Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[winforlose]

I think trading Ant drastically reduces the team’s ceiling for the next six years.

Why specifically? Even if Ant turns into the best slasher in the league and finds a more consistent 3 point shot while maintaining excellent defense, he is just one player. He will be a max contract at that point as well. In my hypo you get two up and comers in Duarte and Maxey as well as two established playoff level starters in Curry and Turner. You keep all your draft capital and 2/3rds of the youth movement with MCD and Leo. You honestly think a young core coming up with Maxey at the 1, Duarte at the 2, Leo at the 3 and MCD at the 4 couldn’t have a huge ceiling?

[Wolveswin]

Why the hell sre we discussing an Edwards trade???

Simple answer, because if it was done right could be massive. In my example we would get two starting level players (or Maxey could be a 6th man,) and then flip Simmons for another truly excellent player and young player (my example was Turner and Duarte.)

Imagine

Beverly/Maxey/Leo
Curry/Dlo/Duarte
V8/Dlo/MCD or duarte
KAT/MCD/V8
Turner/Reid

We would have all our picks as well JO, JMAC, Nowell, and Layman for other moves. We could also dump Layman somewhere and take on Blake Griffin as insurance if the nets want to lower their tax payments as well.

I would prefer Brown and Turner if trading Edwards. No Simmons.

To Celtics: Sabonis + Beasley

To Pacers: Prince + Edwards

To Wolves: Brown + Turner + Nesmith

Turner
Towns
JV | McDaniels
Brown
Russell

OR

Turner
Towns
Brown
Russell
Beverley

[winforlose]

Why the hell sre we discussing an Edwards trade???

Simple answer, because if it was done right could be massive. In my example we would get two starting level players (or Maxey could be a 6th man,) and then flip Simmons for another truly excellent player and young player (my example was Turner and Duarte.)

Imagine

Beverly/Maxey/Leo
Curry/Dlo/Duarte
V8/Dlo/MCD or duarte
KAT/MCD/V8
Turner/Reid

We would have all our picks as well JO, JMAC, Nowell, and Layman for other moves. We could also dump Layman somewhere and take on Blake Griffin as insurance if the nets want to lower their tax payments as well.

I would prefer Brown and Turner if trading Edwards. No Simmons.

To Celtics: Sabonis + Beasley

To Pacers: Prince + Edwards

To Wolves: Brown + Turner + Nesmith

Turner
Towns
JV | McDaniels
Brown
Russell

OR

Turner
Towns
Brown
Russell
Beverley

I like the thinking but I worry about the money. My way gets us two rookie contracts plus when curry gets a bump it will still be around 16-18 high end and Turner around 24-25 high end. Your way has us right away with a huge Brown contract and only one rookie scale. Also Nesmith is inferior to both my suggested rookies. Plus, while Philly might give away Maxey and Curry to end the Simmons drama and bring in Ant (Beasley is a more expensive and less efficient version of Curry,) Indy will not give away Turner and Sabonis for Ant. You might get one and some other role players, but not both.

[shrink]

I think trading Ant drastically reduces the team’s ceiling for the next six years.

Why specifically? Even if Ant turns into the best slasher in the league and finds a more consistent 3 point shot while maintaining excellent defense, he is just one player. He will be a max contract at that point as well. In my hypo you get two up and comers in Duarte and Maxey as well as two established playoff level starters in Curry and Turner. You keep all your draft capital and 2/3rds of the youth movement with MCD and Leo. You honestly think a young core coming up with Maxey at the 1, Duarte at the 2, Leo at the 3 and MCD at the 4 couldn’t have a huge ceiling?

I try to avoid being too much of a homer, but I heard a national podcast say that if Edwards reaches even 90% of his ceiling, he’s a Hall of Famer … and that was from guys who have never been high on him. His size and athleticism trumps almost anyone who guards him, and I have realized his confidence and his desire for greatness are huge assets as well. Most of the red flags he had before the draft are either gone or dropping.

Teams that win championships have a superstar - often more than one. I think the last team to win one without a top ten player was Billups’ Pistons like 25 years ago? Superstars are rare, and hard for teams to acquire. Having one greatly increases your chances of getting more, as we’ve seen stars consider CLE with LeBron, and MIL with Giannis. Guys like Maxey, Duarte and Leo could be very good, but these are players you can attract. It’s unlikely any ever crack the top 40, and right now none are in the top 100.

