Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

[post0115]

Thinking a little more...

Until Layman returns...

Starters - 1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Graham, Wiggins, Culver, Napier
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Noah Vonleh, Martin, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): Dieng, Roco, KBD, Okogie, Wiggins

2nd Half
1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Graham, Culver, Napier, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Noah Vonleh, Martin, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, KBD, Okogie, Wiggins

Minutes: KAT 34 minutes, Roco 28 minutes, Wiggins 32 minutes, Teague 16 minutes, Culver 24 minutes, Okogie 24 minutes, KBD 28 minutes, Napier 8-10 minutes, Graham 8-10 minutes, Dieng 16 minutes, Martin 12 minutes, Vonleh 12 minutes

I would also run load management on Teague on back-to-backs, etc.

Once Layman returns...

Starters - 1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Layman, Martin, Wiggins, Culver
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Noah Vonleh, Layman, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): Dieng, Roco, KBD, Okogie, Wiggins

2nd Half
1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Layman, Martin, Culver, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Noah Vonleh, Layman, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, KBD, Okogie, Wiggins

Minutes: KAT 34 minutes, Roco 28 minutes, Wiggins 32 minutes, Teague 16 minutes, Culver 24 minutes, Okogie 24 minutes, KBD 28 minutes, Napier 0 minutes (replaces Teague in games we rest Teague), Graham 0 minutes, Dieng 16 minutes, Martin 8-10 minutes, Vonleh 12 minutes, Layman 20 minutes

[Dewey]

Dlo trade plus Layman return is best case scenario until summer

[Jedzz]

Dlo trade plus Layman return is best case scenario until summer

But nothing will happen in the summer after a Dlo trade besides losing any players we can't afford any longer. Unless the Dlo trade is also contingent on Wiggins exiting.

[Klomp]

Dlo trade plus Layman return is best case scenario until summer

But nothing will happen in the summer after a Dlo trade besides losing any players we can't afford any longer. Unless the Dlo trade is also contingent on Wiggins exiting.

What players would it kill us to lose in the summer because we can't afford them?

-Jeff Teague? He'd be in any Russell trade.
-Noah Vonleh? He's probably gone no matter what.
-Shabazz Napier? He probably won't cost much more than the minimum to keep at this point.
-Jordan Bell? Okay he maybe would be tough to lose, but I can't imagine he'll cost a ton to keep either.

That's it for expiring contracts. I'll gladly give every one of them up to bring in Russell, if that's the sacrifice we have to make.

[Jedzz]

Dlo trade plus Layman return is best case scenario until summer

But nothing will happen in the summer after a Dlo trade besides losing any players we can't afford any longer. Unless the Dlo trade is also contingent on Wiggins exiting.

What players would it kill us to lose in the summer because we can't afford them?

-Jeff Teague? He'd be in any Russell trade.
-Noah Vonleh? He's probably gone no matter what.
-Shabazz Napier? He probably won't cost much more than the minimum to keep at this point.
-Jordan Bell? Okay he maybe would be tough to lose, but I can't imagine he'll cost a ton to keep either.

That's it for expiring contracts. I'll gladly give every one of them up to bring in Russell, if that's the sacrifice we have to make.

That's fine. Still have to fill out a roster somehow. I'm fine will bringing half the Iowa team up. Unless you traded all the good ones away to get Dlo.

[Klomp]

The end of the roster will probably still be filled with Iowa guys. I could see Kelan Martin get a 1+3 next summer. Still have Reid and Nowell.

Vonleh, Bell and Graham if gone would be replaced by other minimum-level deals, most likely.

You might have to get one extra minimum player, if swapping two guys for Russell. Otherwise it wouldn't be that much different in terms of salary breakdown from what it is this year.

[Jedzz]

The end of the roster will probably still be filled with Iowa guys. I could see Kelan Martin get a 1+3 next summer. Still have Reid and Nowell.

Vonleh, Bell and Graham if gone would be replaced by other minimum-level deals, most likely.

You might have to get one extra minimum player, if swapping two guys for Russell. Otherwise it wouldn't be that much different in terms of salary breakdown from what it is this year.

I suppose so. Especially if we sell our FRP for Dlo, won't have to spend another 5-7MM on yet another rookie.

[minimus]

The end of the roster will probably still be filled with Iowa guys. I could see Kelan Martin get a 1+3 next summer. Still have Reid and Nowell.

Vonleh, Bell and Graham if gone would be replaced by other minimum-level deals, most likely.

