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Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#641 » by Klomp » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:24 pm

minimus wrote:
Read on Twitter


Billy Beane - "Adapt or die"

The other necessary adjustment came from Porzingis. In New York, Porzingis posted up liberally in an offense that encouraged him to. In his final abbreviated season, he averaged 4.6 shot attempts out of the post per game, fourth-most in the league. He averaged 0.96 points on those possessions, a great result for a post-up. (It put Porzingis in the league’s 73rd percentile.) But it is not a great result for his new offense and its historic 1.16 points per possession.

In the month that followed, though, Porzingis increasingly embraced the role Dallas had envisioned for him: a player whose mere presence unlocked the offense when he stood behind the arc and whose role was to finish scoring opportunities rather than create for himself. The day after Christmas, the Mavericks beat the Spurs in a rather forgettable game broadcast on TNT. At halftime, Charles Barkley and Shaquille O’Neal spent most of the segment criticizing Porzingis for not posting up. “Rick Carlisle has got to say, ‘Yo, (Porzingis), we need you to be aggressive. We can’t rely on Doncic every night.” It was then made clear that “aggression” for Porzingis meant backing opponents down, as Barkley and O’Neal once had in their own careers.

A team source doubts Carlisle had seen or heard the segment before he was asked about it during his post-game press conference. Instead, the three-minute rant that followed was inspired largely from conversations that had already been happening with Porzingis. “The post-up just isn’t a good play anymore,” Carlisle said in response, among other things. “Our numbers are very substantial that when he spaces beyond the 3-point line, you know, we’re a historically good offensive team.”

By then, Dallas had risen not only to the top of the league but to the historic pace they have now achieved. Carlisle wanted to provide affirmation to Porzingis that the role he was starting to embrace, the one they wanted for him, was the right one. Porzingis started the year adamant that he viewed himself as a four and preferred to play that way, a team source says. But his mind has changed as the year progressed, and Dwight Powell’s season-ending injury, however unfortunate, only confirmed his feelings.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#642 » by KGdaBom » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:31 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
+100500

-100500


Read on Twitter


Billy Beane - "Adapt or die"

This surprises me because Luka is a poor shooter from 3 31.6% but takes a lot of them 8.9 per game. He makes up for it a bit shooting very well from 2 57.4%. The rest of the team must be very efficient.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#643 » by minimus » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:46 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:-100500


Read on Twitter


Billy Beane - "Adapt or die"

This surprises me because Luka is a poor shooter from 3 31.6% but takes a lot of them 8.9 per game. He makes up for it a bit shooting very well from 2 57.4%. The rest of the team must be very efficient.


Luka generates entire DAL offense, he leads NBA in touches, while he is not an efficient 3pt shooter, he is dynamic enough to be an elite scorer because of his creativity, passing skills, court vision and FTs. The difficulty of those 3pt shots is very high as well, for instance, he is not afraid to take stepback 3pointer couple of feets above 3pt line. Once he learns how avoid stupid mistakes and maintain balance between forcing shots and creating shots, he will be unstoppable.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#644 » by KGdaBom » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:25 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Read on Twitter


Billy Beane - "Adapt or die"

This surprises me because Luka is a poor shooter from 3 31.6% but takes a lot of them 8.9 per game. He makes up for it a bit shooting very well from 2 57.4%. The rest of the team must be very efficient.


Luka generates entire DAL offense, he leads NBA in touches, while he is not an efficient 3pt shooter, he is dynamic enough to be an elite scorer because of his creativity, passing skills, court vision and FTs. The difficulty of those 3pt shots is very high as well, for instance, he is not afraid to take stepback 3pointer couple of feets above 3pt line. Once he learns how avoid stupid mistakes and maintain balance between forcing shots and creating shots, he will be unstoppable.

He's an incredible talent. He's not an efficient scorer. Difficulty of shots means nothing to me. If the shot is too difficult try to find a better one or pass it off.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#645 » by MN7725 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:43 am

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Read on Twitter


Billy Beane - "Adapt or die"

This surprises me because Luka is a poor shooter from 3 31.6% but takes a lot of them 8.9 per game. He makes up for it a bit shooting very well from 2 57.4%. The rest of the team must be very efficient.


