Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[shrink]

I’ve been trying to come up with a deal where we send out Luka Garza for another team’s vet min PG or C.

Even if he’s not a center, or a good defender, he’s a great three point shooter and post scorer, and he’s big. He has that de facto No-trade clause, so it would have to be a team where Luka might get some minutes.

[wolves_89]

I’ve been trying to come up with a deal where we send out Luka Garza for another team’s vet min PG or C.

Even if he’s not a center, or a good defender, he’s a great three point shooter and post scorer, and he’s big. He has that de facto No-trade clause, so it would have to be a team where Luka might get some minutes.

If the Wolves moved Garza they would need to have a plan in place for adding a replacement center. The center position is already the team's thinnest spot and unlike PG/SG/SF/PF I don't see a rotation capable guy waiting in the wings. Miller could play a little center, but he doesn't have the strength to defend the majority of rotation level centers in the NBA.

[shrink]

I’ve been trying to come up with a deal where we send out Luka Garza for another team’s vet min PG or C.

Even if he’s not a center, or a good defender, he’s a great three point shooter and post scorer, and he’s big. He has that de facto No-trade clause, so it would have to be a team where Luka might get some minutes.

If the Wolves moved Garza they would need to have a plan in place for adding a replacement center. The center position is already the team's thinnest spot and unlike PG/SG/SF/PF I don't see a rotation capable guy waiting in the wings. Miller could play a little center, but he doesn't have the strength to defend the majority of rotation level centers in the NBA.

I don’t even consider Garza a center any more with his body reshaping - just a big wing, like Naz.

[wolves_89]

I’ve been trying to come up with a deal where we send out Luka Garza for another team’s vet min PG or C.

Even if he’s not a center, or a good defender, he’s a great three point shooter and post scorer, and he’s big. He has that de facto No-trade clause, so it would have to be a team where Luka might get some minutes.

If the Wolves moved Garza they would need to have a plan in place for adding a replacement center. The center position is already the team's thinnest spot and unlike PG/SG/SF/PF I don't see a rotation capable guy waiting in the wings. Miller could play a little center, but he doesn't have the strength to defend the majority of rotation level centers in the NBA.

I don’t even consider Garza a center any more with his body reshaping - just a big wing, like Naz.

The difference is that Garza doesn't have the foot speed to guard on the perimeter, making him by default a center since that is about the only position he can even somewhat defend. That's the reason I've never considered him to be more than an emergency fill in, even though he could probably be a fairly efficient volume scorer right now. I truly think he would be better off adding weight/strength and trying to be a force in the paint.

[shangrila]

I’ve been trying to come up with a deal where we send out Luka Garza for another team’s vet min PG or C.

Even if he’s not a center, or a good defender, he’s a great three point shooter and post scorer, and he’s big. He has that de facto No-trade clause, so it would have to be a team where Luka might get some minutes.

If the Wolves moved Garza they would need to have a plan in place for adding a replacement center. The center position is already the team's thinnest spot and unlike PG/SG/SF/PF I don't see a rotation capable guy waiting in the wings. Miller could play a little center, but he doesn't have the strength to defend the majority of rotation level centers in the NBA.

I'd rather play Miller.

If the team reaches a point where they're relying on Garza for real minutes then we're screwed either way. At least with Miller we can potentially get more transition opportunities and give him some real NBA minutes to see if he's worth keeping around.

[Guest84]

One thing to consider about trading certain guys would be to ask, “is he a post season performer or a reg season performer”?

I seen some refer to Jaden’s playoff performance when he’s mentioned. Similar to Ant, does he shine brighter on the big stage?

If this is the case, we have to be careful about using the regular season performance as the ultimate deciding factor.

I want guys who raise their play in the post season. Of course their reg season matters but the goal is to perform when the lights are bright.

[cmoss84]

I'm all about Garza and Miller for Kessler.

[winforlose]

I'm all about Garza and Miller for Kessler.

That’s nice, but Utah isn’t

[cmoss84]

I'm all about Garza and Miller for Kessler.

That’s nice, but Utah isn’t

Wait til Miller averages 20/10/5 the next 7 years gosh dang it!!

[winforlose]

I'm all about Garza and Miller for Kessler.

That’s nice, but Utah isn’t

Wait til Miller averages 20/10/5 the next 7 years gosh dang it!!

Makes sense, and with coach Finch in charge I am sure Miller will get every bit of that in the G

[shrink]

Wait til Miller averages 20/10/5 the next 7 years gosh dang it!!

Makes sense, and with coach Finch in charge I am sure Miller will get every bit of that in the G

I don’t think Leonard Miller is ready for the NBA, but even if he was, he’d be taking Josh Minott’s minutes. Do we want that?

