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Future of PG position (in MIN)

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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#61 » by shrink » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:27 pm

The “near” future of the PG position.

Coach Tom Thibodeau said that Jeff Teague (sore left ankle) will be out at least another 7-10 days.

Teague did not play Monday due to the ankle issue and was sidelined Wednesday as well. He had already been ruled out of Friday's game, but now we learn he'll miss at least another week. The Wolves next game is Sunday, and they then play Wednesday, Friday of next week. It appears the earliest he could return is next Sunday at Miami, which is nine days from today. Derrick Rose, who has been excellent, will remain the starter with Tyus Jones serving as the primary backup at PG

It will be nice to see Okogie get more minutes!
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#62 » by AirP. » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:32 am

shrink wrote:The “near” future of the PG position.

Coach Tom Thibodeau said that Jeff Teague (sore left ankle) will be out at least another 7-10 days.

Teague did not play Monday due to the ankle issue and was sidelined Wednesday as well. He had already been ruled out of Friday's game, but now we learn he'll miss at least another week. The Wolves next game is Sunday, and they then play Wednesday, Friday of next week. It appears the earliest he could return is next Sunday at Miami, which is nine days from today. Derrick Rose, who has been excellent, will remain the starter with Tyus Jones serving as the primary backup at PG

It will be nice to see Okogie get more minutes!

I wonder if this is a way to see what they have without Teague(possible trade?).
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#63 » by Tukkerwolf » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:56 am

The PG situation keeps bugging me. Teague is our best PG and propably still under contract next year, but don't we need to be thinking long term? Rose is the perfect 6th man, but preferably at the PG and will he resign at a reasonable price? And Tyus, our local guy, young, but can he be a starter and at what price can he be retained? I'm so torn and have no clue what I would do as FO. Trading one of them for a scoring wing seems the logical thing to do, but who?
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#64 » by Klomp » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:40 am

At this point, I feel like Tyus is locked in to come back next year. Say what you want about him being the local kid, but I really think he has the trust of the coach and he usually ends up with positive contributions. Plus I don't think it hurts his case that Flip was such a staunch supporter, and I think Ryan is too.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#65 » by Tukkerwolf » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:16 am

Klomp wrote:At this point, I feel like Tyus is locked in to come back next year. Say what you want about him being the local kid, but I really think he has the trust of the coach and he usually ends up with positive contributions. Plus I don't think it hurts his case that Flip was such a staunch supporter, and I think Ryan is too.
Agreed, but.... let's say Teague opt in, we can sign Tyus to 50/4 and Rose says he's willing to sign a 12/2 contract. Considering how awesome Rose has been for the bench do you let him walk for such a price?
I think most agree the 2PG line-up is a waste in most matchups.
I know it's all hypothetical, but thats all I have now and with all the options and variables I can't decide a direction..
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#66 » by Klomp » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:54 am

Tukkerwolf wrote:
Klomp wrote:At this point, I feel like Tyus is locked in to come back next year. Say what you want about him being the local kid, but I really think he has the trust of the coach and he usually ends up with positive contributions. Plus I don't think it hurts his case that Flip was such a staunch supporter, and I think Ryan is too.
Agreed, but.... let's say Teague opt in, we can sign Tyus to 50/4 and Rose says he's willing to sign a 12/2 contract. Considering how awesome Rose has been for the bench do you let him walk for such a price?
I think most agree the 2PG line-up is a waste in most matchups.
I know it's all hypothetical, but thats all I have now and with all the options and variables I can't decide a direction..

Personally, I would still re-sign both of them in that situation. At the end of the day, Teague's opt-in is just for one season. I'm not letting one season of Teague stop me if I believe both Jones and Rose deserve to be back on this team.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#67 » by King Malta » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:04 am

Klomp wrote:
Tukkerwolf wrote:
Klomp wrote:At this point, I feel like Tyus is locked in to come back next year. Say what you want about him being the local kid, but I really think he has the trust of the coach and he usually ends up with positive contributions. Plus I don't think it hurts his case that Flip was such a staunch supporter, and I think Ryan is too.
Agreed, but.... let's say Teague opt in, we can sign Tyus to 50/4 and Rose says he's willing to sign a 12/2 contract. Considering how awesome Rose has been for the bench do you let him walk for such a price?
I think most agree the 2PG line-up is a waste in most matchups.
I know it's all hypothetical, but thats all I have now and with all the options and variables I can't decide a direction..

Personally, I would still re-sign both of them in that situation. At the end of the day, Teague's opt-in is just for one season. I'm not letting one season of Teague stop me if I believe both Jones and Rose deserve to be back on this team.


