[Krawczynski] Alex Rodriguez and Marc Lore in serious talks to become the next owners of the Minnesota Timberwolves

[BlacJacMac]

If he didn't have the money, why would he of tried to buy it in the first place if he didn't think he could afford it? Does that make sense to you?

It wouldn't normally.

But the idea that he's been trying to raise the money by charging a much higher valuation, sure looks like he's trying to acquire the team with profits he can make before even owning the club.

That's arod, not Lore. But that it also how business works in today's capitalism society

Its both of them. Unless you believe it was only ARod bringing in (first) Carlyle and than Dyer when that fell through?

[HartfordWhalers]

The whole thing is weird. It seems like every reference to Lore being worth 4 Billion is based on that's what he told the NBA he was worth.

Yet no numbers anywhere else seem to support that theory.

I want Lore to be the guy he says he is, but I'm getting more and more worried he's just a 21st century P.T. Barnum.

If he didn't have the money, why would he have tried to buy it in the first place if he didn't think he could afford it? Does that make sense to you?

He didn’t agree to buy the team though.

He agreed to have a series of options. If he had the money and the team was worth it, he could keep buying the team at a preset price.

If he didn’t have the money or didn’t like the price at any point, he could just pick to not exercise the option and walk away.

This wasn’t ever a fully agreed to sale, a fact court proven when the minority partner Orbit sued Taylor already over the deal.

[thinktank]

Wolves sale price = 1.5 billion

ARod and Lore's agreement with Taylor outlines that they each need to own 30% (60% between the two of them) and 20% more in private equity. Taylor keeps 20%. 30 + 30 + 20 + 20 = 100.

30% of 1.5 billion = 450 million.

Forbes says Lore is worth AT LEAST 500 million.

Is AT LEAST 500 million greater than 450 million?

Yes!

The rest of this is just a wild goose chase distraction.

That wouldn't be a huge red flag to you? That he could theoretically have a full 90% of his Net Worth tied up in Wolves ownership?

Some posters here are trying to tell you Lore is worth only 650 million or 500 million, etc.

I think he’s worth a lot more than that. Forbes and ESPN are not the final arbiters of his or anyone’s wealth. (And even Forbes said “at least”.)

Go read Lore’s wiki page. He has already bought and sold businesses with values totaling in the multi-billion dollar range:

“ Lore was appointed in September 2016 to lead Walmart's e-commerce division when his company Jet.com—an e-commerce website launched in 2014—was acquired by Walmart, Inc. Walmart purchased Jet for $3.3 billion.[6]”

“ Quidsi was sold in 2011 to Amazon for $545 million.[7]”

“ In 2005, Lore and Vinit Bharara founded 1800DIAPERS, later rebranded as Diapers.com.[29] Lore was CEO.[30] The company was sold to Amazon in 2011 for $545 million,[31]”

We don’t know exactly how much Lore made as a part of these deals, but my guess is the Wolves money is not an issue for him. Those sales were made a long time ago and the market has more than doubled since then.

SP500 = ~2,000 in 2015
SP500 = ~5,000 in 2024

Re Jet: “ Separate from these incentives, Lore will receive somewhere between $450 million and $750 million in cash from the deal.”

That was written in 2016. I would guess he has at least double that now. You don’t get named best executive in America for nothing.

He was also the highest paid executive in America for some time.

Other people are entitled to their opinions.

It’s funny people are bent out of shape about Lore but not ARod.

If anybody couldn’t afford the Wolves deal it’s ARod, not Lore.

[Calinks]

Alright. Let's get off the sugject of trying to dig into a particular posters credibility or people's backgrounds if they aren't willing to do so. Please tick to discussing things relevant to the team and the topics at hand. If you don't want to consider a posters opinion on the subject, you don't have to, we don't need to get people's bonafides to speculate about our favorite team. Shrink stop asking thinktank to reveal that information, thinktank, someone questioning the veracity of some of your claims is not always a personal attack. That said, no one is obligated to share anything they don't want to. Stay on the topic of the team and sugjects associated with that, not each other.

