The official fire Chris Finch thread

[Note30]

I am sorry but what are you talking about? The fit, especially defensively is excellent. In 2023/2024 our defense was beyond elite. It was setting or tying records from the beginning of the decade. Offensively we had Jaden not being utilized properly, Karl not being utilized properly, Rudy not being utilized properly, Naz not being utilized properly, ect… The fit wasn’t the problem, the execution was.

Absolute delusion. Jaden is trash offensively so is Rudy there is no utilizing them better. I agree he could have utilized Naz and Karl better but we have limitations when you have offensive liabilities on the floor.

That you think Jaden and Rudy are trash offensively is the delusion. Jaden is 6th all time in Wolves playoff scoring. Jaden averaged 14.7 points on 51.5% shooting including 57.9% from 2 and 38.2% from deep. If you think that those are not great indicators of his offensive potential then what are we even talking about? As for Rudy, you saw him take over games both regular season and playoff. 25/22 is an easy example. Someone said it above, you have to know how to pass to Rudy. That guys are still bouncing passing to him 2 or more years in (3 in most cases,) is down right insane. It is terrible on an institutional level. Schemes help get players to their true potential and our schemes are chaotic at best, non existent at worst.

Can I ask you a serious question? Have you ever played basketball because you hide behind these stats with zero context for them.

We've made the playoffs like 8 times chill lol. That's not the flex you think it is. Jaden can drive in a straight line and hit open shots obviously his percentage is gonna be high moron. Rudys is also high. Jaden is capped. This about as good as he's ever going to be. He has a **** handle and his touch is okay, he'll play well against shorter opponents and if he has the lane he can score. But he can't create his own shot and he definitely isn't changing pace. He's a good 3-D guy, maybe one of the best. But that doesn't mean he's option 2. He shouldn't even be a 3rd option.

As far as Rudy goes dude is unquestionably an offensive liability the one game he took over was because the front court players were all 6'8. Like relax dude. Take over? He just got height mismatches or we played him into the right positions. That doesn't make him a non offensive liability, if **** doesn't go right he's ****. If you have to learn how to work around a players ability to catch the damn ball, he's definitely a liability that's what you do for liabilities you create plans around them.

You also understand that chest passes are the most easily taken away pass in a roll or entry pass and it just takes one guard playing the lane to grab that ****?

Like dude just play even some pick up and I'm sure you'll have a better concept of how the game actually physically works instead of just posting stats like a bot.

[winforlose]

Absolute delusion. Jaden is trash offensively so is Rudy there is no utilizing them better. I agree he could have utilized Naz and Karl better but we have limitations when you have offensive liabilities on the floor.

That you think Jaden and Rudy are trash offensively is the delusion. Jaden is 6th all time in Wolves playoff scoring. Jaden averaged 14.7 points on 51.5% shooting including 57.9% from 2 and 38.2% from deep. If you think that those are not great indicators of his offensive potential then what are we even talking about? As for Rudy, you saw him take over games both regular season and playoff. 25/22 is an easy example. Someone said it above, you have to know how to pass to Rudy. That guys are still bouncing passing to him 2 or more years in (3 in most cases,) is down right insane. It is terrible on an institutional level. Schemes help get players to their true potential and our schemes are chaotic at best, non existent at worst.

Can I ask you a serious question? Have you ever played basketball because you hide behind these stats with zero context for them.

We've made the playoffs like 8 times chill lol. That's not the flex you think it is. Jaden can drive in a straight line and hit open shots obviously his percentage is gonna be high moron. Rudys is also high. Jaden is capped. This about as good as he's ever going to be. He has a **** handle and his touch is okay, he'll play well against shorter opponents and if he has the lane he can score. But he can't create his own shot and he definitely isn't changing pace. He's a good 3-D guy, maybe one of the best. But that doesn't mean he's option 2. He shouldn't even be a 3rd option.

As far as Rudy goes dude is unquestionably an offensive liability the one game he took over was because the front court players were all 6'8. Like relax dude. Take over? He just got height mismatches or we played him into the right positions. That doesn't make him a non offensive liability, if **** doesn't go right he's ****. If you have to learn how to work around a players ability to catch the damn ball, he's definitely a liability that's what you do for liabilities you create plans around them.

You also understand that chest passes are the most easily taken away pass in a roll or entry pass and it just takes one guard playing the lane to grab that ****?

Like dude just play even some pick up and I'm sure you'll have a better concept of how the game actually physically works instead of just posting stats like a bot.

1. I started playing basketball when I was 3. I stopped when I was 27. I played in leagues until I was 17. I had a weekly pick up game and depending on the year would also attend rec center pickup or gym pickup with some of my regular crew. I have played a lot of basketball. I was also the tallest person on my team in most of the years I was in a league. Though I stopped around 6’4 and never had the handle for guard play. So when you tell me I don’t play basketball or understand the mechanics of being tall playing against short opponents, I think that is funny.

2. You cannot have it both ways when it comes to Jaden. Either he is a crap offensive player, or he is someone who can consistently score in the correct opportunities. To say because he has a bad handle he is an offensive zero is… silly. Jaden is a 7’0 SF, of course he is gonna have height advantages, and if you didn’t pay attention, he is really good at shooting over small defenders.

3. 25/22 in a playoff game is dominant. Likewise catching lobs is a great way to punish mismatches. Also you again try to have it both ways. You say Rudy is a zero except against smaller opponents, in which case he can punish the smaller players. That is a matchup advantage for us and an opportunity. The problem is Finch cannot coach the guys to take advantage. How is it that after 3 years so many of them cannot consistently through a damn lob.

