The Rob Dillingham Thread

[winforlose]

Dillingham needs the ball in his hands to create for himself and others. He's a very talented starting caliber point guard. But his fit alongside Ant won't allow him to thrive with the Wolves. That's why it was a bad pick regardless of his talent. Had he landed on a team that needed a starting PG and allowed the offense to flow through him he might put up Trae Young type production. But that is Ant's role and that isn't going to change. This was a disastrous decision to use assets to trade up for him and take him at #8 overall since this was obvious. That future pick and swap WILL add insult to injury.

What did we trade a FRP 20 years from now and a pick swap 30 years from now for a mid lottery pick. I'll do that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. In hindsight if the Wolves don't give him a chance then maybe it was a mistake. The KAT trade bringing DiVincenzo in derailed Dilly's chances this last season. Hopefully this year he can be valuable.

Sorry dude, but this is BAD TAKE! We have very limited draft assets both in the first and second round to trade. We already owed a swap in 26 along with our unprotected 25 and 27, and a top 5 protected 29. Giving up an unprotected first and a top 1 protected swap to acquire a player not good enough to crack the rotation (despite being drafted number 8th overall,) has a massive opportunity cost. It also tied up key money and a roster spot that could have been used to help balance the roster. If Dilly busts the opportunity cost is a lot more than you claim, and if he succeeds that doesn’t retroactively make the trade less expensive for us.

[KGdaBom]

Dillingham needs the ball in his hands to create for himself and others. He's a very talented starting caliber point guard. But his fit alongside Ant won't allow him to thrive with the Wolves. That's why it was a bad pick regardless of his talent. Had he landed on a team that needed a starting PG and allowed the offense to flow through him he might put up Trae Young type production. But that is Ant's role and that isn't going to change. This was a disastrous decision to use assets to trade up for him and take him at #8 overall since this was obvious. That future pick and swap WILL add insult to injury.

What did we trade a FRP 20 years from now and a pick swap 30 years from now for a mid lottery pick. I'll do that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. In hindsight if the Wolves don't give him a chance then maybe it was a mistake. The KAT trade bringing DiVincenzo in derailed Dilly's chances this last season. Hopefully this year he can be valuable.

Sorry dude, but this is BAD TAKE! We have very limited draft assets both in the first and second round to trade. We already owed a swap in 26 along with our unprotected 25 and 27, and a top 5 protected 29. Giving up an unprotected first and a top 1 protected swap to acquire a player not good enough to crack the rotation (despite being drafted number 8th overall,) has a massive opportunity cost. It also tied up key money and a roster spot that could have been used to help balance the roster. If Dilly busts the opportunity cost is a lot more than you claim, and if he succeeds that doesn’t retroactively make the trade less expensive for us.

It's a GOOD TAKE!!!Of course if he sucks the trade sucks. Hindsight is 20/20. A top 8 pick in the draft is a huge asset. A swap is just a swap. It might not cost anything. An average first round pick is #16. But trading assets that far into future for a player that should be a large contributor for 6 years before the pick is conveyed is a no brainer. Hopefully Dilly turns into that large contributor. If Finch gave him the time of day this year he might already be on his way to a Lou Williams type career. Hopefully he hasn't lost confidence and will come up big in the 25-26 season.

[winforlose]

What did we trade a FRP 20 years from now and a pick swap 30 years from now for a mid lottery pick. I'll do that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. In hindsight if the Wolves don't give him a chance then maybe it was a mistake. The KAT trade bringing DiVincenzo in derailed Dilly's chances this last season. Hopefully this year he can be valuable.

Sorry dude, but this is BAD TAKE! We have very limited draft assets both in the first and second round to trade. We already owed a swap in 26 along with our unprotected 25 and 27, and a top 5 protected 29. Giving up an unprotected first and a top 1 protected swap to acquire a player not good enough to crack the rotation (despite being drafted number 8th overall,) has a massive opportunity cost. It also tied up key money and a roster spot that could have been used to help balance the roster. If Dilly busts the opportunity cost is a lot more than you claim, and if he succeeds that doesn’t retroactively make the trade less expensive for us.

