[Krawczynski] Alex Rodriguez and Marc Lore in serious talks to become the next owners of the Minnesota Timberwolves

[Klomp]

I've had a lot of time to digest a lot of content. A few thoughts....

-I will walk back slightly on the "locked out" stuff, because Taylor said essentially that once the deal fell through in his mind, they became like other limited partners, who also don't have free reign of Target Center. However, what still bugs me is that he sent out a company-wide memo telling people not to talk to them. If that's true, it seems like it's something he doesn't do for other limiteds.
-I think his loose lips might do him in, as Lore/Rodriguez noted one of his statements he made and it sounded like something they plan to use against him in potential litigation.
-Lore/Rodriguez are pulling out the stops to give them the "win" in the public eye. Taylor didn't want to go after Connelly, didn't want to trade for Gobert, etc. These are major moves as part of the team's success that he's now trying to take credit for.
-What still amazes me is how out of left field this whole brouhaha was. NO ONE saw this coming. Not Lore, not Rodriguez, not Connelly, not Shams, not Woj. Taylor just woke up one morning and decided to put out this press release. That's scary. Considering how "hands off" he always claims to be, that's not a hands-off move whatsoever.

[Klomp]

It seems that Lore and A Rod don't have their own money they need to rely on Schmidt and Dyal Group. I'd prefer having the owners actually be the people with the financial investment than investors into their investment.

The number of franchises that don't have limited partners can probably be counted on one hand. This says nothing as to whether or not Lore and Rodriguez have the financial feasibility to own a franchise.

[shrink]

Lore/Rodriguez are pulling out the stops to give them the "win" in the public eye. Taylor didn't want to go after Connelly, didn't want to trade for Gobert, etc. These are major moves as part of the team's success that he's now trying to take credit for.

Even from what ARod and Lore have said, Taylor wasn’t unwilling to pay Tim Connelly - he just thought he wouldn’t come here. And they even acknowledged Taylor let them do the Gobert trade (which 98% said was an overpay). And for both Gobert and Connelly, it was Taylor who was paying the bulk of those millions up front, ARod and Lore were only on the hook for 20%, then 40%. Even with all the spinning of who’s responsible, Taylor deserves some of the credit here even for the things ARod and Lore want full credit for.

Then, as I’ve mentioned before, there is no way that ARod and Lore can claim any credit for the successful parts of the team that led up to this - before they were even here. If they get credit for Gobert and Conley, then Glen gets credit for Towns, Jaden, Naz, Finch, and especially Ant. Moreover, Taylor should get double credit for Naz Reid. I wonder just how much secondary credit we should give either of these guys for “their” GM’s decisions, but Glen literally inserted himself last year to keep Naz on the team, when Tim Connelly was going to let him walk. According to Jon K, Taylor called Connelly and told him to get a Naz deal done.

Gobert and Conley alone don’t make this team so successful. It is those guys, plus the stuff that came before, that added up to our current success. I get tired of this black-and-white arguments where Lore and ARod get all the credit for today, and Taylor is blamed like every bad decision the organization has made.

[Klomp]

Lore/Rodriguez are pulling out the stops to give them the "win" in the public eye. Taylor didn't want to go after Connelly, didn't want to trade for Gobert, etc. These are major moves as part of the team's success that he's now trying to take credit for.

Even from what ARod and Lore have said, Taylor wasn’t unwilling to pay Tim Connelly - he just thought he wouldn’t come here. And they even acknowledged Taylor let them do the Gobert trade (which 98% said was an overpay). And for both Gobert and the Connelly, it was Taylor who was paying the bulk of those millions up front, ARod and Lore were only on the hook for 20%, then 40%. Even with all the spinning of who’s responsible, Taylor deserves some of the credit here even for the things ARod and Lore want full credit for.

Then, as I’ve mentioned before, there is no way that ARod and Lore can claim any credit for the successful parts of the team that led up to this - before they were even here. If they get credit for Gobert and Conley, then Glen gets credit for Towns, Jaden, Naz, Finch, and especially Ant. Moreover, Taylor should get double credit for Naz Reid. I wonder just how much secondary credit we should give either of these guys for “their” GM’s decisions, but Glen literally inserted himself last year to keep Naz on the team, when Tim Connelly was going to let him walk. According to Jon K, Taylor called Connelly and told him to get a Naz deal done.

Gobert and Conley alone don’t make this team so successful. It is those guys, plus the stuff that came before, that added up to our current success. I get tired of this black-and-white arguments where Lore and ARod get all the credit for today, and Taylor is blamed like every bad decision the organization has made.