You talk down to me but talk out of both sides of your mouth. Your own posts concede that you are wrong, yet you call me a moron. You sir are SAD!

[Note30]

That you think Jaden and Rudy are trash offensively is the delusion. Jaden is 6th all time in Wolves playoff scoring. Jaden averaged 14.7 points on 51.5% shooting including 57.9% from 2 and 38.2% from deep. If you think that those are not great indicators of his offensive potential then what are we even talking about? As for Rudy, you saw him take over games both regular season and playoff. 25/22 is an easy example. Someone said it above, you have to know how to pass to Rudy. That guys are still bouncing passing to him 2 or more years in (3 in most cases,) is down right insane. It is terrible on an institutional level. Schemes help get players to their true potential and our schemes are chaotic at best, non existent at worst.

Can I ask you a serious question? Have you ever played basketball because you hide behind these stats with zero context for them.

We've made the playoffs like 8 times chill lol. That's not the flex you think it is. Jaden can drive in a straight line and hit open shots obviously his percentage is gonna be high moron. Rudys is also high. Jaden is capped. This about as good as he's ever going to be. He has a **** handle and his touch is okay, he'll play well against shorter opponents and if he has the lane he can score. But he can't create his own shot and he definitely isn't changing pace. He's a good 3-D guy, maybe one of the best. But that doesn't mean he's option 2. He shouldn't even be a 3rd option.

As far as Rudy goes dude is unquestionably an offensive liability the one game he took over was because the front court players were all 6'8. Like relax dude. Take over? He just got height mismatches or we played him into the right positions. That doesn't make him a non offensive liability, if **** doesn't go right he's ****. If you have to learn how to work around a players ability to catch the damn ball, he's definitely a liability that's what you do for liabilities you create plans around them.

You also understand that chest passes are the most easily taken away pass in a roll or entry pass and it just takes one guard playing the lane to grab that ****?

Like dude just play even some pick up and I'm sure you'll have a better concept of how the game actually physically works instead of just posting stats like a bot.

1. I started playing basketball when I was 3. I stopped when I was 27. I played in leagues until I was 17. I had a weekly pick up game and depending on the year would also attend rec center pickup or gym pickup with some of my regular crew. I have played a lot of basketball. I was also the tallest person on my team in most of the years I was in a league. Though I stopped around 6’4 and never had the handle for guard play. So when you tell me I don’t play basketball or understand the mechanics of being tall playing against short opponents, I think that is funny.

2. You cannot have it both ways when it comes to Jaden. Either he is a crap offensive player, or he is someone who can consistently score in the correct opportunities. To say because he has a bad handle he is an offensive zero is… silly. Jaden is a 7’0 SF, of course he is gonna have height advantages, and if you didn’t pay attention, he is really good at shooting over small defenders.

3. 25/22 in a playoff game is dominant. Likewise catching lobs is a great way to punish mismatches. Also you again try to have it both ways. You say Rudy is a zero except against smaller opponents, in which case he can punish the smaller players. That is a matchup advantage for us and an opportunity. The problem is Finch cannot coach the guys to take advantage. How is it that after 3 years so many of them cannot consistently through a damn lob.

You talk down to me but talk out of both sides of your mouth. Your own posts concede that you are wrong, yet you call me a moron. You sir are SAD!

1. So you never actually had to facilitate or create your own shot. Adds up.

2. Was Danny Green an amazing offensive player, what about PJ Tucker, what about Gerald Green? He's taller, so he's going to get better looks than those guys but his skill is about the same as them. You're not gonna make those guys your 3rd option.

3.He played against guys way shorter than him. His buckets came from the fact they had zero time protection. It was dominant because he wasn't playing against normal competition. It's why when teams with actual bigs showed up he scored less than 5 points a game. This what I mean, you just hide behind stats and ignore context. Keep burying your head in the sand and screaming that they are good it might eventually work for you.

As for conceding I'm wrong, yeah no **** I'm not going to stick to my guns when another person makes a good point that actually has merit. I know that's hard for you to follow. Based on your writing I'm guessing that's a feeling you wouldnt take pride in.

[winforlose]

Can I ask you a serious question? Have you ever played basketball because you hide behind these stats with zero context for them.

We've made the playoffs like 8 times chill lol. That's not the flex you think it is. Jaden can drive in a straight line and hit open shots obviously his percentage is gonna be high moron. Rudys is also high. Jaden is capped. This about as good as he's ever going to be. He has a **** handle and his touch is okay, he'll play well against shorter opponents and if he has the lane he can score. But he can't create his own shot and he definitely isn't changing pace. He's a good 3-D guy, maybe one of the best. But that doesn't mean he's option 2. He shouldn't even be a 3rd option.

As far as Rudy goes dude is unquestionably an offensive liability the one game he took over was because the front court players were all 6'8. Like relax dude. Take over? He just got height mismatches or we played him into the right positions. That doesn't make him a non offensive liability, if **** doesn't go right he's ****. If you have to learn how to work around a players ability to catch the damn ball, he's definitely a liability that's what you do for liabilities you create plans around them.

You also understand that chest passes are the most easily taken away pass in a roll or entry pass and it just takes one guard playing the lane to grab that ****?

Like dude just play even some pick up and I'm sure you'll have a better concept of how the game actually physically works instead of just posting stats like a bot.

