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Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#941 » by younggunsmn » Fri Jul 4, 2025 1:05 am

winforlose wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:
shrink wrote:I posted about this in the other thread


Here’s the deal. Teams receiving a player in trade don’t want to trigger the first apron, so they want to send out more money than they take in. If they are close, that could mean sending a cheap salary to MIN.

So, of [PHX, HOU, ATL, BRK, GSW, LAL, MIN], which teams need to dump some cheap salary or create roster space?

What vet min or cheap players on these teams do you like? Connelly has some leverage here to get a decent player, because he could easily walk away from this deal, while other teams need it to go through. Find a cheap guy that might have some value.



I wouldn't get too excited.
MIN, BRK, GSW, and LAL only need to be looped in because of the draft pick trading in the 2nd round that Phoenix did with picks they got from Houston for Durant.
Houston and Atlanta have to be looped into the Durant trade to make the salary matching in the Capela sign and trade work.
(Interesting note, Atlanta got a 2031 2nd round pickswap for that which mirrors what we got from the Warriors in the Kyle Anderson deal last summer).

Every other player transaction (NAW, Finney-Smith) works as a separate transaction from the Durant trade.
Although if the Lakers could figure a way to get a TPE from Finney-Smith, it would be useful on their end.
But they could negotiate that separately with Houston and give them a small incentive.

Any team threatening to muck up the 2nd round draft pick dominoes by trying to extort more is just going to piss off a bunch of players, agents, and fellow GMs. I dont expect the trade to change at all from what's been reported unless some surprise team decides it wants Jalen Green or Dillon Brooks and their bad contracts.

And the Wolves are very likely finished when it comes to anything but a vet minimum addition.


Not that this will happen, nor that it should, but what happens if the Wolves don’t go along with the multi team framework. The deal they made was 31 for 36, they cannot exactly cancel it. If the Suns need the multi team to complete the deal, do the Wolves even have a choice other than to participate?


Wolves are not needed to make the rest work.
Trade down from 31 to 36 to 45 can be done as a 2nd set of post Durant trades since there is no salary involved.

If the Durant deal were to fall apart though, all those 2nd round pick transactions fall apart because they are predicated on picks the Suns received from Houston.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#942 » by TimberKat » Fri Jul 4, 2025 1:27 am

I am still waiting for a free agent that wants to come play with Ant, Randle, and Gobert. Someone like Chris Paul or Westbrook.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#943 » by Loaf_of_bread » Fri Jul 4, 2025 2:10 am

TimberKat wrote:I am still waiting for a free agent that wants to come play with Ant, Randle, and Gobert. Someone like Chris Paul or Westbrook.


Who wants to play with Randle? Ballhog dishing a pass right at the end of the shot clock. Good players lining up for that..

And, then randle walks back the court shaking his head, when player misses the shot in a non adventagous position.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#944 » by cmoss84 » Fri Jul 4, 2025 2:28 am

Rudy, Randle, and DDV
for
Porzingis and Daniels

Trey/DDV/Johnson/Randle/Rudy
Richesar 6th man

Mike/Ant/Daniels/Jaden/Porzingis
RD, Naz, TSJ, Clark, Joan
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#945 » by Loaf_of_bread » Fri Jul 4, 2025 2:54 am

cmoss84 wrote:Rudy, Randle, and DDV
for
Porzingis and Daniels

Trey/DDV/Johnson/Randle/Rudy
Richesar 6th man

Mike/Ant/Daniels/Jaden/Porzingis
RD, Naz, TSJ, Clark, Joan


That's some next level thinking. Leaves us with no backup c, but like taking advantage of the 3 guys that will have substantially less value at the end of next season. Daniels is probably untouchable if I had to guess.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#946 » by shrink » Fri Jul 4, 2025 3:25 am

younggunsmn wrote:
winforlose wrote:
younggunsmn wrote:

I wouldn't get too excited.
MIN, BRK, GSW, and LAL only need to be looped in because of the draft pick trading in the 2nd round that Phoenix did with picks they got from Houston for Durant.
Houston and Atlanta have to be looped into the Durant trade to make the salary matching in the Capela sign and trade work.
(Interesting note, Atlanta got a 2031 2nd round pickswap for that which mirrors what we got from the Warriors in the Kyle Anderson deal last summer).