He writes the checks, sure. And he hasn't stonewalled, telling a GM they can't do a move they want to do. That's always been his MO, and his greatest redeeming quality as team owner, as well as stepping up in 1994. So Glen does get credit in that way. However, Marc is absolutely correct in his statement that Connelly never would have come to Minnesota before, had Marc and Alex not pushed for it.

Regarding Naz, Glen did say "get it done." However, I'm not so sure it wouldn't have gotten done without him saying that. I think they were just haggling over dollar amounts at that point rather than deciding if they wanted to bring him back.

[Baseline81]

Even from what ARod and Lore have said, Taylor wasn’t unwilling to pay Tim Connelly - he just thought he wouldn’t come here. And they even acknowledged Taylor let them do the Gobert trade (which 98% said was an overpay). And for both Gobert and the Connelly, it was Taylor who was paying the bulk of those millions up front, ARod and Lore were only on the hook for 20%, then 40%. Even with all the spinning of who’s responsible, Taylor deserves some of the credit here even for the things ARod and Lore want full credit for.

Then, as I’ve mentioned before, there is no way that ARod and Lore can claim any credit for the successful parts of the team that led up to this - before they were even here. If they get credit for Gobert and Conley, then Glen gets credit for Towns, Jaden, Naz, Finch, and especially Ant. Moreover, Taylor should get double credit for Naz Reid. I wonder just how much secondary credit we should give either of these guys for “their” GM’s decisions, but Glen literally inserted himself last year to keep Naz on the team, when Tim Connelly was going to let him walk. According to Jon K, Taylor called Connelly and told him to get a Naz deal done.

Gobert and Conley alone don’t make this team so successful. It is those guys, plus the stuff that came before, that added up to our current success. I get tired of this black-and-white arguments where Lore and ARod get all the credit for today, and Taylor is blamed like every bad decision the organization has made.

Regarding Gobert's overpay, the 98 percent was for draft capital and not his contract. Taylor may have signed off on it because he wouldn't be around when the future picks come due.

[shrink]

Regarding Naz, Glen did say "get it done." However, I'm not so sure it wouldn't have gotten done without him saying that. I think they were just haggling over dollar amounts at that point rather than deciding if they wanted to bring him back.

They had been haggling all season, with Connelly constantly making offers that were refused. Five days before free agency, word was that they were still far apart. And rightly so - Naz was worth more than Connelly could offer as a bench player, against teams that would pay Naz as a starter. Glen typically doesn’t interfere in contract talks, and he wouldn’t make that call if it didn’t need to be made. In fact, I think that Connelly had already charted a path to use the Naz slot for Monte Morris, and had to pivot to the cheaper Shake Milton at the last minute when he got the Naz order.

[Klomp]

Regarding Naz, Glen did say "get it done." However, I'm not so sure it wouldn't have gotten done without him saying that. I think they were just haggling over dollar amounts at that point rather than deciding if they wanted to bring him back.

They had been haggling all season, with Connelly constantly making offers that were refused. Five days before free agency, word was that they were still far apart. And rightly so - Naz was worth more than Connelly could offer as a bench player, against teams that would pay Naz as a starter. Glen typically doesn’t interfere in contract talks, and he wouldn’t make that call if it didn’t need to be made. In fact, I think that Connelly had already charted a path to use the Naz slot for Monte Morris, and had to pivot to the cheaper Shake Milton at the last minute when he got the Naz order.

That's plausible.

To be fair, Connelly came here from a franchise where he wasn't allowed to pay the tax. So he may have been in negotiations with that in mind. But it's also likely that Tim didn't have a full understanding of Naz the player, Naz the person and Naz the community icon.

[shrink]

Regarding Gobert's overpay, the 98 percent was for draft capital and not his contract. Taylor may have signed off on it because he wouldn't be around when the future picks come due.

You’re talking trade value, and Taylor had total authority to nix what he thought was a bad trade - and didn’t. Monetarily, we traded mostly expirings for Gobert who had a long, expensive, guaranteed contract

2022-23. $38 million
2023-24. $41 million
2024-25. $44 million
2025-26. $47 million (player option)

At a minimum, that salary was 80% on Taylor in Year 1, 60% in Year 2, 20% in Year 3-4. That’s over $60 mil of Taylor’s money, and that’s before we start to count the percent of lux taxes he was putting himself on the hook for.