1. I started playing basketball when I was 3. I stopped when I was 27. I played in leagues until I was 17. I had a weekly pick up game and depending on the year would also attend rec center pickup or gym pickup with some of my regular crew. I have played a lot of basketball. I was also the tallest person on my team in most of the years I was in a league. Though I stopped around 6’4 and never had the handle for guard play. So when you tell me I don’t play basketball or understand the mechanics of being tall playing against short opponents, I think that is funny.

2. You cannot have it both ways when it comes to Jaden. Either he is a crap offensive player, or he is someone who can consistently score in the correct opportunities. To say because he has a bad handle he is an offensive zero is… silly. Jaden is a 7’0 SF, of course he is gonna have height advantages, and if you didn’t pay attention, he is really good at shooting over small defenders.

3. 25/22 in a playoff game is dominant. Likewise catching lobs is a great way to punish mismatches. Also you again try to have it both ways. You say Rudy is a zero except against smaller opponents, in which case he can punish the smaller players. That is a matchup advantage for us and an opportunity. The problem is Finch cannot coach the guys to take advantage. How is it that after 3 years so many of them cannot consistently through a damn lob.

You talk down to me but talk out of both sides of your mouth. Your own posts concede that you are wrong, yet you call me a moron. You sir are SAD!

1. So you never actually had to facilitate or create your own shot. Adds up.

2. Was Danny Green an amazing offensive player, what about PJ Tucker, what about Gerald Green? He's taller, so he's going to get better looks than those guys but his skill is about the same as them. You're not gonna make those guys your 3rd option.

3.He played against guys way shorter than him. His buckets came from the fact they had zero time protection. It was dominant because he wasn't playing against normal competition. It's why when teams with actual bigs showed up he scored less than 5 points a game. This what I mean, you just hide behind stats and ignore context. Keep burying your head in the sand and screaming that they are good it might eventually work for you.

As for conceding I'm wrong, yeah no **** I'm not going to stick to my guns when another person makes a good point that actually has merit. I know that's hard for you to follow. Based on your writing I'm guessing that's a feeling you wouldnt take pride in.

Gonna use your own words to show how full of trash you are “ Absolute delusion. Jaden is trash offensively so is Rudy there is no utilizing them better. I agree he could have utilized Naz and Karl better but we have limitations when you have offensive liabilities on the floor.”

On the one hand you say that Jaden and Rudy are capable of excelling when in the proper situation. On the other hand you say they are trash that cannot be utilized. You stick to your guns while literally talking out of both sides of your mouth. Josh Okogie is an example of a trash offensive player. Guys who score 10+ points a game on efficient shooting are not. Guys who hit 55%+ of their FGs are obviously capable of being well utilized offensively. You are the one talking about third options. That said, Jaden is a poor creator, but he is more than capable of getting his own bucket when the gravity of the defense is shifted to Ant. Rudy is not capable of getting his own bucket, but is a prolific PNR big who you personally admitted feasts against small ball. I will admit I am wrong when you make a legitimate point that actually proves me wrong.

P.S. Being a big doesn’t make a player trash at offense. I was a 40%+ 3 point shooter after spending a ton of time in my drive way practicing (hours a day.) I was also quick hands and quick feet and a great defender. My issues were cardio and handle. That I could not play PG or SG does not diminish that I could both defend them in the half court and score over them.

[Note30]

1. I started playing basketball when I was 3. I stopped when I was 27. I played in leagues until I was 17. I had a weekly pick up game and depending on the year would also attend rec center pickup or gym pickup with some of my regular crew. I have played a lot of basketball. I was also the tallest person on my team in most of the years I was in a league. Though I stopped around 6’4 and never had the handle for guard play. So when you tell me I don’t play basketball or understand the mechanics of being tall playing against short opponents, I think that is funny.

2. You cannot have it both ways when it comes to Jaden. Either he is a crap offensive player, or he is someone who can consistently score in the correct opportunities. To say because he has a bad handle he is an offensive zero is… silly. Jaden is a 7’0 SF, of course he is gonna have height advantages, and if you didn’t pay attention, he is really good at shooting over small defenders.

3. 25/22 in a playoff game is dominant. Likewise catching lobs is a great way to punish mismatches. Also you again try to have it both ways. You say Rudy is a zero except against smaller opponents, in which case he can punish the smaller players. That is a matchup advantage for us and an opportunity. The problem is Finch cannot coach the guys to take advantage. How is it that after 3 years so many of them cannot consistently through a damn lob.

You talk down to me but talk out of both sides of your mouth. Your own posts concede that you are wrong, yet you call me a moron. You sir are SAD!

1. So you never actually had to facilitate or create your own shot. Adds up.

2. Was Danny Green an amazing offensive player, what about PJ Tucker, what about Gerald Green? He's taller, so he's going to get better looks than those guys but his skill is about the same as them. You're not gonna make those guys your 3rd option.

3.He played against guys way shorter than him. His buckets came from the fact they had zero time protection. It was dominant because he wasn't playing against normal competition. It's why when teams with actual bigs showed up he scored less than 5 points a game. This what I mean, you just hide behind stats and ignore context. Keep burying your head in the sand and screaming that they are good it might eventually work for you.

As for conceding I'm wrong, yeah no **** I'm not going to stick to my guns when another person makes a good point that actually has merit. I know that's hard for you to follow. Based on your writing I'm guessing that's a feeling you wouldnt take pride in.

