Trade Talk (Part 18): Early Season Panic Edition

[winforlose]

Bulls fans on Twitter think they can get Joan in a deal for Coby White haha

Maybe they could have had the pick that became Joan, but that ship sailed last year. The value of a player on their final year drops. It drops even more when that player is due a big pay increase. I don’t know what the trade market is like for Coby, but I think Bulls fans are gonna be disappointed.

[Neeva]

Rumor is Bulls want Sabonis (for some reason?)Maybe it will be a three teamer. Bulls get Sabonis and filler, Sac gets Naz, Conley and filler, Wolves get White, Vucevic, filler and picks.

Why would we want to take Vucecic?

I get the White rumors and some of it makes sense. Would be nice to get a shot creator who is still fairly young. I see him as a combo guard more than a real PG, but he's for sure more of a point than running Donte out there.

Donte should have more value, I think hes a better player and has a better contract with the extra year.

I also don't think we should be moving a higher IQ player like Donte for another questionable BBIQ guy in White. If it's something around Shannon with Mike where we toss in a couple 2nds(we have 2 this year I believe) then count me in. Trading Mike doesn't seem likely though unfortunately.

Wolves need a reliable bench big. Also bulls picks will be nice, Sabonis ain’t doing **** for them.

[Danimals]

Conley, Dillingham, and Miller for Jones and Smith. Chicago would want TSJ instead of Miller. I’d still do it.

[Domejandro]

Here is an idea…

Naz Reid and Leonard Miller (filler) for Coby White and Jalen Smith.

I will continue to bang the drum for the idea of adding Jalen Smith. I think he is exactly what we need from a 3rd/4th big this year and beyond.

Another big benefit of this trade framework (beyond me not having to watch Naz Reid anymore) is that it also alleviates some of the tension surrounding resigning Coby White.

Coby White / Mike Conley / Rob Dillingham
Anthony Edwards / Donte DiVincenzo / Bones Hyland
Jaden McDaniels / Jaylen Clark
Julius Randle / Terrence Shannon Jr. / Joe Ingles
Rudy Gobert / Jalen Smith / Joan Beringer

Team is much more balanced this way, with Jalen Smith being able to coexist with both Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle.

[winforlose]

Here is an idea…

Naz Reid and Leonard Miller (filler) for Coby White and Jalen Smith.

I will continue to bang the drum for the idea of adding Jalen Smith. I think he is exactly what we need from a 3rd/4th big this year and beyond.

Another big benefit of this trade framework (beyond me not having to watch Naz Reid anymore) is that it also alleviates some of the tension surrounding resigning Coby White.

Coby White / Mike Conley / Rob Dillingham
Anthony Edwards / Donte DiVincenzo / Bones Hyland
Jaden McDaniels / Jaylen Clark
Julius Randle / Terrence Shannon Jr. / Joe Ingles
Rudy Gobert / Jalen Smith / Joan Beringer

Team is much more balanced this way, with Jalen Smith being able to coexist with both Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle.

TSJ isn’t a 4, Mike is likely gonna be missing significant time and hasn’t been effective when healthy. Rob is performing at Culver levels and is not likely to improve this season. He should be in Iowa learning to play PG. our bench has been near the bottom of the league in scoring and your solution is to hope Donte can replace Naz’s production and using Smith as the X factor. Donte has not played as well coming off the bench and is catch and shoot dependent. I think his production would drop again. I just don’t see Smith as being good enough to bridge the gap.

[Domejandro]

I will continue to bang the drum for the idea of adding Jalen Smith. I think he is exactly what we need from a 3rd/4th big this year and beyond.

Another big benefit of this trade framework (beyond me not having to watch Naz Reid anymore) is that it also alleviates some of the tension surrounding resigning Coby White.

Coby White / Mike Conley / Rob Dillingham
Anthony Edwards / Donte DiVincenzo / Bones Hyland
Jaden McDaniels / Jaylen Clark
Julius Randle / Terrence Shannon Jr. / Joe Ingles
Rudy Gobert / Jalen Smith / Joan Beringer

Team is much more balanced this way, with Jalen Smith being able to coexist with both Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle.

TSJ isn’t a 4, Mike is likely gonna be missing significant time and hasn’t been effective when healthy. Rob is performing at Culver levels and is not likely to improve this season. He should be in Iowa learning to play PG. our bench has been near the bottom of the league in scoring and your solution is to hope Donte can replace Naz’s production and using Smith as the X factor. Donte has not played as well coming off the bench and is catch and shoot dependent. I think his production would drop again. I just don’t see Smith as being good enough to bridge the gap.