Agree, I suggest a 19 million dollar expiring deal might have some value on the market too.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#68 » by minimus » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:09 am

King Malta wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Tukkerwolf wrote:Agreed, but.... let's say Teague opt in, we can sign Tyus to 50/4 and Rose says he's willing to sign a 12/2 contract. Considering how awesome Rose has been for the bench do you let him walk for such a price?
I think most agree the 2PG line-up is a waste in most matchups.
I know it's all hypothetical, but thats all I have now and with all the options and variables I can't decide a direction..

Personally, I would still re-sign both of them in that situation. At the end of the day, Teague's opt-in is just for one season. I'm not letting one season of Teague stop me if I believe both Jones and Rose deserve to be back on this team.


Agree, I suggest a 19 million dollar expiring deal might have some value on the market too.


Agree, also as well as I understand, luxury tax is calculated after regular season, so we could live till deadline with Teague contract and then trade him.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#69 » by Worm Guts » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:08 pm

Tukkerwolf wrote:
Klomp wrote:At this point, I feel like Tyus is locked in to come back next year. Say what you want about him being the local kid, but I really think he has the trust of the coach and he usually ends up with positive contributions. Plus I don't think it hurts his case that Flip was such a staunch supporter, and I think Ryan is too.
Agreed, but.... let's say Teague opt in, we can sign Tyus to 50/4 and Rose says he's willing to sign a 12/2 contract. Considering how awesome Rose has been for the bench do you let him walk for such a price?
I think most agree the 2PG line-up is a waste in most matchups.
I know it's all hypothetical, but thats all I have now and with all the options and variables I can't decide a direction..


I’ve been way off on this type of thing before, but that seems like too much for Tyus and not enough for Rose. I’d almost expect those per year amounts to be flipped, 6-7 million per year for Tyus and 12-13 for Rose.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#70 » by alabamawolf » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:36 pm

Tyus is still a backup PG long term and anything over $8 mil will be an overpay. I’m glad he’s playing better but he still doesn’t do any 1 thing great. I’d offer him 18/3
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#71 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:01 pm

Klomp wrote:At this point, I feel like Tyus is locked in to come back next year. Say what you want about him being the local kid, but I really think he has the trust of the coach and he usually ends up with positive contributions. Plus I don't think it hurts his case that Flip was such a staunch supporter, and I think Ryan is too.


I believe you are right that Ryan is a big proponent of Tyus. That means as much or more than anything to his future here.

I don't believe that means he should get a better contract offer (per year) than say Rose to stay for example. Tyus without a more consistent shooting ability, I mean even on wide open shots, is a limited player that cannot be overpaid. Still love his high BBIQ. Still want him to stay here. But won't overpay an inconsistent shooter to stay. Wouldn't.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#72 » by minimus » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:10 pm

alabamawolf wrote:Tyus is still a backup PG long term and anything over $8 mil will be an overpay. I’m glad he’s playing better but he still doesn’t do any 1 thing great. I’d offer him 18/3


He does. Assists per TOs ratio, steals per foul, steals per TOs all suggests that he is elite passer and decision maker, and very good team defender.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#73 » by alabamawolf » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:18 pm

minimus wrote:
alabamawolf wrote:Tyus is still a backup PG long term and anything over $8 mil will be an overpay. I’m glad he’s playing better but he still doesn’t do any 1 thing great. I’d offer him 18/3


He does. Assists per TOs ratio, steals per foul, steals per TOs all suggests that he is elite passer and decision maker, and very good team defender.


I’d agree that he’s a good team defender. He makes the right passes but he’s not dynamic enough to create shots for others. Basically a solid backup PG. There are a bunch of guards in this league that can do what he can which is why I don’t think it’s smart to overpay
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#74 » by minimus » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:29 pm

alabamawolf wrote:
minimus wrote:
alabamawolf wrote:Tyus is still a backup PG long term and anything over $8 mil will be an overpay. I’m glad he’s playing better but he still doesn’t do any 1 thing great. I’d offer him 18/3


He does. Assists per TOs ratio, steals per foul, steals per TOs all suggests that he is elite passer and decision maker, and very good team defender.


I’d agree that he’s a good team defender. He makes the right passes but he’s not dynamic enough to create shots for others. Basically a solid backup PG. There are a bunch of guards in this league that can do what he can which is why I don’t think it’s smart to overpay


Again, Assists per TOs ratio, steals per foul, steals per TOs all suggest that there is no other PG like Tyus.

