Operation Beast: Prospect Thread II

[mnWI]

The funny thing is, for all the media and draft site concerns over Whiteside's character, his college coach Donnie Jones says a lot of positive things about him and Hakeem Olajuwon trained him for several weeks and has told the Rockets to take him if he's there. Same goes for his other trainer Bob Hill, who says he can be Marcus Camby in his sleep. His high school coach also strongly recommends him.

Is that predecessor to Popovich Bob Hill?

Interesting stuff. I'm guessing that there wouldn't have been much talk on the board about Whiteside's character if not for Twitter. Otherwise something like showing up for the combine in flip flops would be seen as quirky rather than a character flaw. For a guy like Whiteside who I don't think had any of his game broadcast on a channel outside the 700's by Comcast, opinions from someone like Givony tend to take on more meaning than they should.

Yeah, former Spurs/Sonics/Pacers Coach Bob Hill, who know does private training with several big men (he did Blake Griffin before the draft last year), as well as acting as the big man consultant for the D-League.

"I've worked with a lot of quality big men in my career so my frame of reference for post players is pretty good," said Hill, who worked with Whiteside for five weeks. "From a talent standpoint he is head and shoulders above most people. There's nothing he can't do and that's a big statement to make.

"One day he missed a block with his right hand and blocked it with his left hand, which I've never seen before. His talent is special. But he's like these other young guys that are coming out of college after one year - when their maturity level meets their talent, they are going to be special."

How special? Well, Hill was quick to squelch the Marcus Camby comparisons.

"He's Kevin Garnett, not Marcus Camby," Hill said. "He can be Camby in his sleep. But when I say all this it's important that he understands he needs to mature. A lot of these guys are mature and they are waiting for their skill level to grow; it's the opposite with Hassan. He's very, very skilled. He just has to figure it all out. That's all on him. Once he does, off he'll go."

http://www.dailymail.com/Sports/MUSport ... uild=cache

[shangrila]

That's high praise but it sounds a lot like what they were saying with Austin Daye last year.

[Krapinsky]

New Paul George highlight tape. I still maintain that he's higher on my board than Wes Johnson. I'd like to get them both though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=8Zo-o49 ... re=related

[Krapinsky]

Krap's Big Board

1. Wall
2. Turner
3. Favors
4. Cousins
5. George
6. Johnson
7. Aminu
8. Whiteside
9. Monroe
10. Davis
11. Babbit
12. Henry
13. Patterson
14. Aldrich
15. Udoh
16. Hayward
17. Jones
18. Williams
19. Anderson
20. Pondexter
21. James
22. Orton
23. Sanders
24. Seraphin
25. Bradley
26. Crawford
27. Torrance
28. Warren
29. Robinson
30. Pittman

[moss_is_1]

New Paul George highlight tape. I still maintain that he's higher on my board than Wes Johnson. I'd like to get them both though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=8Zo-o49 ... re=related

I'd rather have George too, Johnson is probably the better player right now but my reasoning for wanting George more is..
1.Younger
2.Just as athletic, very similar overall(Shooting, questionable handle, great athletes, questions about defense, frame)
3.Won't cost us as much(George will be picked around 10 or lower, Johnson 4-5-6-7)
4.Star potential.

[the_bruce]

Whiteside @ 16 is a no brainer. I've mentioned several times on this board that I think he's one of the few players that I think has superstar potential in this draft class. He's to sick with his athletic ability and length.

[Esohny]

Whiteside @ 16 is a no brainer. I've mentioned several times on this board that I think he's one of the few players that I think has superstar potential in this draft class. He's to sick with his athletic ability and length.

Ryan Hollins has great athletic ability and length.

[mnWI]

Whiteside @ 16 is a no brainer. I've mentioned several times on this board that I think he's one of the few players that I think has superstar potential in this draft class. He's to sick with his athletic ability and length.

Ryan Hollins has great athletic ability and length.

Ryan Hollins blocked less than 1 shot a game as a senior in college. Whiteside blocked 5.3 as a freshman.

[Krapinsky]

Whiteside @ 16 is a no brainer. I've mentioned several times on this board that I think he's one of the few players that I think has superstar potential in this draft class. He's to sick with his athletic ability and length.

Ryan Hollins has great athletic ability and length.

Ryan Hollins blocked less than 1 shot a game as a senior in college. Whiteside blocked 5.3 as a freshman.

How high do you think he goes? Could he go as early as 5 (Sac invited him back for a 2nd workout)?

Is he in the discussion at 4?

[mnWI]

Ryan Hollins has great athletic ability and length.

Ryan Hollins blocked less than 1 shot a game as a senior in college. Whiteside blocked 5.3 as a freshman.

How high do you think he goes? Could he go as early as 5 (Sac invited him back for a 2nd workout)?

Is he in the discussion at 4?

He's not in the discussion at 4. He had great workouts with Sacramento and Indiana, and was so-so in Utah, Clippers, and Golden State workouts. Good but not great in Toronto. His follow-up workout with the Kings will be a huge deal, but I spent an hour telling him how to guard Monroe, a guy who goes left more than 70% of the time. His range right now is huge. The Kings could fall in love with him at 5, or he could drop down into the late teens or 20s. Too hard to get a read on it at this point.