Me listing Terrence Shannon Jr. at that position was purely an aesthetic choice. Jalen Smith would be taking Naz's 20-26 minutes a night in the three man Gobert/Randle/Reid trifecta, with Jaden McDaniels continuing to slot in at the four for small-ball.

In 25.8 minutes per game, Naz Reid averages 13.5 points on 45.4/38.1/76.7 splits.
In 17.7 minutes per game, Jalen Smith averages 10 points on 48.6/37.7/73.9 splits.

Naz Reid is obviously a better isolation scorer by a mile (per minute he scores less than Jalen Smith, but Smith isn't someone who has explosive performances), but the scoring gap is absolutely dwarfed by providing Coby White the lion's share of the abysmal 25-30 Conley/Dillingham minutes per night. I'm very confused at the idea that getting Coby White by exchanging Naz Reid for Jalen Smith would somehow make Minnesota's offense worse.

[winforlose]

Another big benefit of this trade framework (beyond me not having to watch Naz Reid anymore) is that it also alleviates some of the tension surrounding resigning Coby White.

Coby White / Mike Conley / Rob Dillingham
Anthony Edwards / Donte DiVincenzo / Bones Hyland
Jaden McDaniels / Jaylen Clark
Julius Randle / Terrence Shannon Jr. / Joe Ingles
Rudy Gobert / Jalen Smith / Joan Beringer

Team is much more balanced this way, with Jalen Smith being able to coexist with both Rudy Gobert and Julius Randle.

TSJ isn’t a 4, Mike is likely gonna be missing significant time and hasn’t been effective when healthy. Rob is performing at Culver levels and is not likely to improve this season. He should be in Iowa learning to play PG. our bench has been near the bottom of the league in scoring and your solution is to hope Donte can replace Naz’s production and using Smith as the X factor. Donte has not played as well coming off the bench and is catch and shoot dependent. I think his production would drop again. I just don’t see Smith as being good enough to bridge the gap.

Me listing Terrence Shannon Jr. at that position was purely an aesthetic choice. Jalen Smith would be taking Naz's 20-26 minutes a night in the three man Gobert/Randle/Reid trifecta, with Jaden McDaniels continuing to slot in at the four for small-ball.

In 25.8 minutes per game, Naz Reid averages 13.5 points on 45.4/38.1/76.7 splits.
In 17.7 minutes per game, Jalen Smith averages 10 points on 48.6/37.7/73.9 splits.

Naz Reid is obviously a better isolation scorer by a mile (per minute he scores less than Jalen Smith, but Smith isn't someone who has explosive performances), but the scoring gap is absolutely dwarfed by providing Coby White the lion's share of the abysmal 25-30 Conley/Dillingham minutes per night. I'm very confused at the idea that getting Coby White by exchanging Naz Reid for Jalen Smith would somehow make Minnesota's offense worse.

Naz’s numbers are down because his early season was a mess. In theory Naz is a starter quality PF and former 6th man of the year, who is only 26. I don’t know how much untapped potential Smith has, but from what little I know of him I don’t think he is starter level. That said, the other part of my comment was that DDV going to the bench is likely to score less than as a starter. Especially during the time he is playing without Ant. So the question is whether one of the worst bench scoring unit in the NBA is better with Smith and a diminished DDV than with Naz and whoever we can bring in for Dilly and Conley? I don’t know the answer to that.

[minimus]

Conley, Dillingham, and Miller for Jones and Smith. Chicago would want TSJ instead of Miller. I’d still do it.

Conley, Dillingham, Miller, TJ and SRP for Jones and Smith

Rudy Gobert / Jalen Smith / Joan Beringer
Julius Randle / Naz Reid / Jaden McDaniels
Jaden McDaniels / ??? / Naz Reid
Anthony Edwards / Jaylen Clark / ???
Tre Jones / Donte DiVincenzo / Bones Hyland

Add Kyle Anderson and this is a much balanced roster.

[cmoss84]

Rob and Miller for Lopez and Paul?

[shrink]

1. Conley would likely be most of the matching salary, and we made promises.

I understand why you keep banging the drum on this, but at the end of the day, a team has to make a trade in the team's best interest. Conley is a pro's pro, he will understand it's the nature of the business.

