Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[minimus]

Wolves could do better things with a top 5 protected pick tbh and no Nance jr.

It depends on Garuba value, my trade makes sense if Garuba has potential as undersized defensive minded big man. Also Nance Jr might play better for us than for POR.

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

Time to revise all HOU trades?

Gordon, Theis, Garuba for Beasley, Prince, Layman, top5 protected FRP, and SPR

I gotta have more context for what was said before I revise interest in Wood. I admit it sounds very very bad. But without context it is impossible to fully understand what caused this.

Regardless of context in this concrete situation with Wood, I think it is time for HOU to trade Gordon, Theis and Wood. I more interested in Gordon because he is a much better scorer than Beasley, perfect 6th man to battle for playoff spot.

[winforlose]

Read on Twitter

Time to revise all HOU trades?

Gordon, Theis, Garuba for Beasley, Prince, Layman, top5 protected FRP, and SPR

I gotta have more context for what was said before I revise interest in Wood. I admit it sounds very very bad. But without context it is impossible to fully understand what caused this.

Regardless of context in this concrete situation with Wood, I think it is time for HOU to trade Gordon, Theis and Wood. I more interested in Gordon because he is a much better scorer than Beasley, perfect 6th man to battle for playoff spot.

I did a quick scan for news on this and I got a different story. Wood was benched at the start for a team rule violation. When he got into the game he couldn’t get in rhythm and had a -17 on plus minus. In the second half the coach informed him he was benched (the article presumes because of his bad play,) then he threw the towel and had his hands on his head in frustration. Either way, it is a bad sign. That said, playing on a losing team waiting for a trade is frustrating. Overall, I still want him, but maybe the price tag will go down if he has a reputation for being a problem.

[shrink]

Read on Twitter

Time to revise all HOU trades?

Gordon, Theis, Garuba for Beasley, Prince, Layman, top5 protected FRP, and SPR

Gordon is playing well, but he’s 33, injury prone, and sitting on a $19 mil salary for two years. I think HOU would prefer the 25 year old Beasley at a cheaper price. Theis is 29, and has been mediocre, and is just starting a $9 mil a year for four year deals - a very big commitment for a back up center. I think from a value standpoint alone, giving up a 1st is an overpay.

Finch has put together a starting line up with a +49.2 Net Rating. I don’t think he is going to upset that, so any deal we make is for back ups. While Gordon is better than Beverley, there is no guarantee DLo is going to play defense if Bev is on the bench - in fact, I listened to one of Dane’s podcasts last month that said that Russell’s good defensive numbers were exclusively when he was paired with Bev.

I like looking at HOU. Maybe there are pieces there that a motivated Gupta would look at to improve our bench and increase our chances of making the playoffs. But I think after the waiting on the DLo pick we gave up, and having no picks at all in the last draft, it will be difficult for MIN to trade a 1st for better back up players.

[Note30]

Read on Twitter

Time to revise all HOU trades?

Gordon, Theis, Garuba for Beasley, Prince, Layman, top5 protected FRP, and SPR

I gotta have more context for what was said before I revise interest in Wood. I admit it sounds very very bad. But without context it is impossible to fully understand what caused this.

No need for context, **** all of that.

[shrink]

Btw, here’s the MIN piece of a trade on the Trade Board

MIN GETS: Bullock / Kleber
DAL GETS: Layman / Prince / Okogie / Wolves 22 (lot pro)

MIN is unlikely to alter its highly productive starting line up unless they were to get a true star, so I have questioned whether they would give up any 1st to upgrade their bench. However, this deal upgrades two bench rotation spots (Okogie and Prince to Kleber and Bullock), and the players coming in aren’t merely rentals. MIN isn’t a free agent destination, and they would be unlikely to get better players for that same amount of payroll. Sachin Gupta is incentivized to do “something,” to get ARod and Lore to give him the GM job full time this summer, so this seems like the type of deal I’d expect.

