Ben Simmons Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[NebWolvesFan]

One downside of waiting for Simmons, is that we put on hold any other activities such as trades, FA/RFA signings. Rosas gamble and if he fails, he fails hard, unless he has a contingency plan.

Rosas said million times in the offseason that he wasn't going to sign any free agents. He said trades were the best way to improve Minnesota's roster and he made two trades that acquired two rotation players. There were never going to be any FA/RFA signings - just like there wasn't last year. The Wolves didn't sit out the FA marketplace because they were waiting on Simmons. They sat it out because they never sign free agents. Last year, Rosas didn't sign any free agents either.

[Klomp]

One downside of waiting for Simmons, is that we put on hold any other activities such as trades, FA/RFA signings. Rosas gamble and if he fails, he fails hard, unless he has a contingency plan.

Rosas said million times in the offseason that he wasn't going to sign any free agents. He said trades were the best way to improve Minnesota's roster and he made two trades that acquired two rotation players. There were never going to be any FA/RFA signings - just like there wasn't last year. The Wolves didn't sit out the FA marketplace because they were waiting on Simmons. They sat it out because they never sign free agents. Last year, Rosas didn't sign any free agents either.

Especially when you consider the team's roster construction. The Wolves entered the offseason with 12 players under contract, 1 UFA, 2 RFAs, and one player with draft rights. So far we've seen three out and two in via trades, and still our roster is basically full. Sure you're allowed to have up to 20 on the roster in the offseason, but why? Why sign guys just so you know you'd have to cut someone else later as dead money?

[SO_MONEY]

With new ownership on the way, do people believe Rosas has permission to trade away multiple future 1sts and pick swaps, and damage the Wolves future drafts for the next six years?

C’mon. It’s called REAL gm.

Everything I've seen, heard and read indicates to me, that Lore is more aggressive than passive with his assets.

That might be, but people like him also like to build and leave their independent mark, so that aggressiveness or willingness to take on risk isn't entirely separate or indictive that his ego wouldn't affect the need for him to have something of his own.

So the other way to look at it is, that aggressiveness might be just as likely, perhaps even more likely (I don't know him) to trade KAT... you just don't know.

[jpatrick]

One downside of waiting for Simmons, is that we put on hold any other activities such as trades, FA/RFA signings. Rosas gamble and if he fails, he fails hard, unless he has a contingency plan.

Rosas said million times in the offseason that he wasn't going to sign any free agents. He said trades were the best way to improve Minnesota's roster and he made two trades that acquired two rotation players. There were never going to be any FA/RFA signings - just like there wasn't last year. The Wolves didn't sit out the FA marketplace because they were waiting on Simmons. They sat it out because they never sign free agents. Last year, Rosas didn't sign any free agents either.

Especially when you consider the team's roster construction. The Wolves entered the offseason with 12 players under contract, 1 UFA, 2 RFAs, and one player with draft rights. So far we've seen three out and two in via trades, and still our roster is basically full. Sure you're allowed to have up to 20 on the roster in the offseason, but why? Why sign guys just so you know you'd have to cut someone else later as dead money?

I don’t think we were ever going to sign a free agent. We’re up against the tax and its historically tough to draw free agents to Minnesota.

I think more the implication is that if Simmons were not around, maybe Rosas would have been more aggressive in his pursuit of players like Nance, Lauri (probably not at that price), or maybe others. The PF spot desperately needs a body (Vando is not the answer on a playoff team as a starter), but Rosas still has time, Simmons or no Simmons.

[Klomp]

I think more the implication is that if Simmons were not around, maybe Rosas would have been more aggressive in his pursuit of players like Nance, Lauri (probably not at that price), or maybe others. The PF spot desperately needs a body (Vando is not the answer on a playoff team as a starter), but Rosas still has time, Simmons or no Simmons.

It hasn't stopped them from making moves.

I think the thing that seems frustrating is that we have a price and stick to it. Not going to do a trade unless the value is right.

[Wolveswin]

I think more the implication is that if Simmons were not around, maybe Rosas would have been more aggressive in his pursuit of players like Nance, Lauri (probably not at that price), or maybe others. The PF spot desperately needs a body (Vando is not the answer on a playoff team as a starter), but Rosas still has time, Simmons or no Simmons.

It hasn't stopped them from making moves.

I think the thing that seems frustrating is that we have a price and stick to it. Not going to do a trade unless the value is right.

The thing about Simmons is he has more value to Wolves than just on the court. Rosas knows if indeed the broship is real. And I would assume it is, being Simmons has said he would play in MN with Towns and Russell.

