Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[urinesane]

Totally fair. Was just trying to point out it was a fair deal if that’s the way a team wanted to go. I would also say, some teams play the youth game for awhile.

I also think the Wolves would do better off breaking up KAT and Gobert. I don’t personally believe those two are a good match, I think you should move one or the other to get the best out of either one… but that’s just my opinion.

Congrats, DusterBuster, you just made urinesane's foe list.

Any poster suggesting a Towns trade must "enjoy being miserable following this team and whether it's subconscious or not are looking for reasons to sabotage it."

Nice! But fr, just my opinion based off what I saw from them this season. Neither guy seemed comfortable playing next to one other, but played better without the other. I heard KAT on a podcast talking about being caught off guard by the trade and that he wouldn’t ever play C again… plus with Ant and Gobert getting closer and KAT seemingly left out from the trio… I donno, doesn’t seem like a great fit from skills or personality / lockerroom… but looking at it from a few thousand miles away so wtf do I know.

Some important context though (that most fans outside of a certain % that follow the Wolves closely may not be aware of) is that Rudy came into training camp injured (he was rundown from playing this summer with France), KAT lost a bunch of weight due to an illness and came into training camp not able to do much, AND DLo never seemed to have any intention of fitting in with Rudy (before his injury, KAT was the only guy outside of Anderson looking to use Gobert in an effective way).

Then when KAT came back he was not in regular season shape and they were playing basically playoff games every night (and he did surprisingly well all things considered). They simply haven't had the time (nor worked out a system and implemented) to make the most out of the KAT/Rudy pairing, though against GSW and OKC they definitely showed the potential is there.

Conley is a major factor and is night and day difference when it comes to a fit with this current roster. DLo was a bad fit with the roster as it was constructed and was never willing/able to make use of it. Conley has shown already in his short time in MN that he can use KAT/Gobert much more effectively.

I'm not saying it will for sure work, but I don't think it's fair to say it for sure won't work based on this last season, and I'd rather run it back and get more info (plus there's little chance that KAT/Gobert have worse seasons than last season) before trading away a star player still in their prime years for more potential (plus, they will almost certainly play better next season and increase their trade values).

[urinesane]

Totally fair. Was just trying to point out it was a fair deal if that’s the way a team wanted to go. I would also say, some teams play the youth game for awhile.

I also think the Wolves would do better off breaking up KAT and Gobert. I don’t personally believe those two are a good match, I think you should move one or the other to get the best out of either one… but that’s just my opinion.

Congrats, DusterBuster, you just made urinesane's foe list.

Any poster suggesting a Towns trade must "enjoy being miserable following this team and whether it's subconscious or not are looking for reasons to sabotage it."

Another stinker from Baseline81. Unlike you, DusterBuster has been open minded and isn't just here to talk at us. He seems reasonable and willing to have an actual conversation. I hope he feels free to post here anytime.

[minimus]

One serious question: if we somehow get Cameron Johnson on full MLE (or in sign-n-trade, or we use Naz Reid trade later), can he resolve our problems in offense? He is an elite shooter, so we can play him with defensive minded players such as MAW, Anderson, Gobert

Then trade Prince for Monte Morris

Gobert/Towns/Garza
Towns/Anderson/Johnson
MCD/Johnson/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Morris/JMac

If not, I would try to steal Watanabe who is 49-44-72 shooter.

[urinesane]

One serious question: if we somehow get Cameron Johnson on full MLE (or in sign-n-trade, or we use Naz Reid trade later), can he resolve our problems in offense? He is an elite shooter, so we can play him with defensive minded players such as MAW, Anderson, Gobert

Then trade Prince for Monte Morris

Gobert/Towns/Garza
Towns/Anderson/Johnson
MCD/Johnson/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Morris/JMac

I honestly believe that with a healthy KAT and Gobert coming into the offseason, and the data the coaching staff has to work with this offseason, PLUS a vet in Conley that knows how to maximize Gobert (and will have time to teach others) the offense isn't nearly as big of an issue as it seems from last season.

Just think of what we will have (hopefully if nothing goes terribly wrong this summer).

+1 more productive offseason for Ant.
+1 more productive offseason for Jaden
+1 offseason where Gobert has something to prove (and a chance to get healthy if he skips summer ball)
+1 offseason where KAT has something to prove (and a chance to get his calf/body into better shape coming into the season).

