Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[big3_8_19_21]

I just dont get why Riley wouldn't deal Richardson to get Butler

From what I've read and heard, he really likes the thought of a team that has Bam, Winslow, Butler, Richardson.. from there you can plug in Olynyk, Ellington, or Tyler Johnson depending on the matchup but you can essentially switch on everything on defense with this lineup.

Of course he likes the idea of not giving up any of your best assets.

[islandHEAT]

Normally Riley would trade a young prospect at the drop of a hat for a proven vet. Their reluctance to include Richardson tells me that they know something via a probable a one way flow of info from MIN>JB/JB Agent>Heat.

[AirP.]

I just dont get why Riley wouldn't deal Richardson to get Butler

Sadly, fans and front offices seem to consistently overvalue their best overall player, and their best young player.

In the grand scheme of things though, neither Richardson or Bam have that much value compared to the truly good players in the nba, or the truly star-level prospects. The market has spoken, with the most Richardson could get was a non-star contract, and 13 teams passing on Bam when he was drafted. They may increase their value, but these are not even stars, in a deal for a superstar.

In the end, I would be surprised if Riley wouldn’t include Richardson.

Riley is trying to lowball Minnesota because of the situation. Unless you're rebuilding, I would never trade a player who is by far the best player in a trade.

Looking at Minnesota from the outside, in basically a little over a decade you've had 3 stars want out of Minnesota, KG, K.Love and now J.Butler, people are mad at Butler since they just traded for him last year but isn't this a troubling trend and do people think it's going to end with Butler and not end up happening with Towns also? Watching Taylor just keep injecting as much as he does into the decision process for the franchise, I don't see this trend ending anytime soon under his ownership, it's not going to stop when Butler or Thibs leaves, it's going to continue till Taylor is no longer the owner.

[shrink]

Normally Riley would trade a young prospect at the drop of a hat for a proven vet. Their reluctance to include Richardson tells me that they know something via a probable a one way flow of info from MIN>JB/JB Agent>Heat.

The lack of evidence is never evidence - that’s a logical fallacy.

For example, I could say, “The reason we haven’t seen a deal yet is because Thibs knows if he holds out long enough, Riley will give him every piece he wants, Riley is known as a championship GM, and he’s not going to waste the fact that Jimmy wants to come to MIA, and NOT get Butler. Riley knows that if he doesn’t pay up, his reputation takes a pretty big dent if Jimmy is eventually traded elsewhere for pennies on the dollar. He doesn’t want to force Heat fans to endure two seasons of mediocrity stuck in the middle, without star talent, the assets to trade for it, or the cap space to get it in free agency. He can’t turn to them and say, “sorry we missed putting Jimmy Butler in a Heat uniform for several years, I was trying to keep Josh Richardson!””

But I don’t believe the lack of evidence proves anything - it just is an excuse to speculate.

[Worm Guts]

I just dont get why Riley wouldn't deal Richardson to get Butler

Sadly, fans and front offices seem to consistently overvalue their best overall player, and their best young player.

In the grand scheme of things though, neither Richardson or Bam have that much value compared to the truly good players in the nba, or the truly star-level prospects. The market has spoken, with the most Richardson could get was a non-star contract, and 13 teams passing on Bam when he was drafted. They may increase their value, but these are not even stars, in a deal for a superstar.

In the end, I would be surprised if Riley wouldn’t include Richardson.

Riley is trying to lowball Minnesota because of the situation. Unless you're rebuilding, I would never trade a player who is by far the best player in a trade.

Looking at Minnesota from the outside, in basically a little over a decade you've had 3 stars want out of Minnesota, KG, K.Love and now J.Butler, people are mad at Butler since they just traded for him last year but isn't this a troubling trend and do people think it's going to end with Butler and not end up happening with Towns also? Watching Taylor just keep injecting as much as he does into the decision process for the franchise, I don't see this trend ending anytime soon under his ownership, it's not going to stop when Butler or Thibs leaves, it's going to continue till Taylor is no longer the owner.

KG didn't want out of Minnesota.

[mh_3]

Heat fan here.

I believe Riley is just holding off to see if he can actually pull this off without Richardson, but I seriously doubt that if the Heat were pushed, that they’d never include him.

I think this is the kind of deal that will get done.



Miami can either send their 2019 FRP or Winslow to SAC to take on Dieng. If MIN is adamant about not wanting HW, maybe MIA replaces HW with Olynyk or JJ.

What do you guys think?


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[shrink]

Sadly, fans and front offices seem to consistently overvalue their best overall player, and their best young player.

