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Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#761 » by Guest84 » Tue Dec 31, 2024 9:49 pm

I’ve mentioned before I’d rather not trade TSJ before the deadline. I’d almost rather trade Rob first honestly. Even considering the plethora of sg we have on the roster right now.

I just like TSJ aggressiveness when he’s been out in the floor. Another player who’s not afraid to attack and apply pressure at the rim could absolutely help Ant. He’s listed at 6’6” and could potentially fill in next to Ant better than Jaden or anyone else currently on the roster.

Of course this is all hypothetical…
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#762 » by Norseman79 » Tue Dec 31, 2024 9:51 pm

winforlose wrote:
shrink wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Disagree.

1. We don’t know that NAW wants to come back. It might not be a money issue. He might legitimately want to go somewhere and be a starting SG instead of a backup SG/SF hybrid. If he leaves TSJ gets an immediate path to minutes.

2. I think it was you who said it on the trade board, TSJ has a depressed value right now. Sooner or later someone will miss time and TSJ will likely get a chance to show his stuff. He needs to build his value back up before we move him. Selling low just to sell is a bad practice and shouldn’t be done on year one of rookie deals.

We have three starting caliber SGs already. How many of them need to miss time for our playoff bound team before TSJ gets minutes and raises his trade value? Because all the time he sits on the bench, he slowly loses it.

And if you want to keep Minott as a back up SF, where exactly is this pathway to minutes?

Don’t you think there is a better pathway to minutes for a young developmental center here, than a fourth SG?


Minott is doing fine at PF, and as people have been saying to me, we can play 3 wings a PG and a C. If NAW leaves TSJ is your backup SF. If DDV gets hurt TSJ is your backup SG. If Ant is hurt DDV starts for him, and TSJ is his backup. TSJ has plenty of pathways to minutes, he just needs to shine when he gets his chance. Beyond that, you cannot on the hand say TSJ has very low value, and on the say we must sell low on cheap contract for a team with second apron issues. Name 3 assets that make us better that you think are available for TSJ right now?


Except Minott hasn't been playing backup PF, he has been playing SF.

Haven't looked around enough to know what other teams have end of bench as far as PG, PF, or C go....I named Chomche as one I would take, Christian Koloko and Ibou Badji if they are on rosters and affordable
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#763 » by Norseman79 » Wed Jan 1, 2025 12:47 am

If you want the 1-3-1 approach...which I dislike but as is...

PG - Conley, Dillingham, Nix
Wing - Edwards, DD, Clark/Shannon
Wing - McDaniels, NAW, Minott, Ingles
Wing - Randle, Reid, Miller
C - Gobert, Garza, Edwards
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#764 » by younggunsmn » Wed Jan 1, 2025 12:52 am

shrink wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:Who is this young developmental center? What is his contract situation (how much team control before he gets expensive)?
Is he good enough to break into the rotation himself and would Finch even play him if he was?

IMHO we are not getting that quality of player for him. Maybe some team offers us a guy they drafted in the mid-late 2nd at best.

What is the Center depth like in the early 2nd round next year where we have that Utah pick?

But it's a good thought exercise.

Yes, this is what I’m asking, because I’m no draft guru. Is there any teams in our situation that have their glut at C and not SG?

The things that make him attractive to us (ready to play now, cost controlled) would be valuable to them as well. We have the secondary limitation that the player must make less, so I thought the draft experts could look at players drafted after Shannon, or the previous season maybe drafted 24 or later, that could solve both teams’ problems?


Best I can come up with is Jay Huff on Memphis who is on a 4 year vet minimum contract.
None of the bigs drafted late 1st or later the past couple years do anything for me.

But then again we should be finding and developing those guys ourselves like Memphis always does.
They have like 13 rotation worthy players because their coach actually plays more than 8 guys.
Rosas did that with Naz before TC and Finch got here.