Every other player transaction (NAW, Finney-Smith) works as a separate transaction from the Durant trade.
Although if the Lakers could figure a way to get a TPE from Finney-Smith, it would be useful on their end.
But they could negotiate that separately with Houston and give them a small incentive.

Any team threatening to muck up the 2nd round draft pick dominoes by trying to extort more is just going to piss off a bunch of players, agents, and fellow GMs. I dont expect the trade to change at all from what's been reported unless some surprise team decides it wants Jalen Green or Dillon Brooks and their bad contracts.

And the Wolves are very likely finished when it comes to anything but a vet minimum addition.


Not that this will happen, nor that it should, but what happens if the Wolves don’t go along with the multi team framework. The deal they made was 31 for 36, they cannot exactly cancel it. If the Suns need the multi team to complete the deal, do the Wolves even have a choice other than to participate?


Wolves are not needed to make the rest work.
Trade down from 31 to 36 to 45 can be done as a 2nd set of post Durant trades since there is no salary involved.

If the Durant deal were to fall apart though, all those 2nd round pick transactions fall apart because they are predicated on picks the Suns received from Houston.

I don’t expect the picks to change.

I am saying that MIN could be snagging a cheap contract from one of these teams with the NAW sign-and-trade.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#947 » by winforlose » Fri Jul 4, 2025 4:49 am

cmoss84 wrote:Rudy, Randle, and DDV
for
Porzingis and Daniels

Trey/DDV/Johnson/Randle/Rudy
Richesar 6th man

Mike/Ant/Daniels/Jaden/Porzingis
RD, Naz, TSJ, Clark, Joan


KP is always hurt, and Daniels is not a PG. Having to rely on Mike at 38 and Dilly at 20 (his skill level last year was not NBA worthy,) with no trade bait is… problematic to say the least. Even if ATL threw in Tre I would still say no.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#948 » by Loaf_of_bread » Fri Jul 4, 2025 5:11 am

winforlose wrote:
cmoss84 wrote:Rudy, Randle, and DDV
for
Porzingis and Daniels

Trey/DDV/Johnson/Randle/Rudy
Richesar 6th man

Mike/Ant/Daniels/Jaden/Porzingis
RD, Naz, TSJ, Clark, Joan


KP is always hurt, and Daniels is not a PG. Having to rely on Mike at 38 and Dilly at 20 (his skill level last year was not NBA worthy,) with no trade bait is… problematic to say the least. Even if ATL threw in Tre I would still say no.


I would say that someone that thinks BBeal is someone we should consider isn't capable of talent evaluation.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#949 » by KGdaBom » Fri Jul 4, 2025 7:56 am

cmoss84 wrote:Rudy, Randle, and DDV
for
Porzingis and Daniels

Trey/DDV/Johnson/Randle/Rudy
Richesar 6th man

Mike/Ant/Daniels/Jaden/Porzingis
RD, Naz, TSJ, Clark, Joan

Zinger just can't stay healthy. I say hard no to that deal.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#950 » by winforlose » Fri Jul 4, 2025 4:59 pm

Loaf_of_bread wrote:
winforlose wrote:
cmoss84 wrote:Rudy, Randle, and DDV
for
Porzingis and Daniels

Trey/DDV/Johnson/Randle/Rudy
Richesar 6th man

Mike/Ant/Daniels/Jaden/Porzingis
RD, Naz, TSJ, Clark, Joan


KP is always hurt, and Daniels is not a PG. Having to rely on Mike at 38 and Dilly at 20 (his skill level last year was not NBA worthy,) with no trade bait is… problematic to say the least. Even if ATL threw in Tre I would still say no.


