2020 NBA Draft Prospects: Thread II

[KGdaBom]

Why would you take Ball or Edwards right now with the thought of trading them this or next season?

What if they aren't good? Or at least not right away, what is their trade value then (I'm pretty sure it would be less than it is before they are drafted).

I think they should trade out, but if they stay I think Wiseman is by far the safest bet. His floor is a solid center that can protect the rim, rebound his ass off, and get easy dunks.

The other two guys have A LOT to improve to contribute to an NBA team, let alone one with playoff asperations in the west. Wiseman can make an impact right away and if he develops could be a nightmare for other teams to deal with.

Firstly, that "floor" can easily describe any number of career journeymen. It sounds nice on paper but if I point to Nerlens Noel it's suddenly not as attractive.

Secondly, if he's a C then we're already capping any potential he might have. Towns can't play PF and if Wiseman can't either then they're going to have issues sharing time.

I don't buy the argument that KAT can't play the PF. He just hasn't done that much so far. Wiseman would play the more traditional Center role while KAT can launch 40%+ 3s at volume. Wiseman will hold down the job of rim protecting and rebounding. Maybe we aren't great defending the 3, but it's better than our opponents being uncontested at the rim and it's better than allowing our opponents offensive boards and making the three after.

[UnFadeable21]

Just watched the whole clip, Lamelo has elite passing from pick and roll to full court passes with either hand. He has quick hands for getting steals too. Good size and should be able to help rebounding at the pro level.

If he is a bigger Rubio, who can actually finish at the rim, I'll take that all day. Ricky use to brick wide open lay ups and has never dunked one in his NBA career. Lamelo did avg 2.5 steals a game last year winning rookie of the year in the pro NBL league.

Ricky was a high level defender from his rookie year, I can't see Lamelo being like that. They both do have elite vision with broken jumpers and are active rebounds, but that's about it

Watch on YouTube

Mike Schmitz of Draft Express disagrees.

Start at the 1:45 mark, he says Lamelo has the quick feet and size to be a very good defender. With examples to show why.

I love Rubio but I'll never say he was a high level defender. He's never made an All NBA defensive team. He never blocked or tipped shots. He was a gambler on defense for steals, just like Lamelo. I was a Wolves season ticket holder for 3 seasons, 1 year with Sam and 2 years with Thibs. I saw Rubio get killed by Jeff Teague and Goron at the Target Center.

[urinesane]

Why would you take Ball or Edwards right now with the thought of trading them this or next season?

What if they aren't good? Or at least not right away, what is their trade value then (I'm pretty sure it would be less than it is before they are drafted).

I think they should trade out, but if they stay I think Wiseman is by far the safest bet. His floor is a solid center that can protect the rim, rebound his ass off, and get easy dunks.

The other two guys have A LOT to improve to contribute to an NBA team, let alone one with playoff asperations in the west. Wiseman can make an impact right away and if he develops could be a nightmare for other teams to deal with.

Firstly, that "floor" can easily describe any number of career journeymen. It sounds nice on paper but if I point to Nerlens Noel it's suddenly not as attractive.

Secondly, if he's a C then we're already capping any potential he might have. Towns can't play PF and if Wiseman can't either then they're going to have issues sharing time.

I don't buy the argument that KAT can't play the PF. He just hasn't done that much so far. Wiseman would play the more traditional Center role while KAT can launch 40%+ 3s at volume. Wiseman will hold down the job of rim protecting and rebounding. Maybe we aren't great defending the 3, but it's better than our opponents being uncontested at the rim and it's better than allowing our opponents offensive boards and making the three after.

Also, I've been extremely conservative with Wiseman while most others have been rose colored glasses when it comes to Ball/Edwards.

Wiseman's form on his shot looks very good imo, I really don't think there's anyway he doesn't become a massive positive on offense and defense. Last night they were gushing about BAM being a game changer with his abilities, and I think Wiseman can be the same type of player.

He won't NEED to be the focal point of the offense, but if KAT, D-Lo, and Beas are having off nights, Wiseman has the skill and ability to completely take over and dominate a game on both sides of the ball. I honestly can't think of a guy I've seen with his size and skill set without major glaring flaws (i.e. bad ft shooting, no jumper, bad hands etc).

Honestly I see a mix of KG/Bosh in Wiseman and the only potential knock I've heard is that he may not have the consistent drive (though I haven't actually seen any evidence of this) because he chose to move on from college and focus on getting ready for the NBA instead of serving his suspension.