Luka generates entire DAL offense, he leads NBA in touches, while he is not an efficient 3pt shooter, he is dynamic enough to be an elite scorer because of his creativity, passing skills, court vision and FTs. The difficulty of those 3pt shots is very high as well, for instance, he is not afraid to take stepback 3pointer couple of feets above 3pt line. Once he learns how avoid stupid mistakes and maintain balance between forcing shots and creating shots, he will be unstoppable.


Some podcast was talking about the amount of bailout, end of shot clock shots Luka takes for Dallas, way way more than anyone else in the league

Even with that, he's at 59% TS which is same as Butler did in his full MN season

If Dallas gets another legit creator so Luka doesn't have to take so many of those hand grenade shots, he'll surpass even Harden for volume/efficiency

Would think KP could get some of those garbage shots since he can get his shot off over anyone, but doesn't happen for some reason
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#646 » by KGdaBom » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:15 am

MN7725 wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:This surprises me because Luka is a poor shooter from 3 31.6% but takes a lot of them 8.9 per game. He makes up for it a bit shooting very well from 2 57.4%. The rest of the team must be very efficient.


Luka generates entire DAL offense, he leads NBA in touches, while he is not an efficient 3pt shooter, he is dynamic enough to be an elite scorer because of his creativity, passing skills, court vision and FTs. The difficulty of those 3pt shots is very high as well, for instance, he is not afraid to take stepback 3pointer couple of feets above 3pt line. Once he learns how avoid stupid mistakes and maintain balance between forcing shots and creating shots, he will be unstoppable.


Some podcast was talking about the amount of bailout, end of shot clock shots Luka takes for Dallas, way way more than anyone else in the league

Even with that, he's at 59% TS which is same as Butler did in his full MN season

If Dallas gets another legit creator so Luka doesn't have to take so many of those hand grenade shots, he'll surpass even Harden for volume/efficiency

Would think KP could get some of those garbage shots since he can get his shot off over anyone, but doesn't happen for some reason

A couple of points. If Luka is forced into taking way, way more bad shots than anyone else in the league, maybe their offense isn't so great. I'm not certain about true shooting, but his career EFG is 51.5% and last year was 53.1%. Not bad, but far from anything special.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#647 » by minimus » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:10 am

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:This surprises me because Luka is a poor shooter from 3 31.6% but takes a lot of them 8.9 per game. He makes up for it a bit shooting very well from 2 57.4%. The rest of the team must be very efficient.


Luka generates entire DAL offense, he leads NBA in touches, while he is not an efficient 3pt shooter, he is dynamic enough to be an elite scorer because of his creativity, passing skills, court vision and FTs. The difficulty of those 3pt shots is very high as well, for instance, he is not afraid to take stepback 3pointer couple of feets above 3pt line. Once he learns how avoid stupid mistakes and maintain balance between forcing shots and creating shots, he will be unstoppable.

He's an incredible talent. He's not an efficient scorer. Difficulty of shots means nothing to me. If the shot is too difficult try to find a better one or pass it off.


Difficulty of shots does not mean anything for you, but they are essential for team offense. I.e. best players should take the most difficult shots, while role players should play within their roles. That's why DAL offense is elite.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#648 » by Jedzz » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:58 am

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Luka generates entire DAL offense, he leads NBA in touches, while he is not an efficient 3pt shooter, he is dynamic enough to be an elite scorer because of his creativity, passing skills, court vision and FTs. The difficulty of those 3pt shots is very high as well, for instance, he is not afraid to take stepback 3pointer couple of feets above 3pt line. Once he learns how avoid stupid mistakes and maintain balance between forcing shots and creating shots, he will be unstoppable.

He's an incredible talent. He's not an efficient scorer. Difficulty of shots means nothing to me. If the shot is too difficult try to find a better one or pass it off.


Difficulty of shots does not mean anything for you, but they are essential for team offense. I.e. best players should take the most difficult shots, while role players should play within their roles. That's why DAL offense is elite.