I would say that someone that thinks BBeal is someone we should consider isn't capable of talent evaluation.


So you think BBeal on a minimum is inferior to DDV? Or you think he is inferior to Conley playing off ball?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#951 » by winforlose » Fri Jul 4, 2025 5:12 pm

Question for everyone. Knowing that Jaron Jackson Jr is out for at least three months of the regular season, should we approach Memphis with a major deal? If we gave them Dilly, TSJ, Randle, and Rudy, could we get back JJJ and Ja? I cannot check the trade machine, but Memphis would have Edie and Wells plus our two sophomores plus two win now players in Randle and Rudy to try and keep this season from busting. We could also rework it, keep Rudy, send out DDV, I would not include Ant, Jaden, or Naz. I would not send out more than 4 rotation players.

If we had Ja/Ant/Jaden/Naz/JJJ with a bench of Conley/DDV/Clark/Joan is that a contender? Could Ja stay healthy and on the court? Can Ja and Ant function well together or are both too ball dominant? I am not sure myself. Again this is not a suggestion, just a question.

Update: Since trade machine cannot include Randle I did some math on my own. Ja and JJJ cost $72,446,090. Rudy costs 38, Randle 31 and change (not announced yet,) Dilly $6,576,120, and TSJ $2,674,080. Wolves outgoing would be approximately (need more specific Randle numbers, $78,250,200. need to investigate the cap. Griz might need/want it to be a 3 team.

Summary: Wolves outgoing approximately $78,250,200, Wolves incoming approximately 72,446,090. JA makes more than Rudy so we need to aggregate which hard caps at the 2nd apron. We need to backfill 2 roster spots as we go from 13 to 11. We add almost 6 million to our available space to do so. Probably sign a center with TPMLE and have that C start with JB backing him up till JJJ gets healthy.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#952 » by KGdaBom » Fri Jul 4, 2025 6:00 pm

winforlose wrote:Question for everyone. Knowing that Jaron Jackson Jr is out for at least three months of the regular season, should we approach Memphis with a major deal? If we gave them Dilly, TSJ, Randle, and Rudy, could we get back JJJ and Ja? I cannot check the trade machine, but Memphis would have Edie and Wells plus our two sophomores plus two win now players in Randle and Rudy to try and keep this season from busting. We could also rework it, keep Rudy, send out DDV, I would not include Ant, Jaden, or Naz. I would not send out more than 4 rotation players.

If we had Ja/Ant/Jaden/Naz/JJJ with a bench of Conley/DDV/Clark/Joan is that a contender? Could Ja stay healthy and on the court? Can Ja and Ant function well together or are both too ball dominant? I am not sure myself. Again this is not a suggestion, just a question.

Ja and JJJ are interesting. I haven't paid attention to Ja since he showed he was a POS a couple years ago. Has he reformed at all? It's interesting.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#953 » by cmoss84 » Fri Jul 4, 2025 8:36 pm

Loaf_of_bread wrote:
cmoss84 wrote:Rudy, Randle, and DDV
for
Porzingis and Daniels

Trey/DDV/Johnson/Randle/Rudy
Richesar 6th man

Mike/Ant/Daniels/Jaden/Porzingis
RD, Naz, TSJ, Clark, Joan


That's some next level thinking. Leaves us with no backup c, but like taking advantage of the 3 guys that will have substantially less value at the end of next season. Daniels is probably untouchable if I had to guess.

My thought process:
1) would rather have KP then Randle
2) would rather have Daniels and a FA big then Rudy and DDV
3) Naz would play some minutes at 4 and 5...KP plays 25 mpg
4) would be able to have KP and Joan on floor at times
5) perfect situation to cut cap with Atl trade exceptions
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#954 » by TimberKat » Sat Jul 5, 2025 12:17 am

cmoss84 wrote:
Loaf_of_bread wrote:
cmoss84 wrote:Rudy, Randle, and DDV
for
Porzingis and Daniels

Trey/DDV/Johnson/Randle/Rudy
Richesar 6th man

Mike/Ant/Daniels/Jaden/Porzingis
RD, Naz, TSJ, Clark, Joan


That's some next level thinking. Leaves us with no backup c, but like taking advantage of the 3 guys that will have substantially less value at the end of next season. Daniels is probably untouchable if I had to guess.

