Ben Simmons Thread (READ FIRST POST)

[SO_MONEY]

I should clarify a few things

I am a Sixers fan and a Simmons fan and a KAT fan

If the Sixers want to move Simmons then nothing would give me greater pleasure in basketball than to see him play with KAT, ANT & D’lo

Forget about playoffs, that’s a nightmare for everyone and Nets level talent

The question is how do you get him because the Sixers need something in return

The Sixers will get something in return, but based on this post, probably not what you want or expect.

Simmons at the moment is a depressed asset with little interest across the NBA landscape. As it seems there might only be three interested teams SAC, SA and MN.

We know what these teams have and the chances of one team massively outbidding the others is kind of slim. But each of those teams can still offer nice packages, they are just unlikely to be Godfather offers that top tier talent demands. The offers are going to be more inline with a tier below that or so, something in the general ballpark of what Vucivic brought back, plus with sound negotiating you might eek out an additional modest asset.

A perfectly valid argument could be made that PHI should hold off, but the risks associated with such a move could depress further Simmons value, either on court or off court... because player have a ton of power, too much power really.

MN fans have been through this before it is not an envious position to be in, I can sympathize, but really it always turns out disappointing on some level.

[TwolvesFanRome]

Excuse me for the direct question: are there until now official trade offer by Rosas to Philly? Or some hypothesis in a 3 team trade? Or rumors via twitter or something else?

[jpatrick]

Excuse me for the direct question: are there until now official trade offer by Rosas to Philly? Or some hypothesis in a 3 team trade? Or rumors via twitter or something else?

Local and National media just reporting that MN is very interested in trading for Simmons. No real leaks of offers. Everything you see is either fan or media speculation.

[_AIJ_]

Hield and Haliburton, 2 1st and 1 2nd from Min to Philly
Beasley+Prince+Layman to Sac.
Ben Simmons to Min

Philly:
Haliburton
Seth Curry
Buddy Hield
Tobias Harris
Embiid

Kings:
Foxx
Beasley
Prince
Barnes
Holmes

Min:
Dlo
Edwards
McDaniels
Simmons
Towns

Just stop, please

[Klomp]

Something occurred to me and I figured I would ask it here to anyone in favor of a Simmons trade. Are the Wolves equal to or better than the 76ers without Simmons? I ask because they couldn’t win a title with Simmons, and if we are not as good or better how can we? Is the goal simply to be a playoff team, or is it to win titles? The 76ers want to move on from Simmons because after years of coaching and development they are realized Simmons is a guy who cannot help them win championships. I don’t see him fitting better here.

By George. I think you've got it!! I love the point.

Simmons can do great things for us too.

I now lean toward Simmons. Now,.... I'm not so sure. I'd be just fine going with what we have.

When you have Beverly, Beasley, Prince, Reid, Nowell, that can all come off the bench, That may help a team more than losing that depth for another "great" or good, player. Far to few consider how important that is to winning. It's like a security blanket. That depth is exciting and pretty awesome. Not to mention it will provide rest for those starters. How big is that by the end of the year?

What about the ability to move any of those guys in with the starters? We'd match very tough against any lineup.

It's a tough call.

Last year, Timberwolves not named Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards or D'Angelo Russell recorded a total of 9 double-doubles (5 point-rebound, 4 point-assist). Last year, Ben Simmons recorded 6 point-rebound double-doubles, 3 point-assist double-doubles and 3 triple-doubles in the regular season plus 2 point-rebound, 1 point-assist, 1 rebound-assist and 1 triple-double in the playoffs.

Depth is good, but high-level talent is what takes you places.

[Klomp]

Simmons kills the offense because you can just stick the center on Simmons and everything is ruined.

Watch on YouTube

[Merc_Porto]

If Simmons is the only guy that can't shoot on a team we would be fine.
Pairing Ben with KAT would be amazing, is day and night when you compared with Ben-Embiid.

[SO_MONEY]

Simmons kills the offense because you can just stick the center on Simmons and everything is ruined.

Watch on YouTube

Cory Brewer scored 51 points...

[Merc_Porto]

Simmons kills the offense because you can just stick the center on Simmons and everything is ruined.

Watch on YouTube

Cory Brewer scored 51 points...

Does Cory Brewer have this?

