Butler has requested a trade, the saga continues

[Kobewade11]

MIA deal fell apart once we saw Waiters medical records. MIA media (MIN leaks nothing) likes to say, “Five yard line,” but deals occasionally fall apart once an expensive player’s medical info is released. Waiters is on a $36 million dollar deal, he has not played a single game of pre-season while he rehabs his ankle, and he’s not expected to be ready for the regular season. On top of this, he has not just gotten out of condition, but he showed up after this summer fat.

There is no reason to believe Waiters is healthy and the medical records could say that he’s never going to get there. With a three year deal with all that money, bad news on Waiters health could certainly have wrecked that deal. In fact, the rumor was that Thibs would still have done the deal with Waiters, if Riley had included another pick.

Way off here trying to implicate Miami media for this mess. Heat are the most tight lipped organization in the NBA.

[shrink]

MIA deal fell apart once we saw Waiters medical records. MIA media (MIN leaks nothing) likes to say, “Five yard line,” but deals occasionally fall apart once an expensive player’s medical info is released. Waiters is on a $36 million dollar deal, he has not played a single game of pre-season while he rehabs his ankle, and he’s not expected to be ready for the regular season. On top of this, he has not just gotten out of condition, but he showed up after this summer fat.

There is no reason to believe Waiters is healthy and the medical records could say that he’s never going to get there. With a three year deal with all that money, bad news on Waiters health could certainly have wrecked that deal. In fact, the rumor was that Thibs would still have done the deal with Waiters, if Riley had included another pick.

Way off here trying to implicate Miami media for this mess. Heat are the most tight lipped organization in the NBA.

I keep hearing that from Heat fans, but we certainly have 3-4 sources that have MIA links. Do you think the Riley quote, “Get your house in order!” was leaked from the Heat, or from the Wolves? You also have people posting on the MIA board from sources, including three of MIA’s “final offers.” We heard about Riley slamming down the phone and swearing, though he denies it now - where do you think that story emerges - Heat or Wolves? ESPN’s Jorge Sedano presents Heat stuff from his sources when he previously worked at the Miami Herald. The most recent framing is that deals automatically get done if teams exchange medicals records, and that medical records haven’t killed deals in the past, so it must mean Thibs is not dealing in good faith. Which side leaks something like that?

I’m not even saying it’s wrong for a team to make leaks to frame the conversation and try to exert pressure, and local MIN media has been very up front for two years about how Thibs and Layden’s stonewalling can hurt them by preventing them from shaping the argument. And I’m aware Jimmy’s camp leaks stuff too. However, after this continuing episode, even an ardent fan can’t believe the Heat have been tight-lipped.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

The Smith situation is completely different. He was offering to sign one year deals well below market value until Minny got bird rights with the promise of a mega deal down the line.

Minny can go ahead and suggest they will max Butler, no one will blink.

[Dewey]

MIA deal fell apart once we saw Waiters medical records. MIA media (MIN leaks nothing) likes to say, “Five yard line,” but deals occasionally fall apart once an expensive player’s medical info is released. Waiters is on a $36 million dollar deal, he has not played a single game of pre-season while he rehabs his ankle, and he’s not expected to be ready for the regular season. On top of this, he has not just gotten out of condition, but he showed up after this summer fat.

There is no reason to believe Waiters is healthy and the medical records could say that he’s never going to get there. With a three year deal with all that money, bad news on Waiters health could certainly have wrecked that deal. In fact, the rumor was that Thibs would still have done the deal with Waiters, if Riley had included another pick.

Way off here trying to implicate Miami media for this mess. Heat are the most tight lipped organization in the NBA.

I dont think their leaks were coming through their iips ... ... they were certainly apart of the action trying to create enough drama in hopes to fleece MN into taking Waiters. Then came the wall and the Wolves called it off when miami would not add any assets of value for compensation.

[wesleyt95]

With Taj off the books after this season and perhaps we package Gorgui w/ a 1st if need be, won't that be more than enough space to sign Jimmy to a max? I dont see what the hooplah is about, we need to get out there and get some wins and after getting torched by Harden in the playoffs you'd think Jimmy would look at the man in the mirror instead of blaming Wiggins and Towns. Wigs showed up to play in the playoffs...

[shrink]

With Taj off the books after this season and perhaps we package Gorgui w/ a 1st if need be, won't that be more than enough space to sign Jimmy to a max?