You might have to get one extra minimum player, if swapping two guys for Russell. Otherwise it wouldn't be that much different in terms of salary breakdown from what it is this year.

One thing worth to mentioned. I have been watching Naz Reid Iowa highlights. As stretch 5 who duplicate KATs strength and weaknesses: excellent 3pt shooter and passer, decent rebounder, average defender and screener. He looks much quicker and athletic than during SL league, I hope he will continue to improve his body and conditioning. He can be a good screener, and good post defender that we need against some true bigs.

Saying this I think having a strong defender at PF is a must for us as we have two offensive minded C. I see KBD and Layman filling this role at some degree, but I would prefer a veteran presence here. I really like Bell but he basketball awareness and consistency are disappointing. The only players I can think about is Aminu who is out indefinitely with torn meniscus (estimated recovery 4-6 weeks). I am sure ORL would like to trade him to create some space for Isaac and Gordon and shed some salary. I'd ask Vanterpool about Aminu as PF and our medical staff and if chances that he recovers completely before next season.

Something like Teague for Aminu, Augustine, SRP + fillers would be ok deal for me. Ideally I'd resign Bell and Napier, offer Martin 1+3 deal. Then Dieng, Culver, Okogie, FRP for DLo and fillers.

Roles distribution seems good to me.

Stretch 5: KAT, Reid
Defensive minded PF: Aminu, Bell
Big wings: KBD, Layman, Martin
Defensive minded wings: RoCo
Slashers: Wiggins
Off ball cutters: KBD, Layman, Wiggins
Big ball handlers: Wiggins, DLo
Shooters: Nowell, DLo, Martin
Backup handlers: Napier
Passers: DLo, KAT, Wiggins, Reid, Napier

[minimus]

1) We need to defend, control opponent point of attack. I remember first games of his season, when Vonleh played great. He is strong, mobile and very active when containing opponent guards, he played well within drop scheme as backup big. As for starters KAT is top5 in contested shots

Read on Twitter

I am not worried about number of this shots, but I wish we try to give opponent consistently less efficient shots against KAT: floaters, constested jumpers, rather than open midrange and open 3pt shots.

I think it is not only about drop scheme, it is about players and coaching staff to adjust our game against opponent, execute in defense. It is somewhat hard without veterans. We need to be able to apply different defensive schemes against different teams, but no one from our bigs has right physical tools and IQ to be a difference maker in defense. I wish Bell had more awareness and discipline because he is our most athletically gifted big.

2) As for defend, control opponent point of attack from PG position, we have a mess at PG position. Culver is a solid defender for rookie, but not a starting PG level for playoff team. I like Napier as backup PG, he is also an acitve defender, I think his injury hurted us a lot. Okogie is an excellent individual defender but one dimensional offensive player.

3) I really wish we could acquire/develop a smallball PF who can hit open 3s and defend PF/SF, while RoCo can defend point of attack. In this case however we will need a pair of big wing/ballhandler who defend can SG/SF and rebound. Because RoCo will be on perimeter chasing ballhandlers. One big player of big backcourt is Wiggins, if Culver can fix his broken shot he will be an ideal fit in such lineup.

As player Jrue Holiday is and ideal fit here. He is in similar situation as Mike Conley. Also Conley has similar injuries concern and is not a great shooter. MIN is not built to win now, so Holiday does fit as player, but his contract does not fit our team timeline at all.
UTA traded Grayson Allen, Jae Crowder, Kyle Korver and two first-round picks to acquire Conley. So possible deal would look like:
Dieng, Culver, two FRPs. So next season we will have two All NBA Team defense players.

KAT/Reid
KBD/Layman
RoCo/Okogie
Wiggins/Nowell
Holiday/???

Another player that fits well here is Bogdan Bogdanovic he can play next to Wiggins as secondary ballhandler. As many MIN fans have already noted he may be out of reach next summer when team offer him big money.

KAT/Reid
KBD/Layman
RoCo/
Bogdanovic/Okogie
Wiggins/Nowell

[post0115]

With Dieng playing so well, how about starting Dieng and KAT together again? Dieng is actually shooting better from outside than many of our wings. Dieng/Kat at 4/5 and then Roco at the 3 with Culver at the 2 and Wiggins at the 1 until we get a legit starting PG. I also like our bench rotation of Vonleh, KBD, Martin, Okogie, and Teague for now. I stand by earlier statements that Bell and Napier should be cut.

