The PJ Dozier Thread

[minimus]

Maybe we have here guys from Europe who went to Partizan Euroleague games, but I have learned from my experience watching European basketball is that is much more physical with high level coaching and obviously less player talent. I might be mistaken but I always have feeling that it is opposite of g-league games, at least it is opposite of Iowa Wolves games. It is even more strong contrast with Partizan games where you play under enormous pressure in comparison with g-league:

- stadium is always full and loud as hell
- on tribune fans use drums, signs etc
- basically you hear nothing
- fans dont need entertaining shows, they ARE the show

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I am very intrigued what this experience meant to PJ, I hope one of MIN journalist will ask him this question. This might be the difference between Dozier and Moore: both have similar physical tools, but Wendell completely lost confidence and once he got the ball our offense looked like headless chicken. I feel like with PJ, NAW and Clarke around Dillingham TC wants to create supportive structure that can help him in first NBA year.

P.S. Saying this I understand that PJ Dozier is just a 13-14 player in rotation and can be cut in every moment

[KGdaBom]

You seem to be spiraling to me.

Not the only one who thinks we need more PG depth. Not the only one who doesn’t get the Dozier signing. Not the only one not confident that under sized 19 year old college bench player can come in from the cold and play backup PG for 20+ minutes a night for a top 3 team in the west. Not the only one who thinks having NAW as the 3rd string PG instead of actual PG is a bad ******* idea. Are all of us spiraling?

How many teams in the NBA are going to thrive if their 3rd PG is forced to play significant minutes during the season? None. Spiraling? Maybe not quite but you sure seem to be circling the drain.

Connelly identified our biggest need for a long-term PG knowing we had the smallest of windows for this opportunity and then went out and grabbed the best PG prospect in this Draft. He then added the guy I begged for in TSJ who I expect to contribute immediately.

Connelly is easily a Top 5 GM in the NBA.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

Where you and I see great cause for excitement W4L sees doom and gloom.

[Slim Tubby]

Not the only one who thinks we need more PG depth. Not the only one who doesn’t get the Dozier signing. Not the only one not confident that under sized 19 year old college bench player can come in from the cold and play backup PG for 20+ minutes a night for a top 3 team in the west. Not the only one who thinks having NAW as the 3rd string PG instead of actual PG is a bad ******* idea. Are all of us spiraling?

How many teams in the NBA are going to thrive if their 3rd PG is forced to play significant minutes during the season? None. Spiraling? Maybe not quite but you sure seem to be circling the drain.

Connelly identified our biggest need for a long-term PG knowing we had the smallest of windows for this opportunity and then went out and grabbed the best PG prospect in this Draft. He then added the guy I begged for in TSJ who I expect to contribute immediately.

Connelly is easily a Top 5 GM in the NBA.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

Where you and I see great cause for excitement W4L sees doom and gloom.

Life jackets only become a concern AFTER the boat has sunk.

I couldn't be happier landing Dillingham and watching him grow into our PG of the future.

A guy must really, really be looking for something to complain about with this team, and our GM, if the team's greatest roster concern going into a season is a 3rd PG.

Go Wolves! Go Connelly! Go Dilly!

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

[winforlose]

How many teams in the NBA are going to thrive if their 3rd PG is forced to play significant minutes during the season? None. Spiraling? Maybe not quite but you sure seem to be circling the drain.

Connelly identified our biggest need for a long-term PG knowing we had the smallest of windows for this opportunity and then went out and grabbed the best PG prospect in this Draft. He then added the guy I begged for in TSJ who I expect to contribute immediately.

Connelly is easily a Top 5 GM in the NBA.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

Where you and I see great cause for excitement W4L sees doom and gloom.

Life jackets only become a concern AFTER the boat has sunk.

I couldn't be happier landing Dillingham and watching him grow into our PG of the future.

A guy must really, really be looking for something to complain about with this team, and our GM, if the team's greatest roster concern going into a season is a 3rd PG.