If the goal is championships, I think holding onto Ant is MIN’s course.

[winforlose]

I think trading Ant drastically reduces the team’s ceiling for the next six years.

Why specifically? Even if Ant turns into the best slasher in the league and finds a more consistent 3 point shot while maintaining excellent defense, he is just one player. He will be a max contract at that point as well. In my hypo you get two up and comers in Duarte and Maxey as well as two established playoff level starters in Curry and Turner. You keep all your draft capital and 2/3rds of the youth movement with MCD and Leo. You honestly think a young core coming up with Maxey at the 1, Duarte at the 2, Leo at the 3 and MCD at the 4 couldn’t have a huge ceiling?

I try to avoid being too much of a homer, but I heard a national podcast say that if Edwards reaches even 90% of his ceiling, he’s a Hall of Famer … and that was from guys who have never been high on him. His size and athleticism trumps almost anyone who guards him, and I have realized his attitude and desire to be great is a huge asset as well. Most of the red flags he had before the draft are either gone or dropping.

Teams that win championships have a superstar - often more than one. I think the last team to win one was Billups’ Pistons like 25 years ago? Superstars are rare, and hard for teams to acquire. Having one greatly increases your chances of getting more, as we’ve seen stars consider CLE with LeBron, and MIL with Giannis. Guys like Maxey, Duarte and Leo could be very good, but these are players you can attract. It’s unlikely any ever crack the top 40, and right now none are in the top 100.

If the goal is championships, I think holding onto Ant is MIN’s course.

In an ideal world maybe this is true. But in this one I fear we lose the team to another city in the next 5 to 10 years if we don’t start winning. Ant may be a future superstar, but his 3 point shooting is a red flag, as is his refusal to get into players bodies. Ant may turn into what we all hope he becomes, but that assumes a lot of things including his continued health, desire to stay on this team, ability to fix his flaws, ect…

My suggestion brings us four major contributors now. Turner fixes a chunk of our size problem, Curry, Maxey, and Duarte all bring shooting and creation. All of them can fit with our defensive scheme and even if KAT gets hurt we can still win. I would also probably make a move for Theis with Layman and Jo’s money and 2nd round picks for extra depth, but the point is we turn one great player Ant and one disappointment in Beasley into two young studs, a flamethrower and the big we so desperately need. This makes us win which keeps our guys and attracts others on cheap contracts. Also, KAT is a super star and like it or not Dlo even when shooting poorly is a star with superstar moments/flashes.

[theGreatRC]

We should go after RoCo

[winforlose]

We should go after RoCo

As much as I love Roco, we just don’t have a spot for him. Our defense is fine as is, but our offense needs a lot of help. Roco is having a down year on offense but a solid year on defense. It would be like trying to bulk up by eating a ton of candy. Sure you will put on pounds, but not muscle.

[Note30]

Why specifically? Even if Ant turns into the best slasher in the league and finds a more consistent 3 point shot while maintaining excellent defense, he is just one player. He will be a max contract at that point as well. In my hypo you get two up and comers in Duarte and Maxey as well as two established playoff level starters in Curry and Turner. You keep all your draft capital and 2/3rds of the youth movement with MCD and Leo. You honestly think a young core coming up with Maxey at the 1, Duarte at the 2, Leo at the 3 and MCD at the 4 couldn’t have a huge ceiling?

I try to avoid being too much of a homer, but I heard a national podcast say that if Edwards reaches even 90% of his ceiling, he’s a Hall of Famer … and that was from guys who have never been high on him. His size and athleticism trumps almost anyone who guards him, and I have realized his attitude and desire to be great is a huge asset as well. Most of the red flags he had before the draft are either gone or dropping.

Teams that win championships have a superstar - often more than one. I think the last team to win one was Billups’ Pistons like 25 years ago? Superstars are rare, and hard for teams to acquire. Having one greatly increases your chances of getting more, as we’ve seen stars consider CLE with LeBron, and MIL with Giannis. Guys like Maxey, Duarte and Leo could be very good, but these are players you can attract. It’s unlikely any ever crack the top 40, and right now none are in the top 100.

If the goal is championships, I think holding onto Ant is MIN’s course.

