Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[shrink]

Would you trade KA, Shake Milton for RoCo and Pat Beverley?

While I’ve always liked Covington since his PHI days, I don’t see the need or minutes for him, even if we trade Anderson.

And while the Beverley days were fun, I think his time is passed. He has trashed the Wolves several times on his podcast since leaving, and I would worry that he would want to be a leader again. We needed him two years ago, but right now we need the adult to be Mike Conley.

[shrink]

While I’m always focused on the difficult salary-matching-roster-minimums problems we’d face in a trade, we have another big one - adding value. I don’t see us trading our core 7-8 players, but after that we are tightly constrained on the incentive we could give a team so we could add even a rotation player.

One idea I had to discover value (that I admit I can’t make work), is to offer to remove the Top 5 protections on the 2029 MIN 1st. Danny Ainge would likely pay a lot for that (look what he paid to get the Lakers pick in the DLo trade). The Jazz also likely to trade away almost any player on their roster for future picks, so we’d have access to most of their players. They don’t fit us, but a three team trade might make sense (again, like the DLo trade), where we send Jazz assets out and bring back a rotation player that could help now and going forward.

Now, I know trading away Top 5 protection is dangerous, even on a pick we already owe, and no one can predict what their team will look like in 2029. However, this is a vote of confidence in the organization, to maximize the value of a pick that I feel we will likely lose anyway. I still struggle with the salary matching component, but you could likely select the player you want to upgrade with this value. We should keep an eye on where the Jazz assets fit best, and see if they have an older piece (that the Jazz wouldn’t want anyway) that works best for us.

[cmoss84]

IF we decide to trade SloMo, who are some potential suitors?

[shrink]

If there was a trade for a SloMo upgrade, two targets I’d have are Tre Jones and Alex Caruso. Both make about what Anderson does, and both have a cheap second season. I have seen a couple teams say they would trade a lottery protected 1st for Kyle, so I could envision

MIN OUT Anderson
MIN IN. Jones

BOS OUT: filler and lottery protected 1st
BOS IN: Anderson

SAS OUT: jones
SAS IN: filler and lottery protected 1st

Caruso’s worth more, so we’d need value from UTA and the pick

MIN OUT Anderson + remove top 5 protection
MIN IN. Caruso

BOS OUT: filler and lottery protected 1st
BOS IN: Anderson

UTA OUT: decent young players
UTA IN: filler and remove top 5 protection

CHI OUT: Caruso
CHI IN: decent young players and BOS lottery protected 1st

Last point - protections allow flexibility, just like using Garza or Moore Jr. Maybe we only need to make the protections top 3, or even top 1 to get Utah in the deal

[winforlose]

If there was a trade for a SloMo upgrade, two targets I’d have are Tre Jones and Alex Caruso. Both make about what Anderson does, and both have a cheap second season. I have seen a couple teams say they would trade a lottery protected 1st for Kyle, so I could envision

MIN OUT Anderson
MIN IN. Jones

BOS OUT: filler and lottery protected 1st
BOS IN: Anderson

SAS OUT: jones
SAS IN: filler and lottery protected 1st

Caruso’s worth more, so we’d need value from UTA and the pick

MIN OUT Anderson + remove top 5 protection
MIN IN. Caruso

BOS OUT: filler and lottery protected 1st
BOS IN: Anderson

UTA OUT: decent young players
UTA IN: filler and remove top 5 protection

CHI OUT: Caruso
CHI IN: decent young players and BOS lottery protected 1st

Last point - protections allow flexibility, just like using Garza or Moore Jr. Maybe we only need to make the protections top 3, or even top 1 to get Utah in the deal

I don’t think Caruso is moving, or that we can afford him. Tre Jones makes more than Kyle, and I am not sure he floor spaces well enough. I think the buyout market will be interesting and we can afford to explore it by trading Moore for cap space. I still think any PG must shoot league average or better from 3 or we end up stuck in the same Kyle problem.

[shrink]

Keep in mind though, hard to find two way players under $10mil

[BlacJacMac]

Would you trade KA, Shake Milton for RoCo and Pat Beverley?

While I’ve always liked Covington since his PHI days, I don’t see the need or minutes for him, even if we trade Anderson.

And while the Beverley days were fun, I think his time is passed. He has trashed the Wolves several times on his podcast since leaving, and I would worry that he would want to be a leader again. We needed him two years ago, but right now we need the adult to be Mike Conley.

Agreed. I think Bev might be at the point where he's more distraction than player.

And I still love RoCo, but his strength is team/help defense, but he's gotten worse and worse at man defense to the point that you can hunt him. So he really doesn't really replace SloMo's ability to take on a guy like Luka.