[Slim Tubby]

This construction plan is quite simple...build a plane large enough to fly the entire franchise to Seattle. Let those folks experience the misery and disgust for the next 20 years instead of us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jedzz]

Starting to seem to me like we have yet another GM who is going to ride or die on top draft pick choices and not treat each season as important. This season seems to have been sent packing so quickly. This leaves a lot of court time on the table to finish out the season like this.

I realize a lot of people think maybe the same way, top pick makes or breaks the plan, win all or tank for the next pick. I just wish they could for once be shown something else. Like Pros being Pros for once. I look at Toronto losing Kawhi and what they are still doing this season and I see Pros. Players, coaches, gm all that seem to care about their own pride and the area they play for. Though maybe it's all up to the players first.

[shrink]

With Dieng playing so well, how about starting Dieng and KAT together again? Dieng is actually shooting better from outside than many of our wings. Dieng/Kat at 4/5 and then Roco at the 3 with Culver at the 2 and Wiggins at the 1 until we get a legit starting PG. I also like our bench rotation of Vonleh, KBD, Martin, Okogie, and Teague for now. I stand by earlier statements that Bell and Napier should be cut.

We would certainly win more games with that line-up, but the goal of this season is to teach the players to run the analytics-based 1-3-1.

We are 4th in three pointers attempted, and 29th in three point percentage. Winning games is not the priority. We are trying to teach a system, but we don’t have the personnel to run it yet.

I want Wiggins to keep making those outlet passes, even if the shooter misses, because next year’s shooter will be better.

[Jedzz]

With Dieng playing so well, how about starting Dieng and KAT together again? Dieng is actually shooting better from outside than many of our wings. Dieng/Kat at 4/5 and then Roco at the 3 with Culver at the 2 and Wiggins at the 1 until we get a legit starting PG. I also like our bench rotation of Vonleh, KBD, Martin, Okogie, and Teague for now. I stand by earlier statements that Bell and Napier should be cut.

We would certainly win more games with that line-up, but the goal of this season is to teach the players to run the analytics-based 1-3-1.

We are 4th in three pointers attempted, and 29th in three point percentage. Winning games is not the priority. We are trying to teach a system, but we don’t have the personnel to run it yet.

I want Wiggins to keep making those outlet passes, even if the shooter misses, because next year’s shooter will be better.

Doesn't this seem kind of extreme and at the same time full of holes, to suggest it takes an entire season to "teach the players" how to run the analytics based 1-3-1?

First off, it shouldn't take that long. Should be able to install something completely new over the summer and in preseason. Sure, maybe some bad or contrary habits need to take time to be ironed out of the players that have years of different styles. But this is a young team, and if it took full seasons to teach a player a new system, all these player trades of this league would be highly unsuccessful.

Secondly, we keep reading posts from people here claiming the GM and Coach don't care about these specific players, because they have plans for different players. So who are you teaching? Just the two players you have locked in at Maxes?

Either we have the dumbest set of players maybe ever collected, or this proposed excuse machine called teaching them the 1-3-1 wiith a whole season is debunked maybe by logic. At least debunked as a good excuse for everytihng.

[karch34]

I think it's a tough spot as a fan. I think the idea of 1-3-1 isn't bad and good to mold team towards some modern NBA realities. That said team is young and losing is a tough mentality to break. Good coaching adapts system to talent or lack thereof and inflexibility can get you to a place like Houston was a few years ago where they 3pt shot themselves out of the playoffs when it wasn't falling after a great run.

[minimus]

With Dieng playing so well, how about starting Dieng and KAT together again? Dieng is actually shooting better from outside than many of our wings. Dieng/Kat at 4/5 and then Roco at the 3 with Culver at the 2 and Wiggins at the 1 until we get a legit starting PG. I also like our bench rotation of Vonleh, KBD, Martin, Okogie, and Teague for now. I stand by earlier statements that Bell and Napier should be cut.

We would certainly win more games with that line-up, but the goal of this season is to teach the players to run the analytics-based 1-3-1.

We are 4th in three pointers attempted, and 29th in three point percentage. Winning games is not the priority. We are trying to teach a system, but we don’t have the personnel to run it yet.

I want Wiggins to keep making those outlet passes, even if the shooter misses, because next year’s shooter will be better.

If we want to win now we can see that there are already some win-now opportunities such as CP3 trade. CP3 is playing great, he is a top5 PG right now and shows no sign rapid decline because he relies on his high IQ and improved jumps shoot.