3× NBA All-Star (2019–2021)
All-NBA Third Team (2020)
2× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2020, 2021) - Finished 2nd this past season
NBA Rookie of the Year (2018)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2018)
NBA steals leader (2020)

[younggunsmn]

I'm starting to wonder how much of the perceived lack of interest across the league has to do with Morey's asking price.
He undoubtedly wants on big chip, even if he has to add additional value.
The question is will he eventually settle for several smaller chips, most of which will likely be lottery tickets, and if he does, would our offer be the best?
My dark horse in all of this is San Antonio because they have the cap space and their future picks would be attractive because they dont look to be very good. Also OKC with all those owed picks could trump anything we would put on the table.
Does adding SImmons to a KAT+Ant+Dlo core depress the value of our own future picks? Or does morey look at recent history and the loaded western conference and gamble on getting a lottery pick?
Is Rosas willing to pay the "buy it now" price or is he willing to gamble the Simmons window doesn't close after the season starts?

[karch34]

I'm starting to wonder how much of the perceived lack of interest across the league has to do with Morey's asking price.
He undoubtedly wants on big chip, even if he has to add additional value.
The question is will he eventually settle for several smaller chips, most of which will likely be lottery tickets, and if he does, would our offer be the best?
My dark horse in all of this is San Antonio because they have the cap space and their future picks would be attractive because they dont look to be very good. Also OKC with all those owed picks could trump anything we would put on the table.
Does adding SImmons to a KAT+Ant+Dlo core depress the value of our own future picks? Or does morey look at recent history and the loaded western conference and gamble on getting a lottery pick?
Is Rosas willing to pay the "buy it now" price or is he willing to gamble the Simmons window doesn't close after the season starts?

I think Morey really wanted to do a Simmons for Harden deal. Fits the win now timeframe. I think bad blood led Houston to ask for more than Philly wanted to give. I think he’s expecting a similar win now move that likely isn’t available. Rumor is he still wants Lillard (which seems less likely now) and that’s why he’s still throwing out a four first and 3 pick swaps type ask until it’s clear Lillard ain’t happening. So I don’t think the OKC and SA deals interest him now, but those options (if out there) might be what he settles for.

[winforlose]

To all the pro Simmons trade people, what is the expected return on investment? Losing Beasley is obviously going to cost you more points than Simmons scores. You are also severely limiting your options for several years with Simmons salary. How many more steals and stops do you expect to get with Simmons? Is it simply that you believe Simmons plus MCD turns us into a defensive powerhouse? I am just not seeing the value of a max contract as a fourth best player. This is the same argument when people say Wiggins is better with GSW core three plus Wiseman. Yes he performs better but he is clearly not worth the money. Especially on a team that won’t go 30 million over the tax line to buy wins.

[thinktank]

To all the pro Simmons trade people, what is the expected return on investment? Losing Beasley is obviously going to cost you more points than Simmons scores. You are also severely limiting your options for several years with Simmons salary. How many more steals and stops do you expect to get with Simmons? Is it simply that you believe Simmons plus MCD turns us into a defensive powerhouse? I am just not seeing the value of a max contract as a fourth best player. This is the same argument when people say Wiggins is better with GSW core three plus Wiseman. Yes he performs better but he is clearly not worth the money. Especially on a team that won’t go 30 million over the tax line to buy wins.

The Edwards and Simmons contracts are very complimentary.

Edwards makes it possible.

[thinktank]

I'm starting to wonder how much of the perceived lack of interest across the league has to do with Morey's asking price.
He undoubtedly wants on big chip, even if he has to add additional value.
The question is will he eventually settle for several smaller chips, most of which will likely be lottery tickets, and if he does, would our offer be the best?


My dark horse in all of this is San Antonio because they have the cap space and their future picks would be attractive because they dont look to be very good. Also OKC with all those owed picks could trump anything we would put on the table.
Does adding SImmons to a KAT+Ant+Dlo core depress the value of our own future picks? Or does morey look at recent history and the loaded western conference and gamble on getting a lottery pick?
Is Rosas willing to pay the "buy it now" price or is he willing to gamble the Simmons window doesn't close after the season starts?

Some great questions in there.

I don’t think Morey will take a bunch of picks.

I’m beginning to think that all Simmons has to do is say “Minnesota”, and then a tree team deal is worked out.

