*** Wolves @ Kings - Wednesday Night - 9pm CT FSN ***

[Domejandro]

Ant gives good effort defensively the vast majority of the time.

He really doesn't. I understand rooting for the home guy, but you still need to be honest when it comes to his flaws. Edwards' lack of effort on defense is abundantly clear, night in and night out. You can take the film from any game and you'll see him walking around and jogging back most of the time.

Now, you may think like many Wolves fans that he will change that, and that's ok, but right now he's just coasting on defense and most of his 'effort' comes when he overplays his man or jumps into a passing lane hoping to come up with a steal, which more often than not backfires and leaves his guy undefended.

I think you’re mistaking lack of effort with getting lost on a particular defensive sequence. I really have not seen him loaf or willingly not try very often defensively. I do, however, see him get lost more often than I would like. Dlo on the other hand doesn’t give af on the defensive end

This just is objectively wrong, dude is a really lazy transition defender. Like, notably so. Dude constantly misses rotations as well, which is often an effort thing. He doesn't box out. Could he get better? Absolutely! That said, saying that you have not seen him loaf on defense is, frankly, fantasyland kind of stuff.

[Klomp]

Whether it is on the lowest level of competition or on NBA level. Doesn't matter.

Playing average defense is the the easiest part of the game because it is basically all about commitment and hustle.
You don't have to be talented, you don't have to be skilled, you just have to hustle and stay in front of your guy.

What is much harder is to become excellent on defense. Because it relies on truely reading the opponents movements in advance, having a physical advantage, studying the oppoennts, knowing their sweet spots, etc.

Wolves are not even close to even reaching that basic average level. Night in, night out. There's literally no commitment and hustle whatsoever from certain, almost always the same players. All that offensive skills don't mean a damn if your defense is a handing out layups and open 3's every other possession. There's no defensive mindset, no hustle and no commitment in this organization.

Until the day this finally changes, Wolves team is f*cked.

These types of games happen over the course of a season. Especially when there's two similar teams, these things can easily turn into a track meet. I would love to see us allowing less than 100 points in games we score 125+, but that's not necessarily realistic. Not even the 73-win Warriors did that on a nightly basis.

To the bolded, see the Brooklyn Nets. They aren't much better than us on defense yet they're tied for the best record in the East.

Everyone gushes about the New York Knicks, and that's fine. But with all of that defense, they still only average outscoring their opponents by 2 points per game. Does it really matter if you're outscoring teams 105-103 or 125-123?

And it'd be something if the team was claiming they're building a defensive juggernaut. But nobody has ever said that. This team will have to outscore its opponents. That's why they've accumulated such a diverse set of offensive talent in Towns, Russell, Edwards, Beasley, etc. I don't really want to take a step back on offense if it means a tiny step forward on defense. But if you guys would rather build your team full of Okogies and Rubios, go ahead.

[m2002brian]

Whether it is on the lowest level of competition or on NBA level. Doesn't matter.

Playing average defense is the the easiest part of the game because it is basically all about commitment and hustle.
You don't have to be talented, you don't have to be skilled, you just have to hustle and stay in front of your guy.

What is much harder is to become excellent on defense. Because it relies on truely reading the opponents movements in advance, having a physical advantage, studying the oppoennts, knowing their sweet spots, etc.

Wolves are not even close to even reaching that basic average level. Night in, night out. There's literally no commitment and hustle whatsoever from certain, almost always the same players. All that offensive skills don't mean a damn if your defense is a handing out layups and open 3's every other possession. There's no defensive mindset, no hustle and no commitment in this organization.

Until the day this finally changes, Wolves team is f*cked.

These types of games happen over the course of a season. Especially when there's two similar teams, these things can easily turn into a track meet. I would love to see us allowing less than 100 points in games we score 125+, but that's not necessarily realistic. Not even the 73-win Warriors did that on a nightly basis.

To the bolded, see the Brooklyn Nets. They aren't much better than us on defense yet they're tied for the best record in the East.

Everyone gushes about the New York Knicks, and that's fine. But with all of that defense, they still only average outscoring their opponents by 2 points per game. Does it really matter if you're outscoring teams 105-103 or 125-123?

And it'd be something if the team was claiming they're building a defensive juggernaut. But nobody has ever said that. This team will have to outscore its opponents. That's why they've accumulated such a diverse set of offensive talent in Towns, Russell, Edwards, Beasley, etc. I don't really want to take a step back on offense if it means a tiny step forward on defense. But if you guys would rather build your team full of Okogies and Rubios, go ahead.

2004 pistons. How many 20ppg scores did they have?
What was there avg margin of victory?
What were their offensive and defensive rankings?

