College players thread/ Draft Related thread

[horaceworthy]

Thabeet scares me because players that big don't tend to have long shelf lives in terms of peak effectiveness, but I wouldn't mind rolling the dice in terms of what he could potentially bring even though it wouldn't be my ideal scenario.

I like Holiday a lot, and as I've long maintained, I believe he'll be our pick if he's on the board, due to McHale's recent draft history. This could change if some wunderkind comes here for the big dance in March.

I like Evans a bit, but I'm not sold on him being enough of a distributor. I don't think that a big PG is a must because I think Foye will eventually land at the PG position, we'll just need to make sure we have another guy that can break a defense down off the bounce out there with him.

I'm going to beat the Jerel McNeal drum again. Anybody still chapped that we traded Chalmers should hop aboard the McNeal bandwagon. He's a very athletic, 6'3" combo guard that's shooting lights out from the perimeter this year and plays fantastic defense (he was the DPOY in the Big East as a sophomore and hasn't dropped off). If we got him with the pick from Boston I'd be thrilled.

There seems to be a lot of Evan Turner steam around. I get some of it, since he's 6'7" with a nice handle and a good mid-range game, but I want to see what he does when he's not playing PF.

Mullens intrigues me because he brings a combination of athleticism, height, and a great frame to the table that isn't often seen. Now if only he could do something with it on the court other than score around the basket.

Teague doesn't really do much for me. Not that I dislike him, I just don't get excited by him. Aminu intrigues me more on that team.

I still like Stephen Curry. I also like the smarter Mike Bibby comparison that rev busted out, since my comparison was stuck on less creative Steve Nash.

For the Wolves, I think we need an athletic shotblocker that can hit an outside shot (closed circuit to Ralph Sampson III after his senior year), a big, athletic SF that can d up, and another guy that can create and make shots in the backcourt. We've got enough assets this off season to make a good sized dent in the needs and wants list, I really hope we get proactive this summer.

[AQuintus]

Thabeet scares me because players that big don't tend to have long shelf lives in terms of peak effectiveness, but I wouldn't mind rolling the dice in terms of what he could potentially bring even though it wouldn't be my ideal scenario.

I agree that there is some risk for longevity, but the player in the league most similar to Thabeet in both size and role is Mutombo, and we all know that he's been playing alright for the last 60 years.

I like Holiday a lot, and as I've long maintained, I believe he'll be our pick if he's on the board, due to McHale's recent draft history. This could change if some wunderkind comes here for the big dance in March.

I agree here, too. Holliday fits the team's needs perfectly (great defense and good passing from the PG spot) and is the same kind of team-first winner that the FO seems to love.

like Evans a bit, but I'm not sold on him being enough of a distributor. I don't think that a big PG is a must because I think Foye will eventually land at the PG position, we'll just need to make sure we have another guy that can break a defense down off the bounce out there with him.

My main problem with Evans is that he strikes me as a ball dominant SG in the NBA similar to Crawford and Hughes. He's a guy who could definitely distribute the ball, but not the type to set up an offense and control the pace of the game. Then again, I haven't been able to see Memphis play much this year, so I may be wrong.

Mullens intrigues me because he brings a combination of athleticism, height, and a great frame to the table that isn't often seen. Now if only he could do something with it on the court other than score around the basket.

I usually really like big athletic post players (I had a huge man crush on DeAndre Jordan last year), but Mullins just doesn't do anything for me. He's big and athletic for sure, but he doesn't use those tools in the way a big man should, playing defense. On top of that, I get the feeling with him that he's more concerned with looking good than he is with playing good or winning.

Teague doesn't really do much for me. Not that I dislike him, I just don't get excited by him. Aminu intrigues me more on that team.

Teague doesn't do anything for me, either. He has the same style game as Foye and the same deficiencies. The reason that Foye isn't any good at the point is because he has poor court vision, doesn't have the experience or knowledge to run an offense, and his more concerned with scoring than passing. I see those same things with Teague.