I can't wait for people to start working out for teams, because like KG was coming out of high school (for people close to the situation) I think Wiseman is going to be undeniable.

I'm not holding my breath for the Wolves to make the right choice, because they've only ever picked two players that I wanted them to (Rubio and KAT) anyway. I just hope that Wiseman comes in and blows the roof off the gym, so rather than worrying about how to play him with KAT, they start thinking of the the myriad of ways he could benefit the team in their goal to compete for the playoffs.

Crazy prediction: If the Wolves select Ball or Edwards (and keep them) they won't make the playoffs for the next 3-4 years.
If they select Wiseman they'll compete for the 8th spot next year, and make the playoffs the following season.

[shangrila]

I don't buy the argument that KAT can't play the PF. He just hasn't done that much so far.

Anything to back that up? Anything at all?

Wiseman would play the more traditional Center role while KAT can launch 40%+ 3s at volume.

The issues aren't offensive.

Wiseman will hold down the job of rim protecting and rebounding. Maybe we aren't great defending the 3, but it's better than our opponents being uncontested at the rim and it's better than allowing our opponents offensive boards and making the three after.

If that's all you want sign Nerlens Noel. Or Bismack Biyombo. Or Miles Plumlee or Dwight Howard or Javale McGee or Tyson Chandler or Aron Baynes or Hassan Whiteside or etc, etc. You don't draft a guy to play a bit part 1st overall.

[shangrila]

Firstly, that "floor" can easily describe any number of career journeymen. It sounds nice on paper but if I point to Nerlens Noel it's suddenly not as attractive.

Secondly, if he's a C then we're already capping any potential he might have. Towns can't play PF and if Wiseman can't either then they're going to have issues sharing time.

I don't buy the argument that KAT can't play the PF. He just hasn't done that much so far. Wiseman would play the more traditional Center role while KAT can launch 40%+ 3s at volume. Wiseman will hold down the job of rim protecting and rebounding. Maybe we aren't great defending the 3, but it's better than our opponents being uncontested at the rim and it's better than allowing our opponents offensive boards and making the three after.

Also, I've been extremely conservative with Wiseman while most others have been rose colored glasses when it comes to Ball/Edwards.

Wiseman's form on his shot looks very good imo, I really don't think there's anyway he doesn't become a massive positive on offense and defense. Last night they were gushing about BAM being a game changer with his abilities, and I think Wiseman can be the same type of player.

He won't NEED to be the focal point of the offense, but if KAT, D-Lo, and Beas are having off nights, Wiseman has the skill and ability to completely take over and dominate a game on both sides of the ball. I honestly can't think of a guy I've seen with his size and skill set without major glaring flaws (i.e. bad ft shooting, no jumper, bad hands etc).

Honestly I see a mix of KG/Bosh in Wiseman and the only potential knock I've heard is that he may not have the consistent drive (though I haven't actually seen any evidence of this) because he chose to move on from college and focus on getting ready for the NBA instead of serving his suspension.

I can't wait for people to start working out for teams, because like KG was coming out of high school (for people close to the situation) I think Wiseman is going to be undeniable.

...seriously?

[KGdaBom]

I don't buy the argument that KAT can't play the PF. He just hasn't done that much so far.

Anything to back that up? Anything at all?

Wiseman would play the more traditional Center role while KAT can launch 40%+ 3s at volume.

The issues aren't offensive.

Wiseman will hold down the job of rim protecting and rebounding. Maybe we aren't great defending the 3, but it's better than our opponents being uncontested at the rim and it's better than allowing our opponents offensive boards and making the three after.

If that's all you want sign Nerlens Noel. Or Bismack Biyombo. Or Miles Plumlee or Dwight Howard or Javale McGee or Tyson Chandler or Aron Baynes or Hassan Whiteside or etc, etc. You don't draft a guy to play a bit part 1st overall.

Shangrila you're better than a post like this.

1: Burden of proof that KAT can't play the PF is on those who say he can't. I've seen no evidence supporting that stance.
2: KAT isn't great defensively Got it. Wiseman has no particular issues either offensively or defensively.
3: No that isn't all I want, but I'm so freaking sick of opponents attacking our rim uncontested and getting way too many offensive rebounds.

[urinesane]

Maybe I'm just dumb (very possible). I understand the league is transitioning more to small ball based on the rockets approach the last however many seasons and the Warrior's success... but has a real small ball team won a championship yet (with someone playing center without traditional center size)?

Sort of like Nelly Ball era Warriors and Nash Suns, those teams that focus on high volume scoring and shooting lots of 3's tend to have regular season success, but has it been proven that it's more successful in the post season?