So as fans if we assume the broship is real, Simmons means either a little or a lot of security for Towns (one less year than Simmons and short 2 years from needing a new contract or trade). Simmons could also mean Russell needs to accept a value deal (being he is highly overpaid now) to stay and play with his buddies.

With that in mind, how much value does that have? Simmons as a very nice anchor to Towns. And as early next year, leverage to get Russell to sign a value deal?

I would say Rosas should be fine giving up one more 1st swap or little less 1st protections knowing Simmons means more to Wolves than pure on court value.

[Wolveswin]

I think a interesting offer, is no youth involved.

To 76ers: Beasley + Prince + Beverley

To Wolves: Simmons + Curry + Joe

Then the two biggest questions are what number of 1sts involved, and does a third team jump in now to get 76ers a win-now player they like more (McCollum or Dragic or ?) using any combination of players from Wolves.

Picks: with no McDaniels or youth of note: 2022 1st (unprotected) + 2024 1st (top 4 protected) + 2026 1st (top 8 protected then 2nds after 2 years). If a swap or two is needed in odd years, negotiate those in (with protections).

[thenbaman]

I think a interesting offer, is no youth involved.

To 76ers: Beasley + Prince + Beverley

To Wolves: Simmons + Curry + Joe

Then the two biggest questions are what number of 1sts involved, and does a third team jump in now to get 76ers a win-now player they like more (McCollum or Dragic or ?) using any combination of players from Wolves.

Picks: with no McDaniels or youth of note: 2022 1st (unprotected) + 2024 1st (top 4 protected) + 2026 1st (top 8 protected then 2nds after 2 years). If a swap or two is needed in odd years, negotiate those in (with protections).

[Wolveswin]

I think a interesting offer, is no youth involved.

To 76ers: Beasley + Prince + Beverley

To Wolves: Simmons + Curry + Joe

Then the two biggest questions are what number of 1sts involved, and does a third team jump in now to get 76ers a win-now player they like more (McCollum or Dragic or ?) using any combination of players from Wolves.

Picks: with no McDaniels or youth of note: 2022 1st (unprotected) + 2024 1st (top 4 protected) + 2026 1st (top 8 protected then 2nds after 2 years). If a swap or two is needed in odd years, negotiate those in (with protections).

[shrink]

With new ownership on the way, do people believe Rosas has permission to trade away multiple future 1sts and pick swaps, and damage the Wolves future drafts for the next six years?

C’mon. It’s called REAL gm.

Everything I've seen, heard and read indicates to me, that Lore is more aggressive than passive with his assets.

I haven’t seen anything except lip service, but this is one step farther.

Do you believe he’d be aggressive with ROSAS choosing how to spend far in the future, or wait for his own guy? Anything from him committing to Rosas?

[shrink]

I think a interesting offer, is no youth involved.

To 76ers: Beasley + Prince + Beverley

To Wolves: Simmons + Curry + Joe

Then the two biggest questions are what number of 1sts involved, and does a third team jump in now to get 76ers a win-now player they like more (McCollum or Dragic or ?) using any combination of players from Wolves.

Picks: with no McDaniels or youth of note: 2022 1st (unprotected) + 2024 1st (top 4 protected) + 2026 1st (top 8 protected then 2nds after 2 years). If a swap or two is needed in odd years, negotiate those in (with protections).

I doubt MIN is giving up three picks and two swaps, including an unprotected pick, and I think it’s even less likely the average PHI posters we’ve seen here and on the Trade Board would accept anything you’d post anyway. You’re not going to get realistic feedback.

I think we just need to wait and see what happens.

[Wolveswin]

I doubt MIN is giving up three picks and two swaps, including an unprotected pick, and I think it’s even less likely the average PHI posters we’ve seen here and on the Trade Board would accept anything you’d post anyway. You’re not going to get realistic feedback.

I think we just need to wait and see what happens.

RGM fan feedback is what it is. Realistic probably isn’t a adjective used to describe feedback here for sure.

What is realistic is actual NBA comps. I have mentioned Vucevic a bunch of times. 2 lightly protected 1sts. Another comp, and probably a better one is Porzingis.

Porzingis was young like Simmons, asking out like Simmons, had warts like Simmons (his was knee surgery and injury prone vs. not shooting drama that Simmons has). He got two 1sts and Mavs best young prospect (not name Doncic).

Mavs are similar to Wolves as well, have their star player, looking to surround him with young-win-now-talent and stop the losing.

So if Wolves don’t include a young piece, the picks go from 2 to 3 in volume.

[KGdaBom]

I doubt MIN is giving up three picks and two swaps, including an unprotected pick, and I think it’s even less likely the average PHI posters we’ve seen here and on the Trade Board would accept anything you’d post anyway. You’re not going to get realistic feedback.

