The official fire Chris Finch thread

[thinktank]

He is leaving anyway. Probably sabotaged us as part of the deal to get his new job. That’s why he pushed it back a year and made such unbelievably bad moves.

My guess is Taylor didn’t want to pay tax and Connelly is basically covering for him.

The whole point of Taylor staying in power is to pay the tax and enjoy a winner. What sense does is make to keep the team, trade KAT ridiculously below his value, sign bad players who are not rotation worthy, trade even more of our future for a project (a move we needed to make because we didn’t trade Kyle for Tyus last season when we had the ****ing chance,) and now pay over 100 million (probably more,) in tax for a team that even if it makes the playoffs (via the play in,) is looking like an easy out. This take makes more sense from the prospective of new management if TC thinks they win and want to dump salary.

He’s losing the team. He hosed the deal (sold too soon) and now the fans pay.

[winforlose]

My guess is Taylor didn’t want to pay tax and Connelly is basically covering for him.

The whole point of Taylor staying in power is to pay the tax and enjoy a winner. What sense does is make to keep the team, trade KAT ridiculously below his value, sign bad players who are not rotation worthy, trade even more of our future for a project (a move we needed to make because we didn’t trade Kyle for Tyus last season when we had the ****ing chance,) and now pay over 100 million (probably more,) in tax for a team that even if it makes the playoffs (via the play in,) is looking like an easy out. This take makes more sense from the prospective of new management if TC thinks they win and want to dump salary.

He’s losing the team. He hosed the deal (sold too soon) and now the fans pay.

Again, why come back and fight the transfer/sale only to sabotage. The sabotage loses value. Meanwhile he further drags his own legacy and creates legit damages to be sued over by Lore/Arod. I think blaming this on Taylor is a lazy attempt to protect TC who valued DDV and Randle too highly, (especially DDV,) and whose entire career is basically came down to getting lucky on Joker as a 2nd round pick (a guy he passed on in the first round.) Beyond that his picks are hit and miss, his contract and trades are hit and miss, and he never builds a contender without MVP Joker.

[thinktank]

The whole point of Taylor staying in power is to pay the tax and enjoy a winner. What sense does is make to keep the team, trade KAT ridiculously below his value, sign bad players who are not rotation worthy, trade even more of our future for a project (a move we needed to make because we didn’t trade Kyle for Tyus last season when we had the ****ing chance,) and now pay over 100 million (probably more,) in tax for a team that even if it makes the playoffs (via the play in,) is looking like an easy out. This take makes more sense from the prospective of new management if TC thinks they win and want to dump salary.

He’s losing the team. He hosed the deal (sold too soon) and now the fans pay.

Again, why come back and fight the transfer/sale only to sabotage. The sabotage loses value. Meanwhile he further drags his own legacy and creates legit damages to be sued over by Lore/Arod. I think blaming this on Taylor is a lazy attempt to protect TC who valued DDV and Randle too highly, (especially DDV,) and whose entire career is basically came down to getting lucky on Joker as a 2nd round pick (a guy he passed on in the first round.) Beyond that his picks are hit and miss, his contract and trades are hit and miss, and he never builds a contender without MVP Joker.

Taylor doesn’t think logically. Worst owner in pro sports gonna do worst owner in pro sports things.

[winforlose]

He’s losing the team. He hosed the deal (sold too soon) and now the fans pay.

Again, why come back and fight the transfer/sale only to sabotage. The sabotage loses value. Meanwhile he further drags his own legacy and creates legit damages to be sued over by Lore/Arod. I think blaming this on Taylor is a lazy attempt to protect TC who valued DDV and Randle too highly, (especially DDV,) and whose entire career is basically came down to getting lucky on Joker as a 2nd round pick (a guy he passed on in the first round.) Beyond that his picks are hit and miss, his contract and trades are hit and miss, and he never builds a contender without MVP Joker.

Taylor doesn’t think logically. Worst owner in pro sports gonna do worst owner in pro sports things.

So the most logical explanation is not that the GM made a decision, but that a guy fighting for ownership on the premise that the other guys don’t have the money to spend the tax is trying to avoid the tax. Dude do me a favor and stay from Q anon, or anyone trying to sell you water from the fountain of life, or anyone trying to convince you that there is a pedophila ring in a pizzeria basement.