Teams like the Warriors that have had that type of success haven't just been a bunch of chuckers, they've been extremely good shooters filling out the roster, with solid defensive role players, and very good coaching/game planning (and solid big men).

As the Rockets watch another conference finals from their couch, do we really think it's a path to success? Unless we only care about regular season success in the future (which don't get me wrong, would be a huge step up), I think Wiseman should definitely be in serious consideration for the #1 pick.

Last point, small ball was built off of stats and exploiting advantages that it gave over more traditional lineups... but what happens when EVERYONE goes to small ball? The next evolution will be teams with high volume 3 point scorers and versatile big men that can spread the floor and aren't as easily exploited by small ball.

Why not give it a shot now with Wiseman?

[urinesane]

I don't buy the argument that KAT can't play the PF. He just hasn't done that much so far. Wiseman would play the more traditional Center role while KAT can launch 40%+ 3s at volume. Wiseman will hold down the job of rim protecting and rebounding. Maybe we aren't great defending the 3, but it's better than our opponents being uncontested at the rim and it's better than allowing our opponents offensive boards and making the three after.

Also, I've been extremely conservative with Wiseman while most others have been rose colored glasses when it comes to Ball/Edwards.

Wiseman's form on his shot looks very good imo, I really don't think there's anyway he doesn't become a massive positive on offense and defense. Last night they were gushing about BAM being a game changer with his abilities, and I think Wiseman can be the same type of player.

He won't NEED to be the focal point of the offense, but if KAT, D-Lo, and Beas are having off nights, Wiseman has the skill and ability to completely take over and dominate a game on both sides of the ball. I honestly can't think of a guy I've seen with his size and skill set without major glaring flaws (i.e. bad ft shooting, no jumper, bad hands etc).

Honestly I see a mix of KG/Bosh in Wiseman and the only potential knock I've heard is that he may not have the consistent drive (though I haven't actually seen any evidence of this) because he chose to move on from college and focus on getting ready for the NBA instead of serving his suspension.

I can't wait for people to start working out for teams, because like KG was coming out of high school (for people close to the situation) I think Wiseman is going to be undeniable.

...seriously?

Notice how that statement came after saying I had been conservative? Hence, I HAVE STOPPED BEING CONSERVATIVE.

lol, thought you had a gotcha eh?

[UnFadeable21]

Doogie said on his podcast that the Wolves are researching between Lamelo and Edwards or trade. Wiseman isn’t on our radar as the Wolves don’t want to play two centers together.

[shangrila]

Shangrila you're better than a post like this.

Ironic

1: Burden of proof that KAT can't play the PF is on those who say he can't. I've seen no evidence supporting that stance.

What do you want? Do you want his entire career of not playing PF despite having Dieng on the roster the entire time? Or perhaps that brief stretch in Smitch's year where he and Gorgui did share the court and got demolished by any half decent perimeter big? Or maybe that he already struggles in drop coverage, the easiest defensive system for a big and a step below what guarding in space is like?

It's asinine to act like the burden of proof is on me. There is no evidence that he can play PF. No prior history, no future indicators. Nothing but the fact that you're enamoured with Wiseman and are desperate to fit him and Towns together. If you have something other than a hope and a prayer, I'd love to see it.

2: KAT isn't great defensively Got it. Wiseman has no particular issues either offensively or defensively.

This. This right here is what pisses me off.

Wiseman isn't perfect. His shot is years away from being consistent. He bites on pump fakes too often. His numbers came against mostly sub par competition.

I don't hate him but Christ, he's not anywhere close to the perfect prospect you and others make him out to be. And when you then debate as if that opinion is a fact, it's annoying.

3: No that isn't all I want, but I'm so freaking sick of opponents attacking our rim uncontested and getting way too many offensive rebounds.

Ok? You brought it up as a reason to draft Wiseman. My point that we can fill that role elsewhere still stands.

If you're trying to sell me a role player with the #1 pick you'd best go elsewhere 'cause I'm not buying. You want to sell me a star I'm all ears, but you actually have to try and sell me something. Don't just tell me he's awesome, actually demonstrate it...with something more than a crossover and per36 numbers against crap competition.

[urinesane]

Doogie said on his podcast that the Wolves are researching between Lamelo and Edwards or trade. Wiseman isn’t on our radar as the Wolves don’t want to play two centers together.