The one-year limit on the 2022 pick is a big deal for MIN, who had to wait and worry about being tied up by the Stepian Rule for months, and then had no picks, 1st or 2nd, in the last draft. A deal where the pick was lottery protected for several years out would make that much less palatable, maybe even pushing it into the “No” category for two guys that would be role players. I think though that if the Wolves miss the playoffs and end in the lottery, they should be sending out two 2022 2nds (they have three).

I’d imagine this is a Yes from MIN, and I applaud you for threading the needle to find a deal for a team who’s delicate balancing act makes trading very difficult.

[old school 34]

I gotta have more context for what was said before I revise interest in Wood. I admit it sounds very very bad. But without context it is impossible to fully understand what caused this.

Regardless of context in this concrete situation with Wood, I think it is time for HOU to trade Gordon, Theis and Wood. I more interested in Gordon because he is a much better scorer than Beasley, perfect 6th man to battle for playoff spot.

I did a quick scan for news on this and I got a different story. Wood was benched at the start for a team rule violation. When he got into the game he couldn’t get in rhythm and had a -17 on plus minus. In the second half the coach informed him he was benched (the article presumes because of his bad play,) then he threw the towel and had his hands on his head in frustration. Either way, it is a bad sign. That said, playing on a losing team waiting for a trade is frustrating. Overall, I still want him, but maybe the price tag will go down if he has a reputation for being a problem.

Christian Wood was completely out of the league & lost a lot of draft stock already once before ....because of attitude &/or work ethic concerns, no?

Now, to his credit....he busted his tail &/or matured enough to work his way back into the league....that said, it won't take much to significantly decrease his value with a real or perceived track record.

Definitely worth tracking for sure...as I'd think Hou wants to do everything humanly possible to give Silas a chance with minimal drama after what he needed to endure last year.

For me, less interested in Woods...but have some interest in Gordon on the right deal &/or something like my previously posted 3-teamer w/ Min/Hou/Char.

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[Mamba4Goat]

Have Nathan Knight and Jaylen Nowell made Malik Beasley and Naz Reid expendable? If so, what would you guys trade them for?

[winforlose]

Have Nathan Knight and Jaylen Nowell made Malik Beasley and Naz Reid expendable? If so, what would you guys trade them for?

Beasley is expendable because his production has been down all year. He is also the salary needed to make a big trade work. Nowell might not score as many points as Beasley, but he is a more dynamic offensive player who can create his own shot. I would say with consistent minutes he is more valuable than Beasley now.

Knight is not better than Naz. His floor spacing is not there, his shot blocking is not as consistent, and while he is better off the drive than Naz, Knights inside game is nowhere near as dynamic.

Trading Naz makes us thinner at C. If we are committed to Moose than I would give him those minutes and keep Knight at 3rd string.

I think AD might be viable if we want him. The Lakers are disappointed with him and are finding more success with Lebron at C. In the long term with Lebron getting old and Davis being disappointing relative to his salary, trading in Leo, and Naz alongside Beasley and Prince might get something done. Of course we would need to take someone back as well (cannot trade four for one.) There are other guys like Turner, Wood, Theis, Toppin, Paul Reed, and more we could aim for depending on price and role we want them to play.

One final thought for people saying don’t mess with this starting five. They played 10 games together. Opponent strength in those 10 games fluctuated quite a bit. Also remember that our team is streaky and some of those games happened when streaky players were playing well. 10 games is too small a sample size to hang the rest of this season on.

[wolves_89]

Have Nathan Knight and Jaylen Nowell made Malik Beasley and Naz Reid expendable? If so, what would you guys trade them for?

I'd say Beasley is more expendable than Reid. Unless the Wolves acquire another legitimate big, the team really needs Reid's size. I see Knight as more of a backup PF than a C and would love to see him taking over the bench PF minutes (with McDaniels primarily staying at SF). I think Beasley's minutes could be redistributed between Nowell/McDaniels (and maybe Bolmaro at some point) without losing much overall.

[shrink]

[*]

Have Nathan Knight and Jaylen Nowell made Malik Beasley and Naz Reid expendable? If so, what would you guys trade them for?