It's a GOOD TAKE!!!Of course if he sucks the trade sucks. Hindsight is 20/20. A top 8 pick in the draft is a huge asset. A swap is just a swap. It might not cost anything. An average first round pick is #16. But trading assets that far into future for a player that should be a large contributor for 6 years before the pick is conveyed is a no brainer. Hopefully Dilly turns into that large contributor. If Finch gave him the time of day this year he might already be on his way to a Lou Williams type career. Hopefully he hasn't lost confidence and will come up big in the 25-26 season.

Picks for a good team become more valuable the further in the future they are. This year our pick was 21. Wait 7 years and we could suck. You never know. Dilly needs to deliver.

[KGdaBom]

Sorry dude, but this is BAD TAKE! We have very limited draft assets both in the first and second round to trade. We already owed a swap in 26 along with our unprotected 25 and 27, and a top 5 protected 29. Giving up an unprotected first and a top 1 protected swap to acquire a player not good enough to crack the rotation (despite being drafted number 8th overall,) has a massive opportunity cost. It also tied up key money and a roster spot that could have been used to help balance the roster. If Dilly busts the opportunity cost is a lot more than you claim, and if he succeeds that doesn’t retroactively make the trade less expensive for us.

It's a GOOD TAKE!!!Of course if he sucks the trade sucks. Hindsight is 20/20. A top 8 pick in the draft is a huge asset. A swap is just a swap. It might not cost anything. An average first round pick is #16. But trading assets that far into future for a player that should be a large contributor for 6 years before the pick is conveyed is a no brainer. Hopefully Dilly turns into that large contributor. If Finch gave him the time of day this year he might already be on his way to a Lou Williams type career. Hopefully he hasn't lost confidence and will come up big in the 25-26 season.

Picks for a good team become more valuable the further in the future they are. This year our pick was 21. Wait 7 years and we could suck. You never know. Dilly needs to deliver.

Yes Dilly does need to deliver. Finch needs to build him up. Develop him. That's an important part of coaching. Finch's lack of developing young players is my biggest gripe with him. If we do suck when the pick or picks convey I won't give a rat's ass if we've won a title or two between now and then.

[winforlose]

It's a GOOD TAKE!!!Of course if he sucks the trade sucks. Hindsight is 20/20. A top 8 pick in the draft is a huge asset. A swap is just a swap. It might not cost anything. An average first round pick is #16. But trading assets that far into future for a player that should be a large contributor for 6 years before the pick is conveyed is a no brainer. Hopefully Dilly turns into that large contributor. If Finch gave him the time of day this year he might already be on his way to a Lou Williams type career. Hopefully he hasn't lost confidence and will come up big in the 25-26 season.

Picks for a good team become more valuable the further in the future they are. This year our pick was 21. Wait 7 years and we could suck. You never know. Dilly needs to deliver.

Yes Dilly does need to deliver. Finch needs to build him up. Develop him. That's an important part of coaching. Finch's lack of developing young players is my biggest gripe with him. If we do suck when the pick or picks convey I won't give a rat's ass if we've won a title or two between now and then.

Chris Finch had Minott and Dilly so checked out that they might as well have not been on the team. He has so prioritized Luka Garza (more of a mascot than a player,) over Leonard Miller that Miller will almost definitely leave. He started to play games with Clark’s minutes to undermine his confidence right before the playoffs started. The only player he did okay by is TSJ, and that was after not finding him minutes during the first half of the season. Finch is not just a bad player development coach, he is on par with the worst imaginable. Jaden has played almost his entire career under Finch and you can see how much of his offensive game is stymied for it. Likewise Ant continues to make the same hero ball mistakes all these years later.

[jpatrick]

It's a GOOD TAKE!!!Of course if he sucks the trade sucks. Hindsight is 20/20. A top 8 pick in the draft is a huge asset. A swap is just a swap. It might not cost anything. An average first round pick is #16. But trading assets that far into future for a player that should be a large contributor for 6 years before the pick is conveyed is a no brainer. Hopefully Dilly turns into that large contributor. If Finch gave him the time of day this year he might already be on his way to a Lou Williams type career. Hopefully he hasn't lost confidence and will come up big in the 25-26 season.

Picks for a good team become more valuable the further in the future they are. This year our pick was 21. Wait 7 years and we could suck. You never know. Dilly needs to deliver.

Yes Dilly does need to deliver. Finch needs to build him up. Develop him. That's an important part of coaching. Finch's lack of developing young players is my biggest gripe with him. If we do suck when the pick or picks convey I won't give a rat's ass if we've won a title or two between now and then.