Granted Memphis had a year of tanking last year to do that, but they are still winning this year and playing like 11 or more guys every night. I don't know if Rob not being able to even get minutes with Mike playing this badly is more of an indictment of Finch or Rob.
He played some high effort high energy defense in his last few appearances and he has the same size limitations as Mike while being younger and having much better movement skills.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#765 » by Norseman79 » Wed Jan 1, 2025 1:05 am

younggunsmn wrote:
shrink wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:Who is this young developmental center? What is his contract situation (how much team control before he gets expensive)?
Is he good enough to break into the rotation himself and would Finch even play him if he was?

IMHO we are not getting that quality of player for him. Maybe some team offers us a guy they drafted in the mid-late 2nd at best.

What is the Center depth like in the early 2nd round next year where we have that Utah pick?

But it's a good thought exercise.

Yes, this is what I’m asking, because I’m no draft guru. Is there any teams in our situation that have their glut at C and not SG?

The things that make him attractive to us (ready to play now, cost controlled) would be valuable to them as well. We have the secondary limitation that the player must make less, so I thought the draft experts could look at players drafted after Shannon, or the previous season maybe drafted 24 or later, that could solve both teams’ problems?


Best I can come up with is Jay Huff on Memphis who is on a 4 year vet minimum contract.
None of the bigs drafted late 1st or later the past couple years do anything for me.

But then again we should be finding and developing those guys ourselves like Memphis always does.
They have like 13 rotation worthy players because their coach actually plays more than 8 guys.
Rosas did that with Naz before TC and Finch got here.

Granted Memphis had a year of tanking last year to do that, but they are still winning this year and playing like 11 or more guys every night. I don't know if Rob not being able to even get minutes with Mike playing this badly is more of an indictment of Finch or Rob.
He played some high effort high energy defense in his last few appearances and he has the same size limitations as Mike while being younger and having much better movement skills.


I agree with you and I think a major reason for that is that Finch doesn't really run set plays. He runs a free-flowing offense where people kind of play off each other and make reads. The issue with this is people have to learn how to play together. So trying to combine all these different elements really doesn't work. Now if the team has more of a set style offense, people learn their positions and are more interchangeable. I'm not going to sit here and say which system is better, honestly if you have great players either one will work. But I do believe Finch's system requires a lot more chemistry and basketball IQ. And I think that's probably why our offense can tank for stretches. Towns and Anderson were both fairly high IQ guys. Last year's Conley was physically better and is a high IQ guys. When it's running well and the ball is moving and everything is clicking, it's very hard to stop because there's no set play. However, it gets clunky and people stand and watch when there isn't. So defensively, it's probably harder to plan for, but if it's not working, it's much easier to stop. I could be wrong about all of this, it's just what seems to me when I watch.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#766 » by shrink » Wed Jan 1, 2025 1:08 am

To be fair, it’s a lot easier to play a young Naz Reid those first two years when KAT misses 47 and 32 games, and the Wolves are lottery hunting with 19 and 23 wins. The players who were in the most games in Naz’ first year was Jarrett Culver, and #2 was Josh Okogie.

Today, Wolves fans have expectations. And they should. But the goal of the current team isn’t to just keep playing youth and see what happens .. it’s to win games (and develop Ant in a winning culture, playing important games early in his career).

I would not get Memphis a lot of credit for developing their youth either. They were forced into it by all the injuries they’ve had, which also removed their pressure to win,
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#767 » by younggunsmn » Wed Jan 1, 2025 1:12 am

Norseman79 wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
shrink wrote:Yes, this is what I’m asking, because I’m no draft guru. Is there any teams in our situation that have their glut at C and not SG?

The things that make him attractive to us (ready to play now, cost controlled) would be valuable to them as well. We have the secondary limitation that the player must make less, so I thought the draft experts could look at players drafted after Shannon, or the previous season maybe drafted 24 or later, that could solve both teams’ problems?


Best I can come up with is Jay Huff on Memphis who is on a 4 year vet minimum contract.
None of the bigs drafted late 1st or later the past couple years do anything for me.

But then again we should be finding and developing those guys ourselves like Memphis always does.
They have like 13 rotation worthy players because their coach actually plays more than 8 guys.
Rosas did that with Naz before TC and Finch got here.

Granted Memphis had a year of tanking last year to do that, but they are still winning this year and playing like 11 or more guys every night. I don't know if Rob not being able to even get minutes with Mike playing this badly is more of an indictment of Finch or Rob.
He played some high effort high energy defense in his last few appearances and he has the same size limitations as Mike while being younger and having much better movement skills.


