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Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group

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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#61 » by shrink » Sat Jun 8, 2024 6:24 am

BlacJacMac wrote:Most of it is our arena. We're like the 15th biggest market in the US.

The Vikings have the 7th most expensive stadium and are #16 in franchise value
The Twins have the 6th most expensive park, and are #21 in franchise value
The Timberwolves have the 25th most expensive arena, and are #29 in franchise value.

BlacJacMac wrote:We’re 15th when you consider all sports. We're 13th in just the NBA.

Arenas help of course, but most of this lower valuation isn’t arena. New arenas in other sports in this town aren’t causing any of these teams to reach their 15th/13th market size prediction.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#62 » by m2002brian » Sat Jun 8, 2024 1:13 pm

shrink wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:Most of it is our arena. We're like the 15th biggest market in the US.

The Vikings have the 7th most expensive stadium and are #16 in franchise value
The Twins have the 6th most expensive park, and are #21 in franchise value
The Timberwolves have the 25th most expensive arena, and are #29 in franchise value.

BlacJacMac wrote:We’re 15th when you consider all sports. We're 13th in just the NBA.

Arenas help of course, but most of this lower valuation isn’t arena. New arenas in other sports in this town aren’t causing any of these teams to reach their 15th/13th market size prediction.



The Nets are 13th in valuation
So much for new arena and market size
Only worth .95 billion more than the wolves.

Btw. The Timberwolves are closer to a championship than either the Vikings or the Twins. Between the 3, they’d most likely be at or close to there valuation matching market size with a new arena.
Winning drives value. Denver jumped six spots after winning the title.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#63 » by thinktank » Sat Jun 8, 2024 1:55 pm

shrink wrote:Look, I get that I’m saying stuff people don’t want to hear. I don’t want to consider the Wolves relocating.

And I’m not saying it’s even probable. But I definitely disagree with posters implying it’s impossible. I would go even farther in saying that while it may never happen, three New York guys owning the team like ARod, Lore and Bloomberg makes it more likely.


AP Guy ruled it out on Dane Moore. You should check it out.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#64 » by thinktank » Sat Jun 8, 2024 2:14 pm

younggunsmn wrote:Gee I don't know maybe also has something to do with having freezing cold and icy roads which makes people not want to leave their houses all winter.
Also a mid market having to split people's seasonal disposable income with a pro hockey team (you know state of hockey and all), something most markets our size don't have to deal with, they're the only show in town.

A new arena is going to change very little on that front. What will we move up to 23rd or 24th then?
This isn't Silicon Valley or NYC or DC, where the real centers of money and power lie.
This is Meme-sota where the national analysts joke about it snowing in May.
With a one party wannabe-California government giving every business in the state serious second thoughts about staying here.

The team's valuation went up because of the exclusivity in a hyperinflating world, not because of any perceived ability to generate more revenue in this market.
It's one of 30. In the entire world.

Pro Sports franchises are status symbols for the mega wealthy. Always have been, always will be.

I'm old enough to remember rumors of this franchise being moved every single year, before it was even 5 YEARS OLD, because the owners did not have enough money. Before Taylor stepped up to the plate.
He's done a lot of dumb things over the years, but there has never been a worry about the financial statuse of the team under his watch.

These 3 idiots end up with the team, the first thing they are going to do is shake down the taxpayers for a new arena.
And if they don't get their way, they are going to threaten to move it because they can't make money here.
And the worse off Lore and Arod are financially, the more desperate and true that threat will be.

The Bloomberg supposed investment and the Regional Sports Network (something they don't have the financial means to make happen even if it wasn't a ridiculous idea) reek of desperation.
They had 2 Investment firms balk at what should have been a slam dunk deal for them.
Maybe they actually got a look at Lore's books.
His stake in the TImberwolves is likely his only significant stable investment.

If you don't like Taylor, Lore and Arod are not the solution to the problem.
They are just a bigger problem.
The Pohlads suck big time too (Carl made his fortune forclosing on farmers during the depression), but at least that greedy old man had grandkids who liked sports to take over the team.


The PE firm that wanted to partner with Lore was rejected by the NBA because the NBA said they had conflicting business interests. They chose not to divest. Then the backup PE firm stepped right up to partner with Lore.

