Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[shrink]

For years, I’ve dreamed of pairing KAT’s unique game with Myles Turner or JJJ. I still do to some extent. Realistically though, neither has ever grown into becoming the dominant player I had hoped. Both would be a big help - but neither is a star.

Could they become stars here, next to KAT? There probably isn’t a player in the league that would be better for them, but at this point, I don’t know if it’s going to happen for either of them. They would definitely improve the team, but at what price?

[BlacJacMac]

Turner may not be a great rebounder but he's at least got the legit size to perform that role (or at least offer a bigger body for boxing out opposition 5s). Regardless he's a better 3pt shooter than just about anybody we have outside of Towns and he'd be a better defender than everyone outside of Beverley.

He'd be a great fit for us.

For sure. That's why I led off my first comment that I love Turner. I was just commenting that he isn't a "great rebounder" - which is a bummer.

But I'd take him on the squad in a heartbeat.

[shangrila]

For years, I’ve dreamed of pairing KAT’s unique game with Myles Turner or JJJ. I still do to some extent. Realistically though, neither has ever grown into becoming the dominant player I had hoped. Both would be a big help - but neither is a star.

Could they become stars here, next to KAT? There probably isn’t a player in the league that would be better for them, but at this point, I don’t know if it’s going to happen for either of them. They would definitely improve the team, but at what price?

Do we need a star next to Towns?

Vando would be perfect if he could hit 3s and even then he’d be pretty far from a star.

[Wolveswin]

Not to be a dick, but are you on drugs?
Why would we do that?

Wolveswin wants to watch the world burn -- he often posts trades involving Edwards or Towns.

No one is untouchable. Period.

[Wolveswin]

Not to be a dick, but are you on drugs?
Why would we do that?

Why would you not?

Can Edwards be better than Brown? Sure. He can also bust and not be. None the less, getting a current top 25 player, 25yo, 3 years control on value deal isn’t drug crazy. Come on.

Oh and BTW, they also get Turner. Not a bad value add for the pain of trading Edwards’ upside.

I will give you 3 reasons.

1. We would lack a PG besides Russell. Pritchard has imploded and is barely playable (if at all.)

2. The money would be a big problem. Brown is 24,26,28 guy and Turner is 18, 18 then pay raise. Ant is a smaller contract and Beasley savings are wiped by Turner.

3. Brown has hamstring issues this season and might not be as ready to return as you think.

Thank you for the quality response.
1. Noted. But I am sure our staff could make a call. If a no, then add a different asset. Flip that asset. Or sign a vet. Or make it Beasley and keep Bev. Have Celtics compensate accordingly for that change.

2. Not my money. Brown max. Towns max. Russell new contract (before towns and brown renew) will not be max. Tuner won’t be max. And since everyone fits so well and winning playoff games, re-signing shouldn’t be issue.

3. Not worried about Brown. I actually think in new setting (not Tatum shadow) he would take off.

[mplsfonz23]

Why would you not?

Can Edwards be better than Brown? Sure. He can also bust and not be. None the less, getting a current top 25 player, 25yo, 3 years control on value deal isn’t drug crazy. Come on.

Oh and BTW, they also get Turner. Not a bad value add for the pain of trading Edwards’ upside.

I will give you 3 reasons.

1. We would lack a PG besides Russell. Pritchard has imploded and is barely playable (if at all.)

2. The money would be a big problem. Brown is 24,26,28 guy and Turner is 18, 18 then pay raise. Ant is a smaller contract and Beasley savings are wiped by Turner.

3. Brown has hamstring issues this season and might not be as ready to return as you think.

Thank you for the quality response.
1. Noted. But I am sure our staff could make a call. If a no, then add a different asset. Flip that asset. Or sign a vet. Or make it Beasley and keep Bev. Have Celtics compensate accordingly for that change.

2. Not my money. Brown max. Towns max. Russell new contract (before towns and brown renew) will not be max. Tuner won’t be max. And since everyone fits so well and winning playoff games, re-signing shouldn’t be issue.

3. Not worried about Brown. I actually think in new setting (not Tatum shadow) he would take off.

So..... Ant leaves and Brown comes in and he's NOT in Towns shadow? Lo's?
Cmon, three max contracts and two are often hurt? Ant has yet to miss a lot of games and has the making to be better than Brown with a much better contract. AND you want to throw in a pick?
Drugs I say.

[shrink]

For years, I’ve dreamed of pairing KAT’s unique game with Myles Turner or JJJ. I still do to some extent. Realistically though, neither has ever grown into becoming the dominant player I had hoped. Both would be a big help - but neither is a star.