Dlo kind of reminds me of this situation. He takes bailout end of possession shots. He'll take them with no space except that which he can create in spit hair of a second. Yet he hits enough of them to make the offense produce more, not that anyone would claim it's an amazing number. But these would likely be missed possessions otherwise. Earlier in clocks he's creating a bit more for others and willing to let the ball come back to him. Put better finishers and shooters around these kinds of players and they won't be forced to take as many of those last ditch effort end of clock shots.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#649 » by KGdaBom » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:38 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Luka generates entire DAL offense, he leads NBA in touches, while he is not an efficient 3pt shooter, he is dynamic enough to be an elite scorer because of his creativity, passing skills, court vision and FTs. The difficulty of those 3pt shots is very high as well, for instance, he is not afraid to take stepback 3pointer couple of feets above 3pt line. Once he learns how avoid stupid mistakes and maintain balance between forcing shots and creating shots, he will be unstoppable.

He's an incredible talent. He's not an efficient scorer. Difficulty of shots means nothing to me. If the shot is too difficult try to find a better one or pass it off.


Difficulty of shots does not mean anything for you, but they are essential for team offense. I.e. best players should take the most difficult shots, while role players should play within their roles. That's why DAL offense is elite.

The better the player the less difficult the shots he will have to take. You get open of you pass to somebody who is.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#650 » by minimus » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:41 pm

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OMG here we go again! Can't wait for this off-season!
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#651 » by minimus » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:23 pm

IMO the ideal 3rd star to add to KAT-DLo duet is an athletic comboguard who can play defense, can play lead ballhandler and create opportunities for himself and others. Guys like Oladipo, Donovan Mitchell, Bradley Beal, Caris LeVert, Malcolm Brogdon, Jrue Holiday would fit seamlessly.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#652 » by TheProdigy » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:43 pm

minimus wrote:IMO the ideal 3rd star to add to KAT-DLo duet is an athletic comboguard who can play defense, can play lead ballhandler and create opportunities for himself and others. Guys like Oladipo, Donovan Mitchell, Bradley Beal, Caris LeVert, Malcolm Brogdon, Jrue Holiday would fit seamlessly.

You didn't mention anything about shooting, so I would think Ben Simmons would be on that list as well. You won't find many guys who offer play making + defense like him.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#653 » by Jedzz » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:58 pm

minimus wrote:IMO the ideal 3rd star to add to KAT-DLo duet is an athletic comboguard who can play defense, can play lead ballhandler and create opportunities for himself and others. Guys like Oladipo, Donovan Mitchell, Bradley Beal, Caris LeVert, Malcolm Brogdon, Jrue Holiday would fit seamlessly.


'lol. You guys just keep wanting to replace Dlo. Dlo is not simply a 2guard. he's the player the team has chosen to run point and onball most of the time. Doesn't mean he can't play off now and then, Doesn't mean he wouldn't flick a pass at the top of a possession some times and for all intents and purposes be off ball for the rest, but again, that just some of the time. He's the creator here now. He's the ballhandler, he's setting the tone. he's here to pick and roll with Towns. Not Oladipo.

It would not "fit seamlessly". Dlo and whoever you brought in would end up producing less than you are used to seeing. Now that happens on any team of great players together. But the question is, should you be doing that to this position when the other positions aren't set in stone for sure with great players yet?

One thing is for sure. Beasley for the first time in his career is getting the minutes, ball and shots as much as he should be. Any additional high level guard brought in now is going to obviously cut that off at the ankles. He was a big part of the return of all the trades at deadline, and some of you just want to repace it and say see ya to any value he brought in. So this is now two positions you guys are likely to lessen value of where they were two good strength as is.

One problem with building a team is not cutting off your own hand to feed your foot. I just don't know man.

Forget Oladipo/LeVert/Holiday/beal. What on earth has any of them accomplished? No more than the guys we've got.

Get some damn real Wings. SF. 6-7 6-8 that can shoot and defend. Nothing else matters right now. You could leave the team just like it is if you could get Layman to play SF and defend like a boss and stay healthy. I don't know if that's possible so go trade for or draft one.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#654 » by Klomp » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:25 am

Everyone has the idea that we have the PG and C so fill the rest of the team with 3Ds. But remember Rosas doesn't come from a place where that was the philosophy. They brought in Eric Gordon. They brought in Chris Paul. This year they brought in Russell Westbrook. These are not 3Ds.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#655 » by TheZachAttack » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:40 am

Klomp wrote:Everyone has the idea that we have the PG and C so fill the rest of the team with 3Ds. But remember Rosas doesn't come from a place where that was the philosophy. They brought in Eric Gordon. They brought in Chris Paul. This year they brought in Russell Westbrook. These are not 3Ds.



