College players thread/ Draft Related thread

Zeitgeister · Post #841 » by **Zeitgeister** » Mon Mar 9, 2009 10:28 pm

Jonathan Watters -

I think Griffin will be a very good player in the NBA, but we have to move one of Jefferson, Griffin, or Love if we pick him don't we? If it came down to that I would look to move Kevin Love, but I would consider deals for any of the three players if the right one came along.

PeeDee · Post #842 » by **PeeDee** » Mon Mar 9, 2009 10:35 pm

I'm not convinced that Griffin and Jefferson would make any better of a frontcourt than the Jefferson/Love frontcourt a lot of people around here often lambast.

Jonathan Watters · Post #843 » by **Jonathan Watters** » Mon Mar 9, 2009 10:36 pm

The only player that could potentially be worth passing on Griffin for would be Rubio, but I really can't comment on that. I haven't seen him enough. What I do know is that if we passed on Griffin to take any other guard, it would quickly become the newest Timberwolf draft travesty. He's heads and tails above the other prospects in this draft.

The position we were in last year lent itself to drafting for need. There were multiple players at multiple positions that all looked like immediate impact types. We went and took a player at the one position we had absolutely no use for. Now we are forced into draft for need...

It shouldn't be a problem this season, given that we are unlikely to win the lottery and Griffin is extremely likely to go #1, so this is all a moot point.

Krapinsky · Post #844 » by **Krapinsky** » Mon Mar 9, 2009 10:48 pm

Jonathan Watters wrote:The only player that could potentially be worth passing on Griffin for would be Rubio, but I really can't comment on that. I haven't seen him enough. What I do know is that if we passed on Griffin to take any other guard, it would quickly become the newest Timberwolf draft travesty. He's heads and tails above the other prospects in this draft.

The position we were in last year lent itself to drafting for need. There were multiple players at multiple positions that all looked like immediate impact types. We went and took a player at the one position we had absolutely no use for.

It shouldn't be a problem this season, given that we are unlikely to win the lottery and Griffin is extremely likely to go #1, so this is all a moot point.

That's a moot point. I don't think anyone wants/thinks/projects that to happen.

The main issue is Rubio vs. Griffin. For just about any team in the NBA the decision would be clear, take Griffin. For the Wolves, who host two PFs as their two best players, Rubio becomes worth considering. Nobody knows how good this kid will be, and few have seen him play, so most of the love on this board is completely subjective. If his name was Vladimir Nadastrovic, my guess is that everyone's subjective view of him would drop a ton. Nonetheless, if he is truly as good as scouts have led us to believe, he surely deserves to be in the discussion for the Wolves at #1. My only issue would be the depth at the PG position the rest of the draft. If we take Rubio #1, but then Lawson is on the board with the Miami pick, I would regret not taking Griffin as the best player available.

PeeDee · Post #845 » by **PeeDee** » Mon Mar 9, 2009 11:42 pm

Dr.Krapinsky wrote:My only issue would be the depth at the PG position the rest of the draft. If we take Rubio #1, but then Lawson is on the board with the Miami pick, I would regret not taking Griffin as the best player available.

I doubt it. This is a very wing heavy draft too, not just pg. I wouldn't be shocked to see someone like Earl Clark slip to Miami's pick.

So then the question would be: do you like Griffin/Lawson better than Rubio/Clark (or whatever value pick is there)?

Krapinsky · Post #846 » by **Krapinsky** » Mon Mar 9, 2009 11:55 pm

PeeDee wrote:
Dr.Krapinsky wrote:My only issue would be the depth at the PG position the rest of the draft. If we take Rubio #1, but then Lawson is on the board with the Miami pick, I would regret not taking Griffin as the best player available.

I doubt it. This is a very wing heavy draft too, not just pg. I wouldn't be shocked to see someone like Earl Clark slip to Miami's pick.

So then the question would be: do you like Griffin/Lawson better than Rubio/Clark (or whatever value pick is there)?

Disagree. The wing talent is not the same. I see Clark falling that far as more of a long shot since he is one of the top two SF's (or projected NBA SFs) in the draft-- w/ AFA. Lawson has possibly Teague/Curry/Holiday/Rubio/Jennings all ahead of him in 2009 mocks that include those players. You could include Flynn in that group if you're to believe Chad Ford.

Jonathan Watters · Post #847 » by **Jonathan Watters** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:08 am

Still waiting for Devilz to explain Blake Griffin's poor BBIQ...