Could they become stars here, next to KAT? There probably isn’t a player in the league that would be better for them, but at this point, I don’t know if it’s going to happen for either of them. They would definitely improve the team, but at what price?

Do we need a star next to Towns?

Vando would be perfect if he could hit 3s and even then he’d be pretty far from a star.

Hah! I agree, and I’m conflicted on that very issue. Earlier today I wrote:

Now, I have always loved Turner next to KAT .. or maybe, I have always loved the concept of what Turner could be, but never quite is. I’m sure he’d help the team in many of its weakest areas. But even though Vando is paid as a back up, I don’t know if I want him to be a back up. I go back and forth whether the team needs to bring in a star big man like Turner, or do they need a cheaper, rotation-level big man like Thad Young, Theis, or PJ Washington? I’m curious how others see the situation?

[Wolveswin]

I will give you 3 reasons.

1. We would lack a PG besides Russell. Pritchard has imploded and is barely playable (if at all.)

2. The money would be a big problem. Brown is 24,26,28 guy and Turner is 18, 18 then pay raise. Ant is a smaller contract and Beasley savings are wiped by Turner.

3. Brown has hamstring issues this season and might not be as ready to return as you think.

Thank you for the quality response.
1. Noted. But I am sure our staff could make a call. If a no, then add a different asset. Flip that asset. Or sign a vet. Or make it Beasley and keep Bev. Have Celtics compensate accordingly for that change.

2. Not my money. Brown max. Towns max. Russell new contract (before towns and brown renew) will not be max. Tuner won’t be max. And since everyone fits so well and winning playoff games, re-signing shouldn’t be issue.

3. Not worried about Brown. I actually think in new setting (not Tatum shadow) he would take off.

So..... Ant leaves and Brown comes in and he's NOT in Towns shadow? Lo's?
Cmon, three max contracts and two are often hurt? Ant has yet to miss a lot of games and has the making to be better than Brown with a much better contract. AND you want to throw in a pick?
Drugs I say.

And then we have this. Awww it was going so well.

[karch34]

For years, I’ve dreamed of pairing KAT’s unique game with Myles Turner or JJJ. I still do to some extent. Realistically though, neither has ever grown into becoming the dominant player I had hoped. Both would be a big help - but neither is a star.

Could they become stars here, next to KAT? There probably isn’t a player in the league that would be better for them, but at this point, I don’t know if it’s going to happen for either of them. They would definitely improve the team, but at what price?

Do we need a star next to Towns?

Vando would be perfect if he could hit 3s and even then he’d be pretty far from a star.

Hah! I agree, and I’m conflicted on that very issue. Earlier today I wrote:

Now, I have always loved Turner next to KAT .. or maybe, I have always loved the concept of what Turner could be, but never quite is. I’m sure he’d help the team in many of its weakest areas. But even though Vando is paid as a back up, I don’t know if I want him to be a back up. I go back and forth whether the team needs to bring in a star big man like Turner, or do they need a cheaper, rotation-level big man like Thad Young, Theis, or PJ Washington? I’m curious how others see the situation?

I look at it as we need another big, period. Turner gives us an elite starter and Vando would excel off the bench but cost will be high. If it doesn’t gut us let’s do it. If it does gut us let’s get a piece that is Vando level or hopefully better on O that only costs a Prince, Okogie, and/or Layman with the more 2nds that we can’t possibly use next year without losing key rotational pieces and doing a big shift on the fly.

[winforlose]

Thank you for the quality response.
1. Noted. But I am sure our staff could make a call. If a no, then add a different asset. Flip that asset. Or sign a vet. Or make it Beasley and keep Bev. Have Celtics compensate accordingly for that change.

2. Not my money. Brown max. Towns max. Russell new contract (before towns and brown renew) will not be max. Tuner won’t be max. And since everyone fits so well and winning playoff games, re-signing shouldn’t be issue.

3. Not worried about Brown. I actually think in new setting (not Tatum shadow) he would take off.

So..... Ant leaves and Brown comes in and he's NOT in Towns shadow? Lo's?
Cmon, three max contracts and two are often hurt? Ant has yet to miss a lot of games and has the making to be better than Brown with a much better contract. AND you want to throw in a pick?
Drugs I say.

And then we have this. Awww it was going so well.