[thinktank]

Alright. Let's get off the sugject of trying to dig into a particular posters credibility or people's backgrounds if they aren't willing to do so. Please tick to discussing things relevant to the team and the topics at hand. If you don't want to consider a posters opinion on the subject, you don't have to, we don't need to get people's bonafides to speculate about our favorite team. Shrink stop asking thinktank to reveal that information, thinktank, someone questioning the veracity of some of your claims is not always a personal attack. That said, no one is obligated to share anything they don't want to. Stay on the topic of the team and sugjects associated with that, not each other.

Thank you.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

"If the incumbent owner wants to get a deal done, these things get done."

This whole saga is about Glen deciding 3 years later, oops I made a bad deal so how can I get out of it. This isn't about him feeling like Marc and Alex broke their word, because if he still wanted to sell the team, he would still sell. It is 100% seller's remorse.

[Klomp]

This clip right here is really a great summation of the entire situation from both sides to me:

Read on Twitter

[guest81]

The whole thing is weird. It seems like every reference to Lore being worth 4 Billion is based on that's what he told the NBA he was worth.

Yet no numbers anywhere else seem to support that theory.

I want Lore to be the guy he says he is, but I'm getting more and more worried he's just a 21st century P.T. Barnum.

If he didn't have the money, why would he have tried to buy it in the first place if he didn't think he could afford it? Does that make sense to you?

He didn’t agree to buy the team though.

He agreed to have a series of options. If he had the money and the team was worth it, he could keep buying the team at a preset price.

If he didn’t have the money or didn’t like the price at any point, he could just pick to not exercise the option and walk away.

This wasn’t ever a fully agreed to sale, a fact court proven when the minority partner Orbit sued Taylor already over the deal.

Depends on who you believe. According to Lore and arod, it was glens idea to do it over time so Glen could still hold onto the team a little longer. Taylor could be right, but he's been full of **** before so I tend to believe more in Lore, who doesn't have that track record

[shrink]

To use an analogy, it's like if I agreed to buy you a house, but you bought me a cup a coffee so you should get a bunch of credit for spending

No. They paid TAYLOR that money, not the team.

For example, they hired Tim Conley and promised him $8 mil a year, so in the first two years, Connelly got $16 mil.
Lore paid Connelly $1.6 + $2.9 so $4.5 mil. Taylor (and some limited partners) wrote checks for $11.5.

Using your analogy, Lore put a down some money on a house, and agreed to buy it in a few years, told the current owner he wanted a stylish patio, made the current owner pay the bulk of the patio he picked out, isn’t reimbursing the owner for the extra value it brings the house, and then told visitors “Enjoy the patio I brought for the house!”

I would say it's more hey this super expensive house has a hole in the roof of you could fix it before we move in.

They've paid Glen like 600 million to Glen personally, Glen paid 8 of that million to hire a PBO, who has significantly raised the value of the Timberwolves way past the 8 million that he was worth.

Not sure where your giving Glen this credit for. Wolves needed a gm, Glen was still the majority owner so of course he should of paid for it. Unless your suggesting that Glen would be in the right if he wanted to hire someone on the cheap like another David khan.

8 million is like 8 dollars to a guy life Glen. Add in All the money Lore and arod have given and would of gave, that 8 million becomes like 8 pennies

I believe $8 mil is the second highest salary for a GM. Pat Riley makes $11, but he’s GM and president. RC Buford makes $10.

While I love the work Connelly has done, no, Glen Taylor didn’t have to agree to pay $8 mil for a GM, and when he made this agreement, there was no guarantee it would raise the value of the team. In fact, months after the Rudy trade, I was the one asking to change the Connelly title from “Fire Tim Connelly.”

Yes, ARod and Lore get credit for asking Connelly. And while people hate to give Taylor credit for anything, he gets credit for agreeing to pay him the bulk of that big salary. That was his $8 mil a year - he was not required to put it back into the team by paying for the second most expensive GM in the NBA. What I dislike is ARod and Lore taking full credit for Connelly, and every good move he has done. If we’re being honest, both sides deserve credit.

[thinktank]

Only Glen Taylor tries to pull a fast one like this.

He pulled it on the team, the coach, the GM, the fans… everybody.

And he did it at the worst possible time.

Greed is a hell of a drug.

[shrink]

The whole thing is weird. It seems like every reference to Lore being worth 4 Billion is based on that's what he told the NBA he was worth.

Yet no numbers anywhere else seem to support that theory.

I want Lore to be the guy he says he is, but I'm getting more and more worried he's just a 21st century P.T. Barnum.