So when you say, “they had 2 Investment firms balk at what should have been a slam dunk deal for them,” I can’t tell if you’re not getting the facts straight or intentionally being misleading.

Also, I think this point is rather extreme: “ With a one party wannabe-California government giving every business in the state serious second thoughts about staying here.” Minnesota is a HIGHLY live-able state, and our robust job market is a fact, and it wouldn’t be that way if F500 businesses like Target and U.S. Bank and General Mills and Ecolab and on and on didn’t thrive here.

Finally, regarding “freezing cold and icy roads which makes people not want to leave their houses all winter”—the fact that Minnesota is the coldest states is now becoming a selling point due to the climate crisis. That’s a much longer-term play, however we’re already starting to see some pretty crazy real estate trends that don’t bode well for the south and the west. It’s getting hotter and drier and it’s not stopping anytime soon. Heat, water shortages, and fires are only becoming more and more common. Real estate price trend is not as steep there as it is in the north, and the climate is why. People are moving there now but that’s not going to help water shortages. There’s a major, major bubble that’s going to eventually pop. Minnesota stands to gain when it does. #1 state best equipped to handle climate change? Minnesota.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#65 » by shrink » Sat Jun 8, 2024 2:39 pm

m2002brian wrote:
shrink wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:Most of it is our arena. We're like the 15th biggest market in the US.

The Vikings have the 7th most expensive stadium and are #16 in franchise value
The Twins have the 6th most expensive park, and are #21 in franchise value
The Timberwolves have the 25th most expensive arena, and are #29 in franchise value.

BlacJacMac wrote:We’re 15th when you consider all sports. We're 13th in just the NBA.

Arenas help of course, but most of this lower valuation isn’t arena. New arenas in other sports in this town aren’t causing any of these teams to reach their 15th/13th market size prediction.



The Nets are 13th in valuation
So much for new arena and market size
Only worth .95 billion more than the wolves.

Btw. The Timberwolves are closer to a championship than either the Vikings or the Twins. Between the 3, they’d most likely be at or close to there valuation matching market size with a new arena.
Winning drives value. Denver jumped six spots after winning the title.

There you go. Arenas help. Market size helps. And as we’ve seen in MIN, fans come back when you win. These all drive revenues, and revenues drive valuation.

There are a few teams that perennially sell out arenas, on expensive tickets, regardless of whether the team is winning or losing, like the Knicks and Lakers. Maybe GSW and BOS belong in this class too. These next most profitable are also in the biggest cities, LA, CHI, DAL, MIA, HOU, PHI, which can still sell expensive tickets because of their market.

Some cities that are much smaller than us, even just a third our size, are more profitable. They sell out because they may be the one big thing in town, but they have to charge less just because everything is cheaper in these cities.

MIN is a huge under-performer. We have the size, and the market to sell tickets at higher prices, but no one historically wants to buy them. The product has been bad, and Minnesotans have many other options to spend their entertainment dollars on (other professional sports, Gopher sports, etc.). We can hope that winning will continue to bring back fans, and it would raise the value of the franchise, especially with a new arena. But can we keep them? Minnesotans have shown post-KG that they don’t stick with the team on down years, and that will always be factored into the valuation of the franchise.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#66 » by thinktank » Sat Jun 8, 2024 2:55 pm

This team isn’t moving.

What needs to move on is the focus on moving.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#67 » by younggunsmn » Sun Jun 9, 2024 7:12 am

thinktank wrote:
Finally, regarding “freezing cold and icy roads which makes people not want to leave their houses all winter”—the fact that Minnesota is the coldest states is now becoming a selling point due to the climate crisis.

There’s a major, major bubble that’s going to eventually pop. Minnesota stands to gain when it does. #1 state best equipped to handle climate change? Minnesota.


I can't even begin a conversation with someone who holds these kinds of views.
Minnesota is going to be the place to be. Because climate change gonna wipe out everywhere else.
My word. You really do live up to your username.

Minnesotans spend their money HERE in the summer and ELSEWHERE in the winter if they can afford it.
That's just what we do.
You ever tried to bundle up your family and go anywhere in January?
It's not fun.

