Identity crisis?

[winforlose]

Our identity was defense. I hate to say this, but we are no longer a defensive identity team. Julius Randle, Mike Conley, Rob Dillingham, Luka Garza, and to a degree Josh Minott are not plus defenders. They just are not. Our scheme doesn’t work when guys miss rotations and we have a lot of guys who cannot be trusted to make those rotations. We are also seeing end of game Jaden is too tired to defend at a high level. For Ant that starts even earlier. Rudy gets frustrated and sometimes stays down too much or comes out too much. We slack on the defensive glass too often and so we allow teams to beat us with second chance points. We also take quarters off defensively which often leads to poor offense and lop sided scores. We are team that must outscore the opponent and even then we need something else to go right (win the rebounding battle, turnover battle, ect…) We stopped being a defensive identity team the moment we started playing two non defender lineups, and we cannot be one again until we are healthy and even then it gets tough.

[minimus]

Our identity was defense. I hate to say this, but we are no longer a defensive identity team. Julius Randle, Mike Conley, Rob Dillingham, Luka Garza, and to a degree Josh Minott are not plus defenders. They just are not. Our scheme doesn’t work when guys miss rotations and we have a lot of guys who cannot be trusted to make those rotations. We are also seeing end of game Jaden is too tired to defend at a high level. For Ant that starts even earlier. Rudy gets frustrated and sometimes stays down too much or comes out too much. We slack on the defensive glass too often and so we allow teams to beat us with second chance points. We also take quarters off defensively which often leads to poor offense and lop sided scores. We are team that must outscore the opponent and even then we need something else to go right (win the rebounding battle, turnover battle, ect…) We stopped being a defensive identity team the moment we started playing two non defender lineups, and we cannot be one again until we are healthy and even then it gets tough.

I hate to say it but our defensive identity was not ONLY based on numbers of plus defenders in roster, but combination of size, fly around mentality, chemistry and effort. Even this year with lack of effort from Randle, inconsistent Conley play, raw Rob and low effort / low IQ plays from Minott we have been a good defensive team. MIN traded away a lot of size in Towns and Anderson, and there is a huge hole in frontcourt now, but if I look perimeter defense I can see DDV, Clark additions giving us a lot of depth and flexibility. Sure, TC must fix our backup C problem especially considering the fact that Gobert is slowing down as rebounder, but it is not doom and gloom situation.

[winforlose]

Our identity was defense. I hate to say this, but we are no longer a defensive identity team. Julius Randle, Mike Conley, Rob Dillingham, Luka Garza, and to a degree Josh Minott are not plus defenders. They just are not. Our scheme doesn’t work when guys miss rotations and we have a lot of guys who cannot be trusted to make those rotations. We are also seeing end of game Jaden is too tired to defend at a high level. For Ant that starts even earlier. Rudy gets frustrated and sometimes stays down too much or comes out too much. We slack on the defensive glass too often and so we allow teams to beat us with second chance points. We also take quarters off defensively which often leads to poor offense and lop sided scores. We are team that must outscore the opponent and even then we need something else to go right (win the rebounding battle, turnover battle, ect…) We stopped being a defensive identity team the moment we started playing two non defender lineups, and we cannot be one again until we are healthy and even then it gets tough.

I hate to say it but our defensive identity was not ONLY based on numbers of plus defenders in roster, but combination of size, fly around mentality, chemistry and effort. Even this year with lack of effort from Randle, inconsistent Conley play, raw Rob and low effort / low IQ plays from Minott we have been a good defensive team. MIN traded away a lot of size in Towns and Anderson, and there is a huge hole in frontcourt now, but if I look perimeter defense I can see DDV, Clark additions giving us a lot of depth and flexibility. Sure, TC must fix our backup C problem especially considering the fact that Gobert is slowing down as rebounder, but it is not doom and gloom situation.

I didn’t say it was doom and gloom, but I did say we are not the team with the defensive identity. Take tonights win, we gave up 98 points through 3 quarters. The game before we gave up 90 and the game before that 88. That is not a team that is holding opponents under 100 and forcing players to have horrible nights. Our identity is much more about our offense and whether we can keep the turnovers down and make our 3s. The games we lost where we should have won, the issues we talked about were not primarily defensive, they poor shooting production from DDV and to much iso ball. Too many turnovers, and not enough defensive rebounding. We might enjoy good defense when we see it, but our identity has shifted.

[Klomp]

I didn’t say it was doom and gloom, but I did say we are not the team with the defensive identity. Take tonights win, we gave up 98 points through 3 quarters. The game before we gave up 90 and the game before that 88. That is not a team that is holding opponents under 100 and forcing players to have horrible nights. Our identity is much more about our offense and whether we can keep the turnovers down and make our 3s.

