The Andrew Wiggins Thread

[urinesane]

I'm going to laugh when AB outplays Wiggins in Mexico for Canada. I think it could happen as Wiggins driving will be taken away just like in college because the bigs can stay in the key whereas AB is designed for these Tourny's. In the international game you usually have to be able to man handle people or shoot the light out neither Wiggins is that good at.

Why would you laugh? It has almost zero meaning to actual NBA play. Do you laugh when Carmelo looks like a god compared to any other player in international play?

I actually think the International game is superior to the NBA so yes. International Basketball is a man's game where the refs don't favor stars and is much more physical. The NBA ,on the other hand, is like the WWE where the ultimate goal is to put on a show for the fans. In the NBA you get calls for who you are not what you do.

Spoiler:

[NBACommissioner]

Which is the league with the most talent, most popularity and highest level of competition? It's all good and nice that there are aspects that you like, but if you can't produce in the NBA what value does a player have when he is in the NBA?

it depends because there are NBA guys who would be shut down in International ball that exceed in the NBA. Wiggins was a pretty weak college player because he couldn't drive in a crowded key due to NCAA rules but he succeeds in the NBA game. I think the NBA favors Athleticism whereas International ball favors skill.

Dont buy what you're selling. There are Euro players that haven't done anything in the NBA because they didn't have the skill or athleticism. Heck even Jan Vesley who was a star overseas, strictly from his athleticism did nothing at all in the NBA.

Yea but look at what Argentina did in 2004 (won Gold and knocked out a US allstar team) who basically had 1 NBA star to go along with a couple NBA role players and a bunch of guys that couldn't crack the NBA. Spain has given the US fits too with a similar line up which shows that a lot of these NBA Allstars struggle to play the international game.

[Mattya]

Go look at the roster and and if you tell me that Argentinian team was more skilled than the US roster, than we really have nothing less to discuss. A one game elimination game does not mean that team is more skilled. It just means they played better together on that day.

[marty264]

I am more skilled than Andrew Wiggins in many areas. None of those skills are relevant to the NBA, no one on a Timberwolves forum is going to care about those skills in the slightest.

[NBACommissioner]

I am more skilled than Andrew Wiggins in many areas. None of those skills are relevant to the NBA, no one on a Timberwolves forum is going to care about those skills in the slightest.

Yea but we're talking about basketball skills not English skills...99.99999% of the world is more skilled than Wiggins in terms of speech.

[C.lupus]

I am more skilled than Andrew Wiggins in many areas. None of those skills are relevant to the NBA, no one on a Timberwolves forum is going to care about those skills in the slightest.

Yea but we're talking about basketball skills not English skills...99.99999% of the world is more skilled than Wiggins in terms of speech.

Just stop.

[NBACommissioner]

Go look at the roster and and if you tell me that Argentinian team was more skilled than the US roster, than we really have nothing less to discuss. A one game elimination game does not mean that team is more skilled. It just means they played better together on that day.

I'm arguing that those NBA Superstars can't get by without the refs giving them star calls. If you're a good basketball player you should be able to succeed in the international game. many top players struggle internationally whereas guys who play in Europe kill at it. Even Kobe has said those league are more skill-based.

[Takingbaconback]

Rofl Bennett > wiggins in any scenario? My god

[Mattya]

Go look at the roster and and if you tell me that Argentinian team was more skilled than the US roster, than we really have nothing less to discuss. A one game elimination game does not mean that team is more skilled. It just means they played better together on that day.

I'm arguing that those NBA Superstars can't get by without the refs giving them star calls. If you're a good basketball player you should be able to succeed in the international game. many top players struggle internationally whereas guys who play in Europe kill at it. Even Kobe has said those league are more skill-based.

And Tim Duncan hated fiba rules. I guess he isn't a good basketball player.

[Flight33]

I am more skilled than Andrew Wiggins in many areas. None of those skills are relevant to the NBA, no one on a Timberwolves forum is going to care about those skills in the slightest.

Yea but we're talking about basketball skills not English skills...99.99999% of the world is more skilled than Wiggins in terms of speech.

Smh, you sound so foolish.