4 of our 5 starters will be coming in with a full offseason and a chip on their shoulders... the other guy is MIke Conley (who is as solid as they get). Plus, the coaches will have a fire under their asses this offseason and you bet they'll be coming to training camp with a different mentality, intensity, and gameplan than last season.

Run it back and this team is already way better than last season from the very first day of training camp this year (barring terrible luck).

[minimus]

One serious question: if we somehow get Cameron Johnson on full MLE (or in sign-n-trade, or we use Naz Reid trade later), can he resolve our problems in offense? He is an elite shooter, so we can play him with defensive minded players such as MAW, Anderson, Gobert

Then trade Prince for Monte Morris

Gobert/Towns/Garza
Towns/Anderson/Johnson
MCD/Johnson/Minott
Edwards/NAW/Moore
Conley/Morris/JMac

I honestly believe that with a healthy KAT and Gobert coming into the offseason, and the data the coaching staff has to work with this offseason, PLUS a vet in Conley that knows how to maximize Gobert (and will have time to teach others) the offense isn't nearly as big of an issue as it seems from last season.

Just think of what we will have (hopefully if nothing goes terribly wrong this summer).

+1 more productive offseason for Ant.
+1 more productive offseason for Jaden
+1 offseason where Gobert has something to prove (and a chance to get healthy if he skips summer ball)
+1 offseason where KAT has something to prove (and a chance to get his calf/body into better shape coming into the season).

4 of our 5 starters will be coming in with a full offseason and a chip on their shoulders... the other guy is MIke Conley (who is as solid as they get). Plus, the coaches will have a fire under their asses this offseason and you bet they'll be coming to training camp with a different mentality, intensity, and gameplan than last season.

Run it back and this team is already way better than last season from the very first day of training camp this year (barring terrible luck).

I understand what you are saying. However, I think a shooter will help to make this transition smoother, faster. We need a shooter when we play spread pick-n-roll, we need a shooter to use as advantage rim gravity of Gobert, Ant and Towns. Finch tried Forbes, Ryan, Rivers this year, but a tall guy like Cameron Johnson would be unstoppable. Also I understand an importance of Reid. So what about Yuta Watanabe?

[moss_is_1]

Shooting is for sure a huge need. Replace Nowell/Jmac with an elite shooter.

[guest81]

Lamelo and Hayward for towns?

[Mamba4Goat]

Shooting is for sure a huge need. Replace Nowell/Jmac with an elite shooter.

Max Strus on the MLE makes sense for this.

[shrink]

I just wanted to remind people that if we replace Mike Conley with a new PG, there will be a learning curve while he adapts to playing with Gobert. Mike Conley was a very experienced PG and had played with good bigs before, but when he joined the Jazz, he said it took him a year to learn how to feed Rudy. Russell may not have been trying, but he’s a good passer that never figured it out, and Ant was completely baffled.

If we add a PG, I would lean to a decent PG that can be a back up for a year, while apprenticing under Conley. I also don’t see it as a high priority this summer, because we should have enough playmaking with Conley, Towns and SloMo, and maybe Ant and NAW will develop under Mike as well. Maybe in a year, Ant will develop enough that Point-Ant gets a lot of back up minutes and closes games.

[kidfozzy]

Thoughts on a potential trade involving KAT for Scoot Henderson or Brandon Miller?

[shrink]

Thoughts on a potential trade involving KAT for Scoot Henderson or Brandon Miller?

Check the previous two pages of this thread.

[fattymcgee]

Thoughts on a potential trade involving KAT for Scoot Henderson or Brandon Miller?

I'm against trading KAT, but if we were to trade him that would be a good starting point.

[shrink]

To those that are concerned about having big contracts on the books... you know it's not your money right?

I for one am glad that we are moving on from penny pinching, under the table payoff, sell 2nd round picks for money, Glenn Taylor ownership. To a group that is willing to put their money where their mouth is and take big swings to make a winner.

Finally we are swinging for the fences rather than striking out looking. At least now we have a chance to connect on one of the swings vs so many years of not taking them.

For the record, I do not believe Glen Taylor was cheap.

First, he bought the Wolves in 1994 to prevent them from moving to New Orleans. In 1994, an NBA team was no sure thing that the investment would rise in value, especially in Minnesota, where the market for ticket sales was one of the league’s worst. Moreover, when he had opportunities to sell the Wolves and make more money, he turned down offers from buyers who would not agree to keep the team in Minnesota.

Next, he’s the guy that gave Garnett the biggest contract ever at that time. The contract was so big that it scared all the other owners, and led to a CBA rule with the max deal provision.