I agree with you and I think a major reason for that is that Finch doesn't really run set plays. He runs a free-flowing offense where people kind of play off each other and make reads. The issue with this is people have to learn how to play together. So trying to combine all these different elements really doesn't work. Now if the team has more of a set style offense, people learn their positions and are more interchangeable. I'm not going to sit here and say which system is better, honestly if you have great players either one will work. But I do believe Finch's system requires a lot more chemistry and basketball IQ. And I think that's probably why our offense can tank for stretches. Towns and Anderson were both fairly high IQ guys. Last year's Conley was physically better and is a high IQ guys. When it's running well and the ball is moving and everything is clicking, it's very hard to stop because there's no set play. However, it gets clunky and people stand and watch when there isn't. So defensively, it's probably harder to plan for, but if it's not working, it's much easier to stop. I could be wrong about all of this, it's just what seems to me when I watch.


I think it boils down to the pressure to win with the 2nd highest payroll in the league and FInch being an old school coach who it takes a significant amount of success to earn his trust.
The guys he trusts, he will leave out there even if they are playing horribly.
The guys he doesn't, you are getting nothing but garbage time.

Finch has a ridiculous amount of trust in NAW in particular and he will stick with him at backup PG even when he's getting stripped bringing the ball up the court.

There are guys who have earned more already, like Garza. Finch just won't play them.
TSJ can't be too far away though as he already plays decent on ball defense.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#768 » by Norseman79 » Wed Jan 1, 2025 1:20 am

younggunsmn wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
Best I can come up with is Jay Huff on Memphis who is on a 4 year vet minimum contract.
None of the bigs drafted late 1st or later the past couple years do anything for me.

But then again we should be finding and developing those guys ourselves like Memphis always does.
They have like 13 rotation worthy players because their coach actually plays more than 8 guys.
Rosas did that with Naz before TC and Finch got here.

Granted Memphis had a year of tanking last year to do that, but they are still winning this year and playing like 11 or more guys every night. I don't know if Rob not being able to even get minutes with Mike playing this badly is more of an indictment of Finch or Rob.
He played some high effort high energy defense in his last few appearances and he has the same size limitations as Mike while being younger and having much better movement skills.


I agree with you and I think a major reason for that is that Finch doesn't really run set plays. He runs a free-flowing offense where people kind of play off each other and make reads. The issue with this is people have to learn how to play together. So trying to combine all these different elements really doesn't work. Now if the team has more of a set style offense, people learn their positions and are more interchangeable. I'm not going to sit here and say which system is better, honestly if you have great players either one will work. But I do believe Finch's system requires a lot more chemistry and basketball IQ. And I think that's probably why our offense can tank for stretches. Towns and Anderson were both fairly high IQ guys. Last year's Conley was physically better and is a high IQ guys. When it's running well and the ball is moving and everything is clicking, it's very hard to stop because there's no set play. However, it gets clunky and people stand and watch when there isn't. So defensively, it's probably harder to plan for, but if it's not working, it's much easier to stop. I could be wrong about all of this, it's just what seems to me when I watch.


I think it boils down to the pressure to win with the 2nd highest payroll in the league and FInch being an old school coach who it takes a significant amount of success to earn his trust.
The guys he trusts, he will leave out there even if they are playing horribly.
The guys he doesn't, you are getting nothing but garbage time.

Finch has a ridiculous amount of trust in NAW in particular and he will stick with him at backup PG even when he's getting stripped bringing the ball up the court.

There are guys who have earned more already, like Garza. Finch just won't play them.
TSJ can't be too far away though as he already plays decent on ball defense.


