Andrew Wiggins and the wolves future

[KGdaBom]

Great! Can't wait for this mysterious person to "unlock" Wiggins' motivation.

Don't forget college too! There were questions about his effort there also. Almost like scouts talked about this before he was drafted and 4 years later nothings changed other then being rewarded by Glen Taylor.

Youre ignoring logic for emotional whining. What I said was fact, if you want to dispute it then do so. But all you are doing is what I called you out for initially, implying that its impossible to get more from him because his previous coaches didnt. Again, their failure doesnt prove anything other than their failure. We agree they failed, you simply dont want to apply responsibility for the failure because you apparently believe its impossible. I disagree and point to proven times when hes shown to play harder, such as Tor/Cle games.

Your "mysterious person to unlock wiggins motivation!" sounds just like kgdabombs "crystal ball to know the butler trade would be a disaster!". Since you are unable to quantify what would be needed to accomplish the goal you simply chalk it up to magic, no different than his inability to critically evaluate the trade so he determined a crystal ball was needed to make such a prediction.

Crystal balls and mystery men...I will just rely on logic if you dont mind.

The next time you rely on logic will be the first.

[AirP.]

Great! Can't wait for this mysterious person to "unlock" Wiggins' motivation.

Don't forget college too! There were questions about his effort there also. Almost like scouts talked about this before he was drafted and 4 years later nothings changed other then being rewarded by Glen Taylor.

Youre ignoring logic for emotional whining. What I said was fact, if you want to dispute it then do so. But all you are doing is what I called you out for initially, implying that its impossible to get more from him because his previous coaches didnt. Again, their failure doesnt prove anything other than their failure. We agree they failed, you simply dont want to apply responsibility for the failure because you apparently believe its impossible. I disagree and point to proven times when hes shown to play harder, such as Tor/Cle games.

Your "mysterious person to unlock wiggins motivation!" sounds just like kgdabombs "crystal ball to know the butler trade would be a disaster!". Since you are unable to quantify what would be needed to accomplish the goal you simply chalk it up to magic, no different than his inability to critically evaluate the trade so he determined a crystal ball was needed to make such a prediction.

Crystal balls and mystery men...I will just rely on logic if you dont mind.

Looking at someone's history and seeing they've always been a certain way and expecting it to continue, that's simple logic. You expecting someone(no idea who) to completely change Wiggins where he's motivated seems like hope... not logic. It would be nice if that were to happen, it would help Minnesota greatly but the chances of that happening with Wiggins history isn't likely at all.

[vagelis]

Butler is out, J. Crawford has gone, Rose was out today and Wiggins was not involved in the game one more time.
So, it seems that Thibs does this for another reason and not because he thinks that he has better options in offense.
I mean C. J. Williams(who is this guy?) took more touches and shots from your max player. Something is very strange in this situation.
Maybe Thibs tries to prove Taylor wrong and underutilizes Wiggins as much as he can.
Or if Wiggins is Taylor's favorite player, Thibs is just trying to get fired

[minimus]

Butler is out, J. Crawford has gone, Rose was out today and Wiggins was not involved in the game one more time.
So, it seems that Thibs does this for another reason and not because he thinks that he has better options in offense.
I mean C. J. Williams(who is this guy?) took more touches and shots from your max player. Something is very strange in this situation.
Maybe Thibs tries to prove Taylor wrong and underutilizes Wiggins as much as he can.
Or if Wiggins is Taylor's favorite player, Thibs is just trying to get fired

I dont think Thibs does it for a purpose. I think that Wiggins needs someone like Rubio who can feed him, KAT and makes offense work. Current situation is absolutely worse for any team. I would not expect anything positive first couple of months after trade. Even for experienced players it takes time to figure out.

[KGdaBom]

Butler is out, J. Crawford has gone, Rose was out today and Wiggins was not involved in the game one more time.
So, it seems that Thibs does this for another reason and not because he thinks that he has better options in offense.
I mean C. J. Williams(who is this guy?) took more touches and shots from your max player. Something is very strange in this situation.
Maybe Thibs tries to prove Taylor wrong and underutilizes Wiggins as much as he can.
Or if Wiggins is Taylor's favorite player, Thibs is just trying to get fired

I dont think Thibs does it for a purpose. I think that Wiggins needs someone like Rubio who can feed him, KAT and makes offense work. Current situation is absolutely worse for any team. I would not expect anything positive first couple of months after trade. Even for experienced players it takes time to figure out.