Finally, Glen Taylor has been willing to pay luxury tax in the past, and has paid it three times. He usually only does it though if he has a team that he thinks can make the playoffs, which hasn’t been very often. I saw a 2017 hoopshype article, and 3 times would rate as 11-16 among nba teams. Now, lux taxes these days dwarf those payments, but remember that Taylor agreed to the Towns extension without 100% certainty at the time that Lore and ARod could come up with the money to buy the team.

The NBA has had a couple ridiculous spenders in the past, and we’ve had some ridiculously cheap owners as well. The difference is still very high - we added Tim Connolly and Kyle Anderson because of other cheap owners. Taylor is probably an above average owner for spending, but we don’t know if he would have been even more extravagant if the teams were more successful. His biggest issue has been hiring the wrong people, not his willingness to spend.

[Baseline81]

Thoughts on a potential trade involving KAT for Scoot Henderson or Brandon Miller?

May be best as a separate thread and one I would participate in.

[Calinks]

KAT for Scoot could be a good move. If the two bigs thing doesn't work, (and so far it hasn't) we need to get off one of these guys and contracts ASAP with good value. If Scoot is really a star guard, that's a pretty sweet deal for us as the team it would probably be really good.

[Neeva]

KAT for Scoot could be a good move. If the two bigs thing doesn't work, (and so far it hasn't) we need to get off one of these guys and contracts ASAP with good value. If Scoot is really a star guard, that's a pretty sweet deal for us as the team it would probably be really good.

If Scoot hits, a big three of Ant, Scoot and Jaden is going places and wolves won’t have 100 million tied to two bigs.

[jpatrick]

KAT for Scoot could be a good move. If the two bigs thing doesn't work, (and so far it hasn't) we need to get off one of these guys and contracts ASAP with good value. If Scoot is really a star guard, that's a pretty sweet deal for us as the team it would probably be really good.

If Scoot hits, a big three of Ant, Scoot and Jaden is going places and wolves won’t have 100 million tied to two bigs.

Scoot/Ant isn’t a perfect fit as both are heavy downhill scorers that aren’t knockdown shooters or pass first guys, but I 100% would do this if available. As you said, the ceiling is really high. Higher than trying to fit KAT/Gobert together.

[Klomp]

In many years, I'd be open to trying to trade for 2 or 3. But I really am not a fan of most of this class.

[Worm Guts]

I haven't really watched Scoot, but one issue I have is that he's 19 and that move is probably setting back the window a few years.

[urinesane]

To those that are concerned about having big contracts on the books... you know it's not your money right?

I for one am glad that we are moving on from penny pinching, under the table payoff, sell 2nd round picks for money, Glenn Taylor ownership. To a group that is willing to put their money where their mouth is and take big swings to make a winner.

Finally we are swinging for the fences rather than striking out looking. At least now we have a chance to connect on one of the swings vs so many years of not taking them.

For the record, I do not believe Glen Taylor was cheap.

First, he bought the Wolves in 1994 to prevent them from moving to New Orleans. In 1994, an NBA team was no sure thing that the investment would rise in value, especially in Minnesota, where the market for ticket sales was one of the league’s worst. Moreover, when he had opportunities to sell the Wolves and make more money, he turned down offers from buyers who would not agree to keep the team in Minnesota.

Next, he’s the guy that gave Garnett the biggest contract ever at that time. The contract was so big that it scared all the other owners, and led to a CBA rule with the max deal provision.

Finally, Glen Taylor has been willing to pay luxury tax in the past, and has paid it three times. He usually only does it though if he has a team that he thinks can make the playoffs, which hasn’t been very often. I saw a 2017 hoopshype article, and 3 times would rate as 11-16 among nba teams. Now, lux taxes these days dwarf those payments, but remember that Taylor agreed to the Towns extension without 100% certainty at the time that Lore and ARod could come up with the money to buy the team.

The NBA has had a couple ridiculous spenders in the past, and we’ve had some ridiculously cheap owners as well. The difference is still very high - we added Tim Connolly and Kyle Anderson because of other cheap owners. Taylor is probably an above average owner for spending, but we don’t know if he would have been even more extravagant if the teams were more successful. His biggest issue has been hiring the wrong people, not his willingness to spend.

Fair points. I suppose it is more about the people that he's chosen than an unwillingness to open his check book (he hasn't seemed great on that front outside of the new ownership group).

I like that the new ownership group hasn't been jaded by the history of the franchise and is approaching things like a team looking to contend for titles (not just in words but in action).