Honestly, I think he is further away than you think. But I could be wrong. If he was close, he would likely be getting Minott's minutes. I just think the roster is a mess and he's scrambling to get chemistry going.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#769 » by Norseman79 » Wed Jan 1, 2025 2:03 am

Conley is either cooked or ready to be a backup PG.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#770 » by SuperCoolBeas8 » Wed Jan 1, 2025 4:06 am

Well that was eye opening. OKC trucked us in that 3rd qtr. SGA and Jalen Williams are next after the Boston title run is over. Ant needs help. How can we acquire a real number 2 scorer? We pretty much have 3 years to do it. That Rudy extension is looking brutal and I’m neutral on Rudy. We really needed that cap flexibility. Is Brandon Ingram a potential quick solution? Is Dillingham a real wildcard after he puts on some weight in 2025? I’ll hang up and listen.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#771 » by winforlose » Wed Jan 1, 2025 9:09 am

SuperCoolBeas8 wrote:Well that was eye opening. OKC trucked us in that 3rd qtr. SGA and Jalen Williams are next after the Boston title run is over. Ant needs help. How can we acquire a real number 2 scorer? We pretty much have 3 years to do it. That Rudy extension is looking brutal and I’m neutral on Rudy. We really needed that cap flexibility. Is Brandon Ingram a potential quick solution? Is Dillingham a real wildcard after he puts on some weight in 2025? I’ll hang up and listen.


DDV just dropped 26 the game before last. Naz was 6th man of the year and he didn’t do it without scoring. NAW can go off and win you a handful of games per year. Jaden can go off and win you a handful of games per year. Rudy can go off and win you a handful of games per year. The issues aren’t talent related, the issues are fit and scheme. Ant needs to be better with the ball in his hand, the guys without the ball need to be better in a number of ways, (off ball screens, backdoor cuts, on ball screens, ect…) We have the talent, we are not using it correctly.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#772 » by Norseman79 » Wed Jan 1, 2025 2:09 pm

winforlose wrote:
SuperCoolBeas8 wrote:Well that was eye opening. OKC trucked us in that 3rd qtr. SGA and Jalen Williams are next after the Boston title run is over. Ant needs help. How can we acquire a real number 2 scorer? We pretty much have 3 years to do it. That Rudy extension is looking brutal and I’m neutral on Rudy. We really needed that cap flexibility. Is Brandon Ingram a potential quick solution? Is Dillingham a real wildcard after he puts on some weight in 2025? I’ll hang up and listen.


DDV just dropped 26 the game before last. Naz was 6th man of the year and he didn’t do it without scoring. NAW can go off and win you a handful of games per year. Jaden can go off and win you a handful of games per year. Rudy can go off and win you a handful of games per year. The issues are talent related, the issues are fit and scheme. Ant needs to be better with the ball in his hand, the guys without the ball need to be better in a number of ways, (off ball screens, backdoor cuts, on ball screens, ect…) We have the talent, we are not using it correctly.



I only disagree with two things you said, one is Ant needing to be better with the ball in his hands. We need to get a playmaking point guard to take some of that pressure off of Ant. He is a scorer who can make plays for others, he isn't a playmaker for others who can score.

The other thing I disagree with is you mention it not being a talent thing, everything you said about guys going off is true and it's also true for pretty much every team in the league. We need someone who is consistent. Not one game here, one game there. This team, as is, SHOULD make the playoffs, COULD win a first round series depending on matchup, but, short of very unforeseen developments would stop there.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#773 » by winforlose » Wed Jan 1, 2025 8:04 pm

Norseman79 wrote:
winforlose wrote:
SuperCoolBeas8 wrote:Well that was eye opening. OKC trucked us in that 3rd qtr. SGA and Jalen Williams are next after the Boston title run is over. Ant needs help. How can we acquire a real number 2 scorer? We pretty much have 3 years to do it. That Rudy extension is looking brutal and I’m neutral on Rudy. We really needed that cap flexibility. Is Brandon Ingram a potential quick solution? Is Dillingham a real wildcard after he puts on some weight in 2025? I’ll hang up and listen.


DDV just dropped 26 the game before last. Naz was 6th man of the year and he didn’t do it without scoring. NAW can go off and win you a handful of games per year. Jaden can go off and win you a handful of games per year. Rudy can go off and win you a handful of games per year. The issues are talent related, the issues are fit and scheme. Ant needs to be better with the ball in his hand, the guys without the ball need to be better in a number of ways, (off ball screens, backdoor cuts, on ball screens, ect…) We have the talent, we are not using it correctly.