Krapinsky · Post #848 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:11 am

I think Devilz is just going by clips of Griffin while he had post concussion syndrome and his eyes were all cross eyed.

PeeDee · Post #849 » by **PeeDee** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:16 am

Devilz was probably talking about Kathy Griffin, who by all accounts does have terrible BBIQ.

PeeDee · Post #850 » by **PeeDee** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:21 am

As for the wings, you have Harden, DeRozan, Warren, Evans, Turner, Henderson, Smith, Clark, Summers, Williams

I think that's every bit as deep as the pg crop. You toss them all together and throw in the bigs, someone of value is going to be there at the Miami pick regardless of position.

Krapinsky · Post #851 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:35 am

PeeDee wrote:As for the wings, you have Harden, DeRozan, Warren, Evans, Turner, Henderson, Smith, Clark, Summers, Williams

I think that's every bit as deep as the pg crop. You toss them all together and throw in the bigs, someone of value is going to be there at the Miami pick regardless of position.

I don't think we'll agree here. DeRozan/Summers/Williams all look like they could slip to the second round to me. Boston pick, maybe. Personally my favorite of that group is Young, who you didn't even mention. Clark, to me, is clearly ahead of all those you named, sans Harden and Evans-- who are back court players.

For the sake of discussion, if I had to choose b/t Griffin/Lawson and Clark/Rubio, I would be at a loss. It depends what we could turn around Grffin for. If we could get Jeff Green and the #6 or so pick from TFKAS, then I would probably take Griffin.

PeeDee · Post #852 » by **PeeDee** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:46 am

In that case, lets just hope we're in the position to have to make those decisions.

invno1 · Post #853 » by **invno1** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:57 am

Dr. You nailed it.....If Timberwolves are fortunate enough to get the #1......Jeff Green allows Timberwolves not to go having to pay the big bucks for Williams either.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #854 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:00 pm

Jonathan Watters wrote:Still waiting for Devilz to explain Blake Griffin's poor BBIQ...

I didn't say "poor BBIQ" I said "questionable BBIQ", meaning you spend your whole life using strength and athleticism as your #1 weapon over your competition; can he adjust in the NBA and develop his 15-18' jump shot and look to pass when the double team comes?

I'm sorry that everything people says appalls you, I really am. Please accept my apology.

Post #855 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:12 pm

Griffin can handle and pass, he's more than just some brute in the post.

Post #856 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:19 pm

Jonathan Watters wrote:
I'm arguing against the person who actually thinks they can say the things you said above and get away with it.

If you're going to crusade against homers and people who talk out of their butts, devils should be the least of your targets.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #857 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:56 pm

Worm Guts wrote:Griffin can handle and pass, he's more than just some brute in the post.

but that's his bread and butter - his ability to out-brute people in the paint. I don't think I'm throwing out accusations, I think it's a reasonable question to ask of Griffin - can he make his game more cerebral at the NBA level to expand his game? Especially since he's going to be able to have success if he mainly relies on his athletic gifts, so he may not necessarily see reason to expand his game.

So far he hasn't been able to use his great athletic abilities to be as dominating defensively as he is offensively (which should have been the #1 most obvious priority thus far and he hasn't really come close to that) so why should I believe he's going to develop an all around game as a pro that should be expected of a #1 pick?

Might be a great player and an all star and I'd take him over anyone not named Ricky Rubio. I'd take Michael Beasley in this draft over anyone not named Ricky Rubio too.

john2jer · Post #858 » by **john2jer** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:02 pm

In case it hasn't been mentioned recently, Ricky Rubio passes the highly scientific pronunciation test, therefore I predict multiple MVPs and at least a dozen all-star games.

Jonathan Watters · Post #859 » by **Jonathan Watters** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:19 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
Jonathan Watters wrote:
I'm arguing against the person who actually thinks they can say the things you said above and get away with it.

If you're going to crusade against homers and people who talk out of their butts, devils should be the least of your targets.

Well, it really isn't anything personal against the guy. Its what he said. And what he said isn't really defensible.

deeney0 · Post #860 » by **deeney0** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:20 pm

Devilzsidewalk wrote:Might be a great player and an all star and I'd take him over anyone not named Ricky Rubio. I'd take Michael Beasley in this draft over anyone not named Ricky Rubio too.

I think I'd take anyone from the top 10 of 2008 over anyone not named Ricky Rubio in this draft.