However, Rosas does not rush, after only two month of regular season, through up and downs we are pretty consistent in terms of vision, defensive and offensive schemes. For better or worse we now see all advantages and disadvantages of our system, we can see how players fit. How players should be developed and which players we need next season. Reid, Nowell, Martin are playing well in gleague and our Iowa team is finally playing same style basketball with right coaching. So I am very satisfied with how our development team is working now.

As for playing Dieng, Teague etc. Fans are losing patience, which is understandable but right now we are not playing only for results. We need to maximize our assets, make a right trade and continue to build around KAT and Wiggins. To be honest as GM Rosas has already exceeded expectations. When he spoke this off-season about developing Wiggins I honestly was very sceptical. Right now AW is having his best year in offense AND he is playing defense. Please note that we are speaking about 150mil contract, I mean we should look at it from management perspectives. That's number one priority. Teague and Dieng value are next priority before this trade deadline. I am sure that second half of this season will be very different: Reid and Nowell will get more opportunities with main team, Martin and maybe mclaughlin will sign a 1+3 deal etc.

It will be funny to read all this posts at the end of season.

[Jedzz]

I think it's a tough spot as a fan. I think the idea of 1-3-1 isn't bad and good to mold team towards some modern NBA realities. That said team is young and losing is a tough mentality to break. Good coaching adapts system to talent or lack thereof and inflexibility can get you to a place like Houston was a few years ago where they 3pt shot themselves out of the playoffs when it wasn't falling after a great run.

Great point, and I think we have seen that stuboornees already have the same outcome a few times this season here. That inflexibility. People have been talking about it.

Although, I would argue that the team maybe hasn't exactly looked as strict to their system for some time now. It started that way, but things have become maybe a little sloppy and mixed up over the last 15-18 games. Maybe it's due to the manydeep bench minutes.

+We've seen a few games where they appeared to focus much more intensely on driving to the basket.
+We've seen way too much dual PG rotations that defy 1-3-1 unless they believe these points such as Napier/Teague can be claimed as wings too. Which I maybe wouldn't.
+We've also maybe have seen a lack of devotion to reeling in rebounds based on the high probability locations of bounce outs.

Maybe only the avoidance of long twos has held firm. Athough I think we saw Wiggins taking a few from further back lately when opponents collapsed around dfending the paint due to little threat from 3. Especially since Towns has been out.

The theory that Wiggins can't be allowed to run point due to the system desired doesn't hold much water when I see two other points on the floor together. It's starting to resemble Thibs' first season, where he trialed and errored numerous things testing players out and nothing more. Only, Ryan was here for all that and knows the players that remained. So, why are we appearing to be such a meanering test bunny team if there is that familiarity with some players already and the system they are supposed to be locked into? My only guess is the pressure of losses and use of other players is forcing it.

[Calinks]

Toronto built their team through consistency. They spend a lot of years being really good but never great. Kawhi finally got them over the hump. A lot of their players are guys who were not that great early on but they stuck with it and grew with the team.

The wolves have never had that consistency, every 2-3 seasons we blow it up and start over. Why I don't just want to fire sale everyone. I do think we have too many low level and non NBA players but we need to get some consistency going too. We can't keep changing coaches, GM's, and players every other season.

Fact is we are at the start of ANOTHER rebuild. That's what it is. We got to be patient, this is year zero. Thibs blew up the last rebuild when he traded Lavine and Rubio. Then that rebuild got blown up when we traded Butler. This is a new project.

[minimus]

Watching Napier and Culver running the point you can see how good we will be with ballhandler who can push tempo and execute within our offensive scheme and defend. Last game we execute our first alleyoop this season, but all these cross passes, short rolls etc it should be done from ballhandler. I mean KAT can play point center at some degree, Wiggins is getting better at drive and kick, but it is just another dimension that we can see in last games with Napier. Yes, Culver can't shoot, but as defender, ballhandler and passer he is already solid.

[Jedzz]

here we go again with the Culver point dreams
Give him a few years of slashing, driving, finishing and dishing from Wing, working to improve his shot more. Once he's built an ability to shoot, then ok.

Napier is working because he's hitting baskets from any depth. He's finishing more at the net and from 3. He's doing it at 30+ minutes. That's what Wolves were missing. Culver can't offer all that yet and he has not been in these past few games. I don't get why people can't be okay with him being a wing for now?