Just brilliant team building

[KGdaBom]

It's probably for the best, but I loved Garza. It's a shame that a player as offensively gifted as him can't stick with our team.

[Slim Tubby]

We have declined Garza and Minott options. Happy to not see Minott in the team again, what a waste of time.

Desperate for a C, the Lakers must be salivating with Garza now on the market.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

[Klomp]

For what it is worth, the second round has always been like this, it isn't based on Tim Connelly's comments at all. Fred VanVleet opted to not get drafted because interested teams wanted to stash him in the G-League for a couple years (this was back when salaries were really rough). Instead, he opted to not get drafted, signed a Summer League deal with Toronto which had a "must play in three games" clause so he could showcase himself, and the rest is history. Fred VanVleet made life changing money because him and his agent were able to line-up a Summer League opportunity, rather than agreeing to be locked away in the G-League.

Now that I think about it, I think Naz Reid might have even been an example of this. Once you get to a certain point in the draft, you'd just rather take your chances at picking where you want to sign as an undrafted free agent.

[Klomp]

Guest was giving credit to Connelly, and for some reason, ARod and Lore, for the things he liked about the current team, while blaming Taylor. The current team is a manifestation of Rosas - all Connelly did was not get rid of people (and hell, Connelly WAS going to get rid of Naz before his 6MOY season if Taylor hadn’t stepped in!).

I’m not saying Connelly has done a bad job since then, just that the things guest mentioned were not because of Connelly.

Rudy Gobert was because of Rosas?
Mike Conley was because of Rosas?
Julius Randle was because of Rosas?

This is exactly why people believe arguments like this are so disingenuous.

There are only four people Gersson Rosas can claim - Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid, and Chris Finch. Yes, I agree that they are at the foundation of the franchise, but Rosas should not get credit for everything. Because when Rosas was terminated, McDaniels was still a 24 mpg spot starter and Ant was a rookie shooting 33% on 3-pointers.

Just because Rosas "hired" those four also doesn't mean he gets credit for their entire careers. Management styles matter. The organization was stifled under Rosas. Once he was gone, things were loosened up and players started to feel more empowered. That should not get credited to Rosas.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I really do not understand TC critics. We made 2 WCF in a row things never done before period. Yes some decisions could have probably be done better . On my opinion Rudy is overpaid but if we have a top defense he is the main reasons . Mike do all the small things that not appear in data and is a real leader on and off the floor. NAW did some great things here. The only decision I did not like was the KAT trade. Not the trade himself but the timing.. we loose 40 games to find chemistry and we have to fight all regular. This cost energy that we were short against OKC. But overall TC is a great manager and Finch a great coach.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I really do not understand TC critics. We made 2 WCF in a row things never done before period. Yes some decisions could have probably be done better . On my opinion Rudy is overpaid but if we have a top defense he is the main reasons . Mike do all the small things that not appear in data and is a real leader on and off the floor. NAW did some great things here. The only decision I did not like was the KAT trade. Not the trade himself but the timing.. we lost 40 games to find chemistry and we have to fight all regular season .This cost energy that we were missing against OKC. But overall TC is a great manager and Finch a great coach.

[minimus]

Rosas brought here Gupta as well... That was an under radar move, because I believe that Gupta is a really top level basketball manager

[Klomp]

Rosas brought here Gupta as well... That was an under radar move, because I believe that Gupta is a really top level basketball manager

....who isn't even in basketball anymore. He works for Chelsea FC.

[minimus]

Rosas brought here Gupta as well... That was an under radar move, because I believe that Gupta is a really top level basketball manager

....who isn't even in basketball anymore. He works for Chelsea FC.

I know, but in Gupta brought this attention to details in basketball operations, which certainly lacked during Thibs era and before.

[shrink]

Guest was giving credit to Connelly, and for some reason, ARod and Lore, for the things he liked about the current team, while blaming Taylor. The current team is a manifestation of Rosas - all Connelly did was not get rid of people (and hell, Connelly WAS going to get rid of Naz before his 6MOY season if Taylor hadn’t stepped in!).