Doogie says a lot of stuff and while I'm not calling him a liar, why would the Wolves be straight forward with their draft strategy and just give it to local media? I take all this stuff with a grain of salt, because there's no way to know if it's real or smoke screens for leverage.

[shangrila]

Also, I've been extremely conservative with Wiseman while most others have been rose colored glasses when it comes to Ball/Edwards.

Wiseman's form on his shot looks very good imo, I really don't think there's anyway he doesn't become a massive positive on offense and defense. Last night they were gushing about BAM being a game changer with his abilities, and I think Wiseman can be the same type of player.

He won't NEED to be the focal point of the offense, but if KAT, D-Lo, and Beas are having off nights, Wiseman has the skill and ability to completely take over and dominate a game on both sides of the ball. I honestly can't think of a guy I've seen with his size and skill set without major glaring flaws (i.e. bad ft shooting, no jumper, bad hands etc).

Honestly I see a mix of KG/Bosh in Wiseman and the only potential knock I've heard is that he may not have the consistent drive (though I haven't actually seen any evidence of this) because he chose to move on from college and focus on getting ready for the NBA instead of serving his suspension.

I can't wait for people to start working out for teams, because like KG was coming out of high school (for people close to the situation) I think Wiseman is going to be undeniable.

...seriously?

Notice how that statement came after saying I had been conservative? Hence, I HAVE STOPPED BEING CONSERVATIVE.

lol, thought you had a gotcha eh?

Whatever you need to tell yourself, mate.

[KGdaBom]

Doogie said on his podcast that the Wolves are researching between Lamelo and Edwards or trade. Wiseman isn’t on our radar as the Wolves don’t want to play two centers together.

That report is enough to make me optimistic we will draft Wiseman. No way in hell do the Wolves reveal their draft strategy to Doogie.

[urinesane]

This. This right here is what pisses me off.

Wiseman isn't perfect. His shot is years away from being consistent. He bites on pump fakes too often. His numbers came against mostly sub par competition.

I don't hate him but Christ, he's not anywhere close to the perfect prospect you and others make him out to be. And when you then debate as if that opinion is a fact, it's annoying.

I don't think anyone is calling him perfect. I think your assessment of his shot is just wrong, look at his form, it's fluid and very solid. It's not a project, just needs more experience and he'll be a solid threat from at least midrange, if not 3 point range.

Most young big men that are known as rim protectors have to learn to not bite on the pump fake, again this isn't a skill that is rare to learn and develop by any means (it's basically NBA Center 101 stuff). I expect him to struggle with it his first season, but show a lot of improvement by the middle of his second season with regular work and more experience (he isn't a dumb guy that will just continue to make those mistakes his whole career).

Numbers against subpar competition is fair, but as always, you can only play against the people on the court. It can be a a false indicator of ability, but it's not exactly a glaring red flag (now not having great numbers or success against subpar competition...).

I don't see any of the common red flags in his game that tend to be major limiting factors of success at the NBA level for a big man. His shot form looks very good, he's fluid and not awkward at all movement wise (he's actually very good in this area), he will be a VERY good rim protector once he learns to not bite on pump fakes (that's really the only thing stopping him in that area), and unlike a lot of the people you've casually thrown out, he's bigger and longer than basically all of them, with way more potential to be a game changer on both ends of the floor (you've mostly just listed centers known only for their defense and pretty bad offense).

Also, his shot looks solid enough that I think he'll be a guy that won't be a liability at the FT line.

Ok? You brought it up as a reason to draft Wiseman. My point that we can fill that role elsewhere still stands.

If you're trying to sell me a role player with the #1 pick you'd best go elsewhere 'cause I'm not buying. You want to sell me a star I'm all ears, but you actually have to try and sell me something. Don't just tell me he's awesome, actually demonstrate it...with something more than a crossover and per36 numbers against crap competition.

He's only a role player if rim protection is the only thing he contributes and I think it would be pretty damn intellectually dishonest to pretend that's all he will be.

[urinesane]

Watch on YouTube

I mean, just look at the preview pic on that video. Does he breathe through his mouth?

His resting face looks like he's saying "Duh, wha?".

I get it, people think I'm just hating, but intelligence isn't just something you can judge by the noises people make with their mouths.

The dude didn't even get through high school, is this not a bad sign?

[Worm Guts]

I mean, just look at the preview pic on that video. Does he breathe through his mouth?

His resting face looks like he's saying "Duh, wha?".

I get it, people think I'm just hating, but intelligence isn't just something you can judge by the noises people make with their mouths.

The dude didn't even get through high school, is this not a bad sign?