Even at its most selfish level, a GM that backs out on a promise to beloved Mike Conley would alienate players and potential free agents. Mike Conley is not just “some guy,” and it would damage the Wolves reputation of doing right by their players.

[Norseman79]

Depending on what's offered could be a great trade, I am not a White fan, but something has to be done.

[shrink]

Nolian got me thinking about Myles Turner. It’d be ironic to acquire him now, when fans have tried to bring him to MIN ever since KAT arrived, but what do you think of this?

MIN GETS: Myles Turner + Cole Anthony

MIL GETS: Naz Reid + Rob Dillingham

[shrink]

Here is an idea…

Naz Reid and Leonard Miller (filler) for Coby White and Jalen Smith.

Five years of Naz, who wants to be here and is on a reasonable contract, is worth more than Coby White. CHI could trade us White, and then they (or any team) could make an offer we wouldn’t want to match.

Jalen Smith is usable, but he doesn’t have enough trade value to tip the scales in either direction.

[Domejandro]

Here is an idea…

Naz Reid and Leonard Miller (filler) for Coby White and Jalen Smith.

Five years of Naz, who wants to be here and is on a reasonable contract, is worth more than Coby White. CHI could trade us White, and then they (or any team) could make an offer we wouldn’t want to match.

Jalen Smith is usable, but he doesn’t have enough trade value to tip the scales in either direction.

I am not convinced that Naz Reid on the market is considered a significantly positive contract, at this stage. Being honest, I think that Minnesota fans are completely lost in the sauce about what kind of player he is and how the league more broadly views him. Teams literally gameplan around him being incompetent defensively.

Do I think he is a net-negative contract? Probably not, it likely clocks in as neutral to slightly positive around the NBA. That said, I think that pathways towards Minnesota improving significantly are worth exploring, especially at the cost of a bench-caliber player.

I also have to ask, "What are people thinking that Coby White is going to get on the open market?" His archetype of player doesn't receive absurd offers anymore, and Point-Guard/Combo-Guard is a heavily saturated position around the NBA. Teams have adjusted to the new CBA, I see a pretty clear pathway to retaining him. Even if Minnesota doesn't retain him (again, I'm not buying that he's getting some massive $30 million offer on the open market), is the downgrade (if it even is) from Naz Reid to Jalen Smith significant enough to justify paying him an additional $14 million just off of vibes?

[Slim Tubby]

Nolian got me thinking about Myles Turner. It’d be ironic to acquire him now, when fans have tried to bring him to MIN ever since KAT arrived, but what do you think of this?

MIN GETS: Myles Turner + Cole Anthony

MIL GETS: Naz Reid + Rob Dillingham

Take Turner out and add Portis. What would our offer look like? Would this be enough?

MIL in: Conley, Dilly & TSJ
MIN in: Portis & Anthony

C Gobert/Reid
PF Randle/Portis
SF McDaniels/Ingles
SG Edwards/Clark
PG DDV/Anthony/Hyland

That would be one heck of a C/PF rotation but I have no clue what Anthony actually has left in the tank at PG.

Sent from my G54 using RealGM mobile app

[shrink]

Here is an idea…

Naz Reid and Leonard Miller (filler) for Coby White and Jalen Smith.

Five years of Naz, who wants to be here and is on a reasonable contract, is worth more than Coby White. CHI could trade us White, and then they (or any team) could make an offer we wouldn’t want to match.

Jalen Smith is usable, but he doesn’t have enough trade value to tip the scales in either direction.

I am not convinced that Naz Reid on the market is considered a significantly positive contract, at this stage. Being honest, I think that Minnesota fans are completely lost in the sauce about what kind of player he is and how the league more broadly views him. Teams literally gameplan around him being incompetent defensively.

Do I think he is a net-negative contract? Probably not, it likely clocks in as neutral to slightly positive around the NBA. That said, I think that pathways towards Minnesota improving significantly are worth exploring, especially at the cost of a bench-caliber player.

We might be overly sensitive to Naz’ downside because of his slow start, and because he is forced to play out of position at center next to Randle. Last year, when Naz played with Gobert, the Wolves posted terrific defensive (and offensive) numbers. In fact, the Rudy-Naz pairing was one of the team’s best, even better than Rudy with almost every other Wolf.

