Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

10/1 Wolves-76ers trade

Beverly + Beasley + Layman + McDaniels + picks

for

Simmons + Milton

76ers wait to get Beverly who (1) gives them a replacement Point Guard that has played for Rivers before, and (2) gives them a defender to replace Simmons on that end.

Beasley gives them added scoring/shooting to stretch the floor for Embiid.

Layman + McDaniels + Picks gives them assets to trade for another player that can help them win now. Some ideas on that front.

1. Dillon Brooks/Kyle Anderson? (Memphis would surely like to move one of these guys, but not sure either gets the 76ers too excited)

2. Jerami Grant? (Detroit goes full rebuild/tank next year) (Philadelphia adds more outgoing salary)

3. Marcus Morris? (Clippers move an aging player to help replenish some assets)

4. Bodanovic? (Atlanta cleans up cap problems) (Philadelphia adds more outgoing salary)

Here's another alternative:

Simmons, Curry

for

Beverly, Beasley, Prince + picks.

Salary is almost perfect going in and out. I would think 76ers would have little use for Curry with Simmons gone and Beasley being an upgrade, so makes sense to expand the deal to include him.

I'd do that in a heartbeat. We'd have pretty weak depth, but meh.

Really if you can start dlo ant Simmons and kat..finch can work his rotations where 1 or 2 of those 4 will always be on the court.

[SO_MONEY]

Just more rampant speculation, i get it.

It is an educated guess.

Maybe don't try and minimize my speculation, because that goes both ways. You are speculating that reporting is accurate and without agenda.

Your post was unnecessary.

I didn’t actually state a position contrary to yours.

"Just more rampant speculation"

Says all it needs to.

And that is ignoring all other context.

You are marginalizing speculation, but only the speculation you choose...one can then infer you speculate something else, or you wouldn't have made the post. Please just stop. Stop digging a hole and rationalizing your post. I called you out, I made the point your post was unnecessary, because it clearly was. Move on. We all need to do better here. We are driving the mods nuts! Okay? Thanks in advance.

[SO_MONEY]

Gimme some Charles Bassey rights and I'll be more willing to throw in a McDaniels

Read on Twitter

Gross.

Not. A. Fan.

[Krapinsky]

It is an educated guess.

Maybe don't try and minimize my speculation, because that goes both ways. You are speculating that reporting is accurate and without agenda.

Your post was unnecessary.

I didn’t actually state a position contrary to yours.

"Just more rampant speculation"

Says all it needs to.

And that is ignoring all other context.

You are marginalizing speculation, but only the speculation you choose...one can then infer you speculate something else, or you wouldn't have made the post. Please just stop. Stop digging a hole and rationalizing your post. I called you out, I made the point your post was unnecessary, because it clearly was. Move on. We all need to do better here. We are driving the mods nuts! Okay? Thanks in advance.

Sigh.

I simply asked a question for clarification, but okay dude I guess “you got me.” In re-reading I do find it strange for you to comment that you don’t buy reports on one hand but then say ‘everything has changed’ on the other based on (I assume since you declined to extrapolate) nothing more than fervent speculation from the same types of talking heads. It just seems you pick and choose whatever fits your narrative.

Regardless, I catch your drift and I’ll try to stray away from commenting on your Simmons’ posts in the future.

[SO_MONEY]

I didn’t actually state a position contrary to yours.

"Just more rampant speculation"

Says all it needs to.

And that is ignoring all other context.

You are marginalizing speculation, but only the speculation you choose...one can then infer you speculate something else, or you wouldn't have made the post. Please just stop. Stop digging a hole and rationalizing your post. I called you out, I made the point your post was unnecessary, because it clearly was. Move on. We all need to do better here. We are driving the mods nuts! Okay? Thanks in advance.

Sigh.

I simply asked a question for clarification, but okay dude I guess “you got me.” In re-reading I do find it strange for you to comment that you don’t buy reports on one hand but then say ‘everything has changed’ on the other based on (I assume since you declined to extrapolate) nothing more than fervent speculation from the same types of talking heads. It just seems you pick and choose whatever fits your narrative.

Regardless, I catch your drift and I’ll try to stray away from commenting on your Simmons’ posts in the future.

You don't need to stay away from my posts, just don't insult my intelligence. Don't make meaningless posts that only have the aim to insult posters you disagree with.

And everything has changed. But since you need me spell it out...offers at the time of the rumor and offers right now might have changed, the offers Philadelphia might accept might have changed, because things have changed, that change, the FACT Simmons went public with his ultimatum. That is pretty obvious, right? Self-explanatory even? Kind of a big change...and you, what.. don't pick up on this? 'Everything seems the same'...it isn't. Sorry, but it isn't. That isn't speculating, Those are the breaks. I was trying to get you to think it through, that there is a before and after and relevant causality.

