Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[Klomp]

THT doesn’t seem like the answer. The way I ask the question is pretend in game 81 Mike Conley is injured in a way that means he is out for the entire playoffs. Whatever player we acquire for Kyle and Shake needs to be the guy who from game 82 through game 7 of the finals can replace enough of Mike to keep us competitive. I see that as Tyus. There are of course other floor generals, but I don’t think THT is that guy. Do you?

Ultimately, there probably isn't a single realistic option who will be that guy, if you're only talking about trading Anderson and Milton. Jones has potential to be that guy for short spurts, as does Horton-Tucker.

Tyus and Mike are putting up similar numbers. Tyus can play on or off ball, and play fast or slow. I don’t get what makes you think he couldn’t replace Mike, especially with 2-3 months to build chemistry with the team.

Mike is a plus on defense, or average at worst. Tyus is average at best, but has a decent chance to be a negative.

[Klomp]

Another interesting possibility is if McLaughlin could be consistent enough to where, instead of using Anderson to get a PG, he could net us another 3/D wing/forward instead. Maybe someone like Dorian Finney-Smith?

[winforlose]

Ultimately, there probably isn't a single realistic option who will be that guy, if you're only talking about trading Anderson and Milton. Jones has potential to be that guy for short spurts, as does Horton-Tucker.

Tyus and Mike are putting up similar numbers. Tyus can play on or off ball, and play fast or slow. I don’t get what makes you think he couldn’t replace Mike, especially with 2-3 months to build chemistry with the team.

Mike is a plus on defense, or average at worst. Tyus is average at best, but has a decent chance to be a negative.

Please elaborate. This is not me being snide or anything like that, I just need to know more about why you think this.

[Klomp]

Tyus and Mike are putting up similar numbers. Tyus can play on or off ball, and play fast or slow. I don’t get what makes you think he couldn’t replace Mike, especially with 2-3 months to build chemistry with the team.

Mike is a plus on defense, or average at worst. Tyus is average at best, but has a decent chance to be a negative.

Please elaborate. This is not me being snide or anything like that, I just need to know more about why you think this.

Which part do you want me to elaborate on?

[Domejandro]

I don’t know how people can see Jordan McLaughlin change the entire vibe of a game and think that Tyus Jones wouldn’t be a huge upgrade over Kyle Anderson.

I like Kyle’s defensive versatility, but every time he shares minutes with Rudy Gobert, Minnesota completely implodes.

[Klomp]

I don’t know how people can see Jordan McLaughlin change the entire vibe of a game and think that Tyus Jones wouldn’t be a huge upgrade over Kyle Anderson.

He absolutely would be a big upgrade offensively. But two questions will need to be answered as we approach the trade deadline:
1. Can we scheme around whatever the defensive hit will be? The team is built on defense, so the team will strongly consider defensive impact when looking at any potential roster changes. Inserting McLaughlin into the second unit is one way to see how much of a defensive hit we are willing to take, though it would be magnified in the postseason. Anderson would also be a defensive loss, and we have to consider if putting Brown (who is currently struggling) into that role would impact the team's success as well.
2. Are we willing to pay up what he will cost? Jones will be one of the hottest names at the deadline. Purely for salary implications, I'm expecting him to cost us Anderson and Milton. But for talent implications, I don't think that's close to enough. I think we are talking about including at least one or two of Minott, Moore or possibly Miller and the WAS/MEM 2nd on top of Anderson and Milton.

[Neeva]

I don’t trust Tyus( he was abysmal against the Lakers) or Jmac in the playoffs at all and Tyus will be expensive.

[Klomp]

Just FYI...

Read on Twitter

[minimus]

Another interesting possibility is if McLaughlin could be consistent enough to where, instead of using Anderson to get a PG, he could net us another 3/D wing/forward instead. Maybe someone like Dorian Finney-Smith?

I have better idea: Moore, Minott, SRP for Simone Fontecchio

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

Gobert/Towns + Garza
Towns/Reid/KA + Miller
McDaniels/Fontecchio/KA
Edwards/NAW/TBJ
Conley/JMac/Milton + Nix

[winforlose]

Mike is a plus on defense, or average at worst. Tyus is average at best, but has a decent chance to be a negative.

Please elaborate. This is not me being snide or anything like that, I just need to know more about why you think this.

Which part do you want me to elaborate on?

The specifics of why Mike is a plus to average at worst, and Tyus is average at best with negative at worst. Is this based on advanced metrics, eye test? I cannot really respond properly unless I know what we are talking about.

[Klomp]

Please elaborate. This is not me being snide or anything like that, I just need to know more about why you think this.

Which part do you want me to elaborate on?