Gonna use your own words to show how full of trash you are “ Absolute delusion. Jaden is trash offensively so is Rudy there is no utilizing them better. I agree he could have utilized Naz and Karl better but we have limitations when you have offensive liabilities on the floor.”

On the one hand you say that Jaden and Rudy are capable of excelling when in the proper situation. On the other hand you say they are trash that cannot be utilized. You stick to your guns while literally talking out of both sides of your mouth. Josh Okogie is an example of a trash offensive player. Guys who score 10+ points a game on efficient shooting are not. Guys who hit 55%+ of their FGs are obviously capable of being well utilized offensively. You are the one talking about third options. That said, Jaden is a poor creator, but he is more than capable of getting his own bucket when the gravity of the defense is shifted to Ant. Rudy is not capable of getting his own bucket, but is a prolific PNR big who you personally admitted feasts against small ball. I will admit I am wrong when you make a legitimate point that actually proves me wrong.

P.S. Being a big doesn’t make a player trash at offense. I was a 40%+ 3 point shooter after spending a ton of time in my drive way practicing (hours a day.) I was also quick hands and quick feet and a great defender. My issues were cardio and handle. That I could not play PG or SG does not diminish that I could both defend them in the half court and score over them.

Your jumps in logic astound me. I didn't say you were trash I said you couldn't facilitate an offense and probably don't create your own shot often. The fact that you can't understand this explains why you are not getting my argument at all.

[winforlose]

1. So you never actually had to facilitate or create your own shot. Adds up.

2. Was Danny Green an amazing offensive player, what about PJ Tucker, what about Gerald Green? He's taller, so he's going to get better looks than those guys but his skill is about the same as them. You're not gonna make those guys your 3rd option.

3.He played against guys way shorter than him. His buckets came from the fact they had zero time protection. It was dominant because he wasn't playing against normal competition. It's why when teams with actual bigs showed up he scored less than 5 points a game. This what I mean, you just hide behind stats and ignore context. Keep burying your head in the sand and screaming that they are good it might eventually work for you.

As for conceding I'm wrong, yeah no **** I'm not going to stick to my guns when another person makes a good point that actually has merit. I know that's hard for you to follow. Based on your writing I'm guessing that's a feeling you wouldnt take pride in.

Gonna use your own words to show how full of trash you are “ Absolute delusion. Jaden is trash offensively so is Rudy there is no utilizing them better. I agree he could have utilized Naz and Karl better but we have limitations when you have offensive liabilities on the floor.”

On the one hand you say that Jaden and Rudy are capable of excelling when in the proper situation. On the other hand you say they are trash that cannot be utilized. You stick to your guns while literally talking out of both sides of your mouth. Josh Okogie is an example of a trash offensive player. Guys who score 10+ points a game on efficient shooting are not. Guys who hit 55%+ of their FGs are obviously capable of being well utilized offensively. You are the one talking about third options. That said, Jaden is a poor creator, but he is more than capable of getting his own bucket when the gravity of the defense is shifted to Ant. Rudy is not capable of getting his own bucket, but is a prolific PNR big who you personally admitted feasts against small ball. I will admit I am wrong when you make a legitimate point that actually proves me wrong.

P.S. Being a big doesn’t make a player trash at offense. I was a 40%+ 3 point shooter after spending a ton of time in my drive way practicing (hours a day.) I was also quick hands and quick feet and a great defender. My issues were cardio and handle. That I could not play PG or SG does not diminish that I could both defend them in the half court and score over them.

Your jumps in logic astound me. I didn't say you were trash I said you couldn't facilitate an offense and probably don't create your own shot often. The fact that you can't understand this explains why you are not getting my argument at all.

Your problem is you made a stupid statement. Rather than backtrack on that statement, you tripled down. I never said you called me trash. I said “ Being a big doesn’t make a player trash at offense.” Your earlier point implied that unless you can shot create you are trash. If Jaden is trash then I am many levels below that, because that dude can shoot and handle NBA level defenders, I got youth league and rec center defense.

The point you were trying to make (albeit badly,) is that the Wolves put too much pressure on their guards to create for their front court, especially in 23/24. The problem with this argument is Ant is gonna face massive pressure no matter who is playing with him, because he is that top level talent. That is why prime KD thrived playing Robin to Curry’s Batman. That said, Kerr knew how to take advantage and Finch doesn’t. Jaden and Rudy don’t need to be able to create. They need to know how to screen and then get to their spots. They need to know how to bail out and offensive rebound for easy put backs. They need to know how to maximize their offensive opportunities (yes created by others,) and that is where Finch fails them. Rudy is an amazing screen assister, and Jaden is an excellent mid range and at the rim shooter. That they do not shoot enough is on their coach and their scheme.

[frankenwolf]

Well, hasn't this been pleasant. . .

Do not fire Finch.
Do not get rid of Conley.
Build some continuity here and keep winning. Are there tweaks to be made? Absolutely! The two teams in the finals show you what can happen when everyone works together and buys into the coaches philosophy. I'm sure that this is not the best iteration of the Wolves that TC and company picture. Let it happen.

GO WOLVES!!!

[winforlose]

Well, hasn't this been pleasant. . .

Do not fire Finch.
Do not get rid of Conley.
Build some continuity here and keep winning. Are there tweaks to be made? Absolutely! The two teams in the finals show you what can happen when everyone works together and buys into the coaches philosophy. I'm sure that this is not the best iteration of the Wolves that TC and company picture. Let it happen.