My best case scenario for this draft (assuming we don't get the first pick and Rubio doesn't come out) is:

MIN pick: Holliday

MIA pick: DeRozan (He has great size, great athleticism, and the potential to be great. And at the 19th pick, this is a low risk high reward pick)

BOS pick: Jerome Jordan (shot blocking seven footer)

[Devilzsidewalk]

Wolves are not a rich man's Eric Snow away from competing, if we draft Jrue Holiday I'm gonna be pissed.

[AQuintus]

Come on! Eric Snow made Allen Iverson look like an MVP. Imagine what a rich man's Snow could do to Foye's game.

[deeney0]

Larry Brown made Allen Iverson look like an MVP.

[revprodeji]

Rich man Snow? wow Devil...

The Marquette kid would be a decent pg prospect if we had a vet pg for him to learn from. Under most conditions we should hope to pick up a pg earlier, but if we do not then we should look to him.

Mullens is 1/4 the prospect that Pekovic is.

Evans has tools, but your concern is very valid. He needs another year, but like many of the prospects in this draft it is so potential based that we are guessing based on smoke and mirrors. One minute he looks like Joe Johnson, but the next he looks like the CC kid Boston drafted a couple years ago.

[Devilzsidewalk]

But how is Jrue Holiday is the answer? Is it his across the board pedestrian numbers that bring back (fond?) memories of Marko Jaric? His 6'3 180 lb frame that allegedly enables him to guard shooting guards even though he'll be giving up 3 inches and 40 lbs every night? He actually shoots worse from the college 3 pt line than Telfair does from the NBA 3 pt line. Our team spent about 50% of the season having no answers on offense so we should add the most offensively unproductive player in the projected lottery including Hasheem Thabeet?

The Minnesota Timberwolves are not very good yet. The winning streak was nice, but it was mostly taking advantage of mediocre teams and struggling teams. The real Wolves have 2 good frontcourt players - 1 of them an offensive threat - and a host of role players on the perimeter that are basically a roll of the dice as to whether they show up or not. If we had Wade/Telfair, I'd say we're a Jrue Holiday away. A nice smart player with a high floor that you can expect to contribute. But since we have nothing even close to Wade, we need to swing for the fences and Holiday just doesn't have that kind of potential. Maybe with Holiday our floor for the team is 42 wins, but what's our max ceiling, 2nd round?

I don't dislike Holiday at all, he'd be awesome - in the 10-20 range. But when the list of possibilities for that first pick of ours have been guys like Rubio, Harden, Griffin, even Evans or Thabeet, I don't see Holiday in that group.

[Worm Guts]

.

Mullens is 1/4 the prospect that Pekovic is.

No, there's not much basis for that comment.

[PeeDee]

I agree with Devilz about Holiday. He's been not even close to impressive this season.

I don't think he's going to end up coming out this year anyway... with his stock dropping so rapidly and with reports of scouts walking away from watching him saying "What's the big deal?", I think he'll elect to go back to UCLA for another year.

[john2jer]

Wait, everyone raves about how orgasmicly good Captain Kirk hinrich is as a defender and can take on big guards at 6'3" and 185, but Holiday can't and he'll end up bigger? That makes no sense to me.

I haven't seen Holiday in awhile, but the couple games I saw back in December and early January he looked fantastic.

[PeeDee]

I'd like to clarify I've never been a proponent of acquiring Heimlich. I'm skeptical of Holiday on his own merits, or lack there of.

[horaceworthy]

I don't dislike Holiday at all, he'd be awesome - in the 10-20 range. But when the list of possibilities for that first pick of ours have been guys like Rubio, Harden, Griffin, even Evans or Thabeet, I don't see Holiday in that group.

That's how I feel about most of this draft. Rubio, Harden, Griffin, Thabeet, and then guys 5-15 are guys I'd be happy to pick in the late lotto.

I put Evans, Holiday and Jennings all in kind of the same group as guys that have talent and I'd be okay with us picking, but their various situations have made it harder for me to firm up an opinion on them. Given the recent draft tendencies of the Wolves, my guess is that Holiday would be their guy from that group.

Looking at the DX top 10, the guy I have the best feeling about (outside of Harden, Thabeet, Griffin and Rubio) is Stephen Curry. We'll probably be picking in no man's land, after all those players are gone, but before it's appropriate to take Curry.