The specifics of why Mike is a plus to average at worst, and Tyus is average at best with negative at worst. Is this based on advanced metrics, eye test? I cannot really respond properly unless I know what we are talking about.

A little bit of both.

Mike has always been solid. He's a former all-defense guy, and has received all-defense votes in multiple other seasons and as recently as three seasons ago. To my knowledge, Tyus Jones has never received a single all-defense vote. And while I don't necessarily remember it firsthand, it doesn't surprise me that teams would target Jones on defense as a weak link in the postseason.

[shrink]

Just FYI...

Read on Twitter

Sure we’re #1 in the West in our best season ever, but if the KNICKS are asking, of course we’ll trash it to trade them KAT!

Everyone knows MIN only exists as a franchise to develop players for big market teams!

[KGdaBom]

True, but they need to floor space or it is Kyle 2.0.

Yea, I think that getting a floor spacer would simplify our rotations a lot. For instance, look at this THT highlights. Nothing special, but he moves the ball, shoots when open, drive when he sees gap in defense.

Watch on YouTube

Will KA, Moore + SRP be enough for THT?

Gobert/Towns + Garza
Towns/Reid/McDaniels + Miller
McDaniels/THT/TBJ + Minott
Edwards/NAW/TBJ
Conley/JMac/Milton + Nix


Another idea: KA, Milton, Moore for Doug McDermott, Branham

We lose KA defense, but we get 5-10 minutes when McDermott or Branham can get hot.

THT doesn’t seem like the answer. The way I ask the question is pretend in game 81 Mike Conley is injured in a way that means he is out for the entire playoffs. Whatever player we acquire for Kyle and Shake needs to be the guy who from game 82 through game 7 of the finals can replace enough of Mike to keep us competitive. I see that as Tyus. There are of course other floor generals, but I don’t think THT is that guy. Do you?

What if Ant, KAT and Rudy all get injured in game 81. Do we have replacements that will keep us competitive all the way to game 7 of the NBA finals? Probably not. If Mike gets injured and is out for the playoffs we probably don't win either. Your fixation on Mike getting injured is so over the top.

[winforlose]

Yea, I think that getting a floor spacer would simplify our rotations a lot. For instance, look at this THT highlights. Nothing special, but he moves the ball, shoots when open, drive when he sees gap in defense.

Watch on YouTube

Will KA, Moore + SRP be enough for THT?

Gobert/Towns + Garza
Towns/Reid/McDaniels + Miller
McDaniels/THT/TBJ + Minott
Edwards/NAW/TBJ
Conley/JMac/Milton + Nix


Another idea: KA, Milton, Moore for Doug McDermott, Branham

We lose KA defense, but we get 5-10 minutes when McDermott or Branham can get hot.

THT doesn’t seem like the answer. The way I ask the question is pretend in game 81 Mike Conley is injured in a way that means he is out for the entire playoffs. Whatever player we acquire for Kyle and Shake needs to be the guy who from game 82 through game 7 of the finals can replace enough of Mike to keep us competitive. I see that as Tyus. There are of course other floor generals, but I don’t think THT is that guy. Do you?

What if Ant, KAT and Rudy all get injured in game 81. Do we have replacements that will keep us competitive all the way to game 7 of the NBA finals? Probably not. If Mike gets injured and is out for the playoffs we probably don't win either. Your fixation on Mike getting injured is so over the top.

Notice you needed to use the word and. You want to have this conversation you need to use the word or. What if Rudy or KAT or Ant got hurt. The answer is we use Naz to replace KAT and either Kyle or whoever we replace Kyle with, or Miller if he gets minutes and proves himself. The answer if Rudy gets hurt is KAT moves to the 5 and Kyle plays the 4. Kyle is our only non shooter and can play on ball to mitigate that. If Ant gets hurt we need NAW or Troy to step up. It worked in a limited sample size. What you are missing is that we can probably survive losing one of those 3. It would be tough and inject a ton of uncertainty, but we have backup plans for all of them, and even one for Jaden. The player we don’t have a backup plan for is Mike. Kyle would need to play a lot with Rudy, you have seen how that looks. JMAC could start for us, but do you honestly think he can play big minutes in the playoffs? NAW could start at PG, but tell me how does he compare to Mike? This team has proven it needs a PG, and we don’t have a proper backup. We have SGs and a 3rd string. We need a second string and we need that player to be able to take over for Mike in the next year or two.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Tyus is a grat ball handler. Not Mike level specially at crtuch time and in defense but he will a fantastic back up considering the money we can spend. As a Jazz follower as well, hope we dont trade for THT. He is a terrible player, not a playmaker, not a good shooter. just make crazy move but definitly not fit in our team.