We can sign Jimmy to the max regardless of who is on our team because we can use his Bird rights to sign him to whatever deal we want. We don’t need cap space to sign him. The question would be the lux, and Taylor has shown in the past he will go into the lux for a winner.

Now, whether Jimmy is willing to believe that offer is out there is another thing. He was threatened by CHI’s front office, and he has not grown up in a situation with a lot of trust, Jimmy refused to sign the extension, holding out for a bigger max deal. Unfortunately, he wants MIN to give up starters and assets to clear $30 mil under the cap immediately, so he doesn’t risk that contract. That request isn’t fair, especially if Jimmy didn’t say anything when we spent that money for a season of production from Teague and Taj Gibson,

[KGdaBom]

Teams and players are not allowed to negotiate terms of a new contract (other than an extension) prior to the July 1 when the player becomes a free agent. Teams are required to notify the league office immediately upon reaching any verbal or written agreement with a player, and all contracts must be filed with the league office within 48 hours of signing. If a team makes an agreement with a player that is not reported to the league, the penalties can be even harsher than those described in question number 29. Such a violation is considered by the league to be among the most serious a team can commit. Again, the league will investigate any allegations of wrongdoing. A violation can result in a fine up to $6 million, forfeiture of draft picks, voiding the player's contract(s) (see question number 112), and/or the suspension for up to one year of any team personnel who were involved. In addition, the player himself can be fined up to $250,000, and prohibited from ever signing with that team.

This is what happened in 2000 with Joe Smith and the Minnesota Timberwolves. Smith left the Philadelphia 76ers in 1999 (following the lockout) to sign with the Timberwolves for their $1.75 million Mid-Level exception. They made an under-the-table agreement that Smith would play under three consecutive one-year contracts at below market value, and the Timberwolves would reward him by using their Bird rights to sign him to a huge contract beginning with the 2001-02 season. Unfortunately, they reduced this agreement to writing, and the written agreement eventually found its way into the league's hands.

It had long been rumored that such under-the-table agreements existed, but this was the first time the league had hard evidence in the form of a signed contract. The league responded by fining the team the maximum (at the time) $3.5 million, taking away their next five draft picks (two were later returned), and voiding Smith's then-current contract. Owner Glen Taylor and GM Kevin McHale also agreed to leaves of absence (in lieu of suspensions, at which time the fifth draft pick was returned). Most interestingly, the league also voided Smith's two previous, already-completed contracts. This essentially stripped the Timberwolves of any Bird rights to Smith, preventing them from re-signing Smith for any salary above the minimum (they had already used their other exceptions). Smith left Minnesota and signed with the Detroit Pistons, but returned to Minnesota in 2001.

Claims that a team violated the "Undisclosed Agreements" rule go before the league's system arbitrator, although the Commissioner has the authority to impose penalties of up to $250,000 without having the case heard by the arbitrator.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q30

Thank you very much Klomp. If I'm understanding this correctly no team is legally allowed to talk with Jimmy about a new contract for next year. Am I understanding this correctly?

[Dewey]

With Taj off the books after this season and perhaps we package Gorgui w/ a 1st if need be, won't that be more than enough space to sign Jimmy to a max? I dont see what the hooplah is about, we need to get out there and get some wins and after getting torched by Harden in the playoffs you'd think Jimmy would look at the man in the mirror instead of blaming Wiggins and Towns. Wigs showed up to play in the playoffs...

I agree ... as much as I have belittled wiggins efforts at times, he did step it up in the playoffs IMO. KAT was the one who was owmed so we could cut the canadian thin man some slack.

[KGdaBom]

The Smith situation is completely different. He was offering to sign one year deals well below market value until Minny got bird rights with the promise of a mega deal down the line.

Minny can go ahead and suggest they will max Butler, no one will blink.

Read what Klomp wrote regarding this. To talk about future contracts that the player isn't currently eligible for is the most serious of violations and may be punished with massive penalties.

[Klomp]

The Smith situation is completely different. He was offering to sign one year deals well below market value until Minny got bird rights with the promise of a mega deal down the line.

Minny can go ahead and suggest they will max Butler, no one will blink.

Read what Klomp wrote regarding this. To talk about future contracts that the player isn't currently eligible for is the most serious of violations and may be punished with massive penalties.

It's also difficult to prove unless you have it in writing somewhere. That's where the Smith saga went haywire.

[TruthSerum]

My take would be if you stay within reason and keep the league informed you will have no issues. Teams can plan out a year in advance. Getting an informal agreement could mean the difference between keeping Jimmy as opposed to dumping him and the league understands this. The Joe Smith thing was blatant and ridiculous on so many levels. Glen had to be dealt with.