The four games previous: 83, 75, 77, 74
The game before that, Denver scored 13 in the 4th.

But you are absolutely right, there is nothing about this team that signals a defensive identity. Not Rudy Gobert. Mot Jaden McDaniels. Not Nickeil Alexander-Walker. There is no defensive identity here.

[Klomp]

This team feels like it's becoming a team of DAWGS. Ant, Jaden, Naz lead the way here. Donte and Julius feed into it too, as do Jaylen Clark, Rob Dilligham, Nickeil Alexander-Walker and TJ Shannon.

[winforlose]

I didn’t say it was doom and gloom, but I did say we are not the team with the defensive identity. Take tonights win, we gave up 98 points through 3 quarters. The game before we gave up 90 and the game before that 88. That is not a team that is holding opponents under 100 and forcing players to have horrible nights. Our identity is much more about our offense and whether we can keep the turnovers down and make our 3s.

The four games previous: 83, 75, 77, 74
The game before that, Denver scored 13 in the 4th.

But you are absolutely right, there is nothing about this team that signals a defensive identity. Not Rudy Gobert. Mot Jaden McDaniels. Not Nickeil Alexander-Walker. There is no defensive identity here.

All great defenders, and you didn’t even include Clark who is known for his defense, or Ant who can turn it on at will. Hell, DDV is an above average defender. The individual pieces don’t make the team’s identity. The way the pieces fit together does. Look at points in the paint battles this season. Look at the ratio we give up open or wide open 3s, look at second chance points given up, and look at defensive rebounding. Last season we kept teams out of their rhythms, we owned the paint, defended home court, and made guys uncomfortable. This season just isn’t last season. I think your comment confuses potential with identity.

[Klomp]

I didn’t say it was doom and gloom, but I did say we are not the team with the defensive identity. Take tonights win, we gave up 98 points through 3 quarters. The game before we gave up 90 and the game before that 88. That is not a team that is holding opponents under 100 and forcing players to have horrible nights. Our identity is much more about our offense and whether we can keep the turnovers down and make our 3s.

The four games previous: 83, 75, 77, 74
The game before that, Denver scored 13 in the 4th.

But you are absolutely right, there is nothing about this team that signals a defensive identity. Not Rudy Gobert. Mot Jaden McDaniels. Not Nickeil Alexander-Walker. There is no defensive identity here.

All great defenders, and you didn’t even include Clark who is known for his defense, or Ant who can turn it on at will. Hell, DDV is an above average defender. The individual pieces don’t make the team’s identity. The way the pieces fit together does. Look at points in the paint battles this season. Look at the ratio we give up open or wide open 3s, look at second chance points given up, and look at defensive rebounding. Last season we kept teams out of their rhythms, we owned the paint, defended home court, and made guys uncomfortable. This season just isn’t last season. I think your comment confuses potential with identity.

There is more than one way to play defense. Just because the defense looks different doesn't mean it is absent.

[winforlose]

The four games previous: 83, 75, 77, 74
The game before that, Denver scored 13 in the 4th.

But you are absolutely right, there is nothing about this team that signals a defensive identity. Not Rudy Gobert. Mot Jaden McDaniels. Not Nickeil Alexander-Walker. There is no defensive identity here.

All great defenders, and you didn’t even include Clark who is known for his defense, or Ant who can turn it on at will. Hell, DDV is an above average defender. The individual pieces don’t make the team’s identity. The way the pieces fit together does. Look at points in the paint battles this season. Look at the ratio we give up open or wide open 3s, look at second chance points given up, and look at defensive rebounding. Last season we kept teams out of their rhythms, we owned the paint, defended home court, and made guys uncomfortable. This season just isn’t last season. I think your comment confuses potential with identity.

There is more than one way to play defense. Just because the defense looks different doesn't mean it is absent.

True, but the identity of a team is not 0 or 100. It can be true that a team does not have a defensive identity and still plays some defense. Last season we were defined by our defense because that is how we won games. This season it is far more about our offense, our rebounding, and our turnovers. When the offense stalls we have lopsided quarters where the defense doesn’t hold up.

Last season when teams missed shots we said it was because they were not in rhythm. This season rather than taking them out of rhythm we hope they miss. Even Jim and Mike talk about it during the games. It isn’t a secret that this team doesn’t function the way it did last year. Some of that is for the better some of it is not. But we didn’t beat the Rockets with defense tonight, and we didn’t beat them with defense last time either.