0
6
16
2

That’s all need to know to win games in this league. Share the ball and play league avg offense but hustle your ass off, play solidly good to great defense and enjoy the victories.

Sadly this team is filled with guys who either don’t care to play defense or lack the mental ability to (or both).

A Towns trade for a solid defensive power forward who can score 15ppg would be addition by subtraction. Cutting DLo and using the stretch (is that still a thing?) would be addition by subtraction.
Points in the league can be found much more easily than defense.

[ClarkeW]

Whether it is on the lowest level of competition or on NBA level. Doesn't matter.

Playing average defense is the the easiest part of the game because it is basically all about commitment and hustle.
You don't have to be talented, you don't have to be skilled, you just have to hustle and stay in front of your guy.

What is much harder is to become excellent on defense. Because it relies on truely reading the opponents movements in advance, having a physical advantage, studying the oppoennts, knowing their sweet spots, etc.

Wolves are not even close to even reaching that basic average level. Night in, night out. There's literally no commitment and hustle whatsoever from certain, almost always the same players. All that offensive skills don't mean a damn if your defense is a handing out layups and open 3's every other possession. There's no defensive mindset, no hustle and no commitment in this organization.

Until the day this finally changes, Wolves team is f*cked.

These types of games happen over the course of a season. Especially when there's two similar teams, these things can easily turn into a track meet. I would love to see us allowing less than 100 points in games we score 125+, but that's not necessarily realistic. Not even the 73-win Warriors did that on a nightly basis.

To the bolded, see the Brooklyn Nets. They aren't much better than us on defense yet they're tied for the best record in the East.

Everyone gushes about the New York Knicks, and that's fine. But with all of that defense, they still only average outscoring their opponents by 2 points per game. Does it really matter if you're outscoring teams 105-103 or 125-123?

And it'd be something if the team was claiming they're building a defensive juggernaut. But nobody has ever said that. This team will have to outscore its opponents. That's why they've accumulated such a diverse set of offensive talent in Towns, Russell, Edwards, Beasley, etc. I don't really want to take a step back on offense if it means a tiny step forward on defense. But if you guys would rather build your team full of Okogies and Rubios, go ahead.

2004 pistons. How many 20ppg scores did they have?
What was there avg margin of victory?
What were their offensive and defensive rankings?

0
6
16
2

That’s all need to know to win games in this league. Share the ball and play league avg offense but hustle your ass off, play solidly good to great defense and enjoy the victories.

Sadly this team is filled with guys who either don’t care to play defense or lack the mental ability to (or both).

A Towns trade for a solid defensive power forward who can score 15ppg would be addition by subtraction. Cutting DLo and using the stretch (is that still a thing?) would be addition by subtraction.
Points in the league can be found much more easily than defense.

I’m all for having a better defensive team, but that “all you need to know about winning in this league” example you just dropped is almost old enough to graduate high school. You might want to find a more recent one if you’re going to convince people it’s a good idea to trade our only star player to improve team defense. Just saying.

[Foye]

Whether it is on the lowest level of competition or on NBA level. Doesn't matter.

Playing average defense is the the easiest part of the game because it is basically all about commitment and hustle.
You don't have to be talented, you don't have to be skilled, you just have to hustle and stay in front of your guy.

What is much harder is to become excellent on defense. Because it relies on truely reading the opponents movements in advance, having a physical advantage, studying the oppoennts, knowing their sweet spots, etc.

Wolves are not even close to even reaching that basic average level. Night in, night out. There's literally no commitment and hustle whatsoever from certain, almost always the same players. All that offensive skills don't mean a damn if your defense is a handing out layups and open 3's every other possession. There's no defensive mindset, no hustle and no commitment in this organization.

Until the day this finally changes, Wolves team is f*cked.

These types of games happen over the course of a season. Especially when there's two similar teams, these things can easily turn into a track meet. I would love to see us allowing less than 100 points in games we score 125+, but that's not necessarily realistic. Not even the 73-win Warriors did that on a nightly basis.

To the bolded, see the Brooklyn Nets. They aren't much better than us on defense yet they're tied for the best record in the East.

Everyone gushes about the New York Knicks, and that's fine. But with all of that defense, they still only average outscoring their opponents by 2 points per game. Does it really matter if you're outscoring teams 105-103 or 125-123?

And it'd be something if the team was claiming they're building a defensive juggernaut. But nobody has ever said that. This team will have to outscore its opponents. That's why they've accumulated such a diverse set of offensive talent in Towns, Russell, Edwards, Beasley, etc. I don't really want to take a step back on offense if it means a tiny step forward on defense. But if you guys would rather build your team full of Okogies and Rubios, go ahead.