[BlacJacMac]

If there was a trade for a SloMo upgrade, two targets I’d have are Tre Jones and Alex Caruso. Both make about what Anderson does, and both have a cheap second season. I have seen a couple teams say they would trade a lottery protected 1st for Kyle, so I could envision

MIN OUT Anderson
MIN IN. Jones

BOS OUT: filler and lottery protected 1st
BOS IN: Anderson

SAS OUT: jones
SAS IN: filler and lottery protected 1st

Caruso’s worth more, so we’d need value from UTA and the pick

MIN OUT Anderson + remove top 5 protection
MIN IN. Caruso

BOS OUT: filler and lottery protected 1st
BOS IN: Anderson

UTA OUT: decent young players
UTA IN: filler and remove top 5 protection

CHI OUT: Caruso
CHI IN: decent young players and BOS lottery protected 1st

Last point - protections allow flexibility, just like using Garza or Moore Jr. Maybe we only need to make the protections top 3, or even top 1 to get Utah in the deal

I would love to get Caruso. Tre I don't like at all.

[KGdaBom]

If there was a trade for a SloMo upgrade, two targets I’d have are Tre Jones and Alex Caruso. Both make about what Anderson does, and both have a cheap second season. I have seen a couple teams say they would trade a lottery protected 1st for Kyle, so I could envision

MIN OUT Anderson
MIN IN. Jones

BOS OUT: filler and lottery protected 1st
BOS IN: Anderson

SAS OUT: jones
SAS IN: filler and lottery protected 1st

Caruso’s worth more, so we’d need value from UTA and the pick

MIN OUT Anderson + remove top 5 protection
MIN IN. Caruso

BOS OUT: filler and lottery protected 1st
BOS IN: Anderson

UTA OUT: decent young players
UTA IN: filler and remove top 5 protection

CHI OUT: Caruso
CHI IN: decent young players and BOS lottery protected 1st

Last point - protections allow flexibility, just like using Garza or Moore Jr. Maybe we only need to make the protections top 3, or even top 1 to get Utah in the deal

I would love to get Caruso. Tre I don't like at all.

Caruso is nice, but what a China Doll. At reduced minutes as a backup he can probably hold up.

[cmoss84]

SloMo and Shake for Caruso? Or let it ride with who we have?

Anderson + Shake + TBJ = 53 min/gm

Anderson and Caruso = 23 min/gm so far
Shake and TBJ = 15 min/gm so far

So TBJ and Caruso, if minutes stay same, would be 38 min/gm...where do the other 15 minutes go?

[winforlose]

SloMo and Shake for Caruso? Or let it ride with who we have?

Anderson + Shake + TBJ = 53 min/gm

Anderson and Caruso = 23 min/gm so far
Shake and TBJ = 15 min/gm so far

So TBJ and Caruso, if minutes stay same, would be 38 min/gm...where do the other 15 minutes go?

I don’t think we have a hope of getting Caruso. He is a guy teams want badly and will pay for. Also, I thought I read somewhere he isn’t even on the market.


“ Caruso’s affordable $9.25 million average annual salary makes him an attractive option. In addition, he is well-acquainted with the team, having spent four years with the organization. However, the Bulls are reportedly asking for multiple first-round picks, which, according to Lakers beat writer Jovan Buha, is a high price to ask and one that the Lakers “certainly” won’t agree to”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/lakers-bulls-trade-update-zach-lavine-demar-derozan-and-alex-caruso-move-to-la-less-likely-per-reports/ar-AA1lNYyT

“There has been a “bevy of teams” expressing interest in Caruso, but the Bulls have “shut down those calls,” according to Charania. It appears that Chicago either wants to keep Caruso as a piece of its core moving forward or that they’re willing to let his value continue to increase ahead of the trade deadline.”


https://www.si.com/nba/2023/12/11/bulls-alex-caruso-trade-rumors-news

[Klomp]

Any thoughts about a three-way trade?

MIN Out: Kyle
DET Out: Morris, WAS 2nd
SAS Out: Tre

MIN In: Morris, WAS 2nd
DET In: Tre
SAS In: Kyle

[winforlose]

Any thoughts about a three-way trade?

MIN Out: Kyle
DET Out: Morris, WAS 2nd
SAS Out: Tre

MIN In: Morris, WAS 2nd
DET In: Tre
SAS In: Kyle

I like the theory. I worry about Monte Morris’s health and rust level.

[jpatrick]

Any thoughts about a three-way trade?

MIN Out: Kyle
DET Out: Morris, WAS 2nd
SAS Out: Tre

MIN In: Morris, WAS 2nd
DET In: Tre
SAS In: Kyle

I like the theory. I worry about Monte Morris’s health and rust level.