[Note30]

I don't think the board was ever this aggressive. Feel like it's been mostly the same groups of people here and there for years.

Saw a Ingram-DLo-Simmons trade. It was horrible but Ingram and Simmons are they actually similar in value?

[Dalvin]

Come to think of it, I haven't seen jedzz post in a long time. Hope Jedzz is ok.

[Klomp]

Come to think of it, I haven't seen jedzz post in a long time. Hope Jedzz is ok.

There's a reason for that. And some seem to be on pace to join him.

[shrink]

The other issue at play in these high MIN poster offers is the idea that multiple other teams are offering high prices. Some people are so scared about getting outbid for Simmons that they’ll sell the farm, and mortgage the next farm too.

Why are these people so sure that there are these high offers out there for him? We don’t know much of anything since Morey heard Simmons refuses to play, and then Dame is also staying put. Do we have any evidence what any of these other offers are?

Simmons does not plan to play another game in PHI. Yes, Morey can just hold onto him, for four years if he wants. But he also wants the Sixers to compete, and if he doesn’t trade him for something, he’s put a $32 mil hole in his team’s production. If PHI is 8-10 going into December, how happy are PHI fans going to be? How happy will Embiid be?

I put out the question of what teams and offers from them exist in response to these really weird higher offers. No one would answer...

I think their offers are more a reflection of their personal perception of Simmons instead of the market.

Sexton, Rubio, and Osman plus picks could be a potential packages but I dont know if the Cavs would offer it, esp since they are big heavy.

It would be pretty equivalent of our package of Beasley, Bev/Prince, McDaniels plus picks.

San Antonio could offer Murray, Young, Vessell plus picks

Pretty similar to our package.

Thats two teams that we potentially maybe competing with.

You could be right, but the problem we face is that no one has published any direct information on offers and we’re not in the rooms.

- People that think Simmons is very valuable are going to guess that other teams’ offers has lots of value, so MIN has to offer even more value to beat it.

- People that think Simmons isn’t so valuable are going to guess that other teams’ offers don’t have lots of value, so MIN doesn’t have to offer as much to beat them.

The only info we have is that on July 2, IND offered Malcolm Brogdan and a protected 1st. Morey rejected that, and from many reports, requested huge returns from multiple teams. Things have changed since July 2 for Morey, which should lower that price on September 14. First, ownership and coaches flew to LA to try to get Simmons to come back. He refused, and plans to never play another game for PHI,even if not traded (Windhorst). Also, Dame Lillard has recommitted to POR, so Morey’s superstar return offer is gone, if it ever existed in the first place (Windhorst doubts POR would even trade McCollum for Simmons because of his bad fit).

Would Morey take the Brogdan and a protected 1st offer now? We don’t know, but personally, I do not think offers with Beasley, McDaniels, and picks and swaps for the next five years are reasonable compared to IND’s (admittedly “failed”) offer.

[KGdaBom]

I put out the question of what teams and offers from them exist in response to these really weird higher offers. No one would answer...

I think their offers are more a reflection of their personal perception of Simmons instead of the market.

Sexton, Rubio, and Osman plus picks could be a potential packages but I dont know if the Cavs would offer it, esp since they are big heavy.

It would be pretty equivalent of our package of Beasley, Bev/Prince, McDaniels plus picks.

San Antonio could offer Murray, Young, Vessell plus picks

Pretty similar to our package.

Thats two teams that we potentially maybe competing with.

You could be right, but the problem we face is that no one has published any direct information on offers and we’re not in the rooms.

- People that think Simmons is very valuable are going to guess that other teams’ offers has lots of value, so MIN has to offer even more value to beat it.

- People that think Simmons isn’t so valuable are going to guess that other teams’ offers don’t have lots of value, so MIN doesn’t have to offer as much to beat them.

The only info we have is that on July 2, IND offered Malcolm Brogdan and a protected 1st. Morey rejected that, and from many reports, requested huge returns from multiple teams. Things have changed since July 2 for Morey, which should lower that price on September 14. First, ownership and coaches flew to LA to try to get Simmons to come back. He refused, and plans to never play another game for PHI,even if not traded (Windhorst). Also, Dame Lillard has recommitted to POR, so Morey’s superstar return offer is gone, if it ever existed in the first place (Windhorst doubts POR would even trade McCollum for Simmons because of his bad fit).

Would Morey take the Brogdan and a protected 1st offer now? We don’t know, but personally, I do not think offers with Beasley, McDaniels, and picks and swaps for the next five years are reasonable compared to IND’s (admittedly “failed”) offer.

You're referring to the Brogdon offer as if it's a fact. I thought there was no confirmation of it. Do you have confirmation of that rumored offer?