Go Wolves! Go Connelly! Go Dilly!

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

lol. If you’re gonna take a shot at me at least be honest about it. My greatest concern is not that we don’t have a 3rd string PG, it’s that Dillingham isn’t ready to be our 2nd string PG. Can you remember a 19 year old rookie PG that got 20+ minutes per game and had a solid impact on day 1? What are we even saying success for Dillingham looks like. Is PPG, APG, positive +/-? That is of course to say nothing of whether TSJ is ready to step in and play meaningful minutes, or Miller, or Minott. The honest conversation includes planning for our guys missing games. If we are 8 deep with Ingles as number 8 and have 4 question marks at 9-12, doesn’t it then make sense not to waste spots 13-14 with a TC guy who is not an NBA player in Dozier, and a mascot in Garza?

[BlacJacMac]

Where you and I see great cause for excitement W4L sees doom and gloom.

Life jackets only become a concern AFTER the boat has sunk.

I couldn't be happier landing Dillingham and watching him grow into our PG of the future.

A guy must really, really be looking for something to complain about with this team, and our GM, if the team's greatest roster concern going into a season is a 3rd PG.

Go Wolves! Go Connelly! Go Dilly!

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

lol. If you’re gonna take a shot at me at least be honest about it. My greatest concern is not that we don’t have a 3rd string PG, it’s that Dillingham isn’t ready to be our 2nd string PG. Can you remember a 19 year old rookie PG that got 20+ minutes per game and had a solid impact on day 1? What are we even saying success for Dillingham looks like. Is PPG, APG, positive +/-? That is of course to say nothing of whether TSJ is ready to step in and play meaningful minutes, or Miller, or Minott. The honest conversation includes planning for our guys missing games. If we are 8 deep with Ingles as number 8 and have 4 question marks at 9-12, doesn’t it then make sense not to waste spots 13-14 with a TC guy who is not an NBA player in Dozier, and a mascot in Garza?

It's amazing to me how by losing SloMo (who you hated) and Morris (who you loved) we went from, and I quote, "By far the best team in the league" to what sounds like we should be lucky to make the Play-In...

[winforlose]

Life jackets only become a concern AFTER the boat has sunk.

I couldn't be happier landing Dillingham and watching him grow into our PG of the future.

A guy must really, really be looking for something to complain about with this team, and our GM, if the team's greatest roster concern going into a season is a 3rd PG.

Go Wolves! Go Connelly! Go Dilly!

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

lol. If you’re gonna take a shot at me at least be honest about it. My greatest concern is not that we don’t have a 3rd string PG, it’s that Dillingham isn’t ready to be our 2nd string PG. Can you remember a 19 year old rookie PG that got 20+ minutes per game and had a solid impact on day 1? What are we even saying success for Dillingham looks like. Is PPG, APG, positive +/-? That is of course to say nothing of whether TSJ is ready to step in and play meaningful minutes, or Miller, or Minott. The honest conversation includes planning for our guys missing games. If we are 8 deep with Ingles as number 8 and have 4 question marks at 9-12, doesn’t it then make sense not to waste spots 13-14 with a TC guy who is not an NBA player in Dozier, and a mascot in Garza?

It's amazing to me how by losing SloMo (who you hated) and Morris (who you loved) we went from, and I quote, "By far the best team in the league" to what sounds like we should be lucky to make the Play-In...

It’s amazing to me how you still ignore what I post even when I spelled it out above. I didn’t say we are lucky to make the play in. I said we have a solid 1-7. Perhaps the best. 1-7 in the league. I didn’t say we are for sure doomed, I said I have concerns. I explained them very clearly, we lack a PG2 and we are too committed to rookies being rotation worthy. I explained the urgency in other posts when I explained we can afford 2 years in the 2nd apron and the tax before the penalties start to make it not worth it and force us to ramp down. I even named guys like Beasley and JMAC who could replace guys like Luka and PJ to make us immediately better and more complete. Yet somehow my position is unreasonable? Somehow to express displeasure in signing guys I think are not NBA players I am chicken little? Saying every team needs a competent backup PG for a deep playoff run makes me unreasonable. Or saying that rookie PGs don’t normally play PG2 for deep playoff runs makes me a pessimist. Please help me out then, name 3 rookies who came in at 19 and played PG2 for a contender, set my mind at ease.