[Sugarless]

Which is the league with the most talent, most popularity and highest level of competition? It's all good and nice that there are aspects that you like, but if you can't produce in the NBA what value does a player have when he is in the NBA?

it depends because there are NBA guys who would be shut down in International ball that exceed in the NBA. Wiggins was a pretty weak college player because he couldn't drive in a crowded key due to NCAA rules but he succeeds in the NBA game. I think the NBA favors Athleticism whereas International ball favors skill.

Dont buy what you're selling. There are Euro players that haven't done anything in the NBA because they didn't have the skill or athleticism. Heck even Jan Vesley who was a star overseas, strictly from his athleticism did nothing at all in the NBA.

I don't know who told you Vesely was a star in Europe, but you are misinformed. He was a very good player due to his athleticism and a better project because of his age, but he was far from a household name. And he's one of the least representative guys regarding European players coming over to the NBA in terms of skill, so you couldn't have found a much worse choice in order to dispute Europe's talent.

Europe is in average more talented in terms of basketball IQ, fundamentals and team play (*), because that's what kids are taught since they are 6-7 years old and they begin playing ball. In the US, on the other hand, guys are much more athletic and you have plenty of kids who have spent years working mostly on their individual skills, where you could say they are more advanced in average.

The US still have the biggest amount of talent compared to any European country cause you have a solid structure and system in play, but also because you are way bigger than any European nation other than Russia, and soccer still captivates 90% of the sports world attention over here. But in the end no one can dispute the US still lead any other single country (now, if it was about a real USA vs Europe game, that would really be interesting).

As for the NBA against the Euroleague (which is stronger than any national league here), let's just say that European basketball and NBA basketball are just different. The NBA has a much bigger concentration of talent and it's more physical in terms of the strength of most players, but it's also a league that's more focused on individual stars and the show business than team play and fundamentals, as in Europe where the game is also more physical in terms of contact allowed. The good news is team play is beginning to become more of a trend lately in the NBA, so the league is improving on that aspect. Now if they got rid of the star calls and anyone actually called the constant palming, travelling and double-dribbling that goes on and on in every game... But well, that would hamper most stars and would work against the spectacle, so I won't hold my breath.

PS: l know the drill, so if anyone feels tempted please don't come up with how this or that NBA guy has a great IQ and is an excellent team player, we're talking about the average player here.

[Mattya]

it depends because there are NBA guys who would be shut down in International ball that exceed in the NBA. Wiggins was a pretty weak college player because he couldn't drive in a crowded key due to NCAA rules but he succeeds in the NBA game. I think the NBA favors Athleticism whereas International ball favors skill.

Dont buy what you're selling. There are Euro players that haven't done anything in the NBA because they didn't have the skill or athleticism. Heck even Jan Vesley who was a star overseas, strictly from his athleticism did nothing at all in the NBA.

I don't know who told you Vesely was a star in Europe, but you are misinformed. He was a very good player due to his athleticism and a better project because of his age, but he was far from a household name. And he's one of the least representative guys regarding European players coming over to the NBA in terms of skill, so you couldn't have found a much worse choice in order to dispute Europe's talent.

Europe is in average more talented in terms of basketball IQ, fundamentals and team play (*), because that's what kids are taught since they are 6-7 years old and they begin playing ball. In the US, on the other hand, guys are much more athletic and you have plenty of kids who have spent years working mostly on their individual skills, where you could say they are more advanced in average.

The US still have the biggest amount of talent compared to any European country cause you have a solid structure and system in play, but also because you are way bigger than any European nation other than Russia, and soccer still captivates 90% of the sports world attention over here. But in the end no one can dispute the US still lead any other single country (now, if it was about a real USA vs Europe game, that would really be interesting).

As for the NBA against the Euroleague (which is stronger than any national league here), let's just say that European basketball and NBA basketball are just different. The NBA has a much bigger concentration of talent and it's more physical in terms of the strength of most players, but it's also a league that's more focused on individual stars and the show business than team play and fundamentals, as in Europe where the game is also more physical in terms of contact allowed. The good news is team play is beginning to become more of a trend lately in the NBA, so the league is improving on that aspect. Now if they got rid of the star calls and anyone actually called the constant palming, travelling and double-dribbling that goes on and on in every game... But well, that would hamper most stars and would work against the spectacle, so I won't hold my breath.

