Pau Gasol

[Trifecta47]

If the Lakers want Love, at least offer something that's worth his contract! Otherwise, keep him and become more realistic about how giant salaries actually affect teams that have normal NBA payrolls.

Trade Kicker? Not according to Hoops Hype: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

Says Pau is making 19.2 next and expiring? Where did you get the trade kicker info? -- ok, looked it up. Yes, the trade kicker will pay him 5 percent more next year and this, most of which is already paid out, but there's no additional year after next year. So, Pau will be expiring next year.

Look, the Wolves are tied up with Love and he's making $45M the next 3 years while Pau will be making $19M for one more year. But then maybe the info on Hoops Hype is out of date?

1. Gasol's trade kicker is 15%. Please save these sites for more accurate financial information:

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/12-13salaries.htm

http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/lakers.jsp

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AodNvAy3ZYZmdGE3NDBqMElRUXh2REN4Q3pZRG1TU1E&gid=15

2, The Wolves are certainly do not feel "tied up" by Kevin Love's contract. By some statistics, he was the second best player in the NBA the previous two seasons, and he's certainly a top ten player, well worth his (much smaller than Gasol's) max deal. He signed the deal and is locked in for three more shots at a championships, and while it's unlikely the Wolves would trade Love since it's so hard for them to get stars, they could certainly get a better offer for him than Pau Gasol.

I believe this article from the LA Times is more updated than your links:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/27 ... r-20121127

[The J Rocka]

I guess I'm only concerned about the durability right now. If they can stay healthy Pek and Love easily good enough to the starting frontcourt for a playoff team.

Offensively it's a great duo but opposing players are going to abuse us inside. That Rockets loss when James Harden was driving in on us was easy work for him. Teams are going to keep doing that against us and I feel it's going to be a problem moving forward. I feel we need to make some kind of gamble move than standing pat. I don't see us adding our SG that will put us over the hump in FA, especially if we're going to keep Pek and sign AK to a new contract if he opts out and if we keep battling for the 8th seed, Love is good as gone.

Downgrading our PF or C position to get a better SG is something we should consider because all I see in Shved is a solid 6th man running with the second unit versus being our starter. I don't want us to add Courtney Lee or Anthony Morrow and call it a day. We won't be good enough.

[C.lupus]

I believe this article from the LA Times is more updated than your links:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/27 ... r-20121127

That's good to know. Doesn't make me want him any more but it's good to know.

[Worm Guts]

I guess I'm only concerned about the durability right now. If they can stay healthy Pek and Love easily good enough to the starting frontcourt for a playoff team.

Offensively it's a great duo but opposing players are going to abuse us inside. That Rockets loss when James Harden was driving in on us was easy work for him. Teams are going to keep doing that against us and I feel it's going to be a problem moving forward. I feel we need to make some kind of gamble move than standing pat. I don't see us adding our SG that will put us over the hump in FA, especially if we're going to keep Pek and sign AK to a new contract if he opts out and if we keep battling for the 8th seed, Love is good as gone.

Downgrading our PF or C position to get a better SG is something we should consider because all I see in Shved is a solid 6th man running with the second unit versus being our starter. I don't want us to add Courtney Lee or Anthony Morrow and call it a day. We won't be good enough.

It would take a really good SG for me to consider trading Love or Pek and I don't know who it would be. I don't think I'd do it for a rookie/draft pick, so that doesn't leave a lot of options. I don't want to take a gamble that could set us back. We'll have a relatively high draft pick this year and that could help us find our SG.

[shrink]

He might be able to put up similar raw numbers, but he can't score nearly as efficiently as Pek and Pek's been the better rebounder this year and has the higher PER. Then you factor in that Pek is younger and costs less...

That's where the mismanagement comes in, and is 0.8 more rebounds really that much of a difference?

What do you think the difference is going to be next year .. and beyond?

Pek continues to improve .. Gasol, at best, after all those miles on his body .. can at best hope to maintain.

The biggest difference is going to be that Pek will get a salary at what the marrket would bear -- Gasol's is much much higher.

[shrink]

I believe this article from the LA Times is more updated than your links:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/27 ... r-20121127

Which says $19.6, like I said. $19.0 + TK.

All that makes Gasol's available bonus about $650,000. Since Gasol has two years in total left on his contract, his total potential bonus would be double that figure, or $1.3 million.

The 2013 salary is the same ratio as the last, based on the number after the trade kicker. That's the $20.

And by the way -- many of those links have the Rudy Gay already updated in them. You're pulling an article from November 27, 2012 and saying it's more updated.

[shrink]

I'm curious what happened between now and six weeks ago, when the few Pau Gasol hold outs (Krapinsky and Klomp) admitted he was too expensive?