For better or worse Ant is an investment. He is clearly not as far along as people hoped, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t quite advanced for his age and experience level. Given another year or 2 he will make even more progress, but, do we want to wait for that. How good do we need to be to keep KAT? What if we finish 8, is that good enough. What if we lose in the 2nd game of the play in, would KAT demand out? The smart thing to do is take stock of what you have and what you need and make a decision of whether what you have can get you what you need. No half measures or small moves, you either take a shot or a step back. I am on the fence. I could be good trading Ant, but I am also of the mindset that KAT is perhaps becoming a liability. Between needing to keep Dlo (whose inconsistency and unavailability have been an issue this season,) his refusal to take more 3s, and his instance on passing to guys like Okogie or Prince rather than taking the open shot are all major red flags. Add to this his foul trouble issues and his out of control play (how many times per game does he fall,) and I am starting to ask the question, can we get a major return on investment now. Can we package KAT and Dlo and get Sabonis and Turner (and more,) then flip Sabonis for another star or two? Can we remake this team and avoid the KAT timeline (will he leave if we lose question.)

Either way things seem bleak.

[Wolveswin]

So..... Ant leaves and Brown comes in and he's NOT in Towns shadow? Lo's?
Cmon, three max contracts and two are often hurt? Ant has yet to miss a lot of games and has the making to be better than Brown with a much better contract. AND you want to throw in a pick?
Drugs I say.

And then we have this. Awww it was going so well.

For better or worse Ant is an investment. He is clearly not as far along as people hoped, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t quite advanced for his age and experience level. Given another year or 2 he will make even more progress, but, do we want to wait for that. How good do we need to be to keep KAT? What if we finish 8, is that good enough. What if we lose in the 2nd game of the play in, would KAT demand out? The smart thing to do is take stock of what you have and what you need and make a decision of whether what you have can get you what you need. No half measures or small moves, you either take a shot or a step back. I am on the fence. I could be good trading Ant, but I am also of the mindset that KAT is perhaps becoming a liability. Between needing to keep Dlo (whose inconsistency and unavailability have been an issue this season,) his refusal to take more 3s, and his instance on passing to guys like Okogie or Prince rather than taking the open shot are all major red flags. Add to this his foul trouble issues and his out of control play (how many times per game does he fall,) and I am starting to ask the question, can we get a major return on investment now. Can we package KAT and Dlo and get Sabonis and Turner (and more,) then flip Sabonis for another star or two? Can we remake this team and avoid the KAT timeline (will he leave if we lose question.)

Either way things seem bleak.

All good points. If I had to choose to trade one, it is Towns. More so if Russell is attached to him, OR he is soon sent out of town in his coat tails.

Note: to that point I would trade Towns + Russell for Brown + Horford in a heartbeat. I would love to see Brown next to Edwards and Reid mentored by Horford.
Horford | Reid (Reid growing role)
JV | McDaniels
Brown | Edwards
Edwards | Beasley
Beverley

[Mamba4Goat]

In a perfect world the Timberwolves would do a Malik Beasley, fillers, and 2nds for Eric Gordon trade and a Prince, fillers, and picks for Myles Turner trade.

Bev/D’Lo
D’Lo/EG
Ant/McDaniels
KAT/Vando
Turner/Naz

Would be a wet dream of a lineup. The looming lux tax problem that it creates probably kills it though.

[winforlose]

In a perfect world the Timberwolves would do a Malik Beasley, fillers, and 2nds for Eric Gordon trade and a Prince, fillers, and picks for Myles Turner trade.

Bev/D’Lo
D’Lo/EG
Ant/McDaniels
KAT/Vando
Turner/Naz

Would be a wet dream of a lineup. The looming lux tax problem that it creates probably kills it though.

Injury history makes me nervous about Gordon. Also I don’t know we get him for what your suggesting or Turner for that matter. The other thing is he is 6’3 and when playing with Bev at 6’1 we go even smaller. If Turner cannot rebound well enough to cover for taking V8 out of the starting lineup then V8 needs to start at 3 and Ant at the 2 with either Dlo or Bev coming off the bench. My vote would be Dlo as Beverly has been a more stabilizing force.

[Wolf_Cry]

Lol everyone from every team is throwing bench/scrub players for Turner in their trade scenarios. Not calling out anyone or any teams in particular, but I just find that hilarious We're talking about a premier defensive big who can stretch the floor, and people want to think he can be had for a couple pennies.

If the Wolves really want him, they will have to part with DLo at the minimum (which I'm okay with).