To be fair, it was under Finch that Ant, McDaniels, and Naz all developed. Under Finch, NAW went from a salary filler in a trade about to be bounced from the league to coveted free agent. We want him to play the young guys, but they are not as good as our top 8-9. I don’t really blame him for making rookies earn minutes, and at times, Dilly, TSJ, Minnott, and Clark all got minutes. None sustained good play, even in limited minutes, to keep those minutes.

As was said, my problem with the Dilly trade is I don’t believe in Dilly. If I saw him as a sure starter, no problem giving away our last valuable trade assets. I don’t. That’s why I have no problems moving him this offseason in a Durant trade. Our assets are low though. Our 2032 pick is now frozen because of being over the second apron, and I believe if we’re over the second apron two out of the next four years, it drops to the last pick in the first round even if we finish with the worst record.

[moss_is_1]

Chris Finch had Minott and Dilly so checked out that they might as well have not been on the team. He has so prioritized Luka Garza (more of a mascot than a player,) over Leonard Miller that Miller will almost definitely leave. He started to play games with Clark’s minutes to undermine his confidence right before the playoffs started. The only player he did okay by is TSJ, and that was after not finding him minutes during the first half of the season. Finch is not just a bad player development coach, he is on par with the worst imaginable. Jaden has played almost his entire career under Finch and you can see how much of his offensive game is stymied for it. Likewise Ant continues to make the same hero ball mistakes all these years later.

Damn. Let the Finch hate just cloud your judgements some more. Minott had his opportunity in the beginning of the year and he blew it. Missing defensive rotations and not hitting his shots. Some people use that to motivate them to get better, so we'll see.

When the hell did Garza get any meaningful playing time on this team, or any playing time at the expense of Miller?? We knew Miller was pretty raw and unorthodox when he was drafted. Hes still pretty rail thin and has a goofy jumper. Finch has his warts but these are just made up reasons to hate on him.

Fact is we're a contender who needs to win games, while having 8 starter level players. Then we had a trade right before the season so Finch had to play them together to learn how to play together quickly. In his end of year presser he mentioned wanting to get Jaden more involved, then the trade happened and that sort of took a backseat to getting Randle and Ddv incorporated.

[BlacJacMac]

To be fair, it was under Finch that Ant, McDaniels, and Naz all developed. Under Finch, NAW went from a salary filler in a trade about to be bounced from the league to coveted free agent.

To some posters, if players don't reach the absolute pinnacle of their potential by age 25, its a failure in development.

[winforlose]

Chris Finch had Minott and Dilly so checked out that they might as well have not been on the team. He has so prioritized Luka Garza (more of a mascot than a player,) over Leonard Miller that Miller will almost definitely leave. He started to play games with Clark’s minutes to undermine his confidence right before the playoffs started. The only player he did okay by is TSJ, and that was after not finding him minutes during the first half of the season. Finch is not just a bad player development coach, he is on par with the worst imaginable. Jaden has played almost his entire career under Finch and you can see how much of his offensive game is stymied for it. Likewise Ant continues to make the same hero ball mistakes all these years later.

Damn. Let the Finch hate just cloud your judgements some more. Minott had his opportunity in the beginning of the year and he blew it. Missing defensive rotations and not hitting his shots. Some people use that to motivate them to get better, so we'll see.

When the hell did Garza get any meaningful playing time on this team, or any playing time at the expense of Miller?? We knew Miller was pretty raw and unorthodox when he was drafted. Hes still pretty rail thin and has a goofy jumper. Finch has his warts but these are just made up reasons to hate on him.

Fact is we're a contender who needs to win games, while having 8 starter level players. Then we had a trade right before the season so Finch had to play them together to learn how to play together quickly. In his end of year presser he mentioned wanting to get Jaden more involved, then the trade happened and that sort of took a backseat to getting Randle and Ddv incorporated.

Let’s break this down.

1. Miller could have and should have played during the injuries to Randle and Rudy. There was a window for real minutes. Garza was sucking (playing some of the worst ball imaginable,) and still Finch wouldn’t give Miller a single competitive minute.