My thought process:
1) would rather have KP then Randle
2) would rather have Daniels and a FA big then Rudy and DDV
3) Naz would play some minutes at 4 and 5...KP plays 25 mpg
4) would be able to have KP and Joan on floor at times
5) perfect situation to cut cap with Atl trade exceptions

I will keep it simple with KP for Randle and take a chance on his injury.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#955 » by KGdaBom » Sat Jul 5, 2025 12:43 am

TimberKat wrote:
cmoss84 wrote:
Loaf_of_bread wrote:
That's some next level thinking. Leaves us with no backup c, but like taking advantage of the 3 guys that will have substantially less value at the end of next season. Daniels is probably untouchable if I had to guess.

My thought process:
1) would rather have KP then Randle
2) would rather have Daniels and a FA big then Rudy and DDV
3) Naz would play some minutes at 4 and 5...KP plays 25 mpg
4) would be able to have KP and Joan on floor at times
5) perfect situation to cut cap with Atl trade exceptions

I will keep it simple with KP for Randle and take a chance on his injury.

That's a losing bet I'm pretty sure.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#956 » by Loaf_of_bread » Sat Jul 5, 2025 12:49 am

winforlose wrote:
Loaf_of_bread wrote:
winforlose wrote:
KP is always hurt, and Daniels is not a PG. Having to rely on Mike at 38 and Dilly at 20 (his skill level last year was not NBA worthy,) with no trade bait is… problematic to say the least. Even if ATL threw in Tre I would still say no.


I would say that someone that thinks BBeal is someone we should consider isn't capable of talent evaluation.


So you think BBeal on a minimum is inferior to DDV? Or you think he is inferior to Conley playing off ball?


In what world would Beal be available on a minimum contract? Both (beal and ddv) have bad numbers in the playoffs.

I'd like to trade ddv myself.

Regardless, as I've been stating... find guys like Jaden... that are playoff assassins. Cold blooded guys that don't feel anxiety.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#957 » by TimberKat » Sat Jul 5, 2025 2:12 am

Loaf_of_bread wrote:
winforlose wrote:
Loaf_of_bread wrote:
I would say that someone that thinks BBeal is someone we should consider isn't capable of talent evaluation.


So you think BBeal on a minimum is inferior to DDV? Or you think he is inferior to Conley playing off ball?


In what world would Beal be available on a minimum contract? Both (beal and ddv) have bad numbers in the playoffs.

I'd like to trade ddv myself.

Regardless, as I've been stating... find guys like Jaden... that are playoff assassins. Cold blooded guys that don't feel anxiety.


If we could get Beal, I got for it. Just don't know how the buyout stuff works. We just need him to score off the bench.

Do you guys know how these buyout thing work? I though you can't sign buyout players who made big money if the team is over 1st apron. Why Lakers need to paid Ayton 8Mil? Is the salary in addition to his buyout? I was thinking POR gets the 8mil to reduce their buyout amt? If not, couldn't they just us 2Mil and save the rest for Beal.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#958 » by Note30 » Sat Jul 5, 2025 8:03 am

Can we still do a S&T at all this off-season?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#959 » by MN7725 » Sat Jul 5, 2025 8:47 am

Note30 wrote:Can we still do a S&T at all this off-season?


can do sign/trade up until day the season/games start
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning 

Post#960 » by shrink » Sat Jul 5, 2025 11:06 am

While Randle might be our most tradeable piece, I think people underestimate how much value there is that Randle wants to be here, when the random players we put into trade proposals might not.

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