If not getting through high school was anything but a choice, maybe it would be a bad sign. There are reasons not to like Ball, but the way his face looks or the fact he left high school to play pro aren’t among them.

[UnFadeable21]

Watch on YouTube

I mean, just look at the preview pic on that video. Does he breathe through his mouth?

His resting face looks like he's saying "Duh, wha?".

I get it, people think I'm just hating, but intelligence isn't just something you can judge by the noises people make with their mouths.

The dude didn't even get through high school, is this not a bad sign?

Did you even watch the Draft Express scouting video?

[KGdaBom]

Shangrila you're better than a post like this.

Ironic

1: Burden of proof that KAT can't play the PF is on those who say he can't. I've seen no evidence supporting that stance.

What do you want? Do you want his entire career of not playing PF despite having Dieng on the roster the entire time? Or perhaps that brief stretch in Smitch's year where he and Gorgui did share the court and got demolished by any half decent perimeter big? Or maybe that he already struggles in drop coverage, the easiest defensive system for a big and a step below what guarding in space is like?

It's asinine to act like the burden of proof is on me. There is no evidence that he can play PF. No prior history, no future indicators. Nothing but the fact that you're enamoured with Wiseman and are desperate to fit him and Towns together. If you have something other than a hope and a prayer, I'd love to see it.

2: KAT isn't great defensively Got it. Wiseman has no particular issues either offensively or defensively.

This. This right here is what pisses me off.

Wiseman isn't perfect. His shot is years away from being consistent. He bites on pump fakes too often. His numbers came against mostly sub par competition.

I don't hate him but Christ, he's not anywhere close to the perfect prospect you and others make him out to be. And when you then debate as if that opinion is a fact, it's annoying.

3: No that isn't all I want, but I'm so freaking sick of opponents attacking our rim uncontested and getting way too many offensive rebounds.

Ok? You brought it up as a reason to draft Wiseman. My point that we can fill that role elsewhere still stands.

If you're trying to sell me a role player with the #1 pick you'd best go elsewhere 'cause I'm not buying. You want to sell me a star I'm all ears, but you actually have to try and sell me something. Don't just tell me he's awesome, actually demonstrate it...with something more than a crossover and per36 numbers against crap competition.

I hate the term role player. Every player plays a role. I believe Wiseman can be a star. Athletic players with his length are very few in the history of the world.

Sent from my SM-N970U using RealGM mobile app

[urinesane]

I mean, just look at the preview pic on that video. Does he breathe through his mouth?

His resting face looks like he's saying "Duh, wha?".

I get it, people think I'm just hating, but intelligence isn't just something you can judge by the noises people make with their mouths.

The dude didn't even get through high school, is this not a bad sign?

If not getting through high school was anything but a choice, maybe it would be a bad sign. There are reasons not to like Ball, but the way his face looks or the fact he left high school to play pro aren’t among them.

Not saying on a personal level, but for the future of the franchise, I'm looking at everything.

[Jedzz]

Just watched the whole clip, Lamelo has elite passing from pick and roll to full court passes with either hand. He has quick hands for getting steals too. Good size and should be able to help rebounding at the pro level.

If he is a bigger Rubio, who can actually finish at the rim, I'll take that all day. Ricky use to brick wide open lay ups and has never dunked one in his NBA career. Lamelo did avg 2.5 steals a game last year winning rookie of the year in the pro NBL league.

Ricky was a high level defender from his rookie year, I can't see Lamelo being like that. They both do have elite vision with broken jumpers and are active rebounds, but that's about it

Watch on YouTube

Mike Schmitz of Draft Express disagrees.

Start at the 1:45 mark, he says Lamelo has the quick feet and size to be a very good defender. With examples to show why.

I love Rubio but I'll never say he was a high level defender. He's never made an All NBA defensive team. He never blocked or tipped shots. He was a gambler on defense for steals, just like Lamelo. I was a Wolves season ticket holder for 3 seasons, 1 year with Sam and 2 years with Thibs. I saw Rubio get killed by Jeff Teague and Goron at the Target Center.

Does it make it any different for us if we saw Rubio getting hip checked by Teague on TV than you being at Target Center? Was the Teague cheapshot any different in person? Your own post claims Lamelo is already a gambler for steals like Rubio. Why then claim he's different? Oh yeah, the size and quick feet. I don't think Rubio has slow feet. So the height then. I agree the height/length if turns out real as claimed could be used for better defense if they could get him to do it. I have no idea however if he's got the head for it. Someone hopefully vets that.