No. Jaylen Nowell is like Edwards, not Beasley. MIN is #1 in 3PA and #23 I’m 3P%. Nowell is shooting 3’s better this season, but he’s not a better 3P shooter than Beasley over a larger sample. To play this style, MIN can’t trade away three point shooting.

And Naz Reid is like Towns-lite, not Nathan Knight. We don’t really have a big enough sample yet to know what Knight is.

The truth here is that MIN has several players that have one great skill, and often big weaknesses. To Finch’s credit, he has played this roster well, matching players to situations where they were providing what the team needed. If you remove these guys, it takes away many of the notes Finch might need. Another positive is if Ant or Towns miss time, we can insert a similar (but lesser) player, and the starters had experience doing the same roles.

I used to think Beasley needed to be traded, along with Reid and Okogie, to provide minutes for other players. But the other players don’t do what the originals do. I think players like Prince, Layman, etc are more likely to be in a trade, though they would generally be considered valueless unless we use them as expirings to take on a longer deal.

[shangrila]

Have Nathan Knight and Jaylen Nowell made Malik Beasley and Naz Reid expendable? If so, what would you guys trade them for?

Not really, but I do think they’re expendable for different reasons.

Beasley has largely sucked this season, as a 3pt specialist that’s average at hitting 3s. He brings little else offensively and, while he tries on defence, he’s still not good on that end. So I’d move him, ideally for someone who can play the 3 to give Nowell some more time.

Reid is due a new contract this season so I’d rather move him for value now. As someone said he’s Towns-lite…but that’s honestly not a great player. Ok 3pt shooting, average at best defence and a subpar rebounder isn’t anything amazing. And while I wouldn’t necessarily replace him with Knight, I would look for just a solid low minutes vet to back KAT up.

[old school 34]

Have Nathan Knight and Jaylen Nowell made Malik Beasley and Naz Reid expendable? If so, what would you guys trade them for?

Not really, but I do think they’re expendable for different reasons.

Beasley has largely sucked this season, as a 3pt specialist that’s average at hitting 3s. He brings little else offensively and, while he tries on defence, he’s still not good on that end. So I’d move him, ideally for someone who can play the 3 to give Nowell some more time.

Reid is due a new contract this season so I’d rather move him for value now. As someone said he’s Towns-lite…but that’s honestly not a great player. Ok 3pt shooting, average at best defence and a subpar rebounder isn’t anything amazing. And while I wouldn’t necessarily replace him with Knight, I would look for just a solid low minutes vet to back KAT up.

Good talker on this question...I like how Shrink pointed out that from a skillet perspective....these guys are direct replacements....that said, they do appear to be the positive assets I'm most willing to give up (in conjunction with filler stuff) to make a deal....that said, it's a margins trade at best....& I'm looking to find a better version even of say that same skillet.

As example, would I rather have McDermott, Gordon, T. Ross, or Reddish instead of Beasley...so I still have some version of a 3 pt shooter....but someone that compliments Nowell better where they could play together in a 2nd unit.

The big situation is slightly different...because I agree that Knight might be more 4 than 5 (say more V8 than Naz).....that said, it's still a little similar in that I feel Naz is probably best-suited to be a team's 4th big & Knight could be our 4th big instead....we just need that other missing big compliment for our big rotation. And I might admittedly undervalue Naz some.....because I fear Naz' next deal is more D. Theis like vs V8 like.

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[Mamba4Goat]

My thing with both players is that while being direct downgrades in terms of talent, they’re upgrades in terms of skill sets and what the team needs. From the guard spots the team sorely needs creation and that’s what Nowell offers while being able to replace Beas’s offensive output in a different but adjacent way.

For the bigs it’s the same thing. Naz is a better player but Knight is more of a 4/5 rather than a 5/4. He’s faster, stronger, and provides the much needed blend of size, offense, and defense. Him and KAT could be what folks think Naz and KAT could be.

[Neeva]

With Wood and Porter Jr having attitude problems and only one year left in their contracts the most I would offer is Beasley and a lotto protected pick:/

Then Trade Okogie, Prince, Reid for whatever Wolves can get.