Nets can have two of their three top 15 nba players injured and they still have enough talent to beat the Wolves fairly easily. Talent-wise their roster is far and above anyone else in the league.
Not sure why you even bring this up as a comparison. The Wolves will never be in a position to accumulate so many superstars unless they draft three homeruns in a row...well aint even getting a pick this year.

Knicks roster is probably less talented than the Wolves roster. Yet, they greatly overachieve by putting in the work. Thats the blueprint what you have to do to be a respectable team in the league.
Wolves have been a respectable team just once since KG left in the mid-2000.

Gotta hold players accountable. „We are going to outscore the other team“ never works over the curse of a full season unless you have superior talent. Wolves dont have that.

Put any half decent defense minded C on the team and move Towns to PF. Thats an instant 10 wins a season. Yet after how many years into Towns career? Nobody aint ever tried that in the Wolves organization. Other than that...you dont even have to add new players. The current players just need to hustle and focus more on D. And those who will not accept that...need to be cut. No matter what name or salary.

[Klomp]

Whether it is on the lowest level of competition or on NBA level. Doesn't matter.

Playing average defense is the the easiest part of the game because it is basically all about commitment and hustle.
You don't have to be talented, you don't have to be skilled, you just have to hustle and stay in front of your guy.

What is much harder is to become excellent on defense. Because it relies on truely reading the opponents movements in advance, having a physical advantage, studying the oppoennts, knowing their sweet spots, etc.

Wolves are not even close to even reaching that basic average level. Night in, night out. There's literally no commitment and hustle whatsoever from certain, almost always the same players. All that offensive skills don't mean a damn if your defense is a handing out layups and open 3's every other possession. There's no defensive mindset, no hustle and no commitment in this organization.

Until the day this finally changes, Wolves team is f*cked.

These types of games happen over the course of a season. Especially when there's two similar teams, these things can easily turn into a track meet. I would love to see us allowing less than 100 points in games we score 125+, but that's not necessarily realistic. Not even the 73-win Warriors did that on a nightly basis.

To the bolded, see the Brooklyn Nets. They aren't much better than us on defense yet they're tied for the best record in the East.

Everyone gushes about the New York Knicks, and that's fine. But with all of that defense, they still only average outscoring their opponents by 2 points per game. Does it really matter if you're outscoring teams 105-103 or 125-123?

And it'd be something if the team was claiming they're building a defensive juggernaut. But nobody has ever said that. This team will have to outscore its opponents. That's why they've accumulated such a diverse set of offensive talent in Towns, Russell, Edwards, Beasley, etc. I don't really want to take a step back on offense if it means a tiny step forward on defense. But if you guys would rather build your team full of Okogies and Rubios, go ahead.

2004 pistons. How many 20ppg scores did they have?
What was there avg margin of victory?
What were their offensive and defensive rankings?

0
6
16
2

That’s all need to know to win games in this league. Share the ball and play league avg offense but hustle your ass off, play solidly good to great defense and enjoy the victories.

Sadly this team is filled with guys who either don’t care to play defense or lack the mental ability to (or both).

A Towns trade for a solid defensive power forward who can score 15ppg would be addition by subtraction. Cutting DLo and using the stretch (is that still a thing?) would be addition by subtraction.
Points in the league can be found much more easily than defense.

It's a very different league than it was in 2004. Detroit had a pace of 87.9. The highest pace that year was Denver at 93.3. The slowest pace right now is New York at 96.1. More possessions means more points.

Nets can have two of their three top 15 nba players injured and they still have enough talent to beat the Wolves fairly easily. Talent-wise their roster is far and above anyone else in the league.
Not sure why you even bring this up as a comparison. The Wolves will never be in a position to accumulate so many superstars unless they draft three homeruns in a row...well aint even getting a pick this year.

Fine, go with Denver if Brooklyn isn't realistic enough. Top 5 in offense, middle of the road in defense.

[m2002brian]

These types of games happen over the course of a season. Especially when there's two similar teams, these things can easily turn into a track meet. I would love to see us allowing less than 100 points in games we score 125+, but that's not necessarily realistic. Not even the 73-win Warriors did that on a nightly basis.

To the bolded, see the Brooklyn Nets. They aren't much better than us on defense yet they're tied for the best record in the East.

Everyone gushes about the New York Knicks, and that's fine. But with all of that defense, they still only average outscoring their opponents by 2 points per game. Does it really matter if you're outscoring teams 105-103 or 125-123?

And it'd be something if the team was claiming they're building a defensive juggernaut. But nobody has ever said that. This team will have to outscore its opponents. That's why they've accumulated such a diverse set of offensive talent in Towns, Russell, Edwards, Beasley, etc. I don't really want to take a step back on offense if it means a tiny step forward on defense. But if you guys would rather build your team full of Okogies and Rubios, go ahead.

