Butler has requested a trade, the saga continues

[Rapaz]

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[KGdaBom]

you guys know your situation better than me, taking back waiters would suck. but jrich and a first instead of losing butler for nothing is a pretty decent deal. waiters deal hurts but rich making half what he could.

I like Richardson, but I don’t think he is a $20 mil a year player yet, but maybe someday. He is 25, so I would have hoped to see more to put him in the $20 mil a year club.

Let me ask you this. Do you think that the package of Richardson and Waiters is worth?:

2018-19. $20.9 mil
2019-20. $22.2 mil
2020-21. $23.5 mil
——————————-
2018-21. $66.6 mil

It feels like If Josh plays well, he takes minutes and value away from Waiters.

i dont beleive your team would have money to upgrade at all if butler walked away. so the question should be, over teh next 3 years, would you rather just lose butler and rely on cap space(dont have it) to improve?

when you dont have cap space, dont worry about the money. butler walking gets you nothing. jrich and a first is better than nothing, waiters might surprise, he might suck but as i said.

i dont see the alternative as you guys have 20mil to spend on some other player if butler walk.

is jrich, waiters and a first rounder better than not being able to do anything until 2021?

It's a protected FRP. We could easily end up not getting it. Waiters negative cancels our Richardson positive and Wolves give a top ten player to the heat for FREE.

[KGdaBom]

They had already agreed to a deal and were proceeding to the next steps... And then Thibs changes his mind and asks for more? That has to be pretty annoying if you're Pat Riley to have your time wasted like that.

That is speculation. No proof. In the end it didn't matter. Taylor rejected the deal.

For the record, it was Thibs. Stein reported Taylor, Doogie confirmed from three sources it wasn’t, and Stein retracted in a tweet.

I don’t care who said no - hopefully both of them would have.

Dion “Weighters!” Love that!

Thanks for the update. I don't surf the TwitterVerse so I don't get that info unless it's posted here.

[theGreatRC]

Haven't read through this thread today so I don't know if this was posted, but KAT's responses towards Jimmy Butler means he's gone

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[Calinks]

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Probably more leaks form Jimmy's camp. They have been putting all kinds of BS out there.

[theGreatRC]

I don't get why people think what Thibs did in the Heat-Wolves deal is scummy.

We were about to take a Jrich+Waiters+1st round pick deal until we saw the medical info..Dion Waiters is STILL hurt and has had a lingering injury for awhile..

Thibs obviously didn't like what we saw on the medical report and wanted an additional asset. Good, i'm glad he didn't just accept it.

Waiters is negative value that's only there to match the cheap salary of JRich. The 1st round pick will probably be in the 20+ range so that's pretty trash too..

I still believe that Jimmy is going to end up on the Heat soon

[K4P]

I don't get why people think what Thibs did in the Heat-Wolves deal is scummy.

We were about to take a Jrich+Waiters+1st round pick deal until we saw the medical info..Dion Waiters is STILL hurt and has had a lingering injury for awhile..

Thibs obviously didn't like what we saw on the medical report and wanted an additional asset. Good, i'm glad he didn't just accept it.

Waiters is negative value that's only there to match the cheap salary of JRich. The 1st round pick will probably be in the 20+ range so that's pretty trash too..

I still believe that Jimmy is going to end up on the Heat soon

The Heat have assets they can reasonably give up. They'll give in sooner than later. Riley wants his star.

[SO_MONEY]

With Winslow getting an extention, I could see a Richardson, Winslow and a 1st.

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[puppa bear]

With Winslow getting an extention, I could see a Richardson, Winslow and a 1st.

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Winslow now becomes a PPP. He counts as $10.3m incoming for you guys and $3.3m (I think) outgoing for us. We can’t take back Jimmy for just Rich and Justise - not enough salary.

As for the poster above, IMO Riley only wants Jimmy if we have enough assets left in the tank to make a play at another disgruntled star around the deadline, preferably without moving Bam (unless it’s a legit superstar). For this reason I don’t see him including both Rich and Winslow, and I don’t see him giving out a second 1st. It’s not based on any inside info, just what I’ve seen of this franchise and how it’s FO works.

About the Miami leaking thing: this is by far the most any Heat trade info that has been in the media. Normally we get an insider leaking something on the boards a day before it happens, max. The media in Miami get nothing, and I mean nothing. The biggest tells we normally get is Riley’s stone cold “we’re not looking to move him” sound bite a week before we trade them. We know Ethan is looking to build his brand (5 Reasons), and so some extra chit is being dug up and sling without thought, but apart from that this is a massive outlier in Heat trade (& FA signing) intel in the media.

[horaceworthy]

Inside the wolves locker room.

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And now Jimmy treats his time with the team like Festivus, with Feats of Strength and Airing of Grievances.