I’m not saying Connelly has done a bad job since then, just that the things guest mentioned were not because of Connelly.

Rudy Gobert was because of Rosas?
Mike Conley was because of Rosas?
Julius Randle was because of Rosas?

This is exactly why people believe arguments like this are so disingenuous.

There are only four people Gersson Rosas can claim - Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid, and Chris Finch.

i don’t know how many damn times I need to keep saying this before people go back and read his post, but guest did not mention Gobert, Conley or Randle. AT ALL.

Guest was specifically happy with our three guys under 25 (Edwards, McDaniels and Naz Reid) and Coach Finch.

He then credited Connelly, and Lore for that. That is incorrect, as you just said, those are four “that Rosas can claim.”

As I keep saying, read the first post. Read the things he liked, even if they disagree with the things YOU like.

[Klomp]

Guest was giving credit to Connelly, and for some reason, ARod and Lore, for the things he liked about the current team, while blaming Taylor. The current team is a manifestation of Rosas - all Connelly did was not get rid of people (and hell, Connelly WAS going to get rid of Naz before his 6MOY season if Taylor hadn’t stepped in!).

I’m not saying Connelly has done a bad job since then, just that the things guest mentioned were not because of Connelly.

Rudy Gobert was because of Rosas?
Mike Conley was because of Rosas?
Julius Randle was because of Rosas?

This is exactly why people believe arguments like this are so disingenuous.

There are only four people Gersson Rosas can claim - Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid, and Chris Finch.

i don’t know how many damn times I need to keep saying this before people go back and read his post, but guest did not mention Gobert, Conley or Randle. AT ALL.

Guest was specifically happy with our three guys under 25 (Edwards, McDaniels and Naz Reid) and Coach Finch.

He then credited Connelly, and Lore for that. That is incorrect, as you just said, those are four “that Rosas can claim.”

As I keep saying, read the first post. Read the things he liked, even if they disagree with the things YOU like.

I just went back and read the post. I don't think Guest was giving Connelly (or Conley) credit for drafting those guys. Obviously, that would be disingenuous as well.

What he credited Connelly for was to establish the winning positive culture. That has absolutely been Connelly's work.

Again, maybe they would have developed the same under Rosas, we'll never know. But all we have to go off is that in Rosas' two seasons as executive, Minnesota went 19-45 and 23-49. He should not really get credit for that first playoff run, because he was fired in September before training camp even opened. That was the moment when "LoRod" and Finch were empowered to do more within the organization, and evidence shows that it resulted in the team making a massive step forward. That wasn't Connelly, but it definitely wasn't Rosas.

[shrink]

Rudy Gobert was because of Rosas?
Mike Conley was because of Rosas?
Julius Randle was because of Rosas?

This is exactly why people believe arguments like this are so disingenuous.

There are only four people Gersson Rosas can claim - Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid, and Chris Finch.

i don’t know how many damn times I need to keep saying this before people go back and read his post, but guest did not mention Gobert, Conley or Randle. AT ALL.

Guest was specifically happy with our three guys under 25 (Edwards, McDaniels and Naz Reid) and Coach Finch.

He then credited Connelly, and Lore for that. That is incorrect, as you just said, those are four “that Rosas can claim.”

As I keep saying, read the first post. Read the things he liked, even if they disagree with the things YOU like.

I just went back and read the post. I don't think Guest was giving Connelly (or Conley) credit for drafting those guys. Obviously, that would be disingenuous as well.

What he credited Connelly for was to establish the winning positive culture. That has absolutely been Connelly's work.

Again, maybe they would have developed the same under Rosas, we'll never know. But all we have to go off is that in Rosas' two seasons as executive, Minnesota went 19-45 and 23-49. He should not really get credit for that first playoff run, because he was fired in September before training camp even opened. That was the moment when "LoRod" and Finch were empowered to do more within the organization, and evidence shows that it resulted in the team making a massive step forward. That wasn't Connelly, but it definitely wasn't Rosas.