Don't expect anything positive for at least five years after trade Minimus.

[minimus]

Butler is out, J. Crawford has gone, Rose was out today and Wiggins was not involved in the game one more time.
So, it seems that Thibs does this for another reason and not because he thinks that he has better options in offense.
I mean C. J. Williams(who is this guy?) took more touches and shots from your max player. Something is very strange in this situation.
Maybe Thibs tries to prove Taylor wrong and underutilizes Wiggins as much as he can.
Or if Wiggins is Taylor's favorite player, Thibs is just trying to get fired

I dont think Thibs does it for a purpose. I think that Wiggins needs someone like Rubio who can feed him, KAT and makes offense work. Current situation is absolutely worse for any team. I would not expect anything positive first couple of months after trade. Even for experienced players it takes time to figure out.

Don't expect anything positive for at least five years after trade Minimus.

Depends of management/coaching and a bit of luck

[KGdaBom]

I dont think Thibs does it for a purpose. I think that Wiggins needs someone like Rubio who can feed him, KAT and makes offense work. Current situation is absolutely worse for any team. I would not expect anything positive first couple of months after trade. Even for experienced players it takes time to figure out.

Don't expect anything positive for at least five years after trade Minimus.

Depends of management/coaching and a bit of luck

I'm not saying it can't happen. Just saying don't expect it.

[Killboard]

Butler is out, J. Crawford has gone, Rose was out today and Wiggins was not involved in the game one more time.
So, it seems that Thibs does this for another reason and not because he thinks that he has better options in offense.
I mean C. J. Williams(who is this guy?) took more touches and shots from your max player. Something is very strange in this situation.
Maybe Thibs tries to prove Taylor wrong and underutilizes Wiggins as much as he can.
Or if Wiggins is Taylor's favorite player, Thibs is just trying to get fired

I dont think Thibs does it for a purpose. I think that Wiggins needs someone like Rubio who can feed him, KAT and makes offense work. Current situation is absolutely worse for any team. I would not expect anything positive first couple of months after trade. Even for experienced players it takes time to figure out.

Wiggins is alienated totally from Thibs. I'm not a Wiggins fan, but Thibs made all his efforts to make his life miserable. And while I'm not pardoning Wiggins, Thibs should be pointed for his total lack of development and lethargic attitude. It's the coach job to motivate his players and Thibs way didn't work. In his first season Thibs tried to put the ball in his hands while parked Rubio in the corner. In his second season he picked Crawford to play along Wiggins, I have hard time choosing someone worse from a skillset perspective. Wiggins is probably waiting for Thibs to be fired and not even trying.

[KGdaBom]

Butler is out, J. Crawford has gone, Rose was out today and Wiggins was not involved in the game one more time.
So, it seems that Thibs does this for another reason and not because he thinks that he has better options in offense.
I mean C. J. Williams(who is this guy?) took more touches and shots from your max player. Something is very strange in this situation.
Maybe Thibs tries to prove Taylor wrong and underutilizes Wiggins as much as he can.
Or if Wiggins is Taylor's favorite player, Thibs is just trying to get fired

I dont think Thibs does it for a purpose. I think that Wiggins needs someone like Rubio who can feed him, KAT and makes offense work. Current situation is absolutely worse for any team. I would not expect anything positive first couple of months after trade. Even for experienced players it takes time to figure out.

Wiggins is alienated totally from Thibs. I'm not a Wiggins fan, but Thibs made all his efforts to make his life miserable. And while I'm not pardoning Wiggins, Thibs should be pointed for his total lack of development and lethargic attitude. It's the coach job to motivate his players and Thibs way didn't work. In his first season Thibs tried to put the ball in his hands while parked Rubio in the corner. In his second season he picked Crawford to play along Wiggins, I have hard time choosing someone worse from a skillset perspective. Wiggins is probably waiting for Thibs to be fired and not even trying.