[Jedzz]

Airing of Grievances

[shrink]

I don't get why people think what Thibs did in the Heat-Wolves deal is scummy.

We were about to take a Jrich+Waiters+1st round pick deal until we saw the medical info..Dion Waiters is STILL hurt and has had a lingering injury for awhile..

Thibs obviously didn't like what we saw on the medical report and wanted an additional asset. Good, i'm glad he didn't just accept it.

Waiters is negative value that's only there to match the cheap salary of JRich. The 1st round pick will probably be in the 20+ range so that's pretty trash too..

I still believe that Jimmy is going to end up on the Heat soon

Good post. Funny that no one seems to mention that Waiters medicals might have killed the deal, with Riley sending us damaged goods.

[AhUtopian]

Just curious.

What would you suggest Thib doing when Jimmy told Thib what Jimmy thinking four days after eliminated?

I f I were Thib,all I could have done was telling Jimmy this team will get better during offseason ,and tried to convince Jimmy to wait and see.

It's not until Taylor choosed a side and KAT leaked "either me or Butler",Jimmy made it public?

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[KG_Wolves]

Especially after tonights preseason game, I can see why Thibs is sabotaging any deals for Jimmy to leave

[big3_8_19_21]

I don't get why people think what Thibs did in the Heat-Wolves deal is scummy.

We were about to take a Jrich+Waiters+1st round pick deal until we saw the medical info..Dion Waiters is STILL hurt and has had a lingering injury for awhile..

Thibs obviously didn't like what we saw on the medical report and wanted an additional asset. Good, i'm glad he didn't just accept it.

Waiters is negative value that's only there to match the cheap salary of JRich. The 1st round pick will probably be in the 20+ range so that's pretty trash too..

I still believe that Jimmy is going to end up on the Heat soon

Good post. Funny that no one seems to mention that Waiters medicals might have killed the deal, with Riley sending us damaged goods.

I don't remember what the trade was, but I remember a couple years ago a trade getting voided after it went through and the players reported and had their physicals because one team didn't like what they found in the physical.

Also fwiw:
Jeff Van Gundy on Zach Lowe's podcast today says he doesn't think there is anyway Riley did what that report said. JVG said Riley is way too professional and doesn't need to pretend to be tough for people to know that he is.

And Bobby Marks on Doogie's podcast said it's "rare" for a trade not to go through after medicals have been exchanged but he did it once when he worked for the Nets. Also, he still thinks Butler ends up in Miami.

[Macwolf527]

The Winslow signing could be a part of things to come. He could be used in place of a draft pick to either the Wolves or the Kings. The Wolves really sound like they want to move Dieng, so I’m guessing the Heat pick and Dieng would go to the Kings with the Wolves swallowing Waiters and getting Richardson and Winslow. The Heat would get Butler and a smaller contract from the Kings, like McLemore. It would work even with Winslow’s poison pill, because the Wolves are sending out 35 mil and taking back about 32 mil.

They save a few million to probably bring in Noah as a backup center, but Nunnally probably gets cut to make room on the roster. We are much better defensively on the wings with Richardson and Winslow in the mix, without Jimmy in the fold.

[shangrila]

I don't get why people think what Thibs did in the Heat-Wolves deal is scummy.

We were about to take a Jrich+Waiters+1st round pick deal until we saw the medical info..Dion Waiters is STILL hurt and has had a lingering injury for awhile..

Thibs obviously didn't like what we saw on the medical report and wanted an additional asset. Good, i'm glad he didn't just accept it.

Waiters is negative value that's only there to match the cheap salary of JRich. The 1st round pick will probably be in the 20+ range so that's pretty trash too..

I still believe that Jimmy is going to end up on the Heat soon

Good post. Funny that no one seems to mention that Waiters medicals might have killed the deal, with Riley sending us damaged goods.

I don't remember what the trade was, but I remember a couple years ago a trade getting voided after it went through and the players reported and had their physicals because one team didn't like what they found in the physical.

Also fwiw:
Jeff Van Gundy on Zach Lowe's podcast today says he doesn't think there is anyway Riley did what that report said. JVG said Riley is way too professional and doesn't need to pretend to be tough for people to know that he is.

And Bobby Marks on Doogie's podcast said it's "rare" for a trade not to go through after medicals have been exchanged but he did it once when he worked for the Nets. Also, he still thinks Butler ends up in Miami.

Probably Tyson Chandler to the Thunder. Can't remember what they had offered for him but the Thunder vetoed it after they found he had a toe injury or something.