This would be my worry. But I like his fit if healthy.

I think Caruso fetches more than we think and that’s if, big if, they look to move him. He’s playing well with White right now. Absolutely not shocking they went on a run like this once Lavine went out, Zach’s a scorer but hasn’t been playing winning BB for a while.

[shrink]

Keep in mind though, hard to find two way players under $10mil

I wanted to go into a little more detail, but I had other places to be. Stupid real life.

Anyway, I’m not sure any of these guys cover all the bases. People might want to trade Kyle because he isn’t a shooter, but he’s a decent defender and back up PG. Jones is a better PG, but his small size makes easier to pick on defensively, and he hasn’t shot better than 28% from 3P in the last three years. Caruso is a better defender than Kyle, and decent three point shooter, but not as good a back up PG, and similar to what we have in NAW.

I’m not sure switching off Kyle is the answer, particularly if we need to invest extra assets. However, having the second years locked in cheaply means it’s assets for this year and the next - getting Bird rights on an expiring deal is no guarantee we can outbid other teams next year, with our limited free payroll. But the bottom line is that it’s very hard to find a player that checks all three boxes at $9-$10. If they could do all three, they’d be much more valuable probably making at least $16.

[winforlose]

Keep in mind though, hard to find two way players under $10mil

I wanted to go into a little more detail, but I had other places to be. Stupid real life.

Anyway, I’m not sure any of these guys cover all the bases. People might want to move Kyle because he isn’t a shooter, but he’s a decent defender and back up PG. Jones is a better PG, but his small size makes easier to pick on defensively, and he hasn’t shot better than 28% from 3P in the last three years. Caruso is a better defender than Kyle, and decent three point shooter, but not as good a back up PG, and similar to what we have in NAW.

I’m not sure switching off Kyle is the answer, particularly if we need to invest extra assets. However, having the second years locked in cheaply means it’s assets for this year and the next - getting Bird rights on an expiring deal is no guarantee we can outbid other teams next year, with our limited free payroll.

This is why I am high on Tyus Jones. I am banking on him wanting to be here and taking a pay cut to be the hometown boy. I am also banking on a winning teams starting 5 getting better ads and outside revenue to help make up for the pay cut. Tyus getting commercials with Ant is extra revenue (think V8 before the trade.) Tre might want to be here, but he isn’t an upgrade. A non shooter cannot share the floor with Rudy in the playoffs, and Kyle has become a non shooter. But, I think we can afford a defensive downgrade for a legit Conley type PG.

[MN7725]

SloMo and Shake for Caruso? Or let it ride with who we have?

Anderson + Shake + TBJ = 53 min/gm

Anderson and Caruso = 23 min/gm so far
Shake and TBJ = 15 min/gm so far

So TBJ and Caruso, if minutes stay same, would be 38 min/gm...where do the other 15 minutes go?

I think Caruso would get back something similar to Marcus Smart

he can be on the floor on a Finals team as a complimentary player

[KGdaBom]

SloMo and Shake for Caruso? Or let it ride with who we have?

Anderson + Shake + TBJ = 53 min/gm

Anderson and Caruso = 23 min/gm so far
Shake and TBJ = 15 min/gm so far

So TBJ and Caruso, if minutes stay same, would be 38 min/gm...where do the other 15 minutes go?

I think Caruso would get back something similar to Marcus Smart

he can be on the floor on a Finals team as a complimentary player

No way. Not on Smart's level.

[BlacJacMac]

SloMo and Shake for Caruso? Or let it ride with who we have?

Anderson + Shake + TBJ = 53 min/gm

Anderson and Caruso = 23 min/gm so far
Shake and TBJ = 15 min/gm so far

So TBJ and Caruso, if minutes stay same, would be 38 min/gm...where do the other 15 minutes go?

I think Caruso would get back something similar to Marcus Smart

he can be on the floor on a Finals team as a complimentary player

No way. Not on Smart's level.

Yeah. He's a much better shooter than Smart...

And he was 1st Team All-Defense last year.

How Alex Caruso turned into a Defensive Player of the Year candidate

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38842999/alex-caruso-defensive-player-year-candidate-chicago-bulls

[winforlose]

SloMo and Shake for Caruso? Or let it ride with who we have?

Anderson + Shake + TBJ = 53 min/gm

Anderson and Caruso = 23 min/gm so far
Shake and TBJ = 15 min/gm so far

So TBJ and Caruso, if minutes stay same, would be 38 min/gm...where do the other 15 minutes go?

I think Caruso would get back something similar to Marcus Smart

he can be on the floor on a Finals team as a complimentary player

I am a big Caruso fan, but I think that is pushing it. I think he is more valuable than people on here describe but less than Smart value.