[Krapinsky]

Sexton, Rubio, and Osman plus picks could be a potential packages but I dont know if the Cavs would offer it, esp since they are big heavy.

It would be pretty equivalent of our package of Beasley, Bev/Prince, McDaniels plus picks.

San Antonio could offer Murray, Young, Vessell plus picks

Pretty similar to our package.

Thats two teams that we potentially maybe competing with.

You could be right, but the problem we face is that no one has published any direct information on offers and we’re not in the rooms.

- People that think Simmons is very valuable are going to guess that other teams’ offers has lots of value, so MIN has to offer even more value to beat it.

- People that think Simmons isn’t so valuable are going to guess that other teams’ offers don’t have lots of value, so MIN doesn’t have to offer as much to beat them.

The only info we have is that on July 2, IND offered Malcolm Brogdan and a protected 1st. Morey rejected that, and from many reports, requested huge returns from multiple teams. Things have changed since July 2 for Morey, which should lower that price on September 14. First, ownership and coaches flew to LA to try to get Simmons to come back. He refused, and plans to never play another game for PHI,even if not traded (Windhorst). Also, Dame Lillard has recommitted to POR, so Morey’s superstar return offer is gone, if it ever existed in the first place (Windhorst doubts POR would even trade McCollum for Simmons because of his bad fit).

Would Morey take the Brogdan and a protected 1st offer now? We don’t know, but personally, I do not think offers with Beasley, McDaniels, and picks and swaps for the next five years are reasonable compared to IND’s (admittedly “failed”) offer.

You're referring to the Brogdon offer as if it's a fact. I thought there was no confirmation of it. Do you have confirmation of that rumored offer?

Outside of someone from either front office confirming it, I suppose you can't call it a fact. But as far as 'reports' go, I feel like this is one of the few reports (maybe the only?) that was reported as being a fact.

Read on Twitter

[Krapinsky]

Here's a summary of other 'reported' offers from Philadelphia for a Simmons trade around draft time:

"The Sixers asked for Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, the Nos. 7 and 14 picks in tonight’s NBA draft along with two future first-rounders in exchange for Ben Simmons, according to multiple sources. The Warriors quickly turned down the offer.

This comes after a source confirmed The Ringer report that the Sixers asked the San Antonio Spurs for four first-round picks, three first-round pick swaps, and a young player in exchange for Simmons.

According to the Action Network, the Toronto Raptors rejected the Sixers’ asking price of Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the fourth pick in tonight’s draft for a package that included Simmons."

https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/76ers-ben-simmons-trade-offer-warriors-nba-draft-20210729.html

Those three were reported as being Philadelphia's asking price. The only reported offer to Philadelphia I've seen in the Brogdon + 1st offer.

[jpatrick]

The buzz amongst the National media seems to be growing louder that Morey is just going to keep Simmons into the season, holdout or not. I don’t know if this is just Morey’s posturing to get best and final offers or not. I sense it is not.

I just don’t get it. If he wants an star in return. I don’t see a one for one trade out there unless the Kings trade Fox (which I think both teams should do). So, his best avenue is to trade him for currency that he can flip for a star (picks and young players). But what do I know.

[shrink]

Here's a summary of other 'reported' offers from Philadelphia for a Simmons trade around draft time:

"The Sixers asked for Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, the Nos. 7 and 14 picks in tonight’s NBA draft along with two future first-rounders in exchange for Ben Simmons, according to multiple sources. The Warriors quickly turned down the offer.

This comes after a source confirmed The Ringer report that the Sixers asked the San Antonio Spurs for four first-round picks, three first-round pick swaps, and a young player in exchange for Simmons.

According to the Action Network, the Toronto Raptors rejected the Sixers’ asking price of Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the fourth pick in tonight’s draft for a package that included Simmons."

https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/76ers-ben-simmons-trade-offer-warriors-nba-draft-20210729.html

Those three were reported as being Philadelphia's asking price. The only reported offer to Philadelphia I've seen in the Brogdon + 1st offer.

Good summary. I think there might be 1-2 more reported ridiculous offers that Morey made. People that don’t want to believe them say they are false reporting, or Klutch getting reporters to promote Ben’s agenda, but these come from multiple local reporters with varying degrees of credentials, plus this is what all the national reporters are saying. It’s hard to not believe all this corroborating evidence. Morey was asking for the moon, and some owners came away with the impression that by setting the price so high, Morey didn’t really want to trade him.

At that point, I don’t blame him. Morey thought he had a chance at Lillard, and if he was going to make a trade now and forego that chance, he wanted more value than what Lillard was worth. He also felt he had a trump card with Simmons four year deal.

Since then though, both have taken a beating. Lillard publicly said he was staying in PHI (edit: POR - shrunk that one up again!), and Simmons looks fully prepared to sit out. I can’t imagine Morey still expects a Lillard-level value package.