In the grand scheme of things though, neither Richardson or Bam have that much value compared to the truly good players in the nba, or the truly star-level prospects. The market has spoken, with the most Richardson could get was a non-star contract, and 13 teams passing on Bam when he was drafted. They may increase their value, but these are not even stars, in a deal for a superstar.

In the end, I would be surprised if Riley wouldn’t include Richardson.

Riley is trying to lowball Minnesota because of the situation. Unless you're rebuilding, I would never trade a player who is by far the best player in a trade.

Looking at Minnesota from the outside, in basically a little over a decade you've had 3 stars want out of Minnesota, KG, K.Love and now J.Butler, people are mad at Butler since they just traded for him last year but isn't this a troubling trend and do people think it's going to end with Butler and not end up happening with Towns also? Watching Taylor just keep injecting as much as he does into the decision process for the franchise, I don't see this trend ending anytime soon under his ownership, it's not going to stop when Butler or Thibs leaves, it's going to continue till Taylor is no longer the owner.

KG didn't want out of Minnesota.

And K.Love wanted out because Kahn didn’t want to give him a fifth year on his max deal.

[islandHEAT]

Normally Riley would trade a young prospect at the drop of a hat for a proven vet. Their reluctance to include Richardson tells me that they know something via a probable a one way flow of info from MIN>JB/JB Agent>Heat.

The lack of evidence is never evidence - that’s a logical fallacy.

For example, I could say, “The reason we haven’t seen a deal yet is because Thibs knows if he holds out long enough, Riley will give him every piece he wants, Riley is known as a championship GM, and he’s not going to waste the fact that Jimmy wants to come to MIA, and NOT get Butler. Riley knows that if he doesn’t pay up, his reputation takes a pretty big dent if Jimmy is eventually traded elsewhere for pennies on the dollar. He doesn’t want to force Heat fans to endure two seasons of mediocrity stuck in the middle, without star talent, the assets to trade for it, or the cap space to get it in free agency. He can’t turn to them and say, “sorry we missed putting Jimmy Butler in a Heat uniform for several years, I was trying to keep Josh Richardson!””

But I don’t believe the lack of evidence proves anything - it just is an excuse to speculate.

LOLOL, the evidence is that Riley hates draft picks and young players and gets rid of them at every possible chance. Respectlfully, there is something more there whether you want to believe it or not.

[ifrosty13]

No significant interest in either of those two. We only take Whiteside to give you back Gorgui in a deal to acquire Richardson. We already have a younger PG in Teague and Tyus ready to move up to starter if needed.

Again, I'm just going by the comments shared in that podcast that came out today, and the fact that Miami's name keeps coming up as the landing spot for Butler. Everyone keeps mentioning that Richardson isn't happening, maybe McGruder?

Maybe Whiteside and Dragic are involved but there is some sort of 3 team deal with Phoenix?

If Richardson isn't happening, I don't see many attractive pieces on the Heat. I would just take the bucks offer or wait for something better pop up.

I get that. I like you am trying to make sense of what's being reported. What strikes me as odd is that multiple reports have come out saying that everyone that can be traded is available with the exception of Bam and Jrich. I believe this report that's coming out while not incorrect, may be incomplete. Yes Hassan/Dragic have been offered but I believe Miami has offered multiple packages just not with including Jrich.

I for one, have no issue in including Jrich in a deal, while I'd prefer it being Winslow because I do think Jrich and Butler would be great together, to me Jrich isn't a dealbreaker.

I ultimately think, talks heat up again between tonight and tomorrow, and we have an agreement by Friday morning at the latest. (At least this is what I'm hoping for).

[AirP.]

And K.Love wanted out because Kahn didn’t want to give him a fifth year on his max deal.

Right, because Taylor had no say in that. That could be exactly what's going on in the Butler situation now.

[Neeva]

Shouldn’t you be worried about the bad trend that happens to the bulls star players.

I just dont get why Riley wouldn't deal Richardson to get Butler

Sadly, fans and front offices seem to consistently overvalue their best overall player, and their best young player.

In the grand scheme of things though, neither Richardson or Bam have that much value compared to the truly good players in the nba, or the truly star-level prospects. The market has spoken, with the most Richardson could get was a non-star contract, and 13 teams passing on Bam when he was drafted. They may increase their value, but these are not even stars, in a deal for a superstar.

In the end, I would be surprised if Riley wouldn’t include Richardson.

Riley is trying to lowball Minnesota because of the situation. Unless you're rebuilding, I would never trade a player who is by far the best player in a trade.

Looking at Minnesota from the outside, in basically a little over a decade you've had 3 stars want out of Minnesota, KG, K.Love and now J.Butler, people are mad at Butler since they just traded for him last year but isn't this a troubling trend and do people think it's going to end with Butler and not end up happening with Towns also? Watching Taylor just keep injecting as much as he does into the decision process for the franchise, I don't see this trend ending anytime soon under his ownership, it's not going to stop when Butler or Thibs leaves, it's going to continue till Taylor is no longer the owner.