[Wolveswin]

Here is my fav trade ATM…

To Spurs: Nesmith (Celtics youth) + Prince (expiring) + Celtics 1st (protected)

To Celtics: Towns + Russell + McBuckets (via TPE) + Wolves 2nd (or two)

To Wolves: Brown + Horford + D. Murray

Horford | Reid (Reid mentored and bigger role)
JV | McDaniels
Brown | Edwards
Edwards | Beasley
Murray | Beverley

[Wolf_Cry]

Here is my fav trade ATM…

To Spurs: Nesmith (Celtics youth) + Prince (expiring) + Celtics 1st (protected)

To Celtics: Towns + Russell + McBuckets (via TPE) + Wolves 2nd (or two)

To Wolves: Brown + Horford + D. Murray

Horford | Reid (Reid mentored and bigger role)
JV | McDaniels
Brown | Edwards
Edwards | Beasley
Murray | Beverley

Lol why in the world would Spurs do that though? Murray is great and on an insanely good contract.

[Wolveswin]

Here is my fav trade ATM…

To Spurs: Nesmith (Celtics youth) + Prince (expiring) + Celtics 1st (protected)

To Celtics: Towns + Russell + McBuckets (via TPE) + Wolves 2nd (or two)

To Wolves: Brown + Horford + D. Murray

Horford | Reid (Reid mentored and bigger role)
JV | McDaniels
Brown | Edwards
Edwards | Beasley
Murray | Beverley

Lol why in the world would Spurs do that though? Murray is great and on an insanely good contract.

Hey if above Prince + Fillers + Picks gets Turner, Prince + Nesmith + 1st gets Murray.

Then you will really like this one…

To Celtics: Towns + Russell + McBuckets (via TPE)

To Spurs: Prince + Nesmith + Celtics 1st

To 76ers: Edwards + LeVert

To Pacers: Horford + McDaniels + Wolves 1st + 76ers 1st

To Wolves: Brown + Simmons + Turner + D. Murray + Milton

Turner | Reid
Simmons | JV
Brown | Bolmaro
Beasley | Milton
D. Murray | Beverley

[Wolf_Cry]

Here is my fav trade ATM…

To Spurs: Nesmith (Celtics youth) + Prince (expiring) + Celtics 1st (protected)

To Celtics: Towns + Russell + McBuckets (via TPE) + Wolves 2nd (or two)

To Wolves: Brown + Horford + D. Murray

Horford | Reid (Reid mentored and bigger role)
JV | McDaniels
Brown | Edwards
Edwards | Beasley
Murray | Beverley

Lol why in the world would Spurs do that though? Murray is great and on an insanely good contract.

Hey if above Prince + Fillers + Picks gets Turner, Prince + Nesmith + 1st gets Murray.

Then you will really like this one…

To Celtics: Towns + Russell + McBuckets (via TPE)

To Spurs: Prince + Nesmith + Celtics 1st

To 76ers: Edwards + LeVert

To Pacers: Horford + McDaniels + Wolves 1st + 76ers 1st

To Wolves: Brown + Simmons + Turner + D. Murray + Milton

Turner | Reid
Simmons | JV
Brown | Bolmaro
Beasley | Milton
D. Murray | Beverley

I mean, I would do that trade 10/10 times.

But I don't think Prince + fillers gets Turner or Murray lol. Well it depends on what the filler is I supposed- I think DLo has to at least be involved. I think we're highly underestimating how valued Turner is around the league, and once again overrating our guys.

[shangrila]

In a perfect world the Timberwolves would do a Malik Beasley, fillers, and 2nds for Eric Gordon trade and a Prince, fillers, and picks for Myles Turner trade.

Bev/D’Lo
D’Lo/EG
Ant/McDaniels
KAT/Vando
Turner/Naz

Would be a wet dream of a lineup. The looming lux tax problem that it creates probably kills it though.

That's got to be the tamest "wet dream" I've ever seen.

What are your actual ones like? Dinner with your crush's parents?

[minimus]

CLE IN: MIN FRP 2022 top5 protected, Okogie, Nowell
CLE OUT: Sexton, Wade, Stevens
Why for for CLE: get some assets for injured Sexton who is due to contract extension

DET IN: Sexton, Prince, Layman, two MIN 2022 SRPs
DET OUT: Grant
Why for for DET: create room for Cade, get starting caliber PG

MIN IN: Gran, Wade, Stevens
MIN OUT: MIN FRP 2022 top5 protected, Okogie, Nowell, Prince, Layman, two MIN 2022 SRPs
Why for MIN: get starting PF

KAT/Reid/Knight
Grant/Vando/???
Edwards/MCD/???
Beverly/Beasley/Bolmaro
Russell/Bolmaro/JMac