Ban Howard Mass: The new draft thread

[Devilzsidewalk]

But you would spend it on Love, who is an undersized center?

yes, because his game makes it work for him. If Mayo used his size to his advantage, ie beating people off the dribble, then I'd be considering him viable.

[TrentTuckerForever]

^That's a different argument, and a lot more valid point in my opinion. I'm just saying that I personally wouldn't move Mayo down my draft board because I don't think this incident shows a lack of "character." Slightly OT, did you guys see the story on Karl Malone's unacknowledged son, born out of wedlock?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ill/080507

To me THAT shows a lack of character... and Malone is the 2nd most prolific scorer in NBA history. So what exactly does character have to do with NBA success again?

[Devilzsidewalk]

^That's a different argument, and a lot more valid point in my opinion. I'm just saying that I personally wouldn't move Mayo down my draft board because I don't think this incident shows a lack of "character." Slightly OT, did you guys see the story on Karl Malone's unacknowledged son, born out of wedlock?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ill/080507

To me THAT shows a lack of character... and Malone is the 2nd most prolific scorer in NBA history. So what exactly does character have to do with NBA success again?

I don't worry about character per se, I worry about distractions. Malone wasn't much of a distraction, for the most part he was a pretty quiet guy during his career, but I worry about distractions w/ Mayo. He might be savvy enough to 'play the game' if you will, in a desire to market himself, I'm not sure.

All in all, I don't get a good feeling about him being a good team player and not focusing on just wanting to be a superstar, and I don't think his game is good enough to overlook that. I think he wants to be a super duper star, and I worry that being stuck in a bad market for a bad team is going to bring out the inner Steve Francis in him.

[C.lupus]

I don't worry about character per se, I worry about distractions. Malone wasn't much of a distraction, for the most part he was a pretty quiet guy during his career, but I worry about distractions w/ Mayo. He might be savvy enough to 'play the game' if you will, in a desire to market himself, I'm not sure.

All in all, I don't get a good feeling about him being a good team player and not focusing on just wanting to be a superstar, and I don't think his game is good enough to overlook that. I think he wants to be a super duper star, and I worry that being stuck in a bad market for a bad team is going to bring out the inner Steve Francis in him.

I have a lot of the same concerns about Beasley, but his numbers basically force you to take him top 2. Reports that I've read out of USC and from other posters seem to indicate Mayo isn't a cancer so I'm less worried about that. Wanting to play in a big market could be an issue down the road. On the other hand, a team of Foye-Mayo-Brewer-Jefferson could end up being very good. That could override marketing.

[Devilzsidewalk]

-= original quote snipped =-



I have a lot of the same concerns about Beasley, but his numbers basically force you to take him top 2. Reports that I've read out of USC and from other posters seem to indicate Mayo isn't a cancer so I'm less worried about that. Wanting to play in a big market could be an issue down the road. On the other hand, a team of Foye-Mayo-Brewer-Jefferson could end up being very good. That could override marketing.

It could. I'm not completely UNsold on Mayo, I just feel in the top 5, there are other guys I'd go for because I don't have faith in Mayo:
1) as a viable leader for a championship team 2) committed to sticking in MN past his rookie contract 3) as a marked improvement over McCants

if I'm going to go with a flawed player, I want to go with one of the big men. The only guard on my radar is Rose. And the Wolves have set a good precedent with team player mentalities with guys like Jefferson, Foye, and Gomes, I don't want to take a step back in that area.

The Spurs don't have any "I'm the superstar" players, I like that mode of thinking.

[PeeDee]

It could. I'm not completely UNsold on Mayo, I just feel in the top 5, there are other guys I'd go for because I don't have faith in Mayo:
1) as a viable leader for a championship team 2) committed to sticking in MN past his rookie contract 3) as a marked improvement over McCants

This would be the biggest reason to avoid Mayo IMO.

[mandurugo]

-= original quote snipped =-
I have a lot of the same concerns about Beasley, but his numbers basically force you to take him top 2. Reports that I've read out of USC and from other posters seem to indicate Mayo isn't a cancer so I'm less worried about that. Wanting to play in a big market could be an issue down the road. On the other hand, a team of Foye-Mayo-Brewer-Jefferson could end up being very good. That could override marketing.

What has Beasley done to make you have those concerns?

[Krapinsky]

Here's some interesting insight from Chad Ford regarding how this Mayo mess would affect his draft stock---


Chad:

I spoke with several NBA executives, who had previously told me that their background checks on Mayo were positive, to get their take on these allegations.

"It's a complete non-issue to us," said one GM. "If we started eliminating prospects based off of accusations that they've taken money or gifts, there wouldn't be anyone left to draft."

"If I really like him, I still draft him," said another executive. "Of course I talk to him about the perception and how he has to steer clear of that kind of bad press, but I still take him if that's the player I like."

Said another executive: "You've got a poor kid from a single mother home who had a man come into his life and offer to buy him things. It sounds like O.J. may have taken some of the gifts. I don't know many kids who wouldn't. We've got to quit making these kids into criminals."

[Tekkenlaw]

Mayo's work ethic and passion for the game overshadow his alleged off the court issues for me. Draftexpress lists him as 6' 5", and they usually have accurate measurements. That's what he will be listed at in the NBA, he is probably 6'4" without shoes.

Any team he goes to will be a small market, unless the Clips or Knicks move up.