You have your young core of proven players under 25 locked up for the long-term who all get along in NAZ-Jaden-Ant

You have plenty of young players who show promise in Dilly- Clark- TSJ

You drafted a potential stud center who has time to develop learning under Rudy

If everything kinda stays the same, they should have a lot of cap space in 2 years

You have a top coach and front office that have established a winning positive culture, getting rid of the stink of the Taylor led Wolves.

Just brilliant work by Conley, and gotta give Lore and Arod a lot of credit. They have been huge at changing the culture.

I would only put the Thunder ahead of the Wolves as far as best team situation

Show me where he credited Gobert for the team-building?
Show me where he credited Mike Conley for the team-building?
Show me where he credited Julius Randle for the team-building?

He credited Connelly, Lore and ARod for NAZ-JADEN-ANT
He credited Connelly, Lore and ARod for the young draft picks that haven’t done much yet.
He credited a top coach (FINCH) and front office that brought a winning culture. Finch turned this around with Rosas’ players in Year One, even with Beasley, Vanderbilt and PatBev. And the winning of the last three season were with Taylor as the owner.

I’m getting awfully tired of people ignoring what people post, and pretending it is what they believe. If you want to give credit to Connelly for Gobert, Conley and Randle improving the team, fine. I agree with you. But those things were NOT what guest was saying, and pretending like they were is simply untrue.

[Klomp]

Getting away from the Connelly vs. Rosas discussion, I think where the Timberwolves discourse seems to fall flat is that people assume we are building around Julius Randle and Rudy Gobert because they are the second and third highest paid players on the team. We are not. The way I look at it, the focus has always been about Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, and Naz Reid, fostering a culture of development and nurturing so that they will truly be able to carry the full load years down the road.

The first step was Rudy Gobert. We needed a defensive maturity, which Rudy Gobert delivered. He transformed the defensive culture. Jaden and Ant had the tools, but needed a push to make it a larger focus and priority.
The next big change came a year ago. Ant needed someone to take some of the pressure off of him. While it was rocky at times, the addition of Julius helped Ant take another step forward.

But again, the three kids will be at the forefront of the organization's decision-making process for the next four seasons and beyond. So far, it has resulted in sustained success that the franchise has never seen before. That is why so many of us are so excited.

[Klomp]

Show me where he credited Gobert for the team-building?
Show me where he credited Mike Conley for the team-building?
Show me where he credited Julius Randle for the team-building?

He credited Connelly, Lore and ARod for NAZ-JADEN-ANT
He credited Connelly, Lore and ARod for the young draft picks that haven’t done much yet.
He credited a top coach (FINCH) and front office that brought a winning culture. Finch turned this around with Rosas’ players in Year One, even with Beasley, Vanderbilt and PatBev. And the winning of the last three season were with Taylor as the owner.

I’m getting awfully tired of people ignoring what people post, and pretending it is what they believe. If you want to give credit to Connelly for Gobert, Conley and Randle improving the team, fine. I agree with you. But those things were NOT what guest was saying, and pretending like they were is simply untrue.

OK, I went all the way back to the first post in the thread, not the one you quoted here. My mistake.

I still don't interpret the post as taking credit for Ant, Naz and Jaden. I read "locked up" as having them all signed and under contract long term. There were definitely questions about the plausibility of this a year ago.

[Danimals]

What’s crazy is that it’s pretty clear that Rosas and Connelly are the two best POBOs in wolves history. On top of that Finch is the best coach we’ve ever had. We are living in the golden age of Timberwolves basketball! (Obviously the bar extremely low.)

[shrink]

Getting away from the Connelly vs. Rosas discussion, I think where the Timberwolves discourse seems to fall flat is that people assume we are building around Julius Randle and Rudy Gobert because they are the second and third highest paid players on the team. We are not. The way I look at it, the focus has always been about Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, and Naz Reid, fostering a culture of development and nurturing so that they will truly be able to carry the full load years down the road..