My ideal draft at this point, considering where we're slotted to pick right now (which will slip, I just don't know where to), would be something like:

7- Stephen Curry
17- Evan Turner or Jerome Jordan
30- Jerel McNeal or Tyler Smith

I don't think any of those guys instantly make the Wolves contenders, but I think all of them bring something to the table the Wolves could use.

[Worm Guts]

The thing about Curry is that he's a tweener that's going to have problems playing defense in the NBA, which already describes everyone on the Wolves roster.

[Zeitgeister]

Jrue had a bad game against Arizona State, but he's been pretty good all year. Guards typically don't put up big numbers in UCLA's offense though, its important to know this. Darren Collison is a senior and he only averages 13 PPG just for reference. It seems that Tyreke Evans name hs been brought up in this forum more recently, while I do like him, I still think Jrue Holiday is the better prospect. Just for reference, here are some of their numbers:

Jrue Holiday:
27 MPG
10 PPG (50% FG) (30% 3point) (73% FT)
3.5 APG (2 TO)
4 RPG
1.5 SPG
.5 BPG

Tyreke Evans:
28 MPG
17 PPG (45% FG) (31% 3 point) (71% FT)
3.7 APG (3.3 TO)
5.3 RPG
2.3 SPG
.5 BPG

If you just look at the PPG stats by themselves, it appears that Tyreke is outplaying Jrue by quite a bit, but Evans is given a lot more opportunities to score. Then when you look at the assist numbers, Jrue is a more efficient passer even though he doesn't have the ball in his hands as often. Defensively, I think most would agree that Jrue has the upper hand, but Tyreke is no stiff on that end when he puts in the effort, he still racks up a good amount of steals.



175 FGA

[deeney0]

Curry's going to have problems on offense in the NBA, too. There's really no one I want to avoid more this year.

[revprodeji]

Why is that?

[4ho5ive]

Holiday vs. Westbrook-Weaknesses

J.Holiday
- Ability to get to free throw line
- Go-to scoring mentality
- Not a true point guard
- Stuck between 1 and 2
- Limited upside?
- Not always assertive
- College system makes him difficult to evaluate
- Jack of all trades, master of none?
- Not productive enough
- Relatively unproven
- Tweener?
- Average explosiveness
- 3-point range
- 3-point shooting percentages
- Free throw shooting
- Pull-up jumper

R.Westbrook
- All-around offensive polish
- Mid-range game
- Not a true point guard
- Ability to create own shot
- Average ball-handler
- Not ready to contribute immediately
- Tweener?
- Size for position
- Undersized
- Average shooter

I'm sure its been mentioned but there are a lot of similarities btwn the 2 coming out of college. Westbrook is certainly the better athlete but i think long term Holiday is a better PG prospect

[invno1]

Curry's numbers are better than Rose's were. Curry will be a handfull in the NBA. Why is it peeps have him as a bust? Is it cause peeps see Foye as the 2 alongside Curry. I just saw a trade idea where Watson comes to Timberwolves for Miller. I woud 1000 times take the rook.

[AQuintus]

Curry's numbers compared to Rose's numbers don't matter in this discussion because Rose is a freak athlete even by NBA standards, he was (and is) a much better passer and ballhandler, and he's a pass first player.

Curry, on the other hand, is slightly above athlete by college standards, still isn't much of a passer or primary ballhandler (he is improving here, though), and is a guy that looks for his own shot first (much like Foye).

Edit: On top of that, Curry is the only NBA player on his mid-major squad and has been given the green light to do whatever he wants. Rose was a freshman going to a stacked team that was told to play within a system.

[Zeitgeister]

Curry's numbers are better than Rose's were. Curry will be a handfull in the NBA. Why is it peeps have him as a bust? Is it cause peeps see Foye as the 2 alongside Curry. I just saw a trade idea where Watson comes to Timberwolves for Miller. I woud 1000 times take the rook.

Rose and Curry are completely different players. Curry is known to be a great shooter in college, which is the opposite of Rose. Rose was a lock to be a top 3 pick even before he blew up in the tournament, and the reason for that is because his physical gifts are so far above and beyond Curry's that its not close. Rose also was showing the skills to be a capable point guard at the next level, whereas Curry is a bit of a question mark.