2. Minott was playing well. He had a high plus minus, was shooting well enough, and contributing. Then Finch went and messed with his rotation down to a .5 and that is when Minott started to struggle. The same thing happened to Clark and TSJ when their minutes got cut. This was a major talking point around the team for much of the year. .5 rotation spots undermine player confidence.

3. Mike Conley was not an 8th starter this season. He sucked for much of it. He got better during the very end and into the playoffs, where his play was very up and down. DDV was awful the first half and well below starter level in the playoffs. For everyone one good playoff game DDV had, he had 3 abysmal games. NAW started red hot, then nose dived during the middle of the season. He started to recover before the playoffs and was very up and down. Rudy had a pedestrian season by his standards but for 3 weeks of dominance towards the end of the season. He also had a few marvelous playoff games. Other than that, he was not a truly functional championship quality C.

4. Good teams like OKC and Houston found minutes for their young players, and managed to win. We should have traded Randle for a PG and backup C at the deadline. We lacked roster balance last year and likely will this year. This is more on TC than Finch. But Finch did not play the young guys so we could not move them or try to promote them to 9th man in the rotation.

[winforlose]

Picks for a good team become more valuable the further in the future they are. This year our pick was 21. Wait 7 years and we could suck. You never know. Dilly needs to deliver.

Yes Dilly does need to deliver. Finch needs to build him up. Develop him. That's an important part of coaching. Finch's lack of developing young players is my biggest gripe with him. If we do suck when the pick or picks convey I won't give a rat's ass if we've won a title or two between now and then.

To be fair, it was under Finch that Ant, McDaniels, and Naz all developed. Under Finch, NAW went from a salary filler in a trade about to be bounced from the league to coveted free agent. We want him to play the young guys, but they are not as good as our top 8-9. I don’t really blame him for making rookies earn minutes, and at times, Dilly, TSJ, Minnott, and Clark all got minutes. None sustained good play, even in limited minutes, to keep those minutes.

As was said, my problem with the Dilly trade is I don’t believe in Dilly. If I saw him as a sure starter, no problem giving away our last valuable trade assets. I don’t. That’s why I have no problems moving him this offseason in a Durant trade. Our assets are low though. Our 2032 pick is now frozen because of being over the second apron, and I believe if we’re over the second apron two out of the next four years, it drops to the last pick in the first round even if we finish with the worst record.

Ant had the natural talent to become Ant either way. He takes most of his leaps during the offseason, (3 point shooting as an easy example.) Ant still makes the same mistakes with hero ball that he made in years 1 and 2. McDaniels still doesn’t shoot enough and isn’t integrated enough into the offense. Naz’s defensive issues and foul issues seem as consistent as well, but to be honest I would need to dig into Naz more. I know Naz plays better with more minutes and consistent starting role, and Finch prioritized Randle over Naz. A decision that paid off in series one and two. At the same time, Randle is nearing the end of his prime whereas Naz is starting his. Making Randle the priority over a free agent Naz is only okay if Naz stays. If not that is a fireable offense for both Finch and TC.

[BlacJacMac]

We should have traded Randle for a PG and backup C at the deadline. We lacked roster balance last year and likely will this year. This is more on TC than Finch. But Finch did not play the young guys so we could not move them or try to promote them to 9th man in the rotation.

Randle was injured at the deadline and didn't start playing really good ball until he came back.

It would've been the very definition of "selling low".

[winforlose]

We should have traded Randle for a PG and backup C at the deadline. We lacked roster balance last year and likely will this year. This is more on TC than Finch. But Finch did not play the young guys so we could not move them or try to promote them to 9th man in the rotation.

Randle was injured at the deadline and didn't start playing really good ball until he came back.

It would've been the very definition of "selling low".

Randle was also on going into a player option/expiring, his value was not gonna be determined by his play. In your opinion has Randle’s value risen to the point now where trading him is selling high?

[BlacJacMac]

We should have traded Randle for a PG and backup C at the deadline. We lacked roster balance last year and likely will this year. This is more on TC than Finch. But Finch did not play the young guys so we could not move them or try to promote them to 9th man in the rotation.

Randle was injured at the deadline and didn't start playing really good ball until he came back.

It would've been the very definition of "selling low".

Randle was also on going into a player option/expiring, his value was not gonna be determined by his play. In your opinion has Randle’s value risen to the point now where trading him is selling high?

A hell of a lot higher than it was at the deadline.