As for valuation, I am probably with you, that the contract is in the middle here. When Naz got his new deal, most Wolves fans thought it was a bargain, while some national pundits thought it was an overpay. For me, I thought it was just about right, and Naz was finally fairly paid. The value in Naz is that he is instant-offense scorer, like a Jamal Crawford, but he happens to be 6-9. He obviously has been one of the best non-starters in the league for many years, always blocked by two All Star/All NBA big men his whole career. His deal has extra value because it is locked in, as the cap will rise. And finally, this year was a blow, but he regularly works so hard over the summer that he enters every season with something else in his bag. Maybe next summer it’s defense? With his scoring and his range, he has value alongside a legitimate defensive center, whether that’s Gobert or someone else on a different team.

[Danimals]

In a vacuum Randle is clearly better than Naz. However, Naz is younger, on a cheaper longer contract, fits better with Gobert, fits better with Ant, provides better spacing, is a better defender, and does not need any part of the offense designed around him to produce. Trading Randle for a PG who can replicate his production and playmaking is a no brainer if possible.

[winforlose]

In a vacuum Randle is clearly better than Naz. However, Naz is younger, on a cheaper longer contract, fits better with Gobert, fits better with Ant, provides better spacing, is a better defender, and does not need any part of the offense designed around him to produce. Trading Randle for a PG who can replicate his production and playmaking is a no brainer if possible.

Ben Beeckon said something this morning on locked on Wolves that was interesting. He said Coby White generates approxmately 70% of his own 2 point shots whereas Donte is closer to %70 percent assisted from 2. From deep Coby is also significantly better at generating his own 3 point shot but is still heavily assisted. Randle is an iso player and White can do a lot of the same. Randle and White are probably around the same in overall 3P% and around the same defensively. The difference is Randle has multiple years of control at a reasonable price and White could walk tomorrow. I would want Dilly out as wells Jalen Smith to play backup 4/5, and maybe another young player or pick back. But this is a viable option.

[BlacJacMac]

Five years of Naz, who wants to be here and is on a reasonable contract, is worth more than Coby White. CHI could trade us White, and then they (or any team) could make an offer we wouldn’t want to match.

Jalen Smith is usable, but he doesn’t have enough trade value to tip the scales in either direction.

I am not convinced that Naz Reid on the market is considered a significantly positive contract, at this stage. Being honest, I think that Minnesota fans are completely lost in the sauce about what kind of player he is and how the league more broadly views him. Teams literally gameplan around him being incompetent defensively.

Do I think he is a net-negative contract? Probably not, it likely clocks in as neutral to slightly positive around the NBA. That said, I think that pathways towards Minnesota improving significantly are worth exploring, especially at the cost of a bench-caliber player.

We might be overly sensitive to Naz’ downside because of his slow start, and because he is forced to play out of position at center next to Randle. Last year, when Naz played with Gobert, the Wolves posted terrific defensive (and offensive) numbers. In fact, the Rudy-Naz pairing was one of the team’s best, even better than Rudy with almost every other Wolf.

As for valuation, I am probably with you, that the contract is in the middle here. When Naz got his new deal, most Wolves fans thought it was a bargain, while some national pundits thought it was an overpay. For me, I thought it was just about right, and Naz was finally fairly paid. The value in Naz is that he is instant-offense scorer, like a Jamal Crawford, but he happens to be 6-9. He obviously has been one of the best non-starters in the league for many years, always blocked by two All Star/All NBA big men his whole career. His deal has extra value because it is locked in, as the cap will rise. And finally, this year was a blow, but he regularly works so hard over the summer that he enters every season with something else in his bag. Maybe next summer it’s defense? With his scoring and his range, he has value alongside a legitimate defensive center, whether that’s Gobert or someone else on a different team.

I'm not sure that's a positive.

Its easier to hide a score only Guard than a score only Big.

Maybe its not so bad if Naz was able to play all his minutes with Rudy and Joan. He should not be getting any minutes at Center. I'd rather see him at the 3 than the 5.

[BlacJacMac]

In a vacuum Randle is clearly better than Naz. However, Naz is younger, on a cheaper longer contract, fits better with Gobert, fits better with Ant, provides better spacing, is a better defender, and does not need any part of the offense designed around him to produce. Trading Randle for a PG who can replicate his production and playmaking is a no brainer if possible.

Is he?

Randle struggles mightily with quick, long offensive players - but he was absolutely vital last postseason in defending LeBron, Luka and Draymond.

Outside of the occasional impressive weakside block, I'm not sure Naz provides anything on defense.