If what you say is true then Wiggins is completely pathetic and will never be good at basketball. Somebody who wouldn't try because he doesn't like the coach???????????? Do you seriously believe that. I have a very low opinion of Wiggins and I still don't believe he is that pathetic.

[CP1981]

Jackie MacMullan said something about Wiggins a few weeks ago on NBA The Jump that just might be true

She said "maybe Andrew Wiggins just isn't that good".. It was something like that but either way her point stands

[Rashodamus]

If what you say is true then Wiggins is completely pathetic and will never be good at basketball. Somebody who wouldn't try because he doesn't like the coach???????????? Do you seriously believe that. I have a very low opinion of Wiggins and I still don't believe he is that pathetic.

I love people who think yelling at round pegs to fit in square holes is coaching, and their lack of fitting in square holes is evidence of the pegs failure.

Heres a visualization of the situation for you...

Thibs head on a small childs body, hes got his little plastic hammer and playset and is adopted by Glenny Taybucks and brought to this fabulous new home with a bunch of cool toys. Lil orphan Thibby starts trying to jam his new pieces into his vintage bulls playset and they dont seem to fit no matter how much he hammers and screams.

Theres a clear reason I stated in this thread multiple times that we cant even accurately evaluate Wiggins until Thibs is gone. His development under him has been nonexistent and then regression. Thibs has done nothing to make you lean to his side, NOTHING. Hes a bum who got to the second round with an MVP and has never accomplished anything else. I would be surprised if he gets another head coaching job ever again.

[Killboard]

I dont think Thibs does it for a purpose. I think that Wiggins needs someone like Rubio who can feed him, KAT and makes offense work. Current situation is absolutely worse for any team. I would not expect anything positive first couple of months after trade. Even for experienced players it takes time to figure out.

Wiggins is alienated totally from Thibs. I'm not a Wiggins fan, but Thibs made all his efforts to make his life miserable. And while I'm not pardoning Wiggins, Thibs should be pointed for his total lack of development and lethargic attitude. It's the coach job to motivate his players and Thibs way didn't work. In his first season Thibs tried to put the ball in his hands while parked Rubio in the corner. In his second season he picked Crawford to play along Wiggins, I have hard time choosing someone worse from a skillset perspective. Wiggins is probably waiting for Thibs to be fired and not even trying.

If what you say is true then Wiggins is completely pathetic and will never be good at basketball. Somebody who wouldn't try because he doesn't like the coach???????????? Do you seriously believe that. I have a very low opinion of Wiggins and I still don't believe he is that pathetic.

Hard to know who is more pathetic if that was the case, but some personal beef is going on, and that's why Wiggins brother was vocal. I don't know if Thibs aligned with Jimmy even after the trade request or if he aligned to him for the reasons why Jimmy wants out, but something is fractured seeing the lackluster performances in the preseason.

What I know is that Wiggins development was a key factor (even if was Taylor who made the call ) for Thibs success and seems to have failed miserably.

[minimus]

Idk, but maybe the problem with Wiggins is his basketball IQ. I mean he can be lazy scorer, but look at Harden he is still efficient. Even Melo in his prime was a great offensive weapon.

[KGdaBom]

If what you say is true then Wiggins is completely pathetic and will never be good at basketball. Somebody who wouldn't try because he doesn't like the coach???????????? Do you seriously believe that. I have a very low opinion of Wiggins and I still don't believe he is that pathetic.

I love people who think yelling at round pegs to fit in square holes is coaching, and their lack of fitting in square holes is evidence of the pegs failure.

Heres a visualization of the situation for you...

Thibs head on a small childs body, hes got his little plastic hammer and playset and is adopted by Glenny Taybucks and brought to this fabulous new home with a bunch of cool toys. Lil orphan Thibby starts trying to jam his new pieces into his vintage bulls playset and they dont seem to fit no matter how much he hammers and screams.