[KGdaBom]

Picks for a good team become more valuable the further in the future they are. This year our pick was 21. Wait 7 years and we could suck. You never know. Dilly needs to deliver.

Yes Dilly does need to deliver. Finch needs to build him up. Develop him. That's an important part of coaching. Finch's lack of developing young players is my biggest gripe with him. If we do suck when the pick or picks convey I won't give a rat's ass if we've won a title or two between now and then.

Chris Finch had Minott and Dilly so checked out that they might as well have not been on the team. He has so prioritized Luka Garza (more of a mascot than a player,) over Leonard Miller that Miller will almost definitely leave. He started to play games with Clark’s minutes to undermine his confidence right before the playoffs started. The only player he did okay by is TSJ, and that was after not finding him minutes during the first half of the season. Finch is not just a bad player development coach, he is on par with the worst imaginable. Jaden has played almost his entire career under Finch and you can see how much of his offensive game is stymied for it. Likewise Ant continues to make the same hero ball mistakes all these years later.

I know you hate Finch, but I take the good with the bad and consider him better than average. Player development meaning lack thereof is his biggest weakness. However, the players seem to believe in him and play hard for him.

[moss_is_1]

Let’s break this down.

1. Miller could have and should have played during the injuries to Randle and Rudy. There was a window for real minutes. Garza was sucking (playing some of the worst ball imaginable,) and still Finch wouldn’t give Miller a single competitive minute.

2. Minott was playing well. He had a high plus minus, was shooting well enough, and contributing. Then Finch went and messed with his rotation down to a .5 and that is when Minott started to struggle. The same thing happened to Clark and TSJ when their minutes got cut. This was a major talking point around the team for much of the year. .5 rotation spots undermine player confidence.

3. Mike Conley was not an 8th starter this season. He sucked for much of it. He got better during the very end and into the playoffs, where his play was very up and down. DDV was awful the first half and well below starter level in the playoffs. For everyone one good playoff game DDV had, he had 3 abysmal games. NAW started red hot, then nose dived during the middle of the season. He started to recover before the playoffs and was very up and down. Rudy had a pedestrian season by his standards but for 3 weeks of dominance towards the end of the season. He also had a few marvelous playoff games. Other than that, he was not a truly functional championship quality C.

4. Good teams like OKC and Houston found minutes for their young players, and managed to win. We should have traded Randle for a PG and backup C at the deadline. We lacked roster balance last year and likely will this year. This is more on TC than Finch. But Finch did not play the young guys so we could not move them or try to promote them to 9th man in the rotation.

1. What has Miller ever shown to see hes worthy of playing minutes? Garza has at least shown an ability to get buckets. He was struggling with his 3 point shot, sure. But im sure you see it everyday in practice and you see how good his offense is you have to feel hes going to come around.

2. He was playing well and he was getting that 9th man spot for it. Then I believe 2 things happened. He kept missing defensive rotations, and then there was some incident where he tweeted from the bench or something like that and Finch punished him for it.

3. Mike is also one of our only players with a brain. His shot was bad most of the year, but hes still a highly positive player and a great team defender. Again, Finch was trying to get DDV a rhythm after playing a new role and having no practice. I disagree that he was horrible, he was still fine as a bench player and would have good games while being a plus defender. Ant has spoken highly of Ddv's ability to relay what coverages hes seeing and helping him. So everyone has up and downs to a season, it happens.

4. Houston has what, 2 vets on the team? They played Reed Sheppard the 3rd overall pick about as much as we played Rob. Okc is also incredibly young as it is. No rookies really played for them, Wallace the only 2nd year guy. Easier to play young guys when you're blowing everyone out and the games over going into the 4th. Also Hart missing about 30 games, Chet 50, Caruso missed 28.

Finch has said again in his outgoing presser how high he likes the top 8 guys, but he probably messed up and should be playing 9 or 10. But he wanted the top 8 to get some chemistry and work it out over the season because he knew they would be most needed come playoffs. Now Randle, Rudy, Donte all missed some time so it never really clicked that well until late February? He also mentioned TSJ and Clark deserve to play he just struggled finding the minutes. It happens.

With Naw likely gone and Mike's continued declined it's just going to open the door more. Plus who knows what other moves we're going to make before the season.

[KGdaBom]

Picks for a good team become more valuable the further in the future they are. This year our pick was 21. Wait 7 years and we could suck. You never know. Dilly needs to deliver.