[minimus]

All great defenders, and you didn’t even include Clark who is known for his defense, or Ant who can turn it on at will. Hell, DDV is an above average defender. The individual pieces don’t make the team’s identity. The way the pieces fit together does. Look at points in the paint battles this season. Look at the ratio we give up open or wide open 3s, look at second chance points given up, and look at defensive rebounding. Last season we kept teams out of their rhythms, we owned the paint, defended home court, and made guys uncomfortable. This season just isn’t last season. I think your comment confuses potential with identity.

There is more than one way to play defense. Just because the defense looks different doesn't mean it is absent.

It can be true that a team does not have a defensive identity and still plays some defense. Last season we were defined by our defense because that is how we won games. This season it is far more about our offense, our rebounding, and our turnovers. When the offense stalls we have lopsided quarters where the defense doesn’t hold up

Take championship DEN as example:

Jokic - an average defender, but gives you rebounding, smart fouls and quick hands in defense
MPJ - an awful defender
Murray - a bad defender
KCP - elite defender
Gordon - elite defender
Brown - good defender

5th ORtg, 15th DRtg

They clearly had a defensive identity, when Jokic asked coaching staff how he can contribute in defense. And they built around accordingly. Right now MIN defense is defined by Gobert and McDaniels length and mobility and NAW ability to navigate screens. But. Our coaching staff can also add on top of it: Clark help defense and some PoA defense, DDV hustle.

You are right, we speak about potential as well. As it should be because NAW is 26yo, Clark is 23yo, DDV is 28yo, Edwards is 23yo, Dilly is 20yo, McDaniels is 24yo, Reid is 25yo. But more importantly Edwards-Reid-McDaniels-NAW as core have been playing in already established defensive minded team (10th, 1st, 7th) DRtg in last three season. Despite all problems and ongoing issues.

One thing I agree with you, is that MIN lack balance, but I also believe that it is growing pain problem. Reid, McDaniels and Edwards are still developing their games, and in prime of their career it should be easier to implement other things, simply because they will have much more experience, much more repetition and playoff showings.

[winforlose]

There is more than one way to play defense. Just because the defense looks different doesn't mean it is absent.

It can be true that a team does not have a defensive identity and still plays some defense. Last season we were defined by our defense because that is how we won games. This season it is far more about our offense, our rebounding, and our turnovers. When the offense stalls we have lopsided quarters where the defense doesn’t hold up

Take championship DEN as example:

Jokic - an average defender, but gives you rebounding, smart fouls and quick hands in defense
MPJ - an awful defender
Murray - a bad defender
KCP - elite defender
Gordon - elite defender
Brown - good defender

5th ORtg, 15th DRtg

They clearly had a defensive identity, when Jokic asked coaching staff how he can contribute in defense. And they built around accordingly. Right now MIN defense is defined by Gobert and McDaniels length and mobility and NAW ability to navigate screens. But. Our coaching staff can also add on top of it: Clark help defense and some PoA defense, DDV hustle.

You are right, we speak about potential as well. As it should be because NAW is 26yo, Clark is 23yo, DDV is 28yo, Edwards is 23yo, Dilly is 20yo, McDaniels is 24yo, Reid is 25yo. But more importantly Edwards-Reid-McDaniels-NAW as core have been playing in already established defensive minded team (10th, 1st, 7th) DRtg in last three season. Despite all problems and ongoing issues.

One thing I agree with you, is that MIN lack balance, but I also believe that it is growing pain problem. Reid, McDaniels and Edwards are still developing their games, and in prime of their career it should be easier to implement other things, simply because they will have much more experience, much more repetition and playoff showings.

1. In this context how do you define identity? To say Denver had a defensive identity is inconsistent with what I would say their identity was during the championship year.

2. I think Jaden has the most unexplored upside of the three. I think Ant and Naz will get better at the things they do well, but Jaden will hit another level, especially offensively. I see Jaden as the good version of Wiggins with a worse handle. Strong defense, athletic, can score at any level but is good off the dribble, where Wiggins liked to go back to the basket, Jaden likes his pull up and leaning fadeaway. Jaden will also probably average 8 to 10 rebounds in his prime. That core has it in them to be special.

3. I think roster balance is a short term issue. We just need a proper backup for Rudy and a proper starting PG. Dilly will hopefully grow into the latter, and I expect we draft the former. This team is young enough that some of our young talent will definitely improve just by the passage of time. Others will move on or get moved. That is life in the NBA.