PS: l know the drill, so if anyone feels tempted please don't come up with how this or that NBA guy has a great IQ and is an excellent team player, we're talking about the average player here.

I was speaking generally. The point was that he was significantly better in Europe as a player, then came to the NBA and was compete trash.

For clarification do you believe the average NBA player is less skilled than the average European player?

[NBACommissioner]

Go look at the roster and and if you tell me that Argentinian team was more skilled than the US roster, than we really have nothing less to discuss. A one game elimination game does not mean that team is more skilled. It just means they played better together on that day.

I'm arguing that those NBA Superstars can't get by without the refs giving them star calls. If you're a good basketball player you should be able to succeed in the international game. many top players struggle internationally whereas guys who play in Europe kill at it. Even Kobe has said those league are more skill-based.

And Tim Duncan hated fiba rules. I guess he isn't a good basketball player.

No because he was actually good in his limited International play. Hating the rules is also a different argument than whether or not the international game is more skill-based than the NBA.

[Mattya]

I'm arguing that those NBA Superstars can't get by without the refs giving them star calls. If you're a good basketball player you should be able to succeed in the international game. many top players struggle internationally whereas guys who play in Europe kill at it. Even Kobe has said those league are more skill-based.

And Tim Duncan hated fiba rules. I guess he isn't a good basketball player.

No because he was actually good in his limited International play. Hating the rules is also a different argument than whether or not the international game is more skill-based than the NBA.

It isn't more skill based, it is more team based. I tried reasoning with you, but I'm done with this.

[NBACommissioner]

Rofl Bennett > wiggins in any scenario? My god

Yea well check this out...

Tim Duncan Pan Am games PPG 15.6 8 Reb 3.4 APG 61.9 FG%

Anthony Bennett Pan Am games PPG 15.6 PPG 9.4 RPG APG 1.2 63.9 FG% .....Bennett shoots 3's too Duncan shot none.

[C.lupus]

What does all this Europe vs. NBA stuff have to do with Wiggins again?

[C.lupus]

Rofl Bennett > wiggins in any scenario? My god

Yea well check this out...

Tim Duncan Pan Am games PPG 15.6 8 Reb 3.4 APG 61.9 FG%

Anthony Bennett Pan Am games PPG 15.6 PPG 9.4 RPG APG 1.2 63.9 FG% .....Bennett shoots 3's too Duncan shot none.

This is the Wiggins thread. Use the Bennett thread to prop up your boy.

[NBACommissioner]

Rofl Bennett > wiggins in any scenario? My god

Yea well check this out...

Tim Duncan Pan Am games PPG 15.6 8 Reb 3.4 APG 61.9 FG%

Anthony Bennett Pan Am games PPG 15.6 PPG 9.4 RPG APG 1.2 63.9 FG% .....Bennett shoots 3's too Duncan shot none.

This is the Wiggins thread. Use the Bennett thread to prop up your boy.

true sorry

[NBACommissioner]

What does all this Europe vs. NBA stuff have to do with Wiggins again?

I was saying that Wiggins and many athletes for that matter thrive in the NBA because it's rules promote athletes. Whereas in Fiba a player like Wiggins could struggle because he isn't super skilled at this point and the international game is much more skill based than NBA where you can get by with superior athleticism and weak fundamental skills. If Wiggins can't knock down threes consistently he's going to have a tough time i'd think because the key will be jammed just like college.

[Sugarless]

For clarification do you believe the average NBA player is less skilled than the average European player?

I believe there are different skills. The average NBA player is more skilled athletically and individually (things like ballhandling, creating your own shot...), while the average European player shows better fundamentals, team skills and IQ in general.

Part of it is also how the game is called on each side of the pond, which is a huge factor for how it affects players' development first and performance later (European stars need to adjust to the NBA game just like NBA stars would need to adjust to strict FIBA rules -not the ones allowed during the Olympics and WC, by the way-).

Now, if what you want to know is if I think the NBA has the best players overall, that's out of the question, the NBA does possess the best concentration of players compared to any other national league, period. Basketball is too big in the States compared to Europe overall (those Lithuanians though...) even without it being the top sport in the country, and the athletic advantage is too important in a sport like this one.