I only disagree with two things you said, one is Ant needing to be better with the ball in his hands. We need to get a playmaking point guard to take some of that pressure off of Ant. He is a scorer who can make plays for others, he isn't a playmaker for others who can score.

The other thing I disagree with is you mention it not being a talent thing, everything you said about guys going off is true and it's also true for pretty much every team in the league. We need someone who is consistent. Not one game here, one game there. This team, as is, SHOULD make the playoffs, COULD win a first round series depending on matchup, but, short of very unforeseen developments would stop there.


I agree Ant isn’t a playmaker. But if he is going to have the ball in his hands to start a possession he needs to know what to do with it, and how to punish the defense for overloading on him.

We hear about the 8 starters on the Wolves every game. Most teams have 6 or maybe 7 guys like that, we have 8. That might not sound like a big deal, but it is. That means Naz can have a terrible night and someone else can pick up the slack. The starters can dig holes and the bench can dig them out. Increasing consistency is important on an individual level, but maximizing the ability of the X factor players to impact and ultimately win the game is the team priority. The other night it was DDV, and tomorrow it might be Rudy. Regardless of who and how and why, we need to know what to do when that X factor goes off.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#774 » by Norseman79 » Wed Jan 1, 2025 9:15 pm

winforlose wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
winforlose wrote:
DDV just dropped 26 the game before last. Naz was 6th man of the year and he didn’t do it without scoring. NAW can go off and win you a handful of games per year. Jaden can go off and win you a handful of games per year. Rudy can go off and win you a handful of games per year. The issues are talent related, the issues are fit and scheme. Ant needs to be better with the ball in his hand, the guys without the ball need to be better in a number of ways, (off ball screens, backdoor cuts, on ball screens, ect…) We have the talent, we are not using it correctly.



I only disagree with two things you said, one is Ant needing to be better with the ball in his hands. We need to get a playmaking point guard to take some of that pressure off of Ant. He is a scorer who can make plays for others, he isn't a playmaker for others who can score.

The other thing I disagree with is you mention it not being a talent thing, everything you said about guys going off is true and it's also true for pretty much every team in the league. We need someone who is consistent. Not one game here, one game there. This team, as is, SHOULD make the playoffs, COULD win a first round series depending on matchup, but, short of very unforeseen developments would stop there.


I agree Ant isn’t a playmaker. But if he is going to have the ball in his hands to start a possession he needs to know what to do with it, and how to punish the defense for overloading on him.

We hear about the 8 starters on the Wolves every game. Most teams have 6 or maybe 7 guys like that, we have 8. That might not sound like a big deal, but it is. That means Naz can have a terrible night and someone else can pick up the slack. The starters can dig holes and the bench can dig them out. Increasing consistency is important on an individual level, but maximizing the ability of the X factor players to impact and ultimately win the game is the team priority. The other night it was DDV, and tomorrow it might be Rudy. Regardless of who and how and why, we need to know what to do when that X factor goes off.


Who exactly are the 8 starters? I count three, maybe four on a Western Conference playoff team.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#775 » by winforlose » Thu Jan 2, 2025 1:18 am

Norseman79 wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:

I only disagree with two things you said, one is Ant needing to be better with the ball in his hands. We need to get a playmaking point guard to take some of that pressure off of Ant. He is a scorer who can make plays for others, he isn't a playmaker for others who can score.

The other thing I disagree with is you mention it not being a talent thing, everything you said about guys going off is true and it's also true for pretty much every team in the league. We need someone who is consistent. Not one game here, one game there. This team, as is, SHOULD make the playoffs, COULD win a first round series depending on matchup, but, short of very unforeseen developments would stop there.


I agree Ant isn’t a playmaker. But if he is going to have the ball in his hands to start a possession he needs to know what to do with it, and how to punish the defense for overloading on him.

We hear about the 8 starters on the Wolves every game. Most teams have 6 or maybe 7 guys like that, we have 8. That might not sound like a big deal, but it is. That means Naz can have a terrible night and someone else can pick up the slack. The starters can dig holes and the bench can dig them out. Increasing consistency is important on an individual level, but maximizing the ability of the X factor players to impact and ultimately win the game is the team priority. The other night it was DDV, and tomorrow it might be Rudy. Regardless of who and how and why, we need to know what to do when that X factor goes off.