If he didn't have the money, why would he have tried to buy it in the first place if he didn't think he could afford it? Does that make sense to you?

He didn’t agree to buy the team though.

He agreed to have a series of options. If he had the money and the team was worth it, he could keep buying the team at a preset price.

If he didn’t have the money or didn’t like the price at any point, he could just pick to not exercise the option and walk away.

This wasn’t ever a fully agreed to sale, a fact court proven when the minority partner Orbit sued Taylor already over the deal.

Correct. And both Lore and Taylor could have been totally honest at the time of the deal, when they said they believed Lore could raise enough money in the next three years.

[Baseline81]

This whole saga is about Glen deciding 3 years later, oops I made a bad deal so how can I get out of it. This isn't about him feeling like Marc and Alex broke their word, because if he still wanted to sell the team, he would still sell. It is 100% seller's remorse.

[Klomp]

If he didn't have the money, why would he have tried to buy it in the first place if he didn't think he could afford it? Does that make sense to you?

He didn’t agree to buy the team though.

He agreed to have a series of options. If he had the money and the team was worth it, he could keep buying the team at a preset price.

If he didn’t have the money or didn’t like the price at any point, he could just pick to not exercise the option and walk away.

This wasn’t ever a fully agreed to sale, a fact court proven when the minority partner Orbit sued Taylor already over the deal.

Depends on who you believe. According to Lore and arod, it was glens idea to do it over time so Glen could still hold onto the team a little longer. Taylor could be right, but he's been full of **** before so I tend to believe more in Lore, who doesn't have that track record

The Shams video is very enlightening to me.

The NBA is still reviewing the contract regarding the sale of the team. It is not sold yet. Yet Taylor believes he is entitled to have in his possession the full money owed in the contract, even though the contract has not yet been officially approved by the NBA. That's greed.

[Baseline81]

Yes, ARod and Lore get credit for asking Connelly. And while people hate to give Taylor credit for anything, he gets credit for agreeing to pay him the bulk of that big salary. That was his $8 mil a year - he was not required to put it back into the team by paying for the second most expensive GM in the NBA. What I dislike is ARod and Lore taking full credit for Connelly, and every good move he has done. If we’re being honest, both sides deserve credit.

Again, there are levels.

If one party does all the leg work and the other simply foots the bill, are you telling me the two should be given an equal amount?

[Nick K]

The whole thing is weird. It seems like every reference to Lore being worth 4 Billion is based on that's what he told the NBA he was worth.

Yet no numbers anywhere else seem to support that theory.

I want Lore to be the guy he says he is, but I'm getting more and more worried he's just a 21st century P.T. Barnum.

If he didn't have the money, why would he of tried to buy it in the first place if he didn't think he could afford it? Does that make sense to you?

Pretty simple logic isn't it?

Does anyone really think Glen Taylor didn't do his financial due diligence on Lore and Arod before he even sat down with them? I think so. Would Taylor have even bothered dealing with them if they didn't have the money is a great question.

The other thing no one talks about is that the Wolves are expected to make a small profit this year and next. Attendance, concessions, parking and largely TV contracts pay the bills. So it's not like Lore has to spend hundreds of millions out of pocket to keep the team afloat.

[KGdaBom]

I'm not going to waste my time further. I've laid out in detail the overall financial backing of the Lo/rod group including Dyal group and former Google CEO Eric Schmidt. Splitting hairs on Lore's net worth is meaningless! You have to look at the ownership group in total.

I've described my business.credentials. You haven't. BTW, I'm not comfortable with your financial knowledge. Quite the contrary. However, you are entitled to you own opinion. I respect that. I just think you are misguided here and your argument is fauty. Nothing more. Regards.

It seems that Lore and A Rod don't have their own money they need to rely on Schmidt and Dyal Group. I'd prefer having the owners actually be the people with the financial investment than investors into their investment.

Just one other thing KGdabom, do you think Glen Taylor would have offered to sell Lo/Rod this team 3 years ago if they didn't have the ability to buy it? Don't you think Taylor did his due diligence of them at that time when it all started?

Why would you be worried or even care? Of course they have the money. Do you want a snake of an owner that makes historically bad decisions for the team to continue to own the team?

It's my understanding that Taylor specifically asked them to buy this over a 3 year period so he could stay on board for the transition.