Hopefully all of this is moot though and we draft 1st or 2nd.

[TrentTuckerForever]

What has Beasley done to make you have those concerns?

After going to the Texas Tech - Kansas State basketball game and seeing him live, in person, there is no doubt about it - Michael Beasley is an absolute beast. He has as many skills as any other player in NCAA Division I basketball and has single handily made the Kansas State Wildcats contenders in the Big XII.

But when the question of whether or not Beasley is better than Kevin Durant, what Complete Sports posed a few weeks ago, my answer does not take any numerical statistics into account. The most important stat to me is maturity, and for Beasley that his lack of it. As the Washington Post reported last March, Michael Beasley's immaturity is really no secret. He jumped from high school to high school five times in only four years, and he just assumes he will make it to the National Basketball Association because of his skills; but the NBA should never be considered a given. Though Beasley and Durant's numbers from their freshman year are almost completely identical thus far, Beasley needs to realize that is time to grow up and stop doing petty things that get him in trouble both on and off the court. Against Texas Tech, on Wednesday, there is no doubt that Michael Beasley was frustrated and played nowhere near his 'A' game, but still managed to score 22 points and grab 15 rebounds. The problem was that Beasley was noticeably frustrated and did nothing but complain the entire game; if he did that in the NBA, he wouldn't be playing or very long.

Michael Beasley has all of the talent to be a superstar in the NBA, but now he needs to gain the maturity level too - before it's too late. If Beasley continues with his immature behavior it won't be long before he is kicked to the curb like so many other young stars.

Beasley did not arrive without any bumps. He attended six high schools in five states and had been criticized for a lack of maturity off the court. After being dismissed by the basketball power Oak Hill Academy, he told The Washington Post that he had gotten into trouble for pranks like signing his name on school property with an indelible marker.

[TrentTuckerForever]

^Thanks for pulling those in, C.lupus. For me the biggest concerns are not character but fit. The ONLY way I'd pick Beasley would be if the Wolves got #2 and Rose went #1. In that situation you're pretty much compelled to take the best player available, and that's Beasley. He'll probably be a great pro, but he plays the same position as the only sure thing on the Wolves' roster right now.

I'd draft him then listen to offers... Beasley/Walker to the Nets for the #10 pick (Love or Randolph), a future #1 and Jefferson? Beasley/Jaric/Walker to the Pacers for the #11 (DJ Augustine) and O'Neal? Those kind of deals.

[deeney0]

O'Neal? R Jefferson, who's facing charges in this city? Neither is what I'd want for Beasley, although a NJ offer of #10, a future first, and Sean Williams or Josh Boone at least opens the discussion.

[TrentTuckerForever]

Jermaine O'Neal is 29. Although I will grant you he's got a ton of mileage on him, he's a terrific defender and rebounder, and he's a class act. Couldn't you see him thriving in a complementary role for another 5-7 years in the league? Somebody is going to figure out how to put him next to a LeBron, or a Wade or even a Joe Johnson, and his career will be rejuvenated. Why not put him next to Foye and Big Al?

I've always liked Richard Jefferson for the Wolves, and I think when he has his day in court (if it goes that far) it'll probably be shown that the charges are a little overblown. Regardless, I think a guy who's been a starter on two NBA finals teams would be a nice veteran piece.

[deeney0]

JO has to prove he can return to some semblance of his old form before anyone will even think of taking on that contract.

[mandurugo]

I still think it's a mistake to trade quality for quantity - there are very few exceptions to this rule, and I don't think the Beasley case is one. Thanks for pulling all the quotes, those are basically the ones I've seen to about his character - there really are no hard incidents of bad character issues unlike some players in the past. Definately everyone agrees he is immature and has a silly sense of humour. This is not a red flag for me in an 18 year old kid, as opposed to having a bad crew around him, legal problems, or evidence of being a lockerroom cancer. I really didn't see anything that I'd call character issues or causes for concern... We've drafted cancers (Laettner) and headcases (Rider) and overlooked the issues because of talent. As far as I can tell this guy should not be in the same conversation as those two.

[TheFranchise21]

Character concerns or not, I still take Beasley at #2, and Rose at #1.

[horaceworthy]

I'm definitely not saying I wouldn't draft him. I don't think he is a bad kid, just immature and maybe too silly. But, if we are going to hold the bar high for Mayo at #3, then we should at least use the same yardstick for Beasley at #1 or #2.

Then shouldn't Rose's cancellation of his press conference be mentioned. Reportedly he had to cancel it because he tried to steal the girlfriend of a Memphis football player, got his butt whupped, and still bore the marks of the beating on his face when the press conference was scheduled.

He also allegedly took $500,000 from David Falk, but he waited 4 months or so to do that, so he wasn't putting his eligibility at risk.

[TheFranchise21]

Like you've said many times horace, all these character things are second, thirdhand information.

Beasley has done nothing significant enough to not go in the top two. Earlier this year, I pointed to his character issues as a reason he should not be #1. At this point, they are a non factor now to me.

[C.lupus]

Absolutely. We should use the same yardstick for everybody. They all have issues and they are all young. I haven't seen or heard anything yet that makes me change my draft order though.

1. Rose
2. Beasley
3. Mayo

[Devilzsidewalk]

I agree with everybody here, the only person we can trust is Kevin Love