GO WOLVES!!!

I am not gonna with you. I will say that we didn’t exactly play our best basketball in 90% of the playoff games. We looked downright bad in several wins (relative to our standard,) and it is concerning that we were not able to consistently play our best ball.

[Worm Guts]

The Nuggets series had most games decided by 20 points or more. We traded blowout wins and losses until game 7 where we fell down by more than 20 points. I am struggling to understand how that kind of inconsistency screams amazing coaching?

I mean if the Wolves were inconsistent, by default so were the Nuggets. And the Nuggets were the defending champs with the best player in the league. A coach with a championship blew a 20 point 2nd half lead in a game 7 against the Wolves and Chris Finch. So what does that indicate?

[winforlose]

The Nuggets series had most games decided by 20 points or more. We traded blowout wins and losses until game 7 where we fell down by more than 20 points. I am struggling to understand how that kind of inconsistency screams amazing coaching?

I mean if the Wolves were inconsistent, by default so were the Nuggets. And the Nuggets were the defending champs with the best player in the league. A coach with a championship blew a 20 point 2nd half lead in a game 7 against the Wolves and Chris Finch. So what does that indicate?

Among other things that Mike Malone failed against the Wolves, much like he failed in 2024 in defensive planning (having a bottom 3rd defense for much of the year.) We matched up well against Denver, but Malone could not consistently figure out the Wolves. Jaden played a big wildcard in that series as well. If Malone was fired for his failures, as was Jenkins, Thibs, and more, then maybe Finch should be too? Our problem is that Ant loves Finch mostly because Ant can openly ignore Finch and play whatever style he wants. As a result we don’t want to fire Finch, even if that means we will never win a title until we do.

[Worm Guts]

The Nuggets series had most games decided by 20 points or more. We traded blowout wins and losses until game 7 where we fell down by more than 20 points. I am struggling to understand how that kind of inconsistency screams amazing coaching?

I mean if the Wolves were inconsistent, by default so were the Nuggets. And the Nuggets were the defending champs with the best player in the league. A coach with a championship blew a 20 point 2nd half lead in a game 7 against the Wolves and Chris Finch. So what does that indicate?

Among other things that Mike Malone failed against the Wolves, much like he failed in 2024 in defensive planning (having a bottom 3rd defense for much of the year.) We matched up well against Denver, but Malone could not consistently figure out the Wolves. Jaden played a big wildcard in that series as well. If Malone was fired for his failures, as was Jenkins, Thibs, and more, then maybe Finch should be too? Our problem is that Ant loves Finch mostly because Ant can openly ignore Finch and play whatever style he wants. As a result we don’t want to fire Finch, even if that means we will never win a title until we do.

Just because Malone, Jenkins and Thibs were fired, doesn't mean they should have been.

Mike Malone was a coach that won championship. So what does that say? We're talking top level competition, nobody wins every single time. Maybe you get lucky and get a HOF type coach who puts you in the right position 90% of time, but those guys are hard to find, and they still even mess up at times. If the only thing you're looking for is mistakes, you're going to find them.

[winforlose]

I mean if the Wolves were inconsistent, by default so were the Nuggets. And the Nuggets were the defending champs with the best player in the league. A coach with a championship blew a 20 point 2nd half lead in a game 7 against the Wolves and Chris Finch. So what does that indicate?

Among other things that Mike Malone failed against the Wolves, much like he failed in 2024 in defensive planning (having a bottom 3rd defense for much of the year.) We matched up well against Denver, but Malone could not consistently figure out the Wolves. Jaden played a big wildcard in that series as well. If Malone was fired for his failures, as was Jenkins, Thibs, and more, then maybe Finch should be too? Our problem is that Ant loves Finch mostly because Ant can openly ignore Finch and play whatever style he wants. As a result we don’t want to fire Finch, even if that means we will never win a title until we do.

Just because Malone, Jenkins and Thibs were fired, doesn't mean they should have been.

Mike Malone was a coach that won championship. So what does that say? We're talking top level competition, nobody wins every single time. Maybe you get lucky and get a HOF type coach who puts you in the right position 90% of time, but those guys are hard to find, and they still even mess up at times. If the only thing you're looking for is mistakes, you're going to find them.

This is true. Giannis won a chip, was not able to repeat, his coach was changed. Joker same thing. Being super talented can cover up a lot of wrinkles, but the stars have to align. My problem is we are super talented but not able to play to our potential. Denver even with a bad defense, shallow bench, and injuries plaguing them most of the year had a better record than us. Memphis should have. I am not asking for perfection, but I watched this season and this playoffs and I did not see a successful, cohesive, unified team playing its best ball and coming up short. I saw a group of guys who were upset about their minutes, struggled with their roles, and could not consistently bring their A games.

[frankenwolf]

Among other things that Mike Malone failed against the Wolves, much like he failed in 2024 in defensive planning (having a bottom 3rd defense for much of the year.) We matched up well against Denver, but Malone could not consistently figure out the Wolves. Jaden played a big wildcard in that series as well. If Malone was fired for his failures, as was Jenkins, Thibs, and more, then maybe Finch should be too? Our problem is that Ant loves Finch mostly because Ant can openly ignore Finch and play whatever style he wants. As a result we don’t want to fire Finch, even if that means we will never win a title until we do.

Just because Malone, Jenkins and Thibs were fired, doesn't mean they should have been.