We still know he's horribly over-priced for his production.

We still don't know if his decline is just because he's being misused, or because of the eventual decline all players face.

[C.lupus]

We still don't know if his decline is just because he's being misused, or because of the eventual decline all players face.

I think it's a bit of both.

2010/11: 18.8ppg / 10.2rpg / 3.3apg / 0.6spg / 1.6bpg / .530eFG% / .589TS% / 23.3PER
2011/12: 17.4ppg / 10.4rpg / 3.7apg / 0.6spg / 1.4bpg / .504eFG% / .547TS% / 20.5PER
2012/13: 12.8ppg / 7.9rpg / 3.7apg / 0.5spg / 1.3bpg / .457eFG% / .502TS% / 15.4PER

Points and rebounds per game didn't really drop until this year. Assists and steals have been fairly steady over the past three years. Other metrics have been dropping steadily.

[Klomp]

The biggest difference is going to be that Pek will get a salary at what the marrket would bear -- Gasol's is much much higher.

Once again...for ONE year. After next year it switches. Pau will be the reasonably priced one, and Pek will be market-value, at best.

[Klomp]

I'm curious what happened between now and six weeks ago, when the few Pau Gasol hold outs (Krapinsky and Klomp) admitted he was too expensive?

D'Antoni has been forced to use a corner of his brain because of the Howard injury, and Gasol is showing he is productive at center.

[shrink]

I'll let you stat guys figure if you can isolate how much of Gasol's decline is from the poor way D'Antoni has used him. Note that Bill Simmons suggests that the more Bynum played center, the more Gasol's numbers were hurt as well.

I do know that Gasol is not going to last forever, and we have multiple reasons for a decline, and one that we know will eventually be true. I liked C.lupus response ("a bit of both"), because I question when people say, "Yeah, but Gasol is immune from aging - that can't be the reason so treat him like he's the 27 year old Pau!"

I do not put much weight in his play in the Olympics. True centers are rare, and he was often facing the likes of Timofrey Mozgov - a clearly low-level NBA center. Center was even Team USA's weakest position, so I put more weight into his NBA numbers.

[shrink]

The biggest difference is going to be that Pek will get a salary at what the marrket would bear -- Gasol's is much much higher.

Once again...for ONE year. After next year it switches. Pau will be the reasonably priced one, and Pek will be market-value, at best.

I don't believe that teams sign contracts where only the first year is market-value. That's why some deals have raises, and some do not.

And even if that was true that only the first year is market-value, when Pau signed his next deal, the same would be true for him.

Finally, even if you're specualting on future contracts, we have the actual values of the contracts we know now. Pek is WAY under market value this year, and Gasol is WAY over market value this year and the next.

[Jetset]

I'll let you stat guys figure if you can isolate how much of Gasol's decline is from the poor way D'Antoni has used him. Note that Bill Simmons suggests that the more Bynum played center, the more Gasol's numbers were hurt as well.

I do know that Gasol is not going to last forever, and we have multiple reasons for a decline, and one that we know will eventually be true. I liked C.lupus response ("a bit of both"), because I question when people say, "Yeah, but Gasol is immune from aging - that can't be the reason so treat him like he's the 27 year old Pau!"

I do not put much weight in his play in the Olympics. True centers are rare, and he was often facing the likes of Timofrey Mozgov - a clearly low-level NBA center. Center was even Team USA's weakest position, so I put more weight into his NBA numbers.

lakers fan here. i don't know how to calculate just how much his production has dropped off since he started playing PF for us, but i do know that pau has been misused for going on 3 years now, and this goes back to phil's last year when pau permanently moved to PF. and coincidentally enough, we haven't won a championship and pau hasn't looked the same since then. brown and d'antoni figured that since pau can occasionally knock down a mid range jumper that his role in an offense should be predicated on that, but the reality is that pau is a post player first. his mid range game is only icing on the cake. and you're starting to see he still has some left in the tank when he's playing the position and getting the ball where he naturally thrives at which is the paint.

he's 32 years old, i can't think of that many great players that truly bottom out in their early 30s, especially ones that don't rely on athleticism. but i understand that 32 year olds ready to win now don't mean too much for young rebuilding teams like minny, but pau's not done skill wise. he's about to be done la wise though because his pouting is getting to be a bit much. he feels disrespected by his bench role, and rightfully so. but that's the only way we can utilize him to his strengths, apparently he doesn't want to accept that so he has to go.

[Cashin out]

I was all for a Minnesota trade, but after tonight's game, Pau is still better than anyone on your roster except Klove.

You guys should have got him when you had a chance. Pau is still a top 5 center in the NBA.