[Baseline81]

You’re talking trade value. Monetarily, we traded mostly expirings for Gobert who had a long, expensive, guaranteed contract

2022-23. $38 million
2023-24. $41 million
2024-25. $44 million
2025-26. $47 million (player option)

At a minimum, that salary was 80% on Taylor in Year 1, 60% in Year 2, 20% in Year 3-4. That’s over $60 mil of Taylor’s money, and that’s before we start to count the percent of lux taxes he was putting himself on the hook for.

If that salary wasn't allocated to Gobert, would it not have been spent on other players?

[KGdaBom]

It seems that Lore and A Rod don't have their own money they need to rely on Schmidt and Dyal Group. I'd prefer having the owners actually be the people with the financial investment than investors into their investment.

The number of franchises that don't have limited partners can probably be counted on one hand. This says nothing as to whether or not Lore and Rodriguez have the financial feasibility to own a franchise.

I get that, but it doesn't seem like these partners will be all that limited.

[shrink]

You’re talking trade value. Monetarily, we traded mostly expirings for Gobert who had a long, expensive, guaranteed contract

2022-23. $38 million
2023-24. $41 million
2024-25. $44 million
2025-26. $47 million (player option)

At a minimum, that salary was 80% on Taylor in Year 1, 60% in Year 2, 20% in Year 3-4. That’s over $60 mil of Taylor’s money, and that’s before we start to count the percent of lux taxes he was putting himself on the hook for.

If that salary wasn't allocated to Gobert, would it not have been spent on other players?

You’re right. This was okaying a trade that was a one way trip though. Last year many people were saying Gobert was one of the ten worst contracts in the league, and we certainly couldn’t trade him away and get back anything close to our assets. It also virtually guaranteed we would be heading far over the lux and pay big taxes, unless the plan was to trade Towns.

What I’m trying to say (and not doing it well) was that it was a big bet that Taylor let ARod and Lore make with a lot of his money.

[thinktank]

I don’t think the NBA wants to relocate franchises.

They want to expand.

[Klomp]

An interesting read from 3 years ago.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/25/the-nbas-private-equity-plan-is-in-motion-and-its-betting-on-the-allure-spownership.html

[shrink]

He writes the checks, sure. And he hasn't stonewalled, telling a GM they can't do a move they want to do. That's always been his MO, and his greatest redeeming quality as team owner, as well as stepping up in 1994. So Glen does get credit in that way. However, Marc is absolutely correct in his statement that Connelly never would have come to Minnesota before, had Marc and Alex not pushed for it.

I agree they get credit for asking. And Glen gets credit for paying. “Hey Glen, we can pry away Connelly, but you’ll have to pay the bulk of his $8 mil a year salary. Can we offer him your money?”

I get that people still rage on him for selling a 1st to get Budinger and cash for Rambis buy out 15 years ago, but a cheap owner doesn’t agree to pay Connelly this salary.

[shrink]

This looks sketchy

An investor sued Blue Apron Holdings Inc. on Wednesday over fears that its planned $103 million sale to an affiliate of billionaire Marc Lore may be a desperate move driven by a major investor’s unpaid debts.

The lawsuit seeks internal files from the meal-kit company—a former “unicorn” that went public in 2017 at a $1.9 billion valuation—to investigate concerns about its $13-a-share deal with Wonder Group Inc., the venture-backed food delivery startup founded by Lore, a former Walmart executive.

The shareholder suit says there’s evidence the transaction is plagued by conflicts of interest involving ties between Blue Apron’s leaders and ...

[shrink]

This too

A former Walmart business development director claims he was “abruptly terminated” after alerting the company’s e-commerce star Marc Lore to questionable practices on the discounter’s website. The allegations were all related to the third-party marketplace, and included inflated sales, overcharges to sellers, failure to process returns and classifying products incorrectly. The ex-exec, Tri Huynh, claims Walmart suppressed his complaints in order “to show meteoric growth” in its online race against Amazon.

[younggunsmn]

I trust that you 2 worked in the financial industry, but you haven't offered any evidence of Lore's wealth other than "Rich People Diversify", and insist on arguing against Forbes articles citing his wealth, with numbers pulled from the same public disclosures you are going to find anywhere else.
You cited Eric Schmidt. Eric Schmidt isn't buying the Timberwolves. Marc Lore is.
Eric Schmidt is also the absolute scum of the earth.