Yes Dilly does need to deliver. Finch needs to build him up. Develop him. That's an important part of coaching. Finch's lack of developing young players is my biggest gripe with him. If we do suck when the pick or picks convey I won't give a rat's ass if we've won a title or two between now and then.

To be fair, it was under Finch that Ant, McDaniels, and Naz all developed. Under Finch, NAW went from a salary filler in a trade about to be bounced from the league to coveted free agent. We want him to play the young guys, but they are not as good as our top 8-9. I don’t really blame him for making rookies earn minutes, and at times, Dilly, TSJ, Minnott, and Clark all got minutes. None sustained good play, even in limited minutes, to keep those minutes.

As was said, my problem with the Dilly trade is I don’t believe in Dilly. If I saw him as a sure starter, no problem giving away our last valuable trade assets. I don’t. That’s why I have no problems moving him this offseason in a Durant trade. Our assets are low though. Our 2032 pick is now frozen because of being over the second apron, and I believe if we’re over the second apron two out of the next four years, it drops to the last pick in the first round even if we finish with the worst record.

That sounds insane. Please confirm.

[BlacJacMac]

Yes Dilly does need to deliver. Finch needs to build him up. Develop him. That's an important part of coaching. Finch's lack of developing young players is my biggest gripe with him. If we do suck when the pick or picks convey I won't give a rat's ass if we've won a title or two between now and then.

To be fair, it was under Finch that Ant, McDaniels, and Naz all developed. Under Finch, NAW went from a salary filler in a trade about to be bounced from the league to coveted free agent. We want him to play the young guys, but they are not as good as our top 8-9. I don’t really blame him for making rookies earn minutes, and at times, Dilly, TSJ, Minnott, and Clark all got minutes. None sustained good play, even in limited minutes, to keep those minutes.

As was said, my problem with the Dilly trade is I don’t believe in Dilly. If I saw him as a sure starter, no problem giving away our last valuable trade assets. I don’t. That’s why I have no problems moving him this offseason in a Durant trade. Our assets are low though. Our 2032 pick is now frozen because of being over the second apron, and I believe if we’re over the second apron two out of the next four years, it drops to the last pick in the first round even if we finish with the worst record.

That sounds insane. Please confirm.

I know you hate researching, so I'll Google for you:

Here’s a list of the restrictions on teams that exceed the second apron of the luxury tax:

 • Teams cannot sign a waived player who had a salary of at least $14.1 million

 • Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players

 • Teams cannot include cash in a trade

 • Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year

 • First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)

 • A team’s first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/second-apron-penalties-limit-celtics-161930730.html

[KGdaBom]

To be fair, it was under Finch that Ant, McDaniels, and Naz all developed. Under Finch, NAW went from a salary filler in a trade about to be bounced from the league to coveted free agent. We want him to play the young guys, but they are not as good as our top 8-9. I don’t really blame him for making rookies earn minutes, and at times, Dilly, TSJ, Minnott, and Clark all got minutes. None sustained good play, even in limited minutes, to keep those minutes.

As was said, my problem with the Dilly trade is I don’t believe in Dilly. If I saw him as a sure starter, no problem giving away our last valuable trade assets. I don’t. That’s why I have no problems moving him this offseason in a Durant trade. Our assets are low though. Our 2032 pick is now frozen because of being over the second apron, and I believe if we’re over the second apron two out of the next four years, it drops to the last pick in the first round even if we finish with the worst record.

That sounds insane. Please confirm.

I know you hate researching, so I'll Google for you:

Here’s a list of the restrictions on teams that exceed the second apron of the luxury tax:

 • Teams cannot sign a waived player who had a salary of at least $14.1 million

 • Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players

 • Teams cannot include cash in a trade

 • Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year

 • First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)

 • A team’s first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/second-apron-penalties-limit-celtics-161930730.html

That just seems wrong. Man. Some team will get #1 overall and have it moved to 30.

[shrink]

Chris Finch had Minott and Dilly so checked out that they might as well have not been on the team. He has so prioritized Luka Garza (more of a mascot than a player,) over Leonard Miller that Miller will almost definitely leave. He started to play games with Clark’s minutes to undermine his confidence right before the playoffs started. The only player he did okay by is TSJ, and that was after not finding him minutes during the first half of the season. Finch is not just a bad player development coach, he is on par with the worst imaginable. Jaden has played almost his entire career under Finch and you can see how much of his offensive game is stymied for it. Likewise Ant continues to make the same hero ball mistakes all these years later.