[Loaf_of_bread]

How do we not fire Finch at this point? If we don’t, then just fire TC, or both.

Sample size is too large.

[winforlose]

How do we not fire Finch at this point? If we don’t, then just fire TC, or both.

Sample size is too large.

When we fired Ryan, we did so to hire Finch. I don’t think firing him now is enough. You also gotta fire Micah Nori. You need a new HC and deputy HC installed by the ASB, and then you let the new HC decide who else to broom.

[Loaf_of_bread]

How do we not fire Finch at this point? If we don’t, then just fire TC, or both.

Sample size is too large.

When we fired Ryan, we did so to hire Finch. I don’t think firing him now is enough. You also gotta fire Micah Nori. You need a new HC and deputy HC installed by the ASB, and then you let the new HC decide who else to broom.

Of course, nori gone as well.

[zimpy27]

Hire Vogel?

He somehow made the Suns look better with a worse roster. He'd build a top 3 defense with Minnesota's pieces.

[BlacJacMac]

Fire Connelly first.

The KAT deal was atrocious.

He is leaving anyway. Probably sabotaged us as part of the deal to get his new job. That’s why he pushed it back a year and made such unbelievably bad moves.

My guess is Taylor didn’t want to pay tax and Connelly is basically covering for him.

You mean down the road?

Because we still have the 2nd highest payroll in the league. We're going to pay A LOT of tax for this team.

[thinktank]

Again, why come back and fight the transfer/sale only to sabotage. The sabotage loses value. Meanwhile he further drags his own legacy and creates legit damages to be sued over by Lore/Arod. I think blaming this on Taylor is a lazy attempt to protect TC who valued DDV and Randle too highly, (especially DDV,) and whose entire career is basically came down to getting lucky on Joker as a 2nd round pick (a guy he passed on in the first round.) Beyond that his picks are hit and miss, his contract and trades are hit and miss, and he never builds a contender without MVP Joker.

Taylor doesn’t think logically. Worst owner in pro sports gonna do worst owner in pro sports things.

So the most logical explanation is not that the GM made a decision, but that a guy fighting for ownership on the premise that the other guys don’t have the money to spend the tax is trying to avoid the tax. Dude do me a favor and stay from Q anon, or anyone trying to sell you water from the fountain of life, or anyone trying to convince you that there is a pedophila ring in a pizzeria basement.

LOL. There’s no conspiracy—Taylor is a quixotic moron. I can’t wait for the ownership thing to get settled so we can hear the backstory.

[Loaf_of_bread]

Finch needs some accountability for ant's antics and fines. Ant is our supposed star/leader, yet carries himself as a clown. Finch already messed up supporting ant earlier in the season...and now he cannot control his immaturity.

A good coach would have stopped his antics by now.

[shrink]

Finch needs some accountability for ant's antics and fines. Ant is our supposed star/leader, yet carries himself as a clown. Finch already messed up supporting ant earlier in the season...and now he cannot control his immaturity.

A good coach would have stopped his antics by now.

How do you think an NBA coach can do that?

[Loaf_of_bread]

Finch needs some accountability for ant's antics and fines. Ant is our supposed star/leader, yet carries himself as a clown. Finch already messed up supporting ant earlier in the season...and now he cannot control his immaturity.

A good coach would have stopped his antics by now.

How do you think an NBA coach can do that?

Well first of all, ANTs antics are a bad look on the organization as a whole. As well as a bad look amongst his teammates.

Our future is dependent on ANT. Likelihood of winning a championship with your best player being immature is none. ANT HAS to lead.

There are ways Finch can send this message... unfortunately he isn't capable.

It's not like "oh, let's sit down, and have a heart to heart" .. Finch just doesn't have the "it" factor when it comes to being cold, quiet, ruthless...like popovich is.. ANT needs that approach imo.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Finch needs some accountability for ant's antics and fines. Ant is our supposed star/leader, yet carries himself as a clown. Finch already messed up supporting ant earlier in the season...and now he cannot control his immaturity.