Have you been happy with Lo/Rods direction of the club with the Gobert and Connelly hires? Then what's the issue?

Did you watch the Lo/Rod rebuttal video that Dane did and was posted?

This has nothing to do with what I want. It has everything to do with the purchase contract. Have A Rod and Lore defaulted on the purchase contract? Simple yes or no. If they have have Glen has the right to cancel the sale. If they haven't defaulted then let the sales process move forward. I have doubts that the NBA board of Governors will approve the sale with the financing arrangement that Lore and A Rod have proposed.

[guest81]

No. They paid TAYLOR that money, not the team.

For example, they hired Tim Conley and promised him $8 mil a year, so in the first two years, Connelly got $16 mil.
Lore paid Connelly $1.6 + $2.9 so $4.5 mil. Taylor (and some limited partners) wrote checks for $11.5.

Using your analogy, Lore put a down some money on a house, and agreed to buy it in a few years, told the current owner he wanted a stylish patio, made the current owner pay the bulk of the patio he picked out, isn’t reimbursing the owner for the extra value it brings the house, and then told visitors “Enjoy the patio I brought for the house!”

I would say it's more hey this super expensive house has a hole in the roof of you could fix it before we move in.

They've paid Glen like 600 million to Glen personally, Glen paid 8 of that million to hire a PBO, who has significantly raised the value of the Timberwolves way past the 8 million that he was worth.

Not sure where your giving Glen this credit for. Wolves needed a gm, Glen was still the majority owner so of course he should of paid for it. Unless your suggesting that Glen would be in the right if he wanted to hire someone on the cheap like another David khan.

8 million is like 8 dollars to a guy life Glen. Add in All the money Lore and arod have given and would of gave, that 8 million becomes like 8 pennies

I believe $8 mil is the second highest salary for a GM. Pat Riley makes $11, but he’s GM and president. RC Buford makes $10.

While I love the work Connelly has done, no, Glen Taylor didn’t have to agree to pay $8 mil for a GM, and when he made this agreement, there was no guarantee it would raise the value of the team. In fact, months after the Rudy trade, I was the one asking to change the Connelly title from “Fire Tim Connelly.”

Yes, ARod and Lore get credit for asking Connelly. And while people hate to give Taylor credit for anything, he gets credit for agreeing to pay him the bulk of that big salary. That was his $8 mil a year - he was not required to put it back into the team by paying for the second most expensive GM in the NBA. What I dislike is ARod and Lore taking full credit for Connelly, and every good move he has done. If we’re being honest, both sides deserve credit.

Yes, he paid 8 million, but in the end, he's getting 1.5 billion so what is 8 million in comparison. Do you not get that part?

[Nick K]

Read on Twitter

"If the incumbent owner wants to get a deal done, these things get done."

This whole saga is about Glen deciding 3 years later, oops I made a bad deal so how can I get out of it. This isn't about him feeling like Marc and Alex broke their word, because if he still wanted to sell the team, he would still sell. It is 100% seller's remorse.

Right again Klomp. That's it in a nutshell.

[KGdaBom]

They aren't even officially in litigation yet?

Close enough.

What would someone who is on the up and up have to worry about litigation? Especially someone who claims to be looking forward to working with ARod and Lore...

If they're talking litigation they're the ones not working with Glen. Locking them out is an obvious step.

[Klomp]

I have doubts that the NBA board of Governors will approve the sale with the financing arrangement that Lore and A Rod have proposed.

Why? Do you think private equity firms are some unknown, foreign concept to the NBA? Because they're not.

The NBA’s plan to lure private equity money is in motion, and it’s betting on the allure of owning limited partnerships in its clubs will pay off.

With valuations in clubs rising to astronomical levels, the NBA joined the private equity chase when owners approved a plan to allow investment firms to own stakes in teams. NBA executive J.B. Lockhart is one the individuals who oversees this strategy and the league picked Dyal Capital as its partner.

They way it works: The NBA rounds up stakes in clubs and sells them to private equity firms like Dyal, who can then technically sell the limited partnerships (LPs) to private investors. Last May, Barron’s reported Dyal was seeking to raise $2 billion to purchase the LPs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/25/the-nbas-private-equity-plan-is-in-motion-and-its-betting-on-the-allure-spownership.html