[minimus]

It can be true that a team does not have a defensive identity and still plays some defense. Last season we were defined by our defense because that is how we won games. This season it is far more about our offense, our rebounding, and our turnovers. When the offense stalls we have lopsided quarters where the defense doesn’t hold up

Take championship DEN as example:

Jokic - an average defender, but gives you rebounding, smart fouls and quick hands in defense
MPJ - an awful defender
Murray - a bad defender
KCP - elite defender
Gordon - elite defender
Brown - good defender

5th ORtg, 15th DRtg

They clearly had a defensive identity, when Jokic asked coaching staff how he can contribute in defense. And they built around accordingly. Right now MIN defense is defined by Gobert and McDaniels length and mobility and NAW ability to navigate screens. But. Our coaching staff can also add on top of it: Clark help defense and some PoA defense, DDV hustle.

You are right, we speak about potential as well. As it should be because NAW is 26yo, Clark is 23yo, DDV is 28yo, Edwards is 23yo, Dilly is 20yo, McDaniels is 24yo, Reid is 25yo. But more importantly Edwards-Reid-McDaniels-NAW as core have been playing in already established defensive minded team (10th, 1st, 7th) DRtg in last three season. Despite all problems and ongoing issues.

One thing I agree with you, is that MIN lack balance, but I also believe that it is growing pain problem. Reid, McDaniels and Edwards are still developing their games, and in prime of their career it should be easier to implement other things, simply because they will have much more experience, much more repetition and playoff showings.

1. In this context how do you define identity? To say Denver had a defensive identity is inconsistent with what I would say their identity was during the championship year.

2. I think Jaden has the most unexplored upside of the three. I think Ant and Naz will get better at the things they do well, but Jaden will hit another level, especially offensively. I see Jaden as the good version of Wiggins with a worse handle. Strong defense, athletic, can score at any level but is good off the dribble, where Wiggins liked to go back to the basket, Jaden likes his pull up and leaning fadeaway. Jaden will also probably average 8 to 10 rebounds in his prime. That core has it in them to be special.

3. I think roster balance is a short term issue. We just need a proper backup for Rudy and a proper starting PG. Dilly will hopefully grow into the latter, and I expect we draft the former. This team is young enough that some of our young talent will definitely improve just by the passage of time. Others will move on or get moved. That is life in the NBA.

1. as part of their championship identity DEN deployed high-wall defense to maximise Jokic mobility, size and quick decision making (and very quick hands). Obviously they play other type of defenses as well, but high wall was implemented for Jokic

2. For sure, Jaden has a lot of talent. But it might be also small things, like learning how to play different roles etc. It not only about pure talent, but also experience in learning how to play competitive basketball. Every time Ingles inbounds the ball I think about level of experience of NBA veterans

[winforlose]

Take championship DEN as example:

Jokic - an average defender, but gives you rebounding, smart fouls and quick hands in defense
MPJ - an awful defender
Murray - a bad defender
KCP - elite defender
Gordon - elite defender
Brown - good defender

5th ORtg, 15th DRtg

They clearly had a defensive identity, when Jokic asked coaching staff how he can contribute in defense. And they built around accordingly. Right now MIN defense is defined by Gobert and McDaniels length and mobility and NAW ability to navigate screens. But. Our coaching staff can also add on top of it: Clark help defense and some PoA defense, DDV hustle.

You are right, we speak about potential as well. As it should be because NAW is 26yo, Clark is 23yo, DDV is 28yo, Edwards is 23yo, Dilly is 20yo, McDaniels is 24yo, Reid is 25yo. But more importantly Edwards-Reid-McDaniels-NAW as core have been playing in already established defensive minded team (10th, 1st, 7th) DRtg in last three season. Despite all problems and ongoing issues.

One thing I agree with you, is that MIN lack balance, but I also believe that it is growing pain problem. Reid, McDaniels and Edwards are still developing their games, and in prime of their career it should be easier to implement other things, simply because they will have much more experience, much more repetition and playoff showings.

1. In this context how do you define identity? To say Denver had a defensive identity is inconsistent with what I would say their identity was during the championship year.

2. I think Jaden has the most unexplored upside of the three. I think Ant and Naz will get better at the things they do well, but Jaden will hit another level, especially offensively. I see Jaden as the good version of Wiggins with a worse handle. Strong defense, athletic, can score at any level but is good off the dribble, where Wiggins liked to go back to the basket, Jaden likes his pull up and leaning fadeaway. Jaden will also probably average 8 to 10 rebounds in his prime. That core has it in them to be special.

3. I think roster balance is a short term issue. We just need a proper backup for Rudy and a proper starting PG. Dilly will hopefully grow into the latter, and I expect we draft the former. This team is young enough that some of our young talent will definitely improve just by the passage of time. Others will move on or get moved. That is life in the NBA.