[SO_MONEY]

I'm starting to wonder how much of the perceived lack of interest across the league has to do with Morey's asking price.
He undoubtedly wants on big chip, even if he has to add additional value.
The question is will he eventually settle for several smaller chips, most of which will likely be lottery tickets, and if he does, would our offer be the best?
My dark horse in all of this is San Antonio because they have the cap space and their future picks would be attractive because they dont look to be very good. Also OKC with all those owed picks could trump anything we would put on the table.
Does adding SImmons to a KAT+Ant+Dlo core depress the value of our own future picks? Or does morey look at recent history and the loaded western conference and gamble on getting a lottery pick?
Is Rosas willing to pay the "buy it now" price or is he willing to gamble the Simmons window doesn't close after the season starts?

I think the rumors of high asks are overstated. I think it is more a byproduct of teams or Klutch leveraging Morey by making him look incompetent.

I don't think OKC has any interest.

[Merc_Porto]

To all the pro Simmons trade people, what is the expected return on investment? Losing Beasley is obviously going to cost you more points than Simmons scores. You are also severely limiting your options for several years with Simmons salary. How many more steals and stops do you expect to get with Simmons? Is it simply that you believe Simmons plus MCD turns us into a defensive powerhouse? I am just not seeing the value of a max contract as a fourth best player. This is the same argument when people say Wiggins is better with GSW core three plus Wiseman. Yes he performs better but he is clearly not worth the money. Especially on a team that won’t go 30 million over the tax line to buy wins.

First of all, to get Simmons you're not going to lose only Beasley. McDaniels and maybe Dlo (doubt they want him) has to go too.
Second, how you are limiting your options? With Ben you have your big-3 right there. All of them with 25yo or less.
2 of them are under contract for another 4 years and the other for more 3 years. You built around those 3.

Yes, with Ben, Pat you could turn into a defensive powerhouse.
2 of the best defenders in the league right there.

Is very simple IMO...
Ben - Ant - KAT »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»» Dlo - Kat - Ant - McDaniels - Beasley

It blows my mind how Ben is being so underrated.
4th star? Seriously? fourth best player?

[winforlose]

To all the pro Simmons trade people, what is the expected return on investment? Losing Beasley is obviously going to cost you more points than Simmons scores. You are also severely limiting your options for several years with Simmons salary. How many more steals and stops do you expect to get with Simmons? Is it simply that you believe Simmons plus MCD turns us into a defensive powerhouse? I am just not seeing the value of a max contract as a fourth best player. This is the same argument when people say Wiggins is better with GSW core three plus Wiseman. Yes he performs better but he is clearly not worth the money. Especially on a team that won’t go 30 million over the tax line to buy wins.

First of all, to get Simmons you're not going to lose only Beasley. McDaniels and maybe Dlo (doubt they want him) has to go too.
Second, how you are limiting your options? With Ben you have your big-3 right there. All of them with 25yo or less.
2 of them are under contract for another 4 years and the other for more 3 years. You built around those 3.

Yes, with Ben, Pat you could turn into a defensive powerhouse.
2 of the best defenders in the league right there.

Is very simple IMO...
Ben - Ant - KAT »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»» Dlo - Kat - Ant - McDaniels - Beasley

It blows my mind how Ben is being so underrated.
4th star? Seriously? fourth best player?

When a guy cannot consistently free throw shoot, jump shoot, or 3 point shoot it limits your offense. Dlo, Ant, KAT are all better than Simmons on offense. Simmons is your fourth option if not your fifth. Simmons can only score at the rim. This is not a dispute, it is a fact. To properly use Simmons use must take the ball out of Ant and KAT’s hands. It is simply not an ideal fit. The argument in favor of worsening our offense is that you gain a lot on defense. I just don’t see how the equation balances, and I would simply not give away MCD to get Simmons as I believe MCD will become a better defender than Simmons give time.

[SO_MONEY]

To all the pro Simmons trade people, what is the expected return on investment? Losing Beasley is obviously going to cost you more points than Simmons scores. You are also severely limiting your options for several years with Simmons salary. How many more steals and stops do you expect to get with Simmons? Is it simply that you believe Simmons plus MCD turns us into a defensive powerhouse? I am just not seeing the value of a max contract as a fourth best player. This is the same argument when people say Wiggins is better with GSW core three plus Wiseman. Yes he performs better but he is clearly not worth the money. Especially on a team that won’t go 30 million over the tax line to buy wins.