If you want to criticize what I am saying that is fine, but at least have the decency to use what I actually communicate to do it.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Winforlose makes a valid point in terms of depth building. Both PJ Dozier and Garza are waste of space type or signings when alot of our fringe depth guys are raw youngsters who might take time to get going for a contending team.


Should have signed more NBA ready type minimum depth names instead of Garza and Dozier imo.



We all seen how our team looks like when Conley is out and it ain't pretty. We should prepare for that contingency better.

[Klomp]

Honestly, if you want a skill set comparison, the fully realized version of Dozier is probably Caris LeVert.

[Klomp]

Winforlose makes a valid point in terms of depth building. Both PJ Dozier and Garza are waste of space type or signings when alot of our fringe depth guys are raw youngsters who might take time to get going for a contending team.


Should have signed more NBA ready type minimum depth names instead of Garza and Dozier imo.



We all seen how our team looks like when Conley is out and it ain't pretty. We should prepare for that contingency better.

They both know and are fits for the system. That's more important than any sort of "NBA ready" phrasing.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[Worm Guts]

Winforlose makes a valid point in terms of depth building. Both PJ Dozier and Garza are waste of space type or signings when alot of our fringe depth guys are raw youngsters who might take time to get going for a contending team.


Should have signed more NBA ready type minimum depth names instead of Garza and Dozier imo.



We all seen how our team looks like when Conley is out and it ain't pretty. We should prepare for that contingency better.

While I probably would have preferred to sign a true point guard, our backup point guard during the playoffs was NAW. We had Morris and McLaughlin and they didn’t play, so this idea that not signing a vet minimum player at that position is the end of the world is over the top.

[KGdaBom]

lol. If you’re gonna take a shot at me at least be honest about it. My greatest concern is not that we don’t have a 3rd string PG, it’s that Dillingham isn’t ready to be our 2nd string PG. Can you remember a 19 year old rookie PG that got 20+ minutes per game and had a solid impact on day 1? What are we even saying success for Dillingham looks like. Is PPG, APG, positive +/-? That is of course to say nothing of whether TSJ is ready to step in and play meaningful minutes, or Miller, or Minott. The honest conversation includes planning for our guys missing games. If we are 8 deep with Ingles as number 8 and have 4 question marks at 9-12, doesn’t it then make sense not to waste spots 13-14 with a TC guy who is not an NBA player in Dozier, and a mascot in Garza?

It's amazing to me how by losing SloMo (who you hated) and Morris (who you loved) we went from, and I quote, "By far the best team in the league" to what sounds like we should be lucky to make the Play-In...

It’s amazing to me how you still ignore what I post even when I spelled it out above. I didn’t say we are lucky to make the play in. I said we have a solid 1-7. Perhaps the best. 1-7 in the league. I didn’t say we are for sure doomed, I said I have concerns. I explained them very clearly, we lack a PG2 and we are too committed to rookies being rotation worthy. I explained the urgency in other posts when I explained we can afford 2 years in the 2nd apron and the tax before the penalties start to make it not worth it and force us to ramp down. I even named guys like Beasley and JMAC who could replace guys like Luka and PJ to make us immediately better and more complete. Yet somehow my position is unreasonable? Somehow to express displeasure in signing guys I think are not NBA players I am chicken little? Saying every team needs a competent backup PG for a deep playoff run makes me unreasonable. Or saying that rookie PGs don’t normally play PG2 for deep playoff runs makes me a pessimist. Please help me out then, name 3 rookies who came in at 19 and played PG2 for a contender, set my mind at ease.

If you want to criticize what I am saying that is fine, but at least have the decency to use what I actually communicate to do it.