[KGdaBom]

THT doesn’t seem like the answer. The way I ask the question is pretend in game 81 Mike Conley is injured in a way that means he is out for the entire playoffs. Whatever player we acquire for Kyle and Shake needs to be the guy who from game 82 through game 7 of the finals can replace enough of Mike to keep us competitive. I see that as Tyus. There are of course other floor generals, but I don’t think THT is that guy. Do you?

What if Ant, KAT and Rudy all get injured in game 81. Do we have replacements that will keep us competitive all the way to game 7 of the NBA finals? Probably not. If Mike gets injured and is out for the playoffs we probably don't win either. Your fixation on Mike getting injured is so over the top.

Notice you needed to use the word and. You want to have this conversation you need to use the word or. What if Rudy or KAT or Ant got hurt. The answer is we use Naz to replace KAT and either Kyle or whoever we replace Kyle with, or Miller if he gets minutes and proves himself. The answer if Rudy gets hurt is KAT moves to the 5 and Kyle plays the 4. Kyle is our only non shooter and can play on ball to mitigate that. If Ant gets hurt we need NAW or Troy to step up. It worked in a limited sample size. What you are missing is that we can probably survive losing one of those 3. It would be tough and inject a ton of uncertainty, but we have backup plans for all of them, and even one for Jaden. The player we don’t have a backup plan for is Mike. Kyle would need to play a lot with Rudy, you have seen how that looks. JMAC could start for us, but do you honestly think he can play big minutes in the playoffs? NAW could start at PG, but tell me how does he compare to Mike? This team has proven it needs a PG, and we don’t have a proper backup. We have SGs and a 3rd string. We need a second string and we need that player to be able to take over for Mike in the next year or two.

I was exaggerating because I think your fixation is so out of hand. If we lose Ant, Rudy or KAT for the playoffs we won't win. We probably won't win even if we lose none of them. Just the way it is. Hard to win the NBA title. It takes not only health, but luck and a hot streak.

[winforlose]

What if Ant, KAT and Rudy all get injured in game 81. Do we have replacements that will keep us competitive all the way to game 7 of the NBA finals? Probably not. If Mike gets injured and is out for the playoffs we probably don't win either. Your fixation on Mike getting injured is so over the top.

Notice you needed to use the word and. You want to have this conversation you need to use the word or. What if Rudy or KAT or Ant got hurt. The answer is we use Naz to replace KAT and either Kyle or whoever we replace Kyle with, or Miller if he gets minutes and proves himself. The answer if Rudy gets hurt is KAT moves to the 5 and Kyle plays the 4. Kyle is our only non shooter and can play on ball to mitigate that. If Ant gets hurt we need NAW or Troy to step up. It worked in a limited sample size. What you are missing is that we can probably survive losing one of those 3. It would be tough and inject a ton of uncertainty, but we have backup plans for all of them, and even one for Jaden. The player we don’t have a backup plan for is Mike. Kyle would need to play a lot with Rudy, you have seen how that looks. JMAC could start for us, but do you honestly think he can play big minutes in the playoffs? NAW could start at PG, but tell me how does he compare to Mike? This team has proven it needs a PG, and we don’t have a proper backup. We have SGs and a 3rd string. We need a second string and we need that player to be able to take over for Mike in the next year or two.

I was exaggerating because I think your fixation is so out of hand. If we lose Ant, Rudy or KAT for the playoffs we won't win. We probably won't win even if we lose none of them. Just the way it is. Hard to win the NBA title. It takes not only health, but luck and a hot streak.

I disagree on all counts. Pick a team and assume they are at full strength and we aren’t, then maybe we lose. But they may be banged up or worse as well. Even if they aren’t, this team has a lot of firepower and depth but for one glaring weak spot. Not only that, but we have no heir apparent at PG and a financial straight jacket next year. You telling me that my “fixation” is out of hand doesn’t change the facts. It also doesn’t change the fact that this team is much worse across the board without a PG on the floor. Finch is starting to realize that which is why he is going to play JMAC more. You really should pay more attention to how different we are when Mike is off the floor.

[Domejandro]

I don’t know how people can see Jordan McLaughlin change the entire vibe of a game and think that Tyus Jones wouldn’t be a huge upgrade over Kyle Anderson.