[KGdaBom]

Here's a summary of other 'reported' offers from Philadelphia for a Simmons trade around draft time:

"The Sixers asked for Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, the Nos. 7 and 14 picks in tonight’s NBA draft along with two future first-rounders in exchange for Ben Simmons, according to multiple sources. The Warriors quickly turned down the offer.

This comes after a source confirmed The Ringer report that the Sixers asked the San Antonio Spurs for four first-round picks, three first-round pick swaps, and a young player in exchange for Simmons.

According to the Action Network, the Toronto Raptors rejected the Sixers’ asking price of Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the fourth pick in tonight’s draft for a package that included Simmons."

https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/76ers-ben-simmons-trade-offer-warriors-nba-draft-20210729.html

Those three were reported as being Philadelphia's asking price. The only reported offer to Philadelphia I've seen in the Brogdon + 1st offer.

Good summary. I think there might be 1-2 more reported ridiculous offers that Morey made. People that don’t want to believe them say they are false reporting, or Klutch getting reporters to promote Ben’s agenda, but these come from multiple local reporters with varying degrees of credentials, plus this is what all the national reporters are saying. It’s hard to not believe all this corroborating evidence. Morey was asking for the moon, and some owners came away with the impression that by setting the price so high, Morey didn’t really want to trade him.

At that point, I don’t blame him. Morey thought he had a chance at Lillard, and if he was going to make a trade now and forego that chance, he wanted more value than what Lillard was worth. He also felt he had a trump card with Simmons four year deal.

Since then though, both have taken a beating. Lillard publicly said he was staying in PHI, and Simmons looks fully prepared to sit out. I can’t imagine Morey still expects a Lillard-level value package.

Did he visit Ben in Philly and liked it so much he decided he ain't going back to Portland????
Yeah I'm being that guy.

[SO_MONEY]

I put out the question of what teams and offers from them exist in response to these really weird higher offers. No one would answer...

I think their offers are more a reflection of their personal perception of Simmons instead of the market.

Sexton, Rubio, and Osman plus picks could be a potential packages but I dont know if the Cavs would offer it, esp since they are big heavy.

It would be pretty equivalent of our package of Beasley, Bev/Prince, McDaniels plus picks.

San Antonio could offer Murray, Young, Vessell plus picks

Pretty similar to our package.

Thats two teams that we potentially maybe competing with.

You could be right, but the problem we face is that no one has published any direct information on offers and we’re not in the rooms.

- People that think Simmons is very valuable are going to guess that other teams’ offers has lots of value, so MIN has to offer even more value to beat it.

- People that think Simmons isn’t so valuable are going to guess that other teams’ offers don’t have lots of value, so MIN doesn’t have to offer as much to beat them.

The only info we have is that on July 2, IND offered Malcolm Brogdan and a protected 1st. Morey rejected that, and from many reports, requested huge returns from multiple teams. Things have changed since July 2 for Morey, which should lower that price on September 14. First, ownership and coaches flew to LA to try to get Simmons to come back. He refused, and plans to never play another game for PHI,even if not traded (Windhorst). Also, Dame Lillard has recommitted to POR, so Morey’s superstar return offer is gone, if it ever existed in the first place (Windhorst doubts POR would even trade McCollum for Simmons because of his bad fit).

Would Morey take the Brogdan and a protected 1st offer now? We don’t know, but personally, I do not think offers with Beasley, McDaniels, and picks and swaps for the next five years are reasonable compared to IND’s (admittedly “failed”) offer.

Personally I don't buy for one second IND actually offered Brogdon and a 1st for Morey to have turned it down. I think IND was used as a stalking horse with Philadelphia talking through the media to set value.

I also don't buy that Morey had all these crazy asks either. I think that was GMs and agents (retaliation) trying to pressure Morey by making him look nuts and push the narrative that he was mismanaging the situation.

I think this is just as likely as anything else.

Generally you are really good at interpreting the subterfuge, my point is you can't take the Brogdon and a 1st package as gospel.

[Krapinsky]

One would think that if Brogdon report was false, Indiana would have come out vehemently denying it, but that didn't happen.

[Klomp]

Now hear me out on this....

While he's not really a star today, he was considered one at one time. The contract seems way high, but that was also the narrative around another older PG just a couple years ago, who just took his team to the NBA Finals.

Could PHI be placated by John Wall as its new PG, as part of a three-way sending Simmons to Minnesota?

Read on Twitter

[Krapinsky]

Klomp - hilarious. lol.

[IceManBK1]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264080/John-Wall-Rockets-To-Work-Together-On-Trade

There is our 3rd team. And there's connections b/w Morey, Rockets and Rosa's. They just need to help other out.