[Mattya]

MIA deal fell apart once we saw Waiters medical records. MIA media (MIN leaks nothing) likes to say, “Five yard line,” but deals occasionally fall apart once an expensive player’s medical info is released. Waiters is on a $36 million dollar deal, he has not played a single game of pre-season while he rehabs his ankle, and he’s not expected to be ready for the regular season. On top of this, he has not just gotten out of condition, but he showed up after this summer fat.

There is no reason to believe Waiters is healthy and the medical records could say that he’s never going to get there. With a three year deal with all that money, bad news on Waiters health could certainly have wrecked that deal. In fact, the rumor was that Thibs would still have done the deal with Waiters, if Riley had included another pick.

Way off here trying to implicate Miami media for this mess. Heat are the most tight lipped organization in the NBA.

Butler is leaking almost everything that is in the media. That should be obvious to everyone.

[shrink]

MIA deal fell apart once we saw Waiters medical records. MIA media (MIN leaks nothing) likes to say, “Five yard line,” but deals occasionally fall apart once an expensive player’s medical info is released. Waiters is on a $36 million dollar deal, he has not played a single game of pre-season while he rehabs his ankle, and he’s not expected to be ready for the regular season. On top of this, he has not just gotten out of condition, but he showed up after this summer fat.

There is no reason to believe Waiters is healthy and the medical records could say that he’s never going to get there. With a three year deal with all that money, bad news on Waiters health could certainly have wrecked that deal. In fact, the rumor was that Thibs would still have done the deal with Waiters, if Riley had included another pick.

Way off here trying to implicate Miami media for this mess. Heat are the most tight lipped organization in the NBA.

Butler is leaking almost everything that is in the media. That should be obvious to everyone.

I’m sure Butler and his people are leaking what they know, and Doogie has reported that. However, he only knows what people tell him - that’s a leak right there. Much of this info is coming from inside the Heat front office, and the info that doesn’t, comes out with a Heat spin, often from sources that have ties to the Heat.

[Dewey]

The Smith situation is completely different. He was offering to sign one year deals well below market value until Minny got bird rights with the promise of a mega deal down the line.

Minny can go ahead and suggest they will max Butler, no one will blink.

Read what Klomp wrote regarding this. To talk about future contracts that the player isn't currently eligible for is the most serious of violations and may be punished with massive penalties.

owmers easily become vicims ... meanwhile players in all likeliness violate these rules all the time IMO as they constantly determine who and where to recruit their mega teams a year or two ahead.

[Worm Guts]

The Smith situation is completely different. He was offering to sign one year deals well below market value until Minny got bird rights with the promise of a mega deal down the line.

Minny can go ahead and suggest they will max Butler, no one will blink.

Read what Klomp wrote regarding this. To talk about future contracts that the player isn't currently eligible for is the most serious of violations and may be punished with massive penalties.

That's not exactly what it says. It says coming to an agreement and not reporting it to the league is one of the most serious violations.

[shrink]

For those that may not be aware, making a Butler trade becomes considerably harder once the season begins.

On that day, teams are locked down to their 15-player limits (plus two two-way deals). You can’t make a legal trade bringing in more players than you have slots for going out - even if you intend on dropping one of the players you receive.

Since Jimmy is a $20 mil contract himself, it will likely take more than one player to make a package that salary matches.

The Wolves already have (edit) 14-players under contract (once Jonathan Stark is released), and two two-way players, CJ Williams and Jared Terrell.

[Klomp]

For those that may not be aware, making a Butler trade becomes considerably harder once the season begins.

On that day, teams are locked down to their 15-player limits (plus two two-way deals). You can’t make a legal trade bringing in more players than you have slots for going out - even if you intend on dropping one of the players you receive.

Since Jimmy is a $20 mil contract himself, it will likely take more than one player to make a package that salary matches.

The Wolves already have 15-players under contract (once Jonathan Stark is released), and two two-way players, CJ Williams and Jared Terrell).

I think you are off by one, because we should have one open roster spot.

[AirP.]

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[KGdaBom]

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Nice to hear. This must mean Butler plays the SF and Wiggins moves to the SG right? Butler is way bigger than Wiggins.

[Klomp]

Nice to hear. This must mean Butler plays the SF and Wiggins moves to the SG right? Butler is way bigger than Wiggins.

Defining the SG and SF means very little.