[younggunsmn]

Video of the Sacto Cousins/Favors workout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBSK0hLM ... r_embedded

My impression:
Both players have nice jumpers, but kind of a slow release.
Cousins really struggled with those alley-oops and I really question his
jumping ability and lateral quickness.
Favors has great athleticism. I can see why Kahn thinks he'd be a great fit with Rubio.
I think Favors is going to block a lot more shots in this league than Cousins.

I really question Cousins' fit next to Al or Love. Other than added length and a mean streak he reminds me a lot of Jefferson in his limitations. He's a great space eater, but I question if he has the lateral quickness and anticipation to ever become a true defensive force once he starts playing against guys his own size night in and night out. If you are starting a team from scratch he will be a nice piece to have, but trying to pair him with Love/Jefferson, I don't know if that's the makings of a defensive pairing that can win playoff games. Do you trade both Al and Love off and start from scratch with Cousins or trade Love for Randolph?

I would trade Love + 16 and take on a small contract for Favors (and that is probably the most we can offer them without involving Rubio or 4). But NJ is stupid if they do that, they know what they have in Favors. Love or Al + 4 is way too much in my opinion to move up one spot, and I really would rather just draft Johnson outright than give up any sort of asset to move up one spot, at least johnson fits a need. If Kahn kan trade for 3 outright without involving 4 or Rubio I will be extremely impressed with him.

I think Kahn has lost any trade down leverage he has involving teams wanting cousins due to the workout thing. Sacto is rumored to be pretty smitten with Monroe anyway according to Givony's latest podcast.
5/nocioni for 7/prince is looking like a more and more likely scenario to me if we pass on Cousins.
It would suck pretty hard to pick Cousins on draft night and not be able to deal for Johnson, or deal Al or Love. We'd be stuck with 3 bigs with giant athleticism question marks.

[younggunsmn]

From Stop-n-pop today:

Keeping in mind my first bullet point, I asked around about the rumored Philly trade with #4 and Al going out for Samuel Dalembert and #2, and the basic answer was a smile and "you really think Philly wants that much wrapped up at the 4?" I completely agree with that sentiment. They aint' moving the pick without Brand and if they do, they're idiots.

My best guess at what they'd love to do: Pick up another lotto pick and make a deal with New Jersey that would allow them to keep 3 and 4 while picking up Favors and Johnson. They want athletes who can run the floor, rebound, and catch Ricky Rubio lobs. I really think they'll get something done with Jersey.

is Stop-n-pop rev's source?
Since snp repeated what "slipped" last night, klomp, maybe you didn't do too much damage.

[younggunsmn]

About Johnson: SNP has probably the best write-up I've seen about Johnson today:
http://www.canishoopus.com/2010/6/16/15 ... little-bit

I'll be okay with this guy at 4, I think. This is not Corey Brewer or McCants or Randy Foye or doubling up at a position. He's got the talent to be a very good player in this league and has legitimate size and skill to play his position. Handle is not the greatest, but then can you say Rudy Gay has a great handle either? Johnson is great in transition and moving without the ball, and has excellent length for the position. I think he can easily be a player who averages 18-6-2-1-1 his first year very efficiently. Big knocks on him are handle and not getting to the line enough, but he doesn't turn the ball over very much either.

Didn't shoot the lights out in that short video on Canis, but wasn't terrible either. has a quick release and the fundamentals are all sound. Hit 6 of 7 at one point. Better looking stroke than any of our current players (not saying much there).

[Krapinsky]

A 22 year old Rudy Gay probably would have averaged 30 points per game at Syracuse though.

[younggunsmn]

A 22 year old Rudy Gay probably would have averaged 30 points per game at Syracuse though.

Why? Rudy Gay averaged 15.2 PPG in that same conference his sophomore year, shot only 46% and 32% from 3 (with 2.5 TO's). Wes put up more PPG on fewer shots, shot 50% and 41% with 2.3 TO's.

Gay's shooting and efficiency have been in pretty much that same range his entire NBA career.
The only way he would have averaged 30PPG at Syracuse, even at 22, is if he took 25 shots a game.

The question about Johnson is, why didn't he do it at Iowa St? I don't know. Maturity, improved shooting mechanics, better coaching, filling out physically? He's a pretty explosive finisher and great at moving without the ball, not necessarily a great ISO scorer. The larger floor is going to help him tremendously in the NBA, and with Rubio eventually diming like crazy and with the ballmovement-oriented triangle, ISO scoring isn't going to be something we necessarily rely on him heavily for.

Defensively though, I think Johnson will be better than Cousins relative to his position because of his combination of length and quickness.

Offensively I see no reason he can't be Rudy Gay with a better jump shot.

[Krapinsky]

When Rudy Gay was 22 he was averaging 20 ppg in the NBA that's why.

[dunkonu21]

Rudy Gay also didn't have to sit out a year/play on a terrible iowa st team.

[Foye]

I'll log in my favourite draft day scenario's now.

1) Trade up for Favors
2) Draft Cousins

I'm really not on the Wesley Johnson bandwagon guys.

[shangrila]

I'm really not on the Wesley Johnson bandwagon guys.

I wasn't either, but I think if they can walk away with Favors and Johnson then it's a win. Johnson, while he has limitations, still has potential to improve and fills some needs that this team desperately has.

[Foye]

I'm really not on the Wesley Johnson bandwagon guys.

I wasn't either, but I think if they can walk away with Favors and Johnson then it's a win. Johnson, while he has limitations, still has potential to improve and fills some needs that this team desperately has.

Yes, but I'd be very disappointed if we walked away from the draft with Johnson being the #4 pick.