Lets go to his wiki and dig a little bit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Lore

2001 - Sells a baseball card trading website for 5.7 million
2005 - Founds Diapers.com with one other person
2011 - Sells Diapers.com to Amazon for 545 million
2011-2013 Works for Amazon
2014 - Founds Jet.com (essentially an Amazon knockoff) with 2 other people.
2015 - Company launches, with help from equity investors.
2016 - Jet.com is bought by Walmart for 3.3 billion, Lore made CEO of E-Business.
2016-2019 - Lore works as head of E-Commerce for Walmart.
2020 - Walmart shuts down Jet.com

He has since made 3 major investments,
1. an electric airplane company called Archer Aviation
2. Wonder, a high end door dash knock off
3. Telosa, a quasi-communist city of the future in the desert somewhere where you somehow own the home you build there, but not the land underneath it.
Based on something called Georgism, if you really wanted to go down a rabbit hole, which believes governments should be funded completely by land and land-use taxes.
You guys on a fixed income are going to love that.

The real question is what was his stake in Jet.com, which is the real source of his wealth.
I can see him clearing 150-200 million from his Diapers.com sale.
But he had 2 other partners and a bunch of equity fundraising for Jet.com, and at most 200 million dollars to invest, with a least that much contributed by equity investors from the articles I've been able to find.
Certainly not a majority stake. Maybe 25% tops, which would be about an 800 million payout pre-taxes.

The articles saying he may be worth "Up to 4 billion" IMHO are just lazy journalists seeing he sold companies for .5 and 3.3 billion dollars, without accounting for how much of a stake he had in them..
He reinvested some of his Diapers money into Jet, and his Jet money into Archer, Wonder, and Telosa.
Wonder, Archer, and Telosa are almost certainly not liquid, as pulling a significant amount out would bankrupt them and using their money to fund the Wolves would be defrauding his investors.

IMHO it's a small stretch to say Lore is worth a billion dollars.
That Forbes estimate of 640 million seems reasonable.
If one of you guys can find me a source for his stake in Jet.com, I'd be glad to change my mind.

Lore got rich getting Amazon and then Walmart to grossly overpay for startup competitors just to make them go away.
It's an extremely sad state of affairs in our country where antitrust laws don't seem to exist or be enforced any more and big companies just gobble up their smaller competition until they are the only ones left.

Lore's not the guy with mad money that people with ideas go to, he's the guy with an idea that goes around begging for money.

1. I REALLY DONT LIKE Glen Taylor, but Glen Taylor has the ability to fund the team in perpetuity, and the desire to keep it here.
He is also fine with the state of Target Center.
2. Lore missed the deadline.
3. Carlyle group was announced as having been rejected the day after an owners meeting. Read into that what you will.
4. Lore and Rodriguez, going to the Dyal group specifically, which was "pre-approved" to own 6 percent of another team, seems like a desperation play.
There are certainly other individuals or combinations of individuals out there, like Schmidt, who could have bought that stake for the last 300 million.

A) Why an equity group?
B) Was it an investment or a loan from the equity group?

Lore's current 27% was 405 million dollars.
Arod's 9% was 135 million dollars.
To get to 50%, with another 23% investment, Lore needs to come up with another 345 million dollars.
It was rumored they were looking for 300 million from the equity group.

Can Lore not get to 50% on his own and needs a loan from an equity group to get there, and this is why he won't just sell shares?
Are other potential investors balking at the markup they are trying to get for the increased valuation and they just ran out of time?

This was not a spur of the moment decision from Taylor.
I believe he was simply sitting there waiting for the date to pass where he could legally pull the trigger.

[younggunsmn]

IMHO we may be dodging a real bullet to avoid a sale to Mark Lore.

[younggunsmn]

This looks sketchy

An investor sued Blue Apron Holdings Inc. on Wednesday over fears that its planned $103 million sale to an affiliate of billionaire Marc Lore may be a desperate move driven by a major investor’s unpaid debts.

The lawsuit seeks internal files from the meal-kit company—a former “unicorn” that went public in 2017 at a $1.9 billion valuation—to investigate concerns about its $13-a-share deal with Wonder Group Inc., the venture-backed food delivery startup founded by Lore, a former Walmart executive.

The shareholder suit says there’s evidence the transaction is plagued by conflicts of interest involving ties between Blue Apron’s leaders and ...

So he bought up a dying company at 5% of its initial value and rebranded. Nothing to see here folks.
Insert "I can fix her" meme.

What is it with people not being able cook their own food or even go pick it up?
Is it a sign of the end of civilization?
Am I just old and have not been issued my personal work robot yet?

[guest81]

That's not a tell at all. One thing seems obvious. The Board of Governors will not approve the sale with a huge part of the sale being a high interest loan from the Dyal Group.

It’s very obvious a tell. Why would you not allow your co owners speak to staff or be in the building if this isn’t Taylor’s massively inflated ego?

Because they are in litigation against him. Duh.

They aren't even officially in litigation yet?