Mike Malone was a coach that won championship. So what does that say? We're talking top level competition, nobody wins every single time. Maybe you get lucky and get a HOF type coach who puts you in the right position 90% of time, but those guys are hard to find, and they still even mess up at times. If the only thing you're looking for is mistakes, you're going to find them.

This is true. Giannis won a chip, was not able to repeat, his coach was changed. Joker same thing. Being super talented can cover up a lot of wrinkles, but the stars have to align. My problem is we are super talented but not able to play to our potential. Denver even with a bad defense, shallow bench, and injuries plaguing them most of the year had a better record than us. Memphis should have. I am not asking for perfection, but I watched this season and this playoffs and I did not see a successful, cohesive, unified team playing its best ball and coming up short. I saw a group of guys who were upset about their minutes, struggled with their roles, and could not consistently bring their A games.

I saw a team that going into the preseason saw it's 2nd best player leave the day before training camp and a coach who tried to integrate two new players into his rotation after having to scrap his summer lineup. Trying to get these guys to integrate on the fly is not easy and a lot of the first part of the season was spent with everyone trying to figure out what they were doing. I think if you kept this team intact, they would look better next year than they did this year. I don't see it happening, but time will tell.

[winforlose]

Just because Malone, Jenkins and Thibs were fired, doesn't mean they should have been.

Mike Malone was a coach that won championship. So what does that say? We're talking top level competition, nobody wins every single time. Maybe you get lucky and get a HOF type coach who puts you in the right position 90% of time, but those guys are hard to find, and they still even mess up at times. If the only thing you're looking for is mistakes, you're going to find them.

This is true. Giannis won a chip, was not able to repeat, his coach was changed. Joker same thing. Being super talented can cover up a lot of wrinkles, but the stars have to align. My problem is we are super talented but not able to play to our potential. Denver even with a bad defense, shallow bench, and injuries plaguing them most of the year had a better record than us. Memphis should have. I am not asking for perfection, but I watched this season and this playoffs and I did not see a successful, cohesive, unified team playing its best ball and coming up short. I saw a group of guys who were upset about their minutes, struggled with their roles, and could not consistently bring their A games.

I saw a team that going into the preseason saw it's 2nd best player leave the day before training camp and a coach who tried to integrate two new players into his rotation after having to scrap his summer lineup. Trying to get these guys to integrate on the fly is not easy and a lot of the first part of the season was spent with everyone trying to figure out what they were doing. I think if you kept this team intact, they would look better next year than they did this year. I don't see it happening, but time will tell.

Maybe, but the playoffs deeply concerned me. I said all along we would be in the WCF if we avoided OKC and that more likely than not we would lose to OKC in the WCF. I see the potential of our team, but I also fear our lack of scheme work and zone defense is too big an obstacle to overcome against an equally talented team.

[frankenwolf]

Maybe, but the playoffs deeply concerned me. I said all along we would be in the WCF if we avoided OKC and that more likely than not we would lose to OKC in the WCF. I see the potential of our team, but I also fear our lack of scheme work and zone defense is too big an obstacle to overcome against an equally talented team.

I would hope that Finch would work on a zone defense to defeat OKC or that TC would get some more defenders to throw at SGA as Indiana did last game. I also think that OKC doesn't have a big window with this current team because there are a number of players who are going to want to get paid, so maybe the Wolves only have to worry about OKC for a couple of years. Of course, then they might have to worry about Wemby & the Spurs.

[Note30]

Gonna use your own words to show how full of trash you are “ Absolute delusion. Jaden is trash offensively so is Rudy there is no utilizing them better. I agree he could have utilized Naz and Karl better but we have limitations when you have offensive liabilities on the floor.”

On the one hand you say that Jaden and Rudy are capable of excelling when in the proper situation. On the other hand you say they are trash that cannot be utilized. You stick to your guns while literally talking out of both sides of your mouth. Josh Okogie is an example of a trash offensive player. Guys who score 10+ points a game on efficient shooting are not. Guys who hit 55%+ of their FGs are obviously capable of being well utilized offensively. You are the one talking about third options. That said, Jaden is a poor creator, but he is more than capable of getting his own bucket when the gravity of the defense is shifted to Ant. Rudy is not capable of getting his own bucket, but is a prolific PNR big who you personally admitted feasts against small ball. I will admit I am wrong when you make a legitimate point that actually proves me wrong.

P.S. Being a big doesn’t make a player trash at offense. I was a 40%+ 3 point shooter after spending a ton of time in my drive way practicing (hours a day.) I was also quick hands and quick feet and a great defender. My issues were cardio and handle. That I could not play PG or SG does not diminish that I could both defend them in the half court and score over them.

Your jumps in logic astound me. I didn't say you were trash I said you couldn't facilitate an offense and probably don't create your own shot often. The fact that you can't understand this explains why you are not getting my argument at all.

Your problem is you made a stupid statement. Rather than backtrack on that statement, you tripled down. I never said you called me trash. I said “ Being a big doesn’t make a player trash at offense.” Your earlier point implied that unless you can shot create you are trash. If Jaden is trash then I am many levels below that, because that dude can shoot and handle NBA level defenders, I got youth league and rec center defense.

