 22 year old G league (Nix), 24 year old rookie (TSJ) and a 21 year old rookie (Clark). The other teams were playing with a mix of 25 plus year old vets with a mix of experience or rotational players (Heat, Rockets, Jazz, etc) that have NBA experience bring important experience to a Summer League team. I think those above 6 players all have a shot in the next year or two to develop and help the main team (all won't but there is a decent chance). Now we need to find a big man as Jesse Edwards isn't going to develop behind Garza.

Just look at Memphis. I realize they were injured so some of the players were forced into action but Larvia, GG, Jemmison and Pippen Jr. all played some solid NBA minutes last year. That makes a ton of difference when playing Summer League.

[KGdaBom]

my thoughts on the summer league performance of every timberwolves player i found relevant going from who i thought played the worst to who i thought played the best.

Thanks for the critiques.
Josh: I only saw the final game, but Josh looked good in that one.
Leonard: He does nothing but put up great numbers game after game and yet people always find fault with him.
Daishen: As another poster pointed out he's a huge PG.

[Clav]

Very happy with the Wolves SL performance this year. 4-1 is a nice record and I thought this team could have been in the SFs/Finals if not for the one loss but hey, good effort nonetheless.

Leonard Miller - showed flashes of his potential, which I think needs to be brought up to the NBA mroe this season. He has 2-way game, and he can be effective off the bench for TWolves. There's still some learning curve for Miller of course, but I really believe he's going to be a solid NBA player so he needs reps this season. Don't bury him in the GL...

Rob Dillingham - Loved the offensive touch around the court that Rob provided. He's a really deft scorer and will slot right into the Minnesota team to grab a few points when the bench is shuffling rotations. I see him contributing immediately. As the guy Greenbolt said (in his first post too! Welcome!!) Dillingham's defense is pretty noticeably lacking. He will be pushed around so I think he should be in the weight room and practicing fighting screens most of the offseason, and then force him to get shots up when he's been pushed and knocked around, because that's the reality of how he will feel in the NBA with his thin frame. HUGE potential for Dillingham IMO, can't wait to see him on the court.

TSJ - Had a handful of big games and I love the pace of his game. Will be nice to see a bench lineup with 2 of these three guys (Dilly/TSJ/Miller) and 3 starters, because they will play with pace, they all have scoring touch, and if the defense can hold I see Minnesota's depth really improving sneakily this year. TSJ's quickness and athleticism are NBA level so that's a great foundation.


Other players I don't have lots of notes on:

Nix - destined for 2nd tier play I think, he's a big body and tough baller, but he had to work really hard for buckets in SL, he doesnt' get those looks in the NBA.

Minott - very inconsistent on the court from my POV. He looks locked in, then he doesn't. I like his game overall, but he has a lot to learn defensively. Minott maybe needs another year in the GL to sharpen his skills, but there is an NBA player here.

Edwards / Clark - Same as above. Clark's first SL means he is still figuring out his body after the big injury. He really needs that year in 2nd tier to work it out. Edwards seemed uncoordinated at times, but he has deep-bench potential and has NBA frame to build into. He needs to be more aggressive on the court. I know it is just SL, and players don't want to get hurt, but he looked lazy going for missed shots and averaged 4.4 rebs as a near 7 footer. That's just not gonna cut it. He needs GL too.

[Klomp]

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[Dan's with the Wolves]

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When is the next time we get to see these two in action?

[winforlose]

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When is the next time we get to see these two in action?

Preseason. Unless of course they do pro/am events, but that is how Chet got hurt before the 22/23 season.

[Dan's with the Wolves]

When is the first pre-season game?

[Klomp]

When is the first pre-season game?

I don't believe it's the first one, but the only known preseason game at this point is Oct. 11 against the Sixers, in Des Moines.

[BlacJacMac]

When is the first pre-season game?

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[Klomp]

When is the first pre-season game?

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Only one Target Center game, and I'm guessing it could be a snooze-fest. I highly doubt any of Denver's regulars will play, and ours might not either, less than a week out from the regular season. Those three in the middle will likely be the best opportunities to see the true lineup.