Fact is that with a one vote majority, one party in this state passed every extreme idea it had in its platform, even though 80 of 87 counties in the state voted for the other party.
Inlcuded was a "voter reform" that gave drivers licenses to non-citizens and forcibly registers every voter who either turns 18 or gets a drivers license.
Pretty much giving cover for endless ballot box stuffing (that's the point).
If you're not concerned about lax integrity in a general election because it helps your side, you should be VERY concerned about it in primary elections, which is what allows the same grifting scumbags to sit at the trough for life.

I have a few engineer friends and relatives in some of those great "minnesota companies" you hear about pretty worried about the future of their companies in this state.
Minnesota is becoming a very costly place to do business.
California has a huge coastline which gives it a geographic stranglehold on the port and shipping industry that companies can't get around. As a state we can't afford to alienate business in the same way.
Minnesota was a centrist state for a very long time where the minority party in divided government kept the worst impulses of the other side from coming to pass. That went out the window completely last year.


Housing prices are through the roof not because of any intrinsic value or uptick in economic activity, but because of
1. the explosion of new people looking for housing in this country
2. the runaway inflation caused by both parties spending like drunken sailors, not even pretending to care about paying for ANYTHING anymore with tax revenue, they are now just openly mass taxing you with inflation (which is the direct result of the federal reserve printing money to purchase the government's newly created debt) like they did on a much smaller scale pre-2008, and went thermonuclear with after covid. .

There are a small few things they could do like putting a halt to companies and investment interests buying up houses just to hold and leverage as collateral, but there aren't enough principled people in government to fill a church pew, and there would also be downward side effects to that if it wasn't done right that would make those same investments interests quit lending money to people.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#68 » by younggunsmn » Sun Jun 9, 2024 7:26 am

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:Why would a new team compete in NY, and build an arena where it’s expensive? Don’t you think people said this about BRK?
Why would they let owners leave the lucrative MIN market? Why did they let owners leave SEA, for tiny OKC? Because the owner wanted to. And MIN hasn’t been very lucrative, while I read that NY’s huge population and economic base would be a better revenue generator than Vegas and potentially SEA. Hopefully the public gets behind this new team, but last year they had revenues $100 million less than the average NBA team.

And Zygi Wilf might still move the Vikings to New York where he's from...

I don't know if you've looked at a map recently, but East Rutherford, NJ, is basically right next door to Brooklyn and within the New York City market. It'd be like moving from St. Paul to Minneapolis, not like moving from Minneapolis to New York City....


Like moving from St Paul to Minneapolis but like driving from St. Paul to Duluth when you wanna go somewhere..
MN metro and NYC are not the same.

The Wilf are primarily real estate magnates who bought the team looking to make money, and they are doing exactly that with everything they have built in Eagan.

The NFL is a totally different ballgame with a much bigger fanbase and a better business model.
Their costs and revenues are much more stable and predictable.
They don't split national and local TV revenue where big markets make big bucks and little markets struggle, all revenue is national and split evenly among the teams, and they aren't caught up in this regional sports network mess.
They also have a Hard salary cap and different contract structures where mainly only the signing bonuses and current years salary get guaranteed for all but the big stars.
There isn't any competitive advantage to a big market because you can't spend your way to a better team.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#69 » by thinktank » Sun Jun 9, 2024 12:58 pm

younggunsmn wrote:
thinktank wrote:
Finally, regarding “freezing cold and icy roads which makes people not want to leave their houses all winter”—the fact that Minnesota is the coldest states is now becoming a selling point due to the climate crisis.

There’s a major, major bubble that’s going to eventually pop. Minnesota stands to gain when it does. #1 state best equipped to handle climate change? Minnesota.


I can't even begin a conversation with someone who holds these kinds of views.
Minnesota is going to be the place to be. Because climate change gonna wipe out everywhere else.
My word. You really do live up to your username.

Minnesotans spend their money HERE in the summer and ELSEWHERE in the winter if they can afford it.
That's just what we do.
You ever tried to bundle up your family and go anywhere in January?
It's not fun.

Fact is that with a one vote majority, one party in this state passed every extreme idea it had in its platform, even though 80 of 87 counties in the state voted for the other party.
Inlcuded was a "voter reform" that gave drivers licenses to non-citizens and forcibly registers every voter who either turns 18 or gets a drivers license.
Pretty much giving cover for endless ballot box stuffing (that's the point).
If you're not concerned about lax integrity in a general election because it helps your side, you should be VERY concerned about it in primary elections, which is what allows the same grifting scumbags to sit at the trough for life.