The point you were trying to make (albeit badly,) is that the Wolves put too much pressure on their guards to create for their front court, especially in 23/24. The problem with this argument is Ant is gonna face massive pressure no matter who is playing with him, because he is that top level talent. That is why prime KD thrived playing Robin to Curry’s Batman. That said, Kerr knew how to take advantage and Finch doesn’t. Jaden and Rudy don’t need to be able to create. They need to know how to screen and then get to their spots. They need to know how to bail out and offensive rebound for easy put backs. They need to know how to maximize their offensive opportunities (yes created by others,) and that is where Finch fails them. Rudy is an amazing screen assister, and Jaden is an excellent mid range and at the rim shooter. That they do not shoot enough is on their coach and their scheme.

You're kind of on your own planet.

The warriors talent level and ours is a million years apart. Every single rotation player on that warriors team save Looney (or w.e. center that played 15 minutes a game could handle the ball, create, their own shot at an almost elite level. Every single one of them could play ok to amazing defense. Our players do not have that. On our team we have maybe and I mean maybe 3 guys who I'd trust to even handle the ball in the majority of possessions.

You can't optimize the offense in our system where you're relying on so many deficits. People talk about Jaden like he's our way through this mess. He can not handle the ball. And that's fine. If he was the 4 on a team with a few more than capable guards, say like the Thunder I'm sure he'd put up like 15 or 16 a game. But it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't fit here and his offense is garbage (relatively) and definitely not what we need here. He's a 3-D player. He's a really really good 3-D at least when in his spots player.

But no matter what you do the offense has still got to be able to move the ball and get it to him in his corner spots. Because he's definitely not gonna get his current points without that.

He can take one dribble and pull up he's not gonna do that to every opponent and get to his spot, so how are you going to get it to him when you only have two guys who can.

You're expecting Finch to make magic happen but you can't address the fact that we have two guys who were facilitating the offense almost all season in Ant and Randle and neither of them are particularly good at it.

So how do you get them to their spots? Seriously I want you to actually articulate it instead of just throwing out BS stats that don't explain anything.

Because you keep saying Finch can't do it, so what's missing?

[Note30]

Maybe, but the playoffs deeply concerned me. I said all along we would be in the WCF if we avoided OKC and that more likely than not we would lose to OKC in the WCF. I see the potential of our team, but I also fear our lack of scheme work and zone defense is too big an obstacle to overcome against an equally talented team.

I would hope that Finch would work on a zone defense to defeat OKC or that TC would get some more defenders to throw at SGA as Indiana did last game. I also think that OKC doesn't have a big window with this current team because there are a number of players who are going to want to get paid, so maybe the Wolves only have to worry about OKC for a couple of years. Of course, then they might have to worry about Wemby & the Spurs.

Zone doesn't work against teams with multiple catch and shoot options. You just drop it inside to any big probably either Holmgren or use JDub as the *big* and then just break it from there when it collapses.

[shrink]

I would also note last year that he solved the mid-range Suns, and solved the Jokic-champ Nuggets.

Did he though? The Suns were swept with a significant defensive effort and significant offensive effort from playoff mode Karl, Jaden, Ant, ect… The Nuggets series had most games decided by 20 points or more. We traded blowout wins and losses until game 7 where we fell down by more than 20 points. I am struggling to understand how that kind of inconsistency screams amazing coaching?

He made the decision to have KAT defend Kevin Durant, which was a shocker, then put him on Jokic to allow Gobert to stay underneath on Aaron Gordon.

It feels like you try to only see the negative, to force the evidence to fit your opinions. We were big underdogs against the defending champ Nuggets. Big wins and big losses still had big wins, and an upset victory.

Sorry the upset victory over the champs wasn’t “consistent” enough for you.

[mondry]

I am sorry but what are you talking about? The fit, especially defensively is excellent. In 2023/2024 our defense was beyond elite. It was setting or tying records from the beginning of the decade. Offensively we had Jaden not being utilized properly, Karl not being utilized properly, Rudy not being utilized properly, Naz not being utilized properly, ect… The fit wasn’t the problem, the execution was.

Absolute delusion. Jaden is trash offensively so is Rudy there is no utilizing them better. I agree he could have utilized Naz and Karl better but we have limitations when you have offensive liabilities on the floor.

That you think Jaden and Rudy are trash offensively is the delusion. Jaden is 6th all time in Wolves playoff scoring. Jaden averaged 14.7 points on 51.5% shooting including 57.9% from 2 and 38.2% from deep. If you think that those are not great indicators of his offensive potential then what are we even talking about? As for Rudy, you saw him take over games both regular season and playoff. 25/22 is an easy example. Someone said it above, you have to know how to pass to Rudy. That guys are still bouncing passing to him 2 or more years in (3 in most cases,) is down right insane. It is terrible on an institutional level. Schemes help get players to their true potential and our schemes are chaotic at best, non existent at worst.

Yep... Because our awesome coach "utilizes" Jaden, who's a mediocre corner 3 point shooter by having him stand in the corner to shoot 3's.... Well what happened when Randle was out and we were forced to actually... you know... get Jaden involved? He became a MONSTER, like literally Kawhi Leonard esque.

Fast forward to game 5 with elimination on the line what is our game plan? Ant drives into 4 guys, kick it to Jaden in the corner, he clangs the open 3's cause OKC is coached to let him take that shot and stop ANT like any good coach would do. Finch unwilling to make any adjustments, we lose by 30 with the season on the line lol.

The regular season showed why Clark, Shannon, and Dilly were the X-factor against OKC. You have to push the pace and meet effort with effort. Energy with energy. The Pacers are doing EXACTLY what we should have done with those guys. It's why we blew them out in game 3 with Shannon playing a major role (After not sniffing the court) and why NAW had that huge game 4. But of course our genius coach has to put all our big, slow footed, turnover prone guys out there out of "loyalty". It was obvious as hell that Randle, Nas, and Gobert were not going to work in the half court against a smothering OKC defense.