If Dilly isn't PG2 we made a horrific mistake. I don't think we did.

[Shaka_Zulu]

It's not end of the world, but NAW was bad as backup point, like bad ball handling and nonexistent playmaking. He shouldn't be doing that again. And have a true alternative instead.


This time we banking on the premier talents of Dillingham as PG2, so I get it, but still a rookie, so an emergency depth PG wouldn't have hurt.


Instead of getting Dozier who is yet another wing who can defend but adds no offense. Not a real PG.

[Klomp]

It's not end of the world, but NAW was bad as backup point, like bad ball handling and nonexistent playmaking. He shouldn't be doing that again. And have a true alternative instead.


This time we banking on the premier talents of Dillingham as PG2, so I get it, but still a rookie, so an emergency depth PG wouldn't have hurt.


Instead of getting Dozier who is yet another wing who can defend but adds no offense. Not a real PG.

How many "real PGs" are left in the league. Not that many. There's a reason the ones you may list are still available on the market too.

[Shaka_Zulu]

It's not end of the world, but NAW was bad as backup point, like bad ball handling and nonexistent playmaking. He shouldn't be doing that again. And have a true alternative instead.


This time we banking on the premier talents of Dillingham as PG2, so I get it, but still a rookie, so an emergency depth PG wouldn't have hurt.


Instead of getting Dozier who is yet another wing who can defend but adds no offense. Not a real PG.

How many "real PGs" are left in the league. Not that many. There's a reason the ones you may list are still available on the market too.

Not really, Delon Wright and Alec Burks were easily gettable for the minimum before Bucks and Heat picked them up. More useful experienced capable depth, and versatile players too. Especially Wright.



I expect absolutely nothing from Dozier. And Garza getting any non garbage minutes for us will be a worry.

[winforlose]

It's amazing to me how by losing SloMo (who you hated) and Morris (who you loved) we went from, and I quote, "By far the best team in the league" to what sounds like we should be lucky to make the Play-In...

It’s amazing to me how you still ignore what I post even when I spelled it out above. I didn’t say we are lucky to make the play in. I said we have a solid 1-7. Perhaps the best. 1-7 in the league. I didn’t say we are for sure doomed, I said I have concerns. I explained them very clearly, we lack a PG2 and we are too committed to rookies being rotation worthy. I explained the urgency in other posts when I explained we can afford 2 years in the 2nd apron and the tax before the penalties start to make it not worth it and force us to ramp down. I even named guys like Beasley and JMAC who could replace guys like Luka and PJ to make us immediately better and more complete. Yet somehow my position is unreasonable? Somehow to express displeasure in signing guys I think are not NBA players I am chicken little? Saying every team needs a competent backup PG for a deep playoff run makes me unreasonable. Or saying that rookie PGs don’t normally play PG2 for deep playoff runs makes me a pessimist. Please help me out then, name 3 rookies who came in at 19 and played PG2 for a contender, set my mind at ease.

If you want to criticize what I am saying that is fine, but at least have the decency to use what I actually communicate to do it.

If Dilly isn't PG2 we made a horrific mistake. I don't think we did.

That is like saying if you don’t love a song the first time you hear it then you will never love it. What if Dilly is the PG of the future, a future all star, and a future hall of famer. But, at the same time needs a year in the G to develop before he is ready to be PG2. PG is the hardest position for a rookie to play. They need to understand our scheme, opposing defensive schemes, have the pace of the game down, ect… My point is that forcing Dilly to be PG2 at this point is too much risk. Start him at PG3 and let him promote when he is ready. This is not a knock on him, but a legit concern about his NBA readiness when he is undersized (weight more than height,) untested, and being asked to play for a contender.

[Klomp]

Not really, Delon Wright and Alec Burks were easily gettable for the minimum before Bucks and Heat picked them up. More useful experienced capable depth, and versatile players too. Especially Wright.