In an ideal world maybe this is true. But in this one I fear we lose the team to another city in the next 5 to 10 years if we don’t start winning. Ant may be a future superstar, but his 3 point shooting is a red flag, as is his refusal to get into players bodies. Ant may turn into what we all hope he becomes, but that assumes a lot of things including his continued health, desire to stay on this team, ability to fix his flaws, ect…

My suggestion brings us four major contributors now. Turner fixes a chunk of our size problem, Curry, Maxey, and Duarte all bring shooting and creation. All of them can fit with our defensive scheme and even if KAT gets hurt we can still win. I would also probably make a move for Theis with Layman and Jo’s money and 2nd round picks for extra depth, but the point is we turn one great player Ant and one disappointment in Beasley into two young studs, a flamethrower and the big we so desperately need. This makes us win which keeps our guys and attracts others on cheap contracts. Also, KAT is a super star and like it or not Dlo even when shooting poorly is a star with superstar moments/flashes.

If you lose the city you lose the city. It's been well over 15+ years since a modicum of success.

I'd rather rebuild around Edwards if we're scared of losing people and or the city.

[_AIJ_]

Beasley can go. Nowell is ready

[winforlose]

Beasley can go. Nowell is ready

While I agree, I think Finch might have some personal beef with Nowell that keeps him off the floor. I don’t know why JMAC, Prince, and Leo have all been given priority over him, but it seems clear Nowell is not long for MN.

[Nick K]

Beasley can go. Nowell is ready

While I agree, I think Finch might have some personal beef with Nowell that keeps him off the floor. I don’t know why JMAC, Prince, and Leo have all been given priority over him, but it seems clear Nowell is not long for MN.

Nope. It's easy to think that but the coach post game last night praised Nowell and even suggested at this point he deserves more of an opportunity. it was music to my ears. We'll see if it plays out.

[winforlose]

Beasley can go. Nowell is ready

While I agree, I think Finch might have some personal beef with Nowell that keeps him off the floor. I don’t know why JMAC, Prince, and Leo have all been given priority over him, but it seems clear Nowell is not long for MN.

Nope. It's easy to think that but the coach post game last night praised Nowell and even suggested at this point he deserves more of an opportunity. it was music to my ears. We'll see if it plays out.

Music to mine too. I really hope it happens. I have been high on Nowell since his G league days when he was shooting lights out from deep.

[minimus]

Beasley can go. Nowell is ready

While I agree, I think Finch might have some personal beef with Nowell that keeps him off the floor. I don’t know why JMAC, Prince, and Leo have all been given priority over him, but it seems clear Nowell is not long for MN.

You can't play guys on minimum contract before guys on big contracts if there is a chance you can trade them. That's why Nowell is behind Prince and Beasley. It might change after trade deadline though

[winforlose]

Beasley can go. Nowell is ready

While I agree, I think Finch might have some personal beef with Nowell that keeps him off the floor. I don’t know why JMAC, Prince, and Leo have all been given priority over him, but it seems clear Nowell is not long for MN.

You can't play guys on minimum contract before guys on big contracts if there is a chance you can trade them. That's why Nowell is behind Prince and Beasley. It might change after trade deadline though

Yes and no. I understand where you are coming from, but Nowell is on a rookie contract which is not the same thing. Developing young talent whether to trade them or keep them is part of the normal course of the NBA season.

You could argue that playing Prince increased his trade value, but I would argue that he is well enough known by now that unless he has a seriously improved season the only place for his value to go is down. Not playing him might diminish him some, but he is an expiring player and we are one of the youngest teams in the league with a bunch of young guys coming up for there first big money contracts. Other teams and GMs do the same thing benching vets in favor of rookies.

Beasley is a very different story and he needed to remain in the rotation. Beasley was a major contributor and is someone we need to get going again not just to make him more of a trade asset, but also because we are in dire need of his production. That said, Nowell should have been before JMAC on the depth chart at PG and Leo should have been ahead of Prince at SF.

[minimus]

While I agree, I think Finch might have some personal beef with Nowell that keeps him off the floor. I don’t know why JMAC, Prince, and Leo have all been given priority over him, but it seems clear Nowell is not long for MN.

You can't play guys on minimum contract before guys on big contracts if there is a chance you can trade them. That's why Nowell is behind Prince and Beasley. It might change after trade deadline though

Yes and no. I understand where you are coming from, but Nowell is on a rookie contract which is not the same thing. Developing young talent whether to trade them or keep them is part of the normal course of the NBA season.

You could argue that playing Prince increased his trade value, but I would argue that he is well enough known by now that unless he has a seriously improved season the only place for his value to go is down. Not playing him might diminish him some, but he is an expiring player and we are one of the youngest teams in the league with a bunch of young guys coming up for there first big money contracts. Other teams and GMs do the same thing benching vets in favor of rookies.