And don't even get me started on Rudy. We are the only team in the league who can't figure out how to throw a lob to him with a guy like Jimmy Butler or smaller on him with 4 other guys selling out on ANT. Any other team Rudy would get 10 dunks a game with how teams are defending him but of course Finch doesn't even try to get him involved. I kind of hope he gets traded to LA and averages 20 points a night with Luka lol. Just mind boggling how bad our offense is and no pick n roll or anything.

I think the big reason people are fooled is because Finch, to his credit, did a good job with the situation of bringing in new players and managing ego's and stuff. He is great at the "managing" players side of things but he leaves a lot to be desired on the basketball side of things, the X's and O's. It's why we are so inconsistent from game to game, a trademark of his tenure here. We are relying on the players talent so when they have an off night or things aren't going well we just lose.

[winforlose]

Your jumps in logic astound me. I didn't say you were trash I said you couldn't facilitate an offense and probably don't create your own shot often. The fact that you can't understand this explains why you are not getting my argument at all.

Your problem is you made a stupid statement. Rather than backtrack on that statement, you tripled down. I never said you called me trash. I said “ Being a big doesn’t make a player trash at offense.” Your earlier point implied that unless you can shot create you are trash. If Jaden is trash then I am many levels below that, because that dude can shoot and handle NBA level defenders, I got youth league and rec center defense.

The point you were trying to make (albeit badly,) is that the Wolves put too much pressure on their guards to create for their front court, especially in 23/24. The problem with this argument is Ant is gonna face massive pressure no matter who is playing with him, because he is that top level talent. That is why prime KD thrived playing Robin to Curry’s Batman. That said, Kerr knew how to take advantage and Finch doesn’t. Jaden and Rudy don’t need to be able to create. They need to know how to screen and then get to their spots. They need to know how to bail out and offensive rebound for easy put backs. They need to know how to maximize their offensive opportunities (yes created by others,) and that is where Finch fails them. Rudy is an amazing screen assister, and Jaden is an excellent mid range and at the rim shooter. That they do not shoot enough is on their coach and their scheme.

You're kind of on your own planet.

The warriors talent level and ours is a million years apart. Every single rotation player on that warriors team save Looney (or w.e. center that played 15 minutes a game could handle the ball, create, their own shot at an almost elite level. Every single one of them could play ok to amazing defense. Our players do not have that. On our team we have maybe and I mean maybe 3 guys who I'd trust to even handle the ball in the majority of possessions.

You can't optimize the offense in our system where you're relying on so many deficits. People talk about Jaden like he's our way through this mess. He can not handle the ball. And that's fine. If he was the 4 on a team with a few more than capable guards, say like the Thunder I'm sure he'd put up like 15 or 16 a game. But it doesn't change the fact that he doesn't fit here and his offense is garbage (relatively) and definitely not what we need here. He's a 3-D player. He's a really really good 3-D at least when in his spots player.

But no matter what you do the offense has still got to be able to move the ball and get it to him in his corner spots. Because he's definitely not gonna get his current points without that.

He can take one dribble and pull up he's not gonna do that to every opponent and get to his spot, so how are you going to get it to him when you only have two guys who can.

You're expecting Finch to make magic happen but you can't address the fact that we have two guys who were facilitating the offense almost all season in Ant and Randle and neither of them are particularly good at it.

So how do you get them to their spots? Seriously I want you to actually articulate it instead of just throwing out BS stats that don't explain anything.

Because you keep saying Finch can't do it, so what's missing?

If this were even close to true then losing Steph shouldn’t have mattered that much. After all every player on the Warriors is better than most of our players right? Gonna quote you “ Every single rotation player on that warriors team save Looney (or w.e. center that played 15 minutes a game could handle the ball, create, their own shot at an almost elite level. Every single one of them could play ok to amazing defense. Our players do not have that. On our team we have maybe and I mean maybe 3 guys who I'd trust to even handle the ball in the majority of possessions.” You literally only assign offensive value to ball skills. This is legitimately one of the worst perspectives (not just takes, but fundamentally foundationally flawed understandings) of the game I have ever encountered. I don’t think I can have a rational conversation with someone who keeps getting less and less consistent with their own takes. First you tell me Rudy is trash, then you tell me the exception is when he is against smaller opponents. Then you tell me that all these smaller players who cannot defend him are significantly better than him despite the size disadvantage. You are not only not rationally responding to me, you are not able to consistent within your own understanding of the situation.

The existence of pick and roll proves that not every big man needs to have a handle or be a shot creator. Most teams play a non shooter non creator at any given time. Jaden as a mid range and at the basket shot maker, (who can at least hit the 3 some of the time,) is not an offensive liability. The defense either needs to account for Jaden or get burned by Jaden (something we saw time and again during the injuries and playoffs.) It is a failure of coaching that leads Jaden’s shot count and offensive opportunities in the single digits as often as they are. Randle, DDV, NAW, NAZ, Mike, and Ant all have the ball skills and abilities you are demanding. In an 8 man rotation that is 6 out of 8. There are lineups without Jaden or Rudy with 5 of them on the floor at the same time. What you are really upset about is the lack of offensive structure that allows defenses to load up on the ball while guys stand around and watch. That is poor coaching. You don’t even seem to understand enough to know the difference.