[Worm Guts]

Riley is trying to lowball Minnesota because of the situation. Unless you're rebuilding, I would never trade a player who is by far the best player in a trade.

Looking at Minnesota from the outside, in basically a little over a decade you've had 3 stars want out of Minnesota, KG, K.Love and now J.Butler, people are mad at Butler since they just traded for him last year but isn't this a troubling trend and do people think it's going to end with Butler and not end up happening with Towns also? Watching Taylor just keep injecting as much as he does into the decision process for the franchise, I don't see this trend ending anytime soon under his ownership, it's not going to stop when Butler or Thibs leaves, it's going to continue till Taylor is no longer the owner.

KG didn't want out of Minnesota.

And K.Love wanted out because Kahn didn’t want to give him a fifth year on his max deal.

I don't know if K. Love ever firmly stated why he wanted out, I would assume it's that and because the Wolves had been bad for so long. With KG, I just remember seeming hurt after finding out the Wolves were trying to trade him. People just assumed he wanted out because it had been speculated that he would force his way out for such a long time.

[AirP.]

Shouldn’t you be worried about the bad trend that happens to the bulls star players.

No.

[Howard Cosell]

Update coming in about 30 minutes.

Hint: Gorgui Dieng won’t be playing tonight for the Timberwolves.

[AirP.]

KG didn't want out of Minnesota.

And K.Love wanted out because Kahn didn’t want to give him a fifth year on his max deal.

I don't know if K. Love ever firmly stated why he wanted out, I would assume it's that and because the Wolves had been bad for so long. With KG, I just remember seeming hurt after finding out the Wolves were trying to trade him. People just assumed he wanted out because it had been speculated that he would force his way out for such a long time.

Well it's been said by numerous people that KG and Glen Taylor didn't see eye to eye, but Minnesota had been his home for years by then. Butler who is aligned with the coach/POBO wants out so to me that seems to be something coming from ownership because I think if it weren't, Thibs would have done something.

[Loyal[]Wolf]

Update coming in about 30 minutes.

Hint: Gorgui Dieng won’t be playing tonight for the Timberwolves.

Dude, I thought you were banned. What happened to staying off the forum until January?

[KGdaBom]

The bucks offer is centered around Brogdon (who can play the SG IMO) . Bledsoe is a filler and expiring. It could help to extend the same Brogdon and Tyus.

Brogdon is a 1/2. We need someone bigger a 2/3. In that deal either Bledsoe or Teague need to be moved to Phoenix. That would be funny/cool to send Bledsoe back to Phoenix.

If you get something useful back for them, sure you send him anywhere. But Bledsoe is expiring, so there is no need to attach something to dump him. In Teague case, depends on how you value the cap space.
And yes, Brogdon is a 1/2, who can cover the shooting and ball handling issues Wiggins has, while being better on defense than any other perimeter player in the roster. I think he has the size to be a full time SG, who would excel at passing and play making. It's pretty close to Richardson in a lot of stats per100, and only one year older. I think we could really use someone like that.

I'm not interested in trading Butler for expiring contracts. I want value. Hopefully Wolves want value. To carry Teague and Bledsoe on the team for the season and then waive goodbye to Bledsoe does not float my boat.

[Worm Guts]

And K.Love wanted out because Kahn didn’t want to give him a fifth year on his max deal.

I don't know if K. Love ever firmly stated why he wanted out, I would assume it's that and because the Wolves had been bad for so long. With KG, I just remember seeming hurt after finding out the Wolves were trying to trade him. People just assumed he wanted out because it had been speculated that he would force his way out for such a long time.

Well it's been said by numerous people that KG and Glen Taylor didn't see eye to eye, but Minnesota had been his home for years by then. Butler who is aligned with the coach/POBO wants out so to me that seems to be something coming from ownership because I think if it weren't, Thibs would have done something.

I don’t think Taylor and KG did see eye to eye but that doesn’t mean KG is the one who initiated the divorce (it was probably actually McHale).
I think it’s probably oversimplifying things to blame Taylor for Butler wanting out.

[ifrosty13]

Update coming in about 30 minutes.

Hint: Gorgui Dieng won’t be playing tonight for the Timberwolves.

I see you're not a man of your word.

[Kobewade11]

Update coming in about 30 minutes.

Hint: Gorgui Dieng won’t be playing tonight for the Timberwolves.

You havent hit on anything so far. What happened to midnight central time yesterday and early wednesday morning?