A good coach would have stopped his antics by now.

How do you think an NBA coach can do that?

Well first of all, ANTs antics are a bad look on the organization as a whole. As well as a bad look amongst his teammates.

Our future is dependent on ANT. Likelihood of winning a championship with your best player being immature is none. ANT HAS to lead.

There are ways Finch can send this message... unfortunately he isn't capable.

It's not like "oh, let's sit down, and have a heart to heart" .. Finch just doesn't have the "it" factor when it comes to being cold, quiet, ruthless...like popovich is.. ANT needs that approach imo.

I agree. In all business, you have to deal with big EGO. This is acceptable to a point where it penalize the group and in this case, as a coach , manager, you have to take action. Ja make a lots of mistake, Grizz make him accountable ( and support him outside court as well) to help him becoming a better person. Why Finch and TC are unable to do the same?

[shrink]

How do you think an NBA coach can do that?

Well first of all, ANTs antics are a bad look on the organization as a whole. As well as a bad look amongst his teammates.

Our future is dependent on ANT. Likelihood of winning a championship with your best player being immature is none. ANT HAS to lead.

There are ways Finch can send this message... unfortunately he isn't capable.

It's not like "oh, let's sit down, and have a heart to heart" .. Finch just doesn't have the "it" factor when it comes to being cold, quiet, ruthless...like popovich is.. ANT needs that approach imo.

I agree. In all business, you have to deal with big EGO. This is acceptable to a point where it penalize the group and in this case, as a coach , manager, you have to take action. Ja make a lots of mistake, Grizz make him accountable ( and support him outside court as well) to help him becoming a better person. Why Finch and TC are unable to do the same?

(If you are talking about both gun incidents, Silver held Ja accountable, not the team or coach)

I don’t see the overall point at all.

In the NBA, coaches have far less control over their players than in college or CEO’s in other businesses. Fans buy tickets to see the players play, not the coaches coach. Star players like Ant have salaries that dwarf coaches salaries, and their contracts are guaranteed, and are going to count against the cap. Players realize this, and they know they can go to the owner and demand coaches be fired - several players are whispered to be “coach killers.”

It sounds like people think Finch is only using the carrot, and needs to use the stick. NBA coaches don’t get to use the stick, and from what we’ve always heard, Ant likes Finch DESPITE the fact that he coaches him hard, and gives him as much stick, or more, than the other players.

Finally, I feel like a certain section of our fanbase just scapegoats Finch for anything they don’t like. If Ant doesn’t develop his passing, that’s on Finch. If Ant does develop his shooting, that’s all Ant. Naz develops in virtually every area from an undrafted player to 6MOY, that’s on Naz, but if he lags in rebounding, Finch isn’t “a good developmental coach.” People complain that Finch isn’t developing Dillingham and Minott, but after any game we lose, playing more talented and experienced players, they want Finch fired too.

I’m not saying Finch doesn’t make coaching mistakes. He does. And he admits them, in postgame conferences. I am saying though that the bar people are setting for an NBA coach isn’t realistic.

[winforlose]

Well first of all, ANTs antics are a bad look on the organization as a whole. As well as a bad look amongst his teammates.

Our future is dependent on ANT. Likelihood of winning a championship with your best player being immature is none. ANT HAS to lead.

There are ways Finch can send this message... unfortunately he isn't capable.

It's not like "oh, let's sit down, and have a heart to heart" .. Finch just doesn't have the "it" factor when it comes to being cold, quiet, ruthless...like popovich is.. ANT needs that approach imo.

I agree. In all business, you have to deal with big EGO. This is acceptable to a point where it penalize the group and in this case, as a coach , manager, you have to take action. Ja make a lots of mistake, Grizz make him accountable ( and support him outside court as well) to help him becoming a better person. Why Finch and TC are unable to do the same?

(If you are talking about both gun incidents, Silver held Ja accountable, not the team or coach)

I don’t see the overall point at all.

In the NBA, coaches have far less control over their players than in college or CEO’s in other businesses. Fans buy tickets to see the players play, not the coaches coach. Star players like Ant have salaries that dwarf coaches salaries, and their contracts are guaranteed, and are going to count against the cap. Players realize this, and they know they can go to the owner and demand coaches be fired - several players are whispered to be “coach killers.”