Damn. Let the Finch hate just cloud your judgements some more. Minott had his opportunity in the beginning of the year and he blew it. Missing defensive rotations and not hitting his shots. Some people use that to motivate them to get better, so we'll see.

When the hell did Garza get any meaningful playing time on this team, or any playing time at the expense of Miller?? We knew Miller was pretty raw and unorthodox when he was drafted. Hes still pretty rail thin and has a goofy jumper. Finch has his warts but these are just made up reasons to hate on him.

Fact is we're a contender who needs to win games, while having 8 starter level players. Then we had a trade right before the season so Finch had to play them together to learn how to play together quickly. In his end of year presser he mentioned wanting to get Jaden more involved, then the trade happened and that sort of took a backseat to getting Randle and Ddv incorporated.

Let’s break this down.

1. Miller could have and should have played during the injuries to Randle and Rudy. There was a window for real minutes. Garza was sucking (playing some of the worst ball imaginable,) and still Finch wouldn’t give Miller a single competitive minute.

2. Minott was playing well. He had a high plus minus, was shooting well enough, and contributing. Then Finch went and messed with his rotation down to a .5 and that is when Minott started to struggle. The same thing happened to Clark and TSJ when their minutes got cut. This was a major talking point around the team for much of the year. .5 rotation spots undermine player confidence.

3. Mike Conley was not an 8th starter this season. He sucked for much of it. He got better during the very end and into the playoffs, where his play was very up and down. DDV was awful the first half and well below starter level in the playoffs. For everyone one good playoff game DDV had, he had 3 abysmal games. NAW started red hot, then nose dived during the middle of the season. He started to recover before the playoffs and was very up and down. Rudy had a pedestrian season by his standards but for 3 weeks of dominance towards the end of the season. He also had a few marvelous playoff games. Other than that, he was not a truly functional championship quality C.

4. Good teams like OKC and Houston found minutes for their young players, and managed to win. We should have traded Randle for a PG and backup C at the deadline. We lacked roster balance last year and likely will this year. This is more on TC than Finch. But Finch did not play the young guys so we could not move them or try to promote them to 9th man in the rotation.

I think you are letting your opinions frame your expectations.

Leonard Miller is a prospect. There is no evidence that he is ready to play NBA minutes yet. Garza knows his role and plays it, so the other four players on the court can play their roles. And in general, I do not have any problem with young players earning their game minutes, not just having them handed to them.

You are way higher on Josh Minott than the rest of us. Minott’s +/- isn’t great, and often his best +/- games are on low minutes when he didn’t contribute much. That’s one of the problems of +/-, it’s highly variable and dependent on what the other nine players on the court were doing.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/minotjo01/gamelog/2025/

You can blame Finch for taking away his minutes, but do you remember WHY Finch took away his minutes? It was because Minott kept blowing coverages, and that’s not Finch’s fault. And he replaced Minott with Jaylen Clark, not because Clark was a better prospect, but because he didn’t make those mistakes and he followed Finch’s game plan. Moreover, Minott got mad, and was tweeting from the bench during a live game! That is ALSO not Finch’s fault. That is just an immature kid, who lost an opportunity because he wasn’t being a good team player.

Finally, I think it’s unfair to blame Finch because we didn’t see all four young players have big roles in live games. Every player must take some responsibility for himself - if Minott is blowing coverages and Clark isn’t, Finch and the coaching staff are the common denominator for both players. Also, there is obviously development going on outside of actual games, which is why Clark and Shannon were able to step in and succeed when they finally got their minutes.

[winforlose]

Damn. Let the Finch hate just cloud your judgements some more. Minott had his opportunity in the beginning of the year and he blew it. Missing defensive rotations and not hitting his shots. Some people use that to motivate them to get better, so we'll see.

When the hell did Garza get any meaningful playing time on this team, or any playing time at the expense of Miller?? We knew Miller was pretty raw and unorthodox when he was drafted. Hes still pretty rail thin and has a goofy jumper. Finch has his warts but these are just made up reasons to hate on him.