Who exactly are the 8 starters? I count three, maybe four on a Western Conference playoff team.


Mike is the weakest of the 8 ATM. He can go off like he did last night, but his decline is partially age related, partially role related (not running the offense enough,) and partially Finch related (not enough teammates doing the things he needs to succeed.)

Jaden is slumping, but SGA only went off after Jaden went out. There is a lot of noise surrounding Jaden’s numbers. But our defense is a team switching scheme with help and rotations. Disrupt either the help or rotation timing and the defense doesn’t hold up (looking at Randle.) add to that Jaden has played more than 2/3rds of his minutes with Ant and Randle. That two man pairing makes everyone worse.

I don’t think I need to explain Ant, Randle, Rudy.

Naz, DDV, and NAW have all shown that they are capable of starting. Two of the last 3 games DDV played 35+ minutes and the game before last he dropped 26.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#776 » by Norseman79 » Thu Jan 2, 2025 1:51 am

winforlose wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
winforlose wrote:
I agree Ant isn’t a playmaker. But if he is going to have the ball in his hands to start a possession he needs to know what to do with it, and how to punish the defense for overloading on him.

We hear about the 8 starters on the Wolves every game. Most teams have 6 or maybe 7 guys like that, we have 8. That might not sound like a big deal, but it is. That means Naz can have a terrible night and someone else can pick up the slack. The starters can dig holes and the bench can dig them out. Increasing consistency is important on an individual level, but maximizing the ability of the X factor players to impact and ultimately win the game is the team priority. The other night it was DDV, and tomorrow it might be Rudy. Regardless of who and how and why, we need to know what to do when that X factor goes off.


Who exactly are the 8 starters? I count three, maybe four on a Western Conference playoff team.


Mike is the weakest of the 8 ATM. He can go off like he did last night, but his decline is partially age related, partially role related (not running the offense enough,) and partially Finch related (not enough teammates doing the things he needs to succeed.)

Jaden is slumping, but SGA only went off after Jaden went out. There is a lot of noise surrounding Jaden’s numbers. But our defense is a team switching scheme with help and rotations. Disrupt either the help or rotation timing and the defense doesn’t hold up (looking at Randle.) add to that Jaden has played more than 2/3rds of his minutes with Ant and Randle. That two man pairing makes everyone worse.

I don’t think I need to explain Ant, Randle, Rudy.

Naz, DDV, and NAW have all shown that they are capable of starting. Two of the last 3 games DDV played 35+ minutes and the game before last he dropped 26.


I guess I don't see NAW as a starter on a good team, DD either. I think they are great 6th man material. I mean they could easily start for Washington, but are they starting for Boston? Phoenix? OKC? Houston? I guess maybe. Mike has massively declined. Rudy isn't the same Rudy as last year either. He is still a difference maker defensively, but limitations on offense seem to have grown. My point is the ball is in Ants possession to start the offense too often. If we had 8 capable starters it shouldn't have to be Ant iniating and creating for others
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#777 » by winforlose » Thu Jan 2, 2025 4:31 am

Norseman79 wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:
Who exactly are the 8 starters? I count three, maybe four on a Western Conference playoff team.


Mike is the weakest of the 8 ATM. He can go off like he did last night, but his decline is partially age related, partially role related (not running the offense enough,) and partially Finch related (not enough teammates doing the things he needs to succeed.)

Jaden is slumping, but SGA only went off after Jaden went out. There is a lot of noise surrounding Jaden’s numbers. But our defense is a team switching scheme with help and rotations. Disrupt either the help or rotation timing and the defense doesn’t hold up (looking at Randle.) add to that Jaden has played more than 2/3rds of his minutes with Ant and Randle. That two man pairing makes everyone worse.

I don’t think I need to explain Ant, Randle, Rudy.

Naz, DDV, and NAW have all shown that they are capable of starting. Two of the last 3 games DDV played 35+ minutes and the game before last he dropped 26.