[winforlose]

Wait til Miller averages 20/10/5 the next 7 years gosh dang it!!

Makes sense, and with coach Finch in charge I am sure Miller will get every bit of that in the G

I don’t think Leonard Miller is ready for the NBA, but even if he was, he’d be taking Josh Minott’s minutes. Do we want that?

That is the absolute Chris Finch way to think about it. OKC and GSW both play 10 or more for profit. So of course we play 8 and slide in a .5 with no margin for error. Miller should get minutes at the 5, Minott at the 4. Play fewer Randle minutes to accommodate this. Minott is a consistent plus player, and needs more minutes to learn how to play with his teammates and to help him learn the defensive scheme. I see the mental errors and confusion for Minott, but that is the growing pains of playing young talent.

[shrink]

Makes sense, and with coach Finch in charge I am sure Miller will get every bit of that in the G

I don’t think Leonard Miller is ready for the NBA, but even if he was, he’d be taking Josh Minott’s minutes. Do we want that?

That is the absolute Chris Finch way to think about it. OKC and GSW both play 10 or more for profit. So of course we play 8 and slide in a .5 with no margin for error. Miller should get minutes at the 5, Minott at the 4. Play fewer Randle minutes to accommodate this. Minott is a consistent plus player, and needs more minutes to learn how to play with his teammates and to help him learn the defensive scheme. I see the mental errors and confusion for Minott, but that is the growing pains of playing young talent.

This is a good point, but I suspect the Towns trade had a lot to do with this.

Before the trade, it sounded like Dillingham and Shannon were both going to get minutes right away, and he’d look for minutes for Minott. I actually thought that was excessive because

1. The team that has playoff ambitions (and has struggled to maintain them)
2. The team has two terrific sixth and seventh men in Naz and NAW. (That are carrying them towards those goals).
3. Remember, we want to keep them both happy to encourage them to re-sign here this summer.

After the trade, it felt to me like they’ve …

4. needed those minutes to try to get Randle and DiVincenzo comfortable playing in Finch’s system,
5. and the other playoff-rotation caliber players comfortable playing with the two new additions.
6. Moreover, the trade was a a one-for-two, so suddenly you’re trying to find DDV 25 minutes of playing time.
7. And finally, the Wolves have been incredibly healthy so far, unlike some of KAT’s recent career here, so there haven’t been holes that young players needed to fill.

I think there are many reasons we haven’t seen more minutes for the youth, but the biggest was the KAT trade.

[winforlose]

I don’t think Leonard Miller is ready for the NBA, but even if he was, he’d be taking Josh Minott’s minutes. Do we want that?

That is the absolute Chris Finch way to think about it. OKC and GSW both play 10 or more for profit. So of course we play 8 and slide in a .5 with no margin for error. Miller should get minutes at the 5, Minott at the 4. Play fewer Randle minutes to accommodate this. Minott is a consistent plus player, and needs more minutes to learn how to play with his teammates and to help him learn the defensive scheme. I see the mental errors and confusion for Minott, but that is the growing pains of playing young talent.

This is a good point, but I suspect the Towns trade had a lot to do with this.

Before the trade, it sounded like Dillingham and Shannon were both going to get minutes right away, and he’d look for minutes for Minott. I actually thought that was excessive because

1. The team that has playoff ambitions (and has struggled to maintain them)
2. The team has two terrific sixth and seventh men in Naz and NAW. (That are carrying them towards those goals).
3. Remember, we want to keep them both happy to encourage them to re-sign here this summer.

After the trade, it felt to me like they’ve …

4. needed those minutes to try to get Randle and DiVincenzo comfortable playing in Finch’s system,
5. and the other playoff-rotation caliber players comfortable playing with the two new additions.
6. Moreover, the trade was a a one-for-two, so suddenly you’re trying to find DDV 25 minutes of playing time.
7. And finally, the Wolves have been incredibly healthy so far, unlike some of KAT’s recent career here, so there haven’t been holes that young players needed to fill.

I think there are many reasons we haven’t seen more minutes for the youth, but the biggest was the KAT trade.

We don’t talk about it much because we love the guy, but Mike Conley isn’t rotation worthy right now. Between his wrist, his age, and his role he is just eating minutes at best. I would rather pull Mike for 20 games to rest and try to get that wrist right, give those minutes to NAW, DDV, and Dilly (Dilly is still having ankle issues,) and try to win with an expanded depth chart. I come back to other teams having success with it. Ant getting fewer minutes in the short term might be a wake up call to start playing team basketball again.