[shangrila]

The Winslow signing could be a part of things to come. He could be used in place of a draft pick to either the Wolves or the Kings. The Wolves really sound like they want to move Dieng, so I’m guessing the Heat pick and Dieng would go to the Kings with the Wolves swallowing Waiters and getting Richardson and Winslow. The Heat would get Butler and a smaller contract from the Kings, like McLemore. It would work even with Winslow’s poison pill, because the Wolves are sending out 35 mil and taking back about 32 mil.

They save a few million to probably bring in Noah as a backup center, but Nunnally probably gets cut to make room on the roster. We are much better defensively on the wings with Richardson and Winslow in the mix, without Jimmy in the fold.

Doesn't work that way. Winslow would be under the Poison Pill Provision which I think means we have to be able to absorb his extension salary and not what he's on right now, but the Heat only count him as his current salary making it a 6-7mil difference that we really can't make up.

[old school 34]

The Winslow signing could be a part of things to come. He could be used in place of a draft pick to either the Wolves or the Kings. The Wolves really sound like they want to move Dieng, so I’m guessing the Heat pick and Dieng would go to the Kings with the Wolves swallowing Waiters and getting Richardson and Winslow. The Heat would get Butler and a smaller contract from the Kings, like McLemore. It would work even with Winslow’s poison pill, because the Wolves are sending out 35 mil and taking back about 32 mil.

They save a few million to probably bring in Noah as a backup center, but Nunnally probably gets cut to make room on the roster. We are much better defensively on the wings with Richardson and Winslow in the mix, without Jimmy in the fold.

Doesn't work that way. Winslow would be under the Poison Pill Provision which I think means we have to be able to absorb his extension salary and not what he's on right now, but the Heat only count him as his current salary making it a 6-7mil difference that we really can't make up.

It does work w/ the Trade machine on Espn & it does note that it's applying the 'poison pill' logic? Not a great salary cap mind, but per my understanding & by including Sac in the deal I think some variation of that could be done like that. In the deal set above, the only thing I think might be the case is McLemore probably goes to us as well (which works as well) & keeps Mia from taking in more money (from this year lux taxes purposes). So we essentially get JRich/Winslow/McLemore's expiring for JB & swap Dieng's bad deal for Waiters....Sac gets Mia's protected for taking Dieng. If we wanted to then add a pick as well to Sac---maybe we could send Dion to Sac for one of their other expirings as well (but if we were close to considering taking him in a different deal earlier...I'm guessing we'd keep the pick & figure it out later). Essentially pretty close to the same deal that was almost reportedly done...except we get rid of Dieng in this one & swap an extended Winslow for the protected 1st.

Think this might be best case scenario for all parties?

[Macwolf527]

The Winslow signing could be a part of things to come. He could be used in place of a draft pick to either the Wolves or the Kings. The Wolves really sound like they want to move Dieng, so I’m guessing the Heat pick and Dieng would go to the Kings with the Wolves swallowing Waiters and getting Richardson and Winslow. The Heat would get Butler and a smaller contract from the Kings, like McLemore. It would work even with Winslow’s poison pill, because the Wolves are sending out 35 mil and taking back about 32 mil.

They save a few million to probably bring in Noah as a backup center, but Nunnally probably gets cut to make room on the roster. We are much better defensively on the wings with Richardson and Winslow in the mix, without Jimmy in the fold.

Doesn't work that way. Winslow would be under the Poison Pill Provision which I think means we have to be able to absorb his extension salary and not what he's on right now, but the Heat only count him as his current salary making it a 6-7mil difference that we really can't make up.

It does work w/ the Trade machine on Espn & it does note that it's applying the 'poison pill' logic? Not a great salary cap mind, but per my understanding & by including Sac in the deal I think some variation of that could be done like that. In the deal set above, the only thing I think might be the case is McLemore probably goes to us as well (which works as well) & keeps Mia from taking in more money (from this year lux taxes purposes). So we essentially get JRich/Winslow/McLemore's expiring for JB & swap Dieng's bad deal for Waiters....Sac gets Mia's protected for taking Dieng. If we wanted to then add a pick as well to Sac---maybe we could send Dion to Sac for one of their other expirings as well (but if we were close to considering taking him in a different deal earlier...I'm guessing we'd keep the pick & figure it out later). Essentially pretty close to the same deal that was almost reportedly done...except we get rid of Dieng in this one & swap an extended Winslow for the protected 1st.

Think this might be best case scenario for all parties?

Shangrila, I think you overlooked the Sacramento effect of taking on cap space for the Wolves to add salary. I don’t want McLemore in that trade because it’s redundant based on what we’re bringing in with Rose and Okogie already in the fold. I’d like that wing rotation of Richardson, Wiggins, Okogie and Winslow. That would be a defensive juggernaut if Wiggins showed up to the party. Waiters might be a nice combo guard down the road once he heals but I don’t see him as a long term option. Most likely an effort will be to move him in the future. For all intense purposes, he can get hot on occasion.