It sounds like people think Finch is only using the carrot, and needs to use the stick. NBA coaches don’t get to use the stick, and from what we’ve always heard, Ant likes Finch DESPITE the fact that he coaches him hard, and gives him as much stick, or more, than the other players.

Finally, I feel like a certain section of our fanbase just scapegoats Finch for anything they don’t like. If Ant doesn’t develop his passing, that’s on Finch. If Ant does develop his shooting, that’s all Ant. Naz develops in virtually every area from an undrafted player to 6MOY, that’s on Naz, but if he lags in rebounding, Finch isn’t “a good developmental coach.” People complain that Finch isn’t developing Dillingham and Minott, but after any game we lose, playing more talented and experienced players, they want Finch fired too.

I’m not saying Finch doesn’t make coaching mistakes. He does. And he admits them, in postgame conferences. I am saying though that the bar people are setting for an NBA coach isn’t realistic.

So your post mentions a lot of things I say directly. Even though it wasn’t solely a response to me, I am gonna address it as though it is.

1. You said “Naz develops in virtually every area from an undrafted player to 6MOY, that’s on Naz, but if he lags in rebounding, Finch isn’t “a good developmental coach.” My response is that of course Naz is going to improve his game. Any 19 year old with NBA potential should improve over time. He had quite a bit of time in Iowa and developed alongside JMAC. Finch came in 2021 just before the Covid shutdown midway through Naz’s second season. Naz already had his finishing package, Naz was already shooting 3 3PAs per game, and his shot blocking was already consistent with where it is now by the numbers. Naz transformed his body and changed positions. But has he developed new wrinkles to his game? He still isn’t good at boxing out, he still isn’t a great defender, (he has his moments,) he still turns it over at a similar rate. What has Finch done to maximize Naz that wasn’t immediately obvious to any other coach. How did Finch turn Naz from 2019 Naz into 2024 6MOY?

2. Finch has a winning culture, but when the locker room leaders like Pat Bev left we saw that culture backslide. For every cheery locker room kumbaya, we had Rudy punch Kyle, Jaden punch a wall, Ant melting down in the media multiple times, ect… Finch gets credit for his ability to help the players get along, but he isn’t solely responsible either. Edit to add: look at the effect of losing Karl on the locker room and how little Finch is able to do to get guys motivated this season. If you think our struggles and our coaching are unrelated we have very different opinions about the role of an NBA coach.

3. Ant keeps making the same mistakes over and over. Either you reach the conclusion that Ant cannot be coached and therefore must grow out of it or never reach his potential. Or you reach the conclusion that someone else might be able to have a different effect on Ant. I don’t know if Carrot and Stick works on Ant, but I also don’t think those are the only options. If Ant is coachable and Finch has not been successful in coaching Ant then _______ please finish this statement for me Shrink.

[shrink]

1. Naz deserves credit for developing his game, but I don’t think you can look at areas he hasn’t developed, and say “well that area must be Finch’s fault.”

2. Has the culture backslid since PatBev? The addition of Conley helped in 2022-2023, and we had our best season ever in 2023-24. I think we are seeing this season that Towns, while not a leader, was a stabilizing presence. And while I love Bev, I think another season around his antics would have been detrimental to Ant and the Wolves.

3. I agree it’s frustrating to see Ant continue to struggle as a playmaker. But when I get frustrated, I have to keep telling myself, “he’s only 23, and he started in the NBA with hardly any basketball skills except driving.” There are many areas that Ant can get better at, and there are many areas he has already gotten better at. Remember Ant from the first half of his rookie year? Yikes!

Ant said he chose to focus on two things last summer. Off-court preparedness and three-point shooting. I don’t know about the first, but he is tremendous now at the second! One of my favorite things about Ant is that he wants to be great, and he will listen to anyone (Rubio, PatBev, hell .. Luka Garza on the slow steps!) to improve. Big talent players often have equally big egos, and nobody can tell them anything, and Ant may be great because he’s not that. You and I certainly can get frustrated that he isn’t a better passer, and Finch has been preaching to him about letting the ball get “sticky” for as long as he’s been here. Personally, I think Ant’s complaints about double-teams may be a good thing, forcing him to realize Finch is right and of all the areas Ant needs to improve, he needs to prioritize playmaking.