1. as part of their championship identity DEN deployed high-wall defense to maximise Jokic mobility, size and quick decision making (and very quick hands). Obviously they play other type of defenses as well, but high wall was implemented for Jokic

2. For sure, Jaden has a lot of talent. But it might be also small things, like learning how to play different roles etc. It not only about pure talent, but also experience in learning how to play competitive basketball. Every time Ingles inbounds the ball I think about level of experience of NBA veterans

1. When I think of identity, I think of what someone is known for. You hear a name John Smith, and you know that is probably a person, but it doesn’t tell you much of their story. But I tell you the name Will Smith and now if you have seen his movies or heard his music you have something to associate with him. In the basketball context last season people knew us for our defense. This season our identity is more about hitting 3s and finding ways to score. That does not suggest that we are not more than one thing, of course we are. But to me a teams identity is the first thing that you think about when you think about that team, and for us it is Ant and 3 point shooting. For Denver in the championship year it was Joker and playmaking. There identity was the way they won games and that was with incredible passing in the half court and transition.

2. Jaden has already cut down on fouling, improved rebounding, and improved his passing at the age of 24. I think his best area of improvement to unlock his game is his handle. I think in his prime his shooting will be more consistent, and I think his role will expand to be more 3 level scoring focused rather than being tucked in the corner.

[TimberKat]

This team feels like it's becoming a team of DAWGS. Ant, Jaden, Naz lead the way here. Donte and Julius feed into it too, as do Jaylen Clark, Rob Dilligham, Nickeil Alexander-Walker and TJ Shannon.

A team of DAWGS in Wolves clothing is not a good thing. We can't expect Ant to have 40s every night and other guys having great stats. We can't win many games that way. We got to re-establish the defense. I think Gobert, JMcD, Ant, Clark, NAW maybe our best lineup

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

One big mentality shift is that without Towns and Anderson MIN play more lineups with one big, it means that as group our players MUST fight for 50/50 and "long" rebounds.

[Guest84]

Could the team take advantage of Jaden in the post potentially in the future? Could this be another area to unlock his potential instead of always sitting in the corners?

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

One big mentality shift is that without Towns and Anderson MIN play more lineups with one big, it means that as group our players MUST fight for 50/50 and "long" rebounds.

Watch the possession that started the Bulls game on Wednesday, and then the possession around 5 minutes left night that ended with the Ant-1 falling down. I think we're starting to see it more often.

[Klomp]

Could the team take advantage of Jaden in the post potentially in the future? Could this be another area to unlock his potential instead of always sitting in the corners?

Not really the true post, but I'd put him around the elbows more. I think he has enough in his bag to do that. Usually, that means more "small lineups", but finding out about that now gives more options for lineups when it comes to big moments down the stretch.

I love when we use him in more of a role like how Vando was "used" on offense.

[minimus]

In four games as starter Naz averages 18.8ppg, 7.3rpg, 3.3 apg while shooting 45-39-100. I will monitor his assist numbers, because I already knew that Naz can shoot threes, slash and postup. However, I think it is interesting to see through lens of situation with Randle whether Reid can share the workload with Edwards as facilitator.

[Klomp]

In four games as starter Naz averages 18.8ppg, 7.3rpg, 3.3 apg while shooting 45-39-100. I will monitor his assist numbers, because I already knew that Naz can shoot threes, slash and postup. However, I think it is interesting to see through lens of situation with Randle whether Reid can share the workload with Edwards as facilitator.

It's going to look a bit different, but Naz has always had facilitation in his game.

[frankenwolf]

I didn’t say it was doom and gloom, but I did say we are not the team with the defensive identity. Take tonights win, we gave up 98 points through 3 quarters. The game before we gave up 90 and the game before that 88. That is not a team that is holding opponents under 100 and forcing players to have horrible nights. Our identity is much more about our offense and whether we can keep the turnovers down and make our 3s.

The four games previous: 83, 75, 77, 74
The game before that, Denver scored 13 in the 4th.

But you are absolutely right, there is nothing about this team that signals a defensive identity. Not Rudy Gobert. Mot Jaden McDaniels. Not Nickeil Alexander-Walker. There is no defensive identity here.

Klomp, I think you are going too far out on what W4L said and W4L, this team isn't as defensive as last years, but they are still a top 10 defense, so the identity hasn't disappeared. Yes, our offense needs to improve, but we were saying that last year also. This year, again, we are working out the kinks. IF (yes I meant to capitalize that) this team stays together next year, they will be better. I do not look for that to happen, as I think TC will find a deal for Randle that enhances our 1 & 5 spots and emphasizes defense and shot making. We do need someone besides Ant that can get their shot when they want, (and Dilly may fill that role in the future) in order that teams don't put Ant on an island and dare him to beat them.