Great point on Rosas coming from an organization that is willing to accumulate talent and quickly pivot on system based on personal/talent.

The Rockets traded Capela who a year prior they had identified as a core piece and a player they had a lot of success with to optimize one of their top players.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#656 » by Jedzz » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:21 am

Klomp wrote:Everyone has the idea that we have the PG and C so fill the rest of the team with 3Ds. But remember Rosas doesn't come from a place where that was the philosophy. They brought in Eric Gordon. They brought in Chris Paul. This year they brought in Russell Westbrook. These are not 3Ds.


and they weren't getting all the way. Traded for Covington (3nD) to make him their center. :lol:

The ties are obvious, but we can't keep using them as a cookie cutter because we have Towns here. So Rosas has to make that work with the roster too. Towns isn't our version of Covington for Houston.

I mean if we were to take all these explanations based on Rockets South reasonings with any seriousness, then Towns should be looking for his next gig elsewhere right now because he'll be the next Capella tossed out so the Wolves can trade in a 3nD SF/pf to play center here. But that's probably not going to happen, maybe, now I'm not so sure. Towns...watch your back.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#657 » by Jedzz » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:23 am

TheZachAttack wrote:
Klomp wrote:Everyone has the idea that we have the PG and C so fill the rest of the team with 3Ds. But remember Rosas doesn't come from a place where that was the philosophy. They brought in Eric Gordon. They brought in Chris Paul. This year they brought in Russell Westbrook. These are not 3Ds.



Great point on Rosas coming from an organization that is willing to accumulate talent and quickly pivot on system based on personal/talent.

The Rockets traded Capela who a year prior they had identified as a core piece and a player they had a lot of success with to optimize one of their top players.


So what you are saying is that Rosas is going to trade Towns to optimize Dlo and Edwards as a pair? Ok. If that's what you are saying then just say it. But this is a tall suggestion.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#658 » by Dewey » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:56 am

Not sure the check-list Rosas tries to abide by, but it seems pretty simple ...

1. Best Player Available (skills, athleticism, IQ)
2. Teammate
3. Coachable

The BPA has to be taken with a grain of salt ... lots of players can fit that mode, but knowing how coachable and how they are perceived as a teammate are both key.

I’d be curious to know how these prospects are perceived by teammates, coaches, opponents, local communities, etc... when your trying to change the culture of your franchise you rely on the culture coming in.

Can Wiseman be great? Does Wiseman want to be great? Is MN a great fit? What is the franchise’ role and responsibility to help Wiseman become great? Does anyone know what great looks like?

Ha, anyway...
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#659 » by TheZachAttack » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:34 pm

Jedzz wrote:
TheZachAttack wrote:
Klomp wrote:Everyone has the idea that we have the PG and C so fill the rest of the team with 3Ds. But remember Rosas doesn't come from a place where that was the philosophy. They brought in Eric Gordon. They brought in Chris Paul. This year they brought in Russell Westbrook. These are not 3Ds.



Great point on Rosas coming from an organization that is willing to accumulate talent and quickly pivot on system based on personal/talent.

The Rockets traded Capela who a year prior they had identified as a core piece and a player they had a lot of success with to optimize one of their top players.


So what you are saying is that Rosas is going to trade Towns to optimize Dlo and Edwards as a pair? Ok. If that's what you are saying then just say it. But this is a tall suggestion.


That’s not what I said at all. If anything, I said the opposite. However, that wasn’t by any means my point.
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Re: Constructing the Timberwolves rotation 

Post#660 » by Jedzz » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:05 pm

TheZachAttack wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
TheZachAttack wrote:

Great point on Rosas coming from an organization that is willing to accumulate talent and quickly pivot on system based on personal/talent.

The Rockets traded Capela who a year prior they had identified as a core piece and a player they had a lot of success with to optimize one of their top players.


So what you are saying is that Rosas is going to trade Towns to optimize Dlo and Edwards as a pair? Ok. If that's what you are saying then just say it. But this is a tall suggestion.


That’s not what I said at all. If anything, I said the opposite. However, that wasn’t by any means my point.


okay I stand corrected. I didnt' get the point then.

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