I guess I don't see NAW as a starter on a good team, DD either. I think they are great 6th man material. I mean they could easily start for Washington, but are they starting for Boston? Phoenix? OKC? Houston? I guess maybe. Mike has massively declined. Rudy isn't the same Rudy as last year either. He is still a difference maker defensively, but limitations on offense seem to have grown. My point is the ball is in Ants possession to start the offense too often. If we had 8 capable starters it shouldn't have to be Ant iniating and creating for others


Key words “have to be.” It doesn’t. This is a poorly constructed roster lacking play making depth. I have been shouting from the rooftops that TC had a TERRIBLE off season. It is even more obvious when you factor in that Kyle left for basically nothing and we could have Tyus and his bird rights this season had we made the right move last season. Back to the point, Mike is better running things, Finch isn’t going that direction. That is made more complicated by Randle also wanting to initiate. This is a rotation issue, a roster construction issue, and an ego issue with Randle starting over Naz. None of that diminishes the fact that Naz should start, DDV was a starter last year, and we have a thread which states by an overwhelming margin that NAW probably starts on other teams.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#778 » by Klomp » Thu Jan 2, 2025 6:04 am

Another name I'm keeping my eyes on is Bruce Brown. Feels like a Donte/NAW-type acquisition who would intrigue this front office. I know it's another guard, whatever. He knows how to play.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
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Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#779 » by FrenchMinnyFan » Thu Jan 2, 2025 6:43 am

Any chance we could go for Sexton or Clarkson? jazz are sellers right now. It won't upgrade the defense part, but offense will look better. Sexton is able to pass and attack the rim. Clarkson when hot is a scoring machine.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#780 » by cmoss84 » Thu Jan 2, 2025 6:48 am

Don't ask me how I came up with this. Probably doesn't make any sense! Just wanted an excuse to talk some sports and say Happy New Year! Here is your typical 4-team, 22-player trade.

Chi OUT: Ball, Vucevic, Smith, Craig, Phillips, '25 FRP
Chi IN: Randle, DD, H. Jones, Alvarado, Len, '25 FRP (Mil), '27 SRP (Chi)
WHY? Excellent value coming in. Tons of depth.
(1st apron hard-capped)
White-Dosunmu-Lavine-DD-Giddey-Buzelis-H. Jones-Williams-Randle-Len-Carter-THT

NOP OUT: Ingram, Murray, H. Jones, Hawkins, Alvarado, '25 FRP (Mil), '25 FRP (NOP), '27 FRP (NOP), '27 SRP (Chi)
NOP IN: Fox, Vucevic, Huerter, Lyles, TSJ, Minott, Garza, Phillips
WHY? Complete tear-down. Ingram not getting much return. Auditions for Fox and company. Speeding up the rebuild.
(1st apron hard-capped)
Fox-McCollum-Huerter-Murphy III-Zion-Vucevic-Lyles-bunch of young guys

SAC OUT: Fox, Huerter, K. Murray, Lyles, Len, J-Mac
SAC IN: Ingram, Murray, Conley, Craig, '25 FRP (NOP), '27 FRP (NOP)
WHY? SAC is lost in the west. Trying something new and a chance to sign Ingram if it works out. Murray + picks if nothing else works out. Draft a PG and have Mike as player/coach.
(1st apron hard-capped)
Murray-Monk-Derozan-Ingram-Sabonis core with plenty of valuable picks in immediate future

MN OUT: Randle, DD, Conley, TSJ, Garza, Minott
MN IN: Ball, Smith, K. Murray, Hawkins, J-Mac, '25 FRP (Chi)
WHY? Ship out Randle and DD for max value. Resign NAW and NAZ. See how Ball works. New scenery for K. Murray. Smith is nice. Always liked Hawkins. Teens draft pick to boot while getting into 1st apron. We hold on to Jaden as well, while giving our young prospects a better chance elsewhere. Find and/or draft a cheap backup C with next move(s).
(1st apron)

Ball-NAW-RD-J-Mac
ANT-NAW-Hawkins
Jaden-Murray
Naz-Smith-Jaden-Miller
Rudy-Smith-Naz-Miller
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

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