P.S. I am with you about not overpaying FAs. I also agree that Tyus is somewhat one dimensional at scoring: it is floater, open 3s and pull up J. He is not dynamic as other scoring PGs, but he knows his limits and take good decisions with the ball. The big part of his success now is that he has coach who recognise his strengths and weaknesses too.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#75 » by Klomp » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:52 pm

alabamawolf wrote:I’d agree that he’s a good team defender. He makes the right passes but he’s not dynamic enough to create shots for others. Basically a solid backup PG. There are a bunch of guards in this league that can do what he can which is why I don’t think it’s smart to overpay

There may be a bunch of guards who CAN do what he does, but how many guards DO do what he does? Athletic ability isn't everything, just look at the perception of Wiggins right now. Very few can do what he can, but what good is it if he doesn't actually do those things?
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#76 » by Jedzz » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:13 pm

Klomp wrote:
alabamawolf wrote:I’d agree that he’s a good team defender. He makes the right passes but he’s not dynamic enough to create shots for others. Basically a solid backup PG. There are a bunch of guards in this league that can do what he can which is why I don’t think it’s smart to overpay

There may be a bunch of guards who CAN do what he does, but how many guards DO do what he does? Athletic ability isn't everything, just look at the perception of Wiggins right now. Very few can do what he can, but what good is it if he doesn't actually do those things?

That might be true that others aren't always "doing it", but is Tyus always "doing it". Are you also trying to claim Tyus plays like this against any opponent? Because he gets overmatched at times and in those games should more or less be removed. I still see a backup PG for the very reasons some others are saying. In some games he looks like a liability we have to hide or play 4 on 5 with on offense.

Can we not overlook a loss like the Mavericks loss that just happened? Where were those steals some like to talk about? He made 1 of 3 shots, 1 TO, 1 PF, 7 assists and was a -15 in 19 minutes. Teague and Rose are both in the teens on shot attempts and still adding blocks, steals, rebounds, assists, etc and positive in the plus/minus during a loss. Maybe they win that game if Tyus was better in his 19 minutes, or Dieng/Saric were. Tolliver did nothing with his 5 minutes. Those 4 were the weakplays of the game. Or would you like us to think if Tyus was starting for more minutes he would have attempted shots at a much higher clip and found more chances to add his steals he is known for?

I really do like the positives he brings, but won't loft him into the air at a level that he's not showing us either. When I see him really breaking a sweat and beating himself up physically out there to give us his everything he's capable of it might be the first time. He is a skillful ball handler and high BBIQ little sucker and he uses those tools. But I don't see him improving on his weaknesses yet or leaving his heart on the floor enough. I don't see him working those handles in heavy traffic and getting bounced around. I don't see him throwing his body into the lane of bodies when it's needed. He won't. Others claim "he knows his limits" but I think he needs to push his limits much more. Maybe if he did that he might reach a new level and start deserving the backing you are trying to give him.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#77 » by alabamawolf » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:21 pm

Klomp wrote:
alabamawolf wrote:I’d agree that he’s a good team defender. He makes the right passes but he’s not dynamic enough to create shots for others. Basically a solid backup PG. There are a bunch of guards in this league that can do what he can which is why I don’t think it’s smart to overpay

There may be a bunch of guards who CAN do what he does, but how many guards DO do what he does? Athletic ability isn't everything, just look at the perception of Wiggins right now. Very few can do what he can, but what good is it if he doesn't actually do those things?

When I say there a bunch of guards in this league that can do what Tyus can do I believe there are plenty of guards that can fill in the role of a backup PG and there wouldn’t be a drop off in production. He takes care of the ball and he’s smart but he’s extremely limited otherwise. I’d like him to keep him as a backup PG but only at a fair price. I think he’s worth around 6-8 mil per year
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#78 » by Klomp » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:10 am

Jedzz wrote:Can we not overlook a loss like the Mavericks loss that just happened? Where were those steals some like to talk about? He made 1 of 3 shots, 1 TO, 1 PF, 7 assists and was a -15 in 19 minutes.

Wait, so 7 assists to 1 turnover in 19 minutes is a bad thing now?
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#79 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:58 am

Klomp wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Can we not overlook a loss like the Mavericks loss that just happened? Where were those steals some like to talk about? He made 1 of 3 shots, 1 TO, 1 PF, 7 assists and was a -15 in 19 minutes.

Wait, so 7 assists to 1 turnover in 19 minutes is a bad thing now?


Good assists? sure. That ratio is meaninless to me however. He did nothing else. Wasn't able to disrupt with steals like he occasionally can. He was outmatched and a liability on defense. He and Dario both earned their +/- as Mavs ran them over while they played. The other two PGs were able to hang in there and battle.
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Re: Future of PG position (in MIN) 

Post#80 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:58 am

I love how I'm being logged out here lately on a regular basis. Friendly.

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