I have a few engineer friends and relatives in some of those great "minnesota companies" you hear about pretty worried about the future of their companies in this state.
Minnesota is becoming a very costly place to do business.
California has a huge coastline which gives it a geographic stranglehold on the port and shipping industry that companies can't get around. As a state we can't afford to alienate business in the same way.
Minnesota was a centrist state for a very long time where the minority party in divided government kept the worst impulses of the other side from coming to pass. That went out the window completely last year.


Housing prices are through the roof not because of any intrinsic value or uptick in economic activity, but because of
1. the explosion of new people looking for housing in this country
2. the runaway inflation caused by both parties spending like drunken sailors, not even pretending to care about paying for ANYTHING anymore with tax revenue, they are now just openly mass taxing you with inflation (which is the direct result of the federal reserve printing money to purchase the government's newly created debt) like they did on a much smaller scale pre-2008, and went thermonuclear with after covid. .

There are a small few things they could do like putting a halt to companies and investment interests buying up houses just to hold and leverage as collateral, but there aren't enough principled people in government to fill a church pew, and there would also be downward side effects to that if it wasn't done right that would make those same investments interests quit lending money to people.


If you live here you should move! :lol:

(I never said “everywhere else will be wiped out”—do better, fake news guy. More ethics is what you need—or comprehension maybe.)

People have tried to spell out to the Taylor bobos what the truths are but if you can’t listen then oh well. On to another beautiful Sunday in Minnesota!
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#70 » by Colbinii » Sun Jun 9, 2024 4:01 pm

younggunsmn wrote:
thinktank wrote:
Finally, regarding “freezing cold and icy roads which makes people not want to leave their houses all winter”—the fact that Minnesota is the coldest states is now becoming a selling point due to the climate crisis.

There’s a major, major bubble that’s going to eventually pop. Minnesota stands to gain when it does. #1 state best equipped to handle climate change? Minnesota.


Fact is that with a one vote majority, one party in this state passed every extreme idea it had in its platform, even though 80 of 87 counties in the state voted for the other party.


Why would this be more important than actual population?

Some counties have significantly less people than other counties. Does that mean each vote from an individual in a smaller county is worth more than an individuals vote in a more densely populated county? That doesn't seem fair.

Inlcuded was a "voter reform" that gave drivers licenses to non-citizens and forcibly registers every voter who either turns 18 or gets a drivers license.


I think if someone is living in Minnesota illegally, yet paying taxes and having an insured vehicle, they should be allowed to drive on the roads legally. They are, after all, paying for the roads indirectly with their taxes, yet don't get to reap many benefits a legal citizen earns.


Minnesota is becoming a very costly place to do business.


Yup, most states are.

Minnesota was a centrist state for a very long time where the minority party in divided government kept the worst impulses of the other side from coming to pass. That went out the window completely last year.


It is important to remember the differences in Wisconsin and Minnesota's business growth over the past 70 years. Post WWII, one state veered more Red, one state veered more Blue, and one state has significantly better job forecasts [median wage and employment], education, tax-breaks, ect. One state has

Minnesota has 15 Fortune 500 Companies. For all the complaining your "friends" do, they are really missing the past 70 years of economic growth and stability this state has, primarily on the back of "extreme ideas from its platform" :crazy:

Wisconsin has half as many Fortune 500 Companies, yet is far closer to the economic hub of Chicago :wink:
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#71 » by shrink » Sun Jun 9, 2024 4:55 pm

Colbinii wrote:I think if someone is living in Minnesota illegally, yet paying taxes and having an insured vehicle, they should be allowed to drive on the roads legally. They are, after all, paying for the roads indirectly with their taxes, yet don't get to reap many benefits a legal citizen earns

Can we all send our kids to do break into your house to do their online k-12 classes then? :wink:
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#72 » by Colbinii » Sun Jun 9, 2024 4:59 pm

shrink wrote:
Colbinii wrote:I think if someone is living in Minnesota illegally, yet paying taxes and having an insured vehicle, they should be allowed to drive on the roads legally. They are, after all, paying for the roads indirectly with their taxes, yet don't get to reap many benefits a legal citizen earns

Can we all send our kids to do break into your house to do their online k-12 classes then? :wink:


Huh?
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#73 » by shrink » Sun Jun 9, 2024 5:04 pm

So I have been challenging my longheld definition of a “good basketball market.”