I'm guessing they are both waiting for offers more than the minimum. And even if they settle for the minimum, no guarantee that they'd decide to do it here. Yeah it'd be great if they did, but it's no sure thing. And if those guys are "true PGs" in your mind, then I'd argue that so are Dillingham, NAW, Dozier, etc. There's really no difference in terms of initiating the offense.

[Worm Guts]

It's not end of the world, but NAW was bad as backup point, like bad ball handling and nonexistent playmaking. He shouldn't be doing that again. And have a true alternative instead.

Regardless of how any of us feel about it, it’s clear that Finch prefers using NAW in that role over vet min caliber true point guards.

[KGdaBom]

It’s amazing to me how you still ignore what I post even when I spelled it out above. I didn’t say we are lucky to make the play in. I said we have a solid 1-7. Perhaps the best. 1-7 in the league. I didn’t say we are for sure doomed, I said I have concerns. I explained them very clearly, we lack a PG2 and we are too committed to rookies being rotation worthy. I explained the urgency in other posts when I explained we can afford 2 years in the 2nd apron and the tax before the penalties start to make it not worth it and force us to ramp down. I even named guys like Beasley and JMAC who could replace guys like Luka and PJ to make us immediately better and more complete. Yet somehow my position is unreasonable? Somehow to express displeasure in signing guys I think are not NBA players I am chicken little? Saying every team needs a competent backup PG for a deep playoff run makes me unreasonable. Or saying that rookie PGs don’t normally play PG2 for deep playoff runs makes me a pessimist. Please help me out then, name 3 rookies who came in at 19 and played PG2 for a contender, set my mind at ease.

If you want to criticize what I am saying that is fine, but at least have the decency to use what I actually communicate to do it.

If Dilly isn't PG2 we made a horrific mistake. I don't think we did.

That is like saying if you don’t love a song the first time you hear it then you will never love it. What if Dilly is the PG of the future, a future all star, and a future hall of famer. But, at the same time needs a year in the G to develop before he is ready to be PG2. PG is the hardest position for a rookie to play. They need to understand our scheme, opposing defensive schemes, have the pace of the game down, ect… My point is that forcing Dilly to be PG2 at this point is too much risk. Start him at PG3 and let him promote when he is ready. This is not a knock on him, but a legit concern about his NBA readiness when he is undersized (weight more than height,) untested, and being asked to play for a contender.

I stand by my statement. If he's not good enough to be our PG2 this very season he will never be any of those good things you talk about in the future. We won't be forcing him to be anything if he's anywhere near the pick we used on him. 8th picks in the draft are never anything 3. There was and is NO OPTION whatsoever for PG2. Not Monte Morris, Naw, Dennis Smith Jr. Connelly didn't miss on getting our PG2. Dilly was the only option.

[winforlose]

If Dilly isn't PG2 we made a horrific mistake. I don't think we did.

That is like saying if you don’t love a song the first time you hear it then you will never love it. What if Dilly is the PG of the future, a future all star, and a future hall of famer. But, at the same time needs a year in the G to develop before he is ready to be PG2. PG is the hardest position for a rookie to play. They need to understand our scheme, opposing defensive schemes, have the pace of the game down, ect… My point is that forcing Dilly to be PG2 at this point is too much risk. Start him at PG3 and let him promote when he is ready. This is not a knock on him, but a legit concern about his NBA readiness when he is undersized (weight more than height,) untested, and being asked to play for a contender.

I stand by my statement. If he's not good enough to be our PG2 this very season he will never be any of those good things you talk about in the future. We won't be forcing him to be anything if he's anywhere near the pick we used on him. 8th picks in the draft are never anything 3. There was and is NO OPTION whatsoever for PG2. Not Monte Morris, Naw, Dennis Smith Jr. Connelly didn't miss on getting our PG2. Dilly was the only option.

Your telling me that any time a good team owns or trades for a bad teams pick they always immediately place the pick in the rotation? You are also telling me someone who has a rough rookie year will never amount to anything. Off the top of my Jimmy Butler is exactly the guy who is nothing special who becomes something special.