He absolutely would be a big upgrade offensively. But two questions will need to be answered as we approach the trade deadline:
1. Can we scheme around whatever the defensive hit will be? The team is built on defense, so the team will strongly consider defensive impact when looking at any potential roster changes. Inserting McLaughlin into the second unit is one way to see how much of a defensive hit we are willing to take, though it would be magnified in the postseason. Anderson would also be a defensive loss, and we have to consider if putting Brown (who is currently struggling) into that role would impact the team's success as well.
2. Are we willing to pay up what he will cost? Jones will be one of the hottest names at the deadline. Purely for salary implications, I'm expecting him to cost us Anderson and Milton. But for talent implications, I don't think that's close to enough. I think we are talking about including at least one or two of Minott, Moore or possibly Miller and the WAS/MEM 2nd on top of Anderson and Milton.

Minnesota can afford to give up a bit on defense, the current offense is not adequate enough to win an NBA Championship (at least from historical precedent).

Tyus pretty much immediately solves a huge chunk of the team’s turnovers (though KAT and Anthony Edwards would still have to improve) and the spacing would be substantially better (especially carving out a chunk of Kyle Anderson’s minutes for Troy Brown Jr.).

Unprotect the 2029 pick in exchange for Utah sending a top-twenty protected 2025 First Round Draft Pick to Washington (that becomes two seconds), and/or find another team to send seconds in exchange for Kyle Anderson or cap relief.

[minimus]

I don’t know how people can see Jordan McLaughlin change the entire vibe of a game and think that Tyus Jones wouldn’t be a huge upgrade over Kyle Anderson.

He absolutely would be a big upgrade offensively. But two questions will need to be answered as we approach the trade deadline:
1. Can we scheme around whatever the defensive hit will be? The team is built on defense, so the team will strongly consider defensive impact when looking at any potential roster changes. Inserting McLaughlin into the second unit is one way to see how much of a defensive hit we are willing to take, though it would be magnified in the postseason. Anderson would also be a defensive loss, and we have to consider if putting Brown (who is currently struggling) into that role would impact the team's success as well.
2. Are we willing to pay up what he will cost? Jones will be one of the hottest names at the deadline. Purely for salary implications, I'm expecting him to cost us Anderson and Milton. But for talent implications, I don't think that's close to enough. I think we are talking about including at least one or two of Minott, Moore or possibly Miller and the WAS/MEM 2nd on top of Anderson and Milton.

Minnesota can afford to give up a bit on defense, the current offense is not adequate enough to win an NBA Championship (at least from historical precedent).

Tyus pretty much immediately solves a huge chunk of the team’s turnovers (though KAT and Anthony Edwards would still have to improve) and the spacing would be substantially better (especially carving out a chunk of Kyle Anderson’s minutes for Troy Brown Jr.).

People tend to forget how many MIN issues are related to turnovers. It is not simply a missed shot, live ball turnovers is like missed shot + opponent rebound + opponent offensive possession. BUT, in 99% cases when two of Rudy, Towns and Anderson are on the floor a live ball turnover means favourable for opponent CROSS MATCH in early offense. So a live ball turnover is likely minus 2 points for us, 2-3 points for opponent, which equals 4-5 point swing in a 10 second span.

[Klomp]

He absolutely would be a big upgrade offensively. But two questions will need to be answered as we approach the trade deadline:
1. Can we scheme around whatever the defensive hit will be? The team is built on defense, so the team will strongly consider defensive impact when looking at any potential roster changes. Inserting McLaughlin into the second unit is one way to see how much of a defensive hit we are willing to take, though it would be magnified in the postseason. Anderson would also be a defensive loss, and we have to consider if putting Brown (who is currently struggling) into that role would impact the team's success as well.
2. Are we willing to pay up what he will cost? Jones will be one of the hottest names at the deadline. Purely for salary implications, I'm expecting him to cost us Anderson and Milton. But for talent implications, I don't think that's close to enough. I think we are talking about including at least one or two of Minott, Moore or possibly Miller and the WAS/MEM 2nd on top of Anderson and Milton.

Minnesota can afford to give up a bit on defense, the current offense is not adequate enough to win an NBA Championship (at least from historical precedent).

Tyus pretty much immediately solves a huge chunk of the team’s turnovers (though KAT and Anthony Edwards would still have to improve) and the spacing would be substantially better (especially carving out a chunk of Kyle Anderson’s minutes for Troy Brown Jr.).

People tend to forget how many MIN issues are related to turnovers. It is not simply a missed shot, live ball turnovers is like missed shot + opponent rebound + opponent offensive possession. BUT, in 99% cases when two of Rudy, Towns and Anderson are on the floor a live ball turnover means favourable for opponent CROSS MATCH in early offense. So a live ball turnover is likely minus 2 points for us, 2-3 points for opponent, which equals 4-5 point swing in a 10 second span.

Kyle averages only one turnover per game, while the narrative seems to suggest it's closer to five.