Theres a clear reason I stated in this thread multiple times that we cant even accurately evaluate Wiggins until Thibs is gone. His development under him has been nonexistent and then regression. Thibs has done nothing to make you lean to his side, NOTHING. Hes a bum who got to the second round with an MVP and has never accomplished anything else. I would be surprised if he gets another head coaching job ever again.

The facts are he added 18 wins to the Wolves in two years. Everything else is speculation. You're talking about playsets and pegs.

[KGdaBom]

Wiggins is alienated totally from Thibs. I'm not a Wiggins fan, but Thibs made all his efforts to make his life miserable. And while I'm not pardoning Wiggins, Thibs should be pointed for his total lack of development and lethargic attitude. It's the coach job to motivate his players and Thibs way didn't work. In his first season Thibs tried to put the ball in his hands while parked Rubio in the corner. In his second season he picked Crawford to play along Wiggins, I have hard time choosing someone worse from a skillset perspective. Wiggins is probably waiting for Thibs to be fired and not even trying.

If what you say is true then Wiggins is completely pathetic and will never be good at basketball. Somebody who wouldn't try because he doesn't like the coach???????????? Do you seriously believe that. I have a very low opinion of Wiggins and I still don't believe he is that pathetic.

Hard to know who is more pathetic if that was the case, but some personal beef is going on, and that's why Wiggins brother was vocal. I don't know if Thibs aligned with Jimmy even after the trade request or if he aligned to him for the reasons why Jimmy wants out, but something is fractured seeing the lackluster performances in the preseason.

What I know is that Wiggins development was a key factor (even if was Taylor who made the call ) for Thibs success and seems to have failed miserably.

I think Thibs tried developing Wiggins and turned him into a 23 PPG scorer, however that only led to 31 wins. So Thibs wisely decided on moving on from that and turning Wiggins into a role player. That got us to 47 wins.

[gandlogo]

The fact that he hasn't improved over the course of his career is telling and an indication of his desire to play - regardless of who is coaching him. He could have improved his handles and shooting long ago. MJ didn't roll out of UNC with a killer turnaround jumper. Love struggled much of his rookie season. Both worked on elements of their games - and Love changed his body - to become more than what they were in college and great at the NBA level. Wiggins has never done that. Further, some of the gaps in his game could be mitigated with effort. Just a tiny bit of effort would help. At this point he's Shabazz, without the motor.

[Rashodamus]

The facts are he added 18 wins to the Wolves in two years. Everything else is speculation. You're talking about playsets and pegs.

No, the fact is the team won 18 more games in 17-18 than in 15-16...so? Adelmans teams accomplished the same feat without HOF talents and defensive Stalwarts like pek, love, and martin starting.

What a meaningless post. If I get in a car and drive 80mph do you declare me an awesome driver because I was able to make a vehicle do something totally within its capability?

[Rashodamus]

I think Thibs tried developing Wiggins and turned him into a 23 PPG scorer, however that only led to 31 wins. So Thibs wisely decided on moving on from that and turning Wiggins into a role player. That got us to 47 wins.

You are all over the place.

Yes, Thibs creating the worst Wiggins we have ever seen was what made our team gain wins.

[KGdaBom]

I think Thibs tried developing Wiggins and turned him into a 23 PPG scorer, however that only led to 31 wins. So Thibs wisely decided on moving on from that and turning Wiggins into a role player. That got us to 47 wins.

You are all over the place.

Yes, Thibs creating the worst Wiggins we have ever seen was what made our team gain wins.

Being wise enough to move on from Wiggins being an important part of the team is what did it.

[Killboard]

The facts are he added 18 wins to the Wolves in two years. Everything else is speculation. You're talking about playsets and pegs.

No, the fact is the team won 18 more games in 17-18 than in 15-16...so? Adelmans teams accomplished the same feat without HOF talents and defensive Stalwarts like pek, love, and martin starting.

What a meaningless post. If I get in a car and drive 80mph do you declare me an awesome driver because I was able to make a vehicle do something totally within its capability?

So if Thibs did his work well the current roster would be better than the 31 wins we had before Butler, since not only the roster should have better teamwork, and developed youngs , but also is like 40M above that team in salaries. Don't really know how many wins that will translate.