First of all, to get Simmons you're not going to lose only Beasley. McDaniels and maybe Dlo (doubt they want him) has to go too.
Second, how you are limiting your options? With Ben you have your big-3 right there. All of them with 25yo or less.
2 of them are under contract for another 4 years and the other for more 3 years. You built around those 3.

Yes, with Ben, Pat you could turn into a defensive powerhouse.
2 of the best defenders in the league right there.

Is very simple IMO...
Ben - Ant - KAT »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»» Dlo - Kat - Ant - McDaniels - Beasley

It blows my mind how Ben is being so underrated.
4th star? Seriously? fourth best player?

He would be the 4th or 5th option on this team. Should he take more shots than any of Kat, DLo, Ant? I'll cover you. The answer is no.

And you don't give that much up for Simmons.

[Merc_Porto]

To all the pro Simmons trade people, what is the expected return on investment? Losing Beasley is obviously going to cost you more points than Simmons scores. You are also severely limiting your options for several years with Simmons salary. How many more steals and stops do you expect to get with Simmons? Is it simply that you believe Simmons plus MCD turns us into a defensive powerhouse? I am just not seeing the value of a max contract as a fourth best player. This is the same argument when people say Wiggins is better with GSW core three plus Wiseman. Yes he performs better but he is clearly not worth the money. Especially on a team that won’t go 30 million over the tax line to buy wins.

First of all, to get Simmons you're not going to lose only Beasley. McDaniels and maybe Dlo (doubt they want him) has to go too.
Second, how you are limiting your options? With Ben you have your big-3 right there. All of them with 25yo or less.
2 of them are under contract for another 4 years and the other for more 3 years. You built around those 3.

Yes, with Ben, Pat you could turn into a defensive powerhouse.
2 of the best defenders in the league right there.

Is very simple IMO...
Ben - Ant - KAT »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»» Dlo - Kat - Ant - McDaniels - Beasley

It blows my mind how Ben is being so underrated.
4th star? Seriously? fourth best player?

When a guy cannot consistently free throw shoot, jump shoot, or 3 point shoot it limits your offense. Dlo, Ant, KAT are all better than Simmons on offense. Simmons is your fourth option if not your fifth. Simmons can only score at the rim. This is not a dispute, it is a fact. To properly use Simmons use must take the ball out of Ant and KAT’s hands. It is simply not an ideal fit. The argument in favor of worsening our offense is that you gain a lot on defense. I just don’t see how the equation balances, and I would simply not give away MCD to get Simmons as I believe MCD will become a better defender than Simmons give time.

You're saying that with time McDaniels could be the best defensive player in the league?
Because that is what Ben is already...

So, the guy cant shoot... Ok, but he's elite at everything else, right?

The idea that Dlo, Ant and KAT are better offensive players than Ben is false. They are better shooters, not better offense players (well, maybe KAT is, and Ant could be) but what about playmaking? what about post offense? And of course, what about defense?
Where you will find those things in Dlo and/or Beasley to consider Ben the 4th best player? GEEEEEZ
The 4th best player

[Klomp]

To all the pro Simmons trade people, what is the expected return on investment? Losing Beasley is obviously going to cost you more points than Simmons scores. You are also severely limiting your options for several years with Simmons salary. How many more steals and stops do you expect to get with Simmons? Is it simply that you believe Simmons plus MCD turns us into a defensive powerhouse? I am just not seeing the value of a max contract as a fourth best player. This is the same argument when people say Wiggins is better with GSW core three plus Wiseman. Yes he performs better but he is clearly not worth the money. Especially on a team that won’t go 30 million over the tax line to buy wins.

Salaries for Top 4 options:
Warriors: $139,367,788
Nets: $139,015,583
Bucks: $120,578,558
Clippers: $112,442,707
Towns / Edwards / Russell / Simmons: $104,913,516

Why are you only looking at points scored for Beasley? Is he guaranteed to average 20 ppg if here again but as a 4th option himself? Or is it more realistic that he ends up in the 16-18 ppg range (which is right around Simmons' career average)? Then what about the difference of an extra 4 rebounds and 5 assists that Simmons provides over Beasley? Then what about the defensive impact?