I have said for two decades that with the Twin Cities underlying finances and demographics, this could be a good market if the team put out a good product. Build it and people will come.

But look at the league. Every team draws fans/money when they have a good team. But many draw fans/money when the team is bad. Knicks and Lakers always sell out, whether the team is good or bad, and at high prices. Teams like UTA and OKC are a third the size of us, so ticket prices are low, but they always sell out too, good or bad.

The Twin Cities fans have had ticket prices that are far lower than their market size would suggest, and still Minnesotans don’t buy them and go to the games in lean years. At best, the vast majority of the “fans” are fairweather. Maybe this is semantics, but is this area really a good basketball market without enough loyal fans supporting them every season? Would a new arena suddenly create fan loyalty in the down years?
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#74 » by shrink » Sun Jun 9, 2024 5:06 pm

Colbinii wrote:
shrink wrote:
Colbinii wrote:I think if someone is living in Minnesota illegally, yet paying taxes and having an insured vehicle, they should be allowed to drive on the roads legally. They are, after all, paying for the roads indirectly with their taxes, yet don't get to reap many benefits a legal citizen earns

Can we all send our kids to do break into your house to do their online k-12 classes then? :wink:


Huh?

Is the analogy too clunky? Illegal immigrants and trespassing kids are both breaking laws to be where they are.

These tax-paying illegal immigrants and tax-paying kids (well parents), are both using government services in places where they are trespassing.

If your argument is, “well, the kids could stay home and use the services,” wouldn’t the analogy be that there are also roads that illegals could drive on in their own country of origin?
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#75 » by Worm Guts » Sun Jun 9, 2024 5:52 pm

1. Whether or not illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote, it’s currently against the rules. If you want people to accept election results, then everyone needs to play by the rules.

2. As a mod, this really isn’t an acceptable path for this thread to be going.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#76 » by Domejandro » Sun Jun 9, 2024 6:20 pm

I don’t expect the team to move, but I do think we see an attempt to shake down taxpayers in the near future.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#77 » by Colbinii » Sun Jun 9, 2024 7:05 pm

shrink wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
shrink wrote:Can we all send our kids to do break into your house to do their online k-12 classes then? :wink:


Huh?

Is the analogy too clunky? Illegal immigrants and trespassing kids are both breaking laws to be where they are.


Sure, but one is trespassing on personal property, one isn't.

These tax-paying illegal immigrants and tax-paying kids (well parents), are both using government services in places where they are trespassing.


Yup, except there is a big difference between trespassing on someone's personal property and simply living illegally in the United States.

If your argument is, “well, the kids could stay home and use the services,” wouldn’t the analogy be that there are also roads that illegals could drive on in their own country of origin?


Sure, they could stay in their country with higher murder rates, significantly worse living conditions, worse educational services, worse healthcare [US isn't dead last in Healthcare :lol: ], non-democratic government, ect.

There should be clearer and more effective methods for people to immigrate to the United States, but when someone has been here for decades and paying taxes, I and many law makers believe they have a leg to stand on for becoming citizens.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#78 » by Colbinii » Sun Jun 9, 2024 7:07 pm

Worm Guts wrote:1. Whether or not illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote, it’s currently against the rules. If you want people to accept election results, then everyone needs to play by the rules.


Illegal immigrants definitely shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Felon's is an interesting case for allowing them to vote. Personally, if they can't vote, they probably shouldn't be allowed to be a politician at any level (Local, State or Federal) or be on a ballot.

It's currently a states right issue [Ironic, right?] whether a state can have a Felon on the Ballot or not.
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#79 » by Klomp » Sun Jun 9, 2024 7:59 pm

Yikes, this thread.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
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Re: Michael Bloomberg Joins Lore/Rodriguez Ownership Group 

Post#80 » by thinktank » Sun Jun 9, 2024 8:47 pm

The market size / valuation conversation: We went down that road before in the last thread.

Teams make money and lose money year to year, but the value of the team always goes up like crazy.

“Wolves are always losing money!”

Taylor makes 1.2 billion on this sale

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