EDIT: Oh, I can’t finish your statement, because I think Finch HAS been successful coaching Ant, to the tune of him developing into a second team All NBA player.

[winforlose]

1. Naz deserves credit for developing his game, but I don’t think you can look at areas he hasn’t developed, and say “well that area must be Finch’s fault.”

2. Has the culture backslid since PatBev? The addition of Conley helped in 2022-2023, and we had our best season ever in 2023-24. I think we are seeing this season that Towns, while not a leader, was a stabilizing presence. And while I love Bev, I think another season around his antics would have been detrimental to Ant and the Wolves.

3. I agree it’s frustrating to see Ant continue to struggle as a playmaker. But when I get frustrated, I have to keep telling myself, “he’s only 23, and he started in the NBA with hardly any basketball skills except driving.” There are many areas that Ant can get better at, and there are many areas he has already gotten better at. Remember Ant from the first half of his rookie year? Yikes!

Ant said he chose to focus on two things last summer. Off-court preparedness and three-point shooting. I don’t know about the first, but he is tremendous now at the second! One of my favorite things about Ant is that he wants to be great, and he will listen to anyone (Rubio, PatBev, hell .. Luka Garza on the slow steps!) to improve. Big talent players often have equally big egos, and nobody can tell them anything, and Ant may be great because he’s not that. You and I certainly can get frustrated that he isn’t a better passer, and Finch has been preaching to him about letting the ball get “sticky” for as long as he’s been here. Personally, I think Ant’s complaints about double-teams may be a good thing, forcing him to realize Finch is right and of all the areas Ant needs to improve, he needs to prioritize playmaking.

EDIT: Oh, I can’t finish your statement, because I think Finch HAS been successful coaching Ant, to the tune of him developing into a second team All NBA player.

1. Naz refined the things he was already doing well. That is not typically the area a coach gets credit. KAT who was a bad defender being used in high wall is a good example of a coach developing a player by playing to their strengths. Parking Jaden in a corner and making him shoot catch and shoot 3s is a good example of failing to develop him. If Jaden can do it, that isn’t playing to skill set or helping him to develop new tools on offense. Using Jaden in motion on offense without the ball is. Finch finding ways to help Naz rebound better (box out technique for example,) is. Some player development legit belongs to the coach, some does not. But when a guy fails to reach their potential more blame should fall on the coach if the coach misused the player.

2. Mike came in and Jaden still broke his hand. Rudy was still suspended for punching Kyle (missed a play in game.) KAT leaves, Kyle leaves, and the Wolves locker room goes from harmonious to Ant saying guys are in it for themselves. If the players are the lynch pin, then Finch isn’t.

3. For all of Ant’s improvements, he still doesn’t know how to close games. He still doesn’t put in the effort in a lot of games. He still talks trash about his teammates to the media. I could go on. When Ant routinely talks about not listening to Finch publicly and says he will in the future, that tells you that Finch cannot coach Ant.

[Klomp]

2. Has the culture backslid since PatBev? The addition of Conley helped in 2022-2023, and we had our best season ever in 2023-24. I think we are seeing this season that Towns, while not a leader, was a stabilizing presence. And while I loves Bev, I think another season around his antics would have been detrimental to Ant and the Wolves.

Ultimately, no culture is immune to issues within. Just look at what is happening in Miami. Do Pat Riley and Erik Spoelstra deserve to be fired because of how one man (err....child) is behaving?

The difference is how they are handled and how the team responds. I'd say the current Timberwolves culture is how the team responds to adversity. It might not be the next game, but it happens. That's not just a PatBev thing or a KAT thing. That's been for Connelly's whole tenure and you could even say the bulk of the time under Finch.

The Toronto thing happened. For some teams, that would have been the end. This team has moved on and responded.

[minimus]

Can we rename this thread to "I choose violence"?