I think we just need to wait and see what happens.

I think Prince, Beasley and Beverley would all make the 76ers rotation, but there's little upside in those 3. We could really use Beverley and Prince. Beasley of course. Beasley and either of Prince Beverley matches salary IIRC. If I were Philly I'd prefer McDaniels to another FRP from a much improved Wolves squad. I'd like to keep McD, but I just don't see it.

[Klomp]

With new ownership on the way, do people believe Rosas has permission to trade away multiple future 1sts and pick swaps, and damage the Wolves future drafts for the next six years?

C’mon. It’s called REAL gm.

Everything I've seen, heard and read indicates to me, that Lore is more aggressive than passive with his assets.

I haven’t seen anything except lip service, but this is one step farther.

Do you believe he’d be aggressive with ROSAS choosing how to spend far in the future, or wait for his own guy? Anything from him committing to Rosas?

I'm not talking about what he's said since buying his share of the team, I'm talking about how he seems to run all of his companies.

[shrink]

I doubt MIN is giving up three picks and two swaps, including an unprotected pick, and I think it’s even less likely the average PHI posters we’ve seen here and on the Trade Board would accept anything you’d post anyway. You’re not going to get realistic feedback.

I think we just need to wait and see what happens.

RGM fan feedback is what it is. Realistic probably isn’t a adjective used to describe feedback here for sure.

What is realistic is actual NBA comps. I have mentioned Vucevic a bunch of times. 2 lightly protected 1sts. Another comp, and probably a better one is Porzingis.

Porzingis was young like Simmons, asking out like Simmons, had warts like Simmons (his was knee surgery and injury prone vs. not shooting drama that Simmons has). He got two 1sts and Mavs best young prospect (not name Doncic).

Mavs are similar to Wolves as well, have their star player, looking to surround him with young-win-now-talent and stop the losing.

So if Wolves don’t include a young piece, the picks go from 2 to 3 in volume.

Your first line made me laugh!

Most everyone was shocked that CHI paid that much for Vooch. People thought Porzingas would develop to be worth the asking price (Ben is a bad development risk). But these prices seem much more like Harden offers.

Simmons is no Harden. For players like Harden, you see.

1. Every team line up to add him. For Ben, reports are very few teams are still interested.
2. Teams are willing to trade their top player, since the new guy is a superstar. For Ben, teams are putting 1-2 players off limits.
3. Morey reportedly offered Ben, Thybulle and two 1sts for Harden, and Ben’s value has decreased since then. Even he thinks Ben is worse.

I know there is a narrative about how valuable Ben is, and we won’t know the price until he is actually traded. However, a market comp to Vooch holds less weight to me than actual market facts for Ben. The Trade Board seems much higher on the Simmons return (Harden level) than what most of the news we here from national sources. I guess we’ll wait and see, and Iwill be happy when it’s over.

[gandlogo]

Beasley, Prince, 2022 1st rd (top-4 protected), and 2022 2nd rd (highest of Wolves picks). That's it. I wouldn't pay a cent more.

[Wolveswin]

What if Wolves kept Beasley? I can’t imagine 76ers value Beasley with his legal troubles and character issues.

Beverley + Prince + Youth + Picks

Youth: McDaniels or Bolmaro

Picks: easily 2x 1sts maybe 3x needed.

Keeping Beasley allows for him to be great shooting 6th man OR Edwards is starting SF and Beasley starting SG.

[Krapinsky]

What if Wolves kept Beasley? I can’t imagine 76ers value Beasley with his legal troubles and character issues.

Beverley + Prince + Youth + Picks

Youth: McDaniels or Bolmaro

Picks: easily 2x 1sts maybe 3x needed.

Keeping Beasley allows for him to be great shooting 6th man OR Edwards is starting SF and Beasley starting SG.

Wolves would probably need to move Beasley in the offseason then. Just too much salary for 5 players.

[sogood]

Beasley, Prince, 2022 1st rd (top-4 protected), and 2022 2nd rd (highest of Wolves picks). That's it. I wouldn't pay a cent more.

lmao then you ain't getting Simmons.

That's an insulting offer.

[gandlogo]

Beasley, Prince, 2022 1st rd (top-4 protected), and 2022 2nd rd (highest of Wolves picks). That's it. I wouldn't pay a cent more.

lmao then you ain't getting Simmons.

That's an insulting offer.

I don't care if that offer ultimately doesn't net Simmons. And I don't care if you view the offer as insulting. I do care about the Wolves improving - and being in the position to continue improving in the future. Overpaying for a player on the decline - who is also paid over $30MM per season - would hurt more than it would help if additional assets are used. If they miss on Simmons, reallocate those assets toward obtaining other players.