2004 pistons. How many 20ppg scores did they have?
What was there avg margin of victory?
What were their offensive and defensive rankings?

0
6
16
2

That’s all need to know to win games in this league. Share the ball and play league avg offense but hustle your ass off, play solidly good to great defense and enjoy the victories.

Sadly this team is filled with guys who either don’t care to play defense or lack the mental ability to (or both).

A Towns trade for a solid defensive power forward who can score 15ppg would be addition by subtraction. Cutting DLo and using the stretch (is that still a thing?) would be addition by subtraction.
Points in the league can be found much more easily than defense.

It's a very different league than it was in 2004. Detroit had a pace of 87.9. The highest pace that year was Denver at 93.3. The slowest pace right now is New York at 96.1. More possessions means more points.

Nets can have two of their three top 15 nba players injured and they still have enough talent to beat the Wolves fairly easily. Talent-wise their roster is far and above anyone else in the league.
Not sure why you even bring this up as a comparison. The Wolves will never be in a position to accumulate so many superstars unless they draft three homeruns in a row...well aint even getting a pick this year.

Fine, go with Denver if Brooklyn isn't realistic enough. Top 5 in offense, middle of the road in defense.

Whoosh!

Right over your heads.

Pay no attention to pace.

The main point was....
AVG offense and top 5 defense is what brings W’s
Regardless of era. Regardless of pace. Losing (trading) towns for an average offensive PF and good to great defender would be a net positive. Like it or not, history is filled with examples of this being true.
Which is why I examples the 2004 Pistons. Rasheed Wallace < KG. But in the grand scheme of how the NBA works (guard dominant) Rasheed is exactly that type of AVG+ offense with great defense.

https://www.samford.edu/sports-analytics/fans/2019/Does-Defense-Actually-Win-NBA-Championships

[Foye]

These types of games happen over the course of a season. Especially when there's two similar teams, these things can easily turn into a track meet. I would love to see us allowing less than 100 points in games we score 125+, but that's not necessarily realistic. Not even the 73-win Warriors did that on a nightly basis.

To the bolded, see the Brooklyn Nets. They aren't much better than us on defense yet they're tied for the best record in the East.

Everyone gushes about the New York Knicks, and that's fine. But with all of that defense, they still only average outscoring their opponents by 2 points per game. Does it really matter if you're outscoring teams 105-103 or 125-123?

And it'd be something if the team was claiming they're building a defensive juggernaut. But nobody has ever said that. This team will have to outscore its opponents. That's why they've accumulated such a diverse set of offensive talent in Towns, Russell, Edwards, Beasley, etc. I don't really want to take a step back on offense if it means a tiny step forward on defense. But if you guys would rather build your team full of Okogies and Rubios, go ahead.

2004 pistons. How many 20ppg scores did they have?
What was there avg margin of victory?
What were their offensive and defensive rankings?

0
6
16
2

That’s all need to know to win games in this league. Share the ball and play league avg offense but hustle your ass off, play solidly good to great defense and enjoy the victories.

Sadly this team is filled with guys who either don’t care to play defense or lack the mental ability to (or both).

A Towns trade for a solid defensive power forward who can score 15ppg would be addition by subtraction. Cutting DLo and using the stretch (is that still a thing?) would be addition by subtraction.
Points in the league can be found much more easily than defense.

It's a very different league than it was in 2004. Detroit had a pace of 87.9. The highest pace that year was Denver at 93.3. The slowest pace right now is New York at 96.1. More possessions means more points.

Nets can have two of their three top 15 nba players injured and they still have enough talent to beat the Wolves fairly easily. Talent-wise their roster is far and above anyone else in the league.
Not sure why you even bring this up as a comparison. The Wolves will never be in a position to accumulate so many superstars unless they draft three homeruns in a row...well aint even getting a pick this year.

Fine, go with Denver if Brooklyn isn't realistic enough. Top 5 in offense, middle of the road in defense.

Denver is 10th in opponents ppg.
Wolves are 29th.
They are a respectable team on defense. Wolves are not.
Wolves would already be much improved if they were to get to Denver‘s level of defense.
Its easier if you have to score only 111 ppg to win rather than 120 on average like the Wolves need to.

[Klomp]

Denver is 10th in opponents ppg.
Wolves are 29th.
They are a respectable team on defense. Wolves are not.
Wolves would already be much improved if they were to get to Denver‘s level of defense.
Its easier if you have to score only 111 ppg to win rather than 120 on average like the Wolves need to.

Defensive rating accounts for pace, and has Denver 16th.

I've never said we are there, I'm saying that's what the franchise can be.