Gasol>Pekovik

[Klomp]

I was all for a Minnesota trade, but after tonight's game, Pau is still better than anyone on your roster except Klove.

You guys should have got him when you had a chance. Pau is still a top 5 center in the NBA.

Gasol>Pekovik

Key word...TONIGHT.

D'Antoni isn't smart enough to be able to use BOTH Howard AND Gasol at the same time. One of their value will be better served in a trade. Lakers aren't trading Howard. Gasol has to go.

[Cashin out]

I was all for a Minnesota trade, but after tonight's game, Pau is still better than anyone on your roster except Klove.

You guys should have got him when you had a chance. Pau is still a top 5 center in the NBA.

Gasol>Pekovik

Key word...TONIGHT.

D'Antoni isn't smart enough to be able to use BOTH Howard AND Gasol at the same time. One of their value will be better served in a trade. Lakers aren't trading Howard. Gasol has to go.

Not just tonight, Gasol can still give you 20/10 as the second option. The problem is we have Dwight and we can't focus on Pau as the primary #2.

[Klomp]

I was all for a Minnesota trade, but after tonight's game, Pau is still better than anyone on your roster except Klove.

You guys should have got him when you had a chance. Pau is still a top 5 center in the NBA.

Gasol>Pekovik

Key word...TONIGHT.

D'Antoni isn't smart enough to be able to use BOTH Howard AND Gasol at the same time. One of their value will be better served in a trade. Lakers aren't trading Howard. Gasol has to go.

Not just tonight, Gasol can still give you 20/10 as the second option. The problem is we have Dwight and we can't focus on Pau as the primary #2.

Right, that's what I was saying. I said tonight because tonight was no Dwight

[Murphs56]

Pau has been doing this against the Wolves for years. I had a feeling it was going to happen again

[shrink]

I was all for a Minnesota trade, but after tonight's game, Pau is still better than anyone on your roster except Klove.

You guys should have got him when you had a chance. Pau is still a top 5 center in the NBA.

Gasol>Pekovik

Key word...TONIGHT.

Bingo. Unfortunately for the Lakers, Gasol < Pekovic FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON.

And I'm not sure he was even worth more tonight! Since you always ignore the money, let me pass on another fact I expect you to ignore.

Do you think that MIN got it's $4.8 mil out of Pekovic with his off game of 14 PTS and 9 RBS? Do you think Gasol's extra 8 PTS and 3 RBS was worth an extra $14.2 million dollars?

Gasol isn't just paid like a good player in the league. He's not even just paid like a random All Star. He's paid like he's one of the five best players in the league and guess what? He isn't close to that.

[Jetset]

I was all for a Minnesota trade, but after tonight's game, Pau is still better than anyone on your roster except Klove.

You guys should have got him when you had a chance. Pau is still a top 5 center in the NBA.

Gasol>Pekovik

Key word...TONIGHT.

D'Antoni isn't smart enough to be able to use BOTH Howard AND Gasol at the same time. One of their value will be better served in a trade. Lakers aren't trading Howard. Gasol has to go.

it's not that he isn't smart enough to, it's that howard and gasol just cannot make it work. i know d'antoni is a terrible head coach, but to say he isn't smart enough to make it work is also saying both brown and phil weren't smart enough because pau didn't quite exactly work next to bynum either.

howard plays his best when he has the paint all to himself and shooter spaced out, much like it was in orlando. pau also needs to be in the paint to score consistently and only occasionally shoot a mid range shot. well the paint gets too congested when they're both on the floor at the same time, and when they are usually the defender that's on pau will roll off and help his man defend dwight. and since dwight doesn't have that much of a passing ability and his offensive game isn't up to snuff he's either fouled immediately, pushed out of bounds, or forced to put up some ridiculous layup that has no chance of going in. also when they're both on the floor at the same time the defense is bogged down and takes a hit because of how slow pau is. that's why clark starts and the defense as well as offense is quicker. and this all without mentioning that pau's role on the floor goes from being a 20+ pt scorer to being nothing more than an assist man with career lows when he's on the floor with dwight, so playing them together at the same time is a terrible idea. they just can't make it work.

and don't worry about that troll. he, much like other fans on our board are very indecisive and their emotions change game after game. one game they're loving dwight and saying he isn't going anywhere, next game that guy is on the trade board coming up with trade scenarios for him. one game they're cursing pau and want him on the next flight out of la, the next night he's not for sale. that's just how it is unfortunately. but i fully expect pau to be gone by feb. 21 whether it's to minny to play with rubio or wherever. it's just not going to work long term, pau hasn't committed to coming off the bench for next season and like you said we're not trading dwight. to not trade pau is delaying the inevitable.