[Norseman79]

Miller should absolutely not be getting minutes at the 5. At the 4? Yes. Minott's minutes should be at the 3. Could they play the other slots for a brief stretch? Sure. Ant could play the 5 for a brief stretch.

The issue that keeps popping up is having 3 shooting guards, not including Shannon and Clark,that need minutes.

Roster balance is way out of whack.

[winforlose]

Miller should absolutely not be getting minutes at the 5. At the 4? Yes. Minott's minutes should be at the 3. Could they play the other slots for a brief stretch? Sure. Ant could play the 5 for a brief stretch.

The issue that keeps popping up is having 3 shooting guards, not including Shannon and Clark,that need minutes.

Roster balance is way out of whack.

Is Miller’s game better suited to the 4 than the 5? I kept hearing he was too slow to guard the 4.

[Norseman79]

Four team that works ... Thoughts?

Toronto out: Brown jr, Walter, Mitchell, Mogbo, Ahead
In: Wiggins, Hardaway, Jackson-Davis

Hardaway is expiring, Wiggins comes home and helps make their run next year. Jackson-Davis is a young big to develop.
.
PG - Quickly, Carton
SG - Barret, Dick
SF - Wiggins, Abaji
PF - Barnes, Jackson-Davis
C - Poeltl, Olynyk, Chomche

Detroit out: Duren, Hardaway Jr
In: Kuminga, Walter, Brown jr

PG - Cunningham/Ivey
SG - Ivey/Walter
SF - Thompson/Holland
PF - Kuminga/Harris
C - Stewart/Reed

Kuminga and Walter give two more exciting pieces to build with. Brown Jr is expiring.

Golden State out: Kuminga, Wiggins, Jackson-Davis
In: Randle

PG - Schroder, Podziemski
SG - Curry, Payton Jr
SF - Hield, Moody
PF - Randle, Anderson
C - Green, Looney

They get their chance to make a run. Kuminga is leaving anyway, Wiggins might be missed, but likely not, Jackson-Davis is replaceable.

Minnesota out: Randle
In: Duren, Mitchell, Mogbo, Shead

This doesn't solve logjam at the 2, but gets us a starting PG, a backup 5, and two guys to develop in g-league for depth. Mogbo should get heavy development at the SF position to see. ***Cut two of Ingles, Nix, Edwards, Garza***

PG - Mitchell, Conley, Dillingham
SG - Edwards, DD/NAW
SF - McDaniels, Minott
PF - Reid, Miller
C. - Gobert, Duren

[Norseman79]

Miller should absolutely not be getting minutes at the 5. At the 4? Yes. Minott's minutes should be at the 3. Could they play the other slots for a brief stretch? Sure. Ant could play the 5 for a brief stretch.

The issue that keeps popping up is having 3 shooting guards, not including Shannon and Clark,that need minutes.

Roster balance is way out of whack.

Is Miller’s game better suited to the 4 than the 5? I kept hearing he was too slow to guard the 4.

I'm guessing it would depend on the matchup, but if Naz can guard 4's Miller can. Miller was considered as a SF around the draft. If a team goes small ball with 4 guards on the court, he probably would be too slow, so would Reid. Realistically, Miller is a stretch 4. And if he is too slow, or too dumb, to be able to do it, it's a good time to find out.

[Klomp]

Makes sense, and with coach Finch in charge I am sure Miller will get every bit of that in the G

I don’t think Leonard Miller is ready for the NBA, but even if he was, he’d be taking Josh Minott’s minutes. Do we want that?

That is the absolute Chris Finch way to think about it.

Well he is the coach here, last I checked.

Would the Heat fan base have expected Pat Riley to run the triangle offense in Miami because Phil Jackson had success with it in Chicago?

[shrink]

We should really be looking to trade TJ Shannon.

I understand the idea of getting him at the draft. MIN needed offense off the bench, and Shannon is an older rookie on a cost-controlled contract, who can maybe get rotation minutes in year one.

However, with the trade for DiVincenzo and the rise of NAW making it look more and more likely we pay him, there are few pathways for Shannon to get minutes now or in the next few years. Every front office (and fanbase) fall in love with their rookies and dream about them reaching their full potential far down the road. However, any pick is flexible on draft night, and loses value immediately after it’s selected and become a real player that may not fit certain teams. They continue to lose value once they are “driven off the lot,” particularly if they can’t show that can earn NBA minutes, and this is particularly true for Shannon as an older rookie.

Shannon is more valuable to other teams, particularly an expensive team with playoff ambitions like us, but a roster need for a SG. We can’t provide that, and I’d look for a player that has a chance to make our rotation, like a young center. Any ideas who that matches with?