Beasley is a very different story and he needed to remain in the rotation. Beasley was a major contributor and is someone we need to get going again not just to make him more of a trade asset, but also because we are in dire need of his production. That said, Nowell should have been before JMAC on the depth chart at PG and Leo should have been ahead of Prince at SF.

I agree with you. I just wanted to add that is not always between coach and player. You also have GM view of situation.

[shrink]

MIN GETS: McDermott + Thad Young

SAS GETS: Prince + Beasley + two 2nds.

Why for Spurs? Beasley started slowly this season, but is hitting three’s now, (43% in his last four). He’s five years younger than McDermott, and his third year is a team option. Thad Young gets some DNP-CD’s and has politely asked for a trade, so they show him some respect and move him to a past team.

Why for Wolves? McDermott turns 30 in a few weeks, but big enough to play SF/PF vs Beasley at SG. He’s not a good defender - at 6-7, he’s too big and slow to guard SF’s well, and gets pushed around by PF’s. However, I think you can play him with Vando or Jaden because he is a reliable three point shooter. Thad Young we’ve discussed, but he gets us bigger and needs to be guarded at the three point line. Both players are older, but maybe we could use more vet presence.

Thad Young, $14.19
McDermott. $13.75, $13.75, $13.75

Prince. $15.06.
Beasley $14.39, $15.46, $16.52 team option

[KGdaBom]

Have we completed the trade for Ben Simmons yet?

[winforlose]

Have we completed the trade for Ben Simmons yet?

Have they dramatically lowered the asking price yet? Also have we given up on the season yet. The best reason to trade for Ben is to flip him to a team that depends know better and will give us actual talent back.

[Nick K]

MIN GETS: McDermott + Thad Young

SAS GETS: Prince + Beasley + two 2nds.

Why for Spurs? Beasley started slowly this season, but is hitting three’s now, (43% in his last four). He’s five years younger than McDermott, and his third year is a team option. Thad Young gets some DNP-CD’s and has politely asked for a trade, so they show him some respect and move him to a past team.

Why for Wolves? McDermott turns 30 in a few weeks, but big enough to play SF/PF vs Beasley at SG. He’s not a good defender - at 6-7, he’s too big and slow to guard SF’s well, and gets pushed around by PF’s. However, I think you can play him with Vando or Jaden because he is a reliable three point shooter. Thad Young we’ve discussed, but he gets us bigger and needs to be guarded at the three point line. Both players are older, but maybe we could use more vet presence.

Thad Young, $14.19
McDermott. $13.75, $13.75, $13.75

Prince. $15.06.
Beasley $14.39, $15.46, $16.52 team option

I just don't see this one shrink. We can do so much better. Mcbuckets is too slow and a poor defender as you mentioned and Thad Young's wife wants nothing to do with MN. They aren't coming here.

I'm all for moving Beas and Prince too along with Okogie and J Mac but I'd wait to get a fit we need. Obviously we need size and shooting.

[wolves_89]

MIN GETS: McDermott + Thad Young

SAS GETS: Prince + Beasley + two 2nds.

Why for Spurs? Beasley started slowly this season, but is hitting three’s now, (43% in his last four). He’s five years younger than McDermott, and his third year is a team option. Thad Young gets some DNP-CD’s and has politely asked for a trade, so they show him some respect and move him to a past team.

Why for Wolves? McDermott turns 30 in a few weeks, but big enough to play SF/PF vs Beasley at SG. He’s not a good defender - at 6-7, he’s too big and slow to guard SF’s well, and gets pushed around by PF’s. However, I think you can play him with Vando or Jaden because he is a reliable three point shooter. Thad Young we’ve discussed, but he gets us bigger and needs to be guarded at the three point line. Both players are older, but maybe we could use more vet presence.

Thad Young, $14.19
McDermott. $13.75, $13.75, $13.75

Prince. $15.06.
Beasley $14.39, $15.46, $16.52 team option

I think the trade evaluation depends on your opinion of Beasley. Is he the 40+% high volume 3pt shooter he was during his first season and a half with the Wolves, or is he the guy we've seen this year who has struggled to hit shots. Personally, I think Malik will return to being an elite shooter at which point I'd much rather have him than McDermott. I also think Beasley will have more trade value than McDermott in future years.