Fact is we're a contender who needs to win games, while having 8 starter level players. Then we had a trade right before the season so Finch had to play them together to learn how to play together quickly. In his end of year presser he mentioned wanting to get Jaden more involved, then the trade happened and that sort of took a backseat to getting Randle and Ddv incorporated.

Let’s break this down.

1. Miller could have and should have played during the injuries to Randle and Rudy. There was a window for real minutes. Garza was sucking (playing some of the worst ball imaginable,) and still Finch wouldn’t give Miller a single competitive minute.

2. Minott was playing well. He had a high plus minus, was shooting well enough, and contributing. Then Finch went and messed with his rotation down to a .5 and that is when Minott started to struggle. The same thing happened to Clark and TSJ when their minutes got cut. This was a major talking point around the team for much of the year. .5 rotation spots undermine player confidence.

3. Mike Conley was not an 8th starter this season. He sucked for much of it. He got better during the very end and into the playoffs, where his play was very up and down. DDV was awful the first half and well below starter level in the playoffs. For everyone one good playoff game DDV had, he had 3 abysmal games. NAW started red hot, then nose dived during the middle of the season. He started to recover before the playoffs and was very up and down. Rudy had a pedestrian season by his standards but for 3 weeks of dominance towards the end of the season. He also had a few marvelous playoff games. Other than that, he was not a truly functional championship quality C.

4. Good teams like OKC and Houston found minutes for their young players, and managed to win. We should have traded Randle for a PG and backup C at the deadline. We lacked roster balance last year and likely will this year. This is more on TC than Finch. But Finch did not play the young guys so we could not move them or try to promote them to 9th man in the rotation.

I think you are letting your opinions frame your expectations.

Leonard Miller is a prospect. There is no evidence that he is ready to play NBA minutes yet. Garza knows his role and plays it, so the other four players on the court can play their roles. And in general, I do not have any problem with young players earning their game minutes, not just having them handed to them.

You are way higher on Josh Minott than the rest of us. Minott’s +/- isn’t great, and often his best +/- games are on low minutes when he didn’t contribute much. That’s one of the problems of +/-, it’s highly variable and dependent on what the other nine players on the court were doing.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/minotjo01/gamelog/2025/

You can blame Finch for taking away his minutes, but do you remember WHY Finch took away his minutes? It was because Minott kept blowing coverages, and that’s not Finch’s fault. And he replaced Minott with Jaylen Clark, not because Clark was a better prospect, but because he didn’t make those mistakes and he followed Finch’s game plan. Moreover, Minott got mad, and was tweeting from the bench during a live game! That is ALSO not Finch’s fault. That is just an immature kid, who lost an opportunity because he wasn’t being a good team player.

Finally, I think it’s unfair to blame Finch because we didn’t see all four young players have big roles in live games. Every player must take some responsibility for himself - if Minott is blowing coverages and Clark isn’t, Finch and the coaching staff are the common denominator for both players. Also, there is obviously development going on outside of actual games, which is why Clark and Shannon were able to step in and succeed when they finally got their minutes.

Jack Borman, Dane Moore, and other local Wolves media people were calling for giving Miller a chance. Not two weeks after his first snub, Miller dominated game 1 of the Rising Star tournament. Luka Garza single handily lost a game (he came in for less than 2 minutes and personally gave up 12 straight points, then the half ended and he was used in the following half,) and still Miller was not given minutes. Finch plays favorites and any Wolves fan who has seen him and his coaching pattern knows this.

Josh Minott absolutely blew it. Tweeting from the bench did come later, but you are correct that after a while he started to make mistakes. The difference is Finch had already shrunk his minutes and messed with his confidence before the mistakes started happening. He did the same to Dilly, TSJ, and Clark. Go back and listen to Dane Moore pods around different parts of the season. Finch loves to bully young players, get into their heads and destroy their confidence. He pulled both Minott and Dilly after one mistake but allowed Garza several without so much as a talking to. This is not me being a lone voice shouting into the void. People who watch and report on this team for a living saw the same damn thing.

P.S, players like GG Jackson are raw prospects who get a chance and go off. Tell Miller that he needs to be stuck behind Garza (who is not gonna be on the team this year,) and you really telling him that he doesn’t get that opportunity to go off and prove his value. It is short sighted, stupid, and sends a terrible message to current and prospective players.