Totally agree. When people criticized the Gobert trade because it wasn’t on Ant’s timeline, Tim Connelly justified it by saying he believed that you need to get superstars like Ant playing winning ball and get high pressure, playoff experience early in their career. I agree, and I think that we may have failed Towns in this way, by constantly surrounding him with low-skilled lottery pick rookies while we tanked year after year.

[KGdaBom]

Rosas brought here Gupta as well... That was an under radar move, because I believe that Gupta is a really top level basketball manager

....who isn't even in basketball anymore. He works for Chelsea FC.

I vote Nikola Pekovic as the most likely post basketball employment as a mob enforcer.
Click the link for more information.

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/off-the-court/the-nba-player-that-became-a-mobster-after-his-basketball-career

[younggunsmn]

Getting away from the Connelly vs. Rosas discussion, I think where the Timberwolves discourse seems to fall flat is that people assume we are building around Julius Randle and Rudy Gobert because they are the second and third highest paid players on the team. We are not. The way I look at it, the focus has always been about Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, and Naz Reid, fostering a culture of development and nurturing so that they will truly be able to carry the full load years down the road..

Totally agree. When people criticized the Gobert trade because it wasn’t on Ant’s timeline, Tim Connelly justified it by saying he believed that you need to get superstars like Ant playing winning ball and get high pressure, playoff experience early in their career. I agree, and I think that we may have failed Towns in this way, by constantly surrounding him with low-skilled lottery pick rookies while we tanked year after year.

Thibs tried to do the same thing for KAT with Jimmy Butler and it backfired spectacularly and cost us Zach Lavine and Lauri Markaanen.
It was the impatience and poor judgement that killed us. It was always going to take 3-4 years to build around KAT.
Because the cupboard was bare from all the dumb crap we did for 5-6 years before that trying to do the same thing for Kevin Love and Al Jefferson.

Here's a list of the transactions between 2009-2014 if you want to take a look:
https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Timberwolves&BeginDate=2009-01-01&EndDate=2014-07-31&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&Submit=Search&start=0

The failure during that period had nothing to do with chasing draft picks.
If anything we didn't value draft picks and used them on cash and veterans.
And we also completely blew every draft pick we had during the period between drafting Kevin Love in 2008 and Zach Lavine in 2014.

We traded 1st round picks for Martell Webster and Chase Budinger.
We used a protected 1st (that became 2 high 2nds) and an additional 2nd to dump contracts so we could sign Brandon Roy and Andrei Kirilenko.
We sold multiple 2nd round picks, including the rights to Chandler Parsons and Nikola Mirotic for cash and even sold the 26th pick that became a starter on a contending Thunder team one year (Andre Roberson).

This is not an approach that hasn't been tried before.
The results have just been much better so far this time.

[Klomp]

Thibs tried to do the same thing for KAT with Jimmy Butler and it backfired spectacularly and cost us Zach Lavine and Lauri Markaanen.
It was the impatience and poor judgement that killed us. It was always going to take 3-4 years to build around KAT.

It wasn't the trade for Jimmy itself that killed things. It was Thibs' self-sabotage, refusing to accept Jimmy's trade request to a point where Jimmy decided to go nuclear like a petulant child.

That would not happen with the current regime, because Connelly places value on character above almost anything else.

[younggunsmn]

Thibs tried to do the same thing for KAT with Jimmy Butler and it backfired spectacularly and cost us Zach Lavine and Lauri Markaanen.
It was the impatience and poor judgement that killed us. It was always going to take 3-4 years to build around KAT.

It wasn't the trade for Jimmy itself that killed things. It was Thibs' self-sabotage, refusing to accept Jimmy's trade request to a point where Jimmy decided to go nuclear like a petulant child.

That would not happen with the current regime, because Connelly places value on character above almost anything else.

The trade itself was rotten from the start. Jimmy was never going to want to be here long term.

We will never know what a team of Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Markaanen/KAT could have done.
It might not have been great defensively but it sure would have been exciting to watch.
Flip passing changed a lot of things.

Going after a big time POBO/coach hire in Thibs drove a promising young team straight into a wall.

That was the same fear when TC started taking big swings too.
So far so good but its a long road.