[shrink]

I should add one other factor here, a difference between whether we’d trade Beasley or Naz.

Trading Beasley would likely mean we are selling him low. He not only is underperforming his last two seasons here, but any team that trades for him also has to talk to the media about Beasley’s gun charge. For that reason, he is probably worth less to others than he is to us.

Naz, on the other hand, may be a “more valuable to others than to us” kind of guy, which makes him a trade candidate. I think there are a handful of teams where he could start, but here his minutes will always be limited by KAT. We also have time pressure to trade him based on his contract. If we make him an RFA this summer, those teams might offer him some low-end starter money, and he would not be worth that contract to us as KAT’s back up. Trading him now, to a team that wants him to audition before signing him to that contract has value. Now of course, we need his size, so we would need alternatives ready to go. I still think it’s unlikely Naz gets traded, but if Gupta gets a positive offer, we might see that arrow in Finch’s quiver get replaced.

Either way, we’re not talking about a lot in return. Beasley may bring back a less productive expiring. Naz might be worth a couple 2nds, or be seen as additional incentive to push a larger trade through. In any case, these returns might not be worth it to Finch or Gupta to make a change in our team chemistry.

[Klomp]

If the luxury tax line is an issue, I doubt it would be hard to move Layman in a deal that would save a million or two.

I wanted to bring this over from the Protocols thread to bring something up as an idea. I'm not sure most people will be willing to just take a $3.9 million cap hit for Layman.....unless they are getting something in exchange for it. It may be a 1st round pick or getting off extra years of a deal. As an example (in contract status only), someone like Trey Burke in Dallas would be the type of contract to target if Dallas doesn't want the Hassell of his player option. Sending out a 1st may be in return for someone like Cam Reddish, though that doesn't lower our books.

[wolves_89]

If the luxury tax line is an issue, I doubt it would be hard to move Layman in a deal that would save a million or two.

I wanted to bring this over from the Protocols thread to bring something up as an idea. I'm not sure most people will be willing to just take a $3.9 million cap hit for Layman.....unless they are getting something in exchange for it. It may be a 1st round pick or getting off extra years of a deal. As an example (in contract status only), someone like Trey Burke in Dallas would be the type of contract to target if Dallas doesn't want the Hassell of his player option. Sending out a 1st may be in return for someone like Cam Reddish, though that doesn't lower our books.

My thought was more along the lines of finding a team that really needs a big wing and trading Layman for a fairly useless guy making $2-3M on an expiring contact. The Wolves don't need much additional salary space below the luxury tax line to sign a 15th player for the minimum with a little cushion for additional 10-day deals.

[old school 34]

If the luxury tax line is an issue, I doubt it would be hard to move Layman in a deal that would save a million or two.

I wanted to bring this over from the Protocols thread to bring something up as an idea. I'm not sure most people will be willing to just take a $3.9 million cap hit for Layman.....unless they are getting something in exchange for it. It may be a 1st round pick or getting off extra years of a deal. As an example (in contract status only), someone like Trey Burke in Dallas would be the type of contract to target if Dallas doesn't want the Hassell of his player option. Sending out a 1st may be in return for someone like Cam Reddish, though that doesn't lower our books.

My thought was more along the lines of finding a team that really needs a big wing and trading Layman for a fairly useless guy making $2-3M on an expiring contact. The Wolves don't need much additional salary space below the luxury tax line to sign a 15th player for the minimum with a little cushion for additional 10-day deals.

Layman & a 2nd for K. Williams from OKC....would free up approx 2 mil?

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[Klomp]

If the luxury tax line is an issue, I doubt it would be hard to move Layman in a deal that would save a million or two.

I wanted to bring this over from the Protocols thread to bring something up as an idea. I'm not sure most people will be willing to just take a $3.9 million cap hit for Layman.....unless they are getting something in exchange for it. It may be a 1st round pick or getting off extra years of a deal. As an example (in contract status only), someone like Trey Burke in Dallas would be the type of contract to target if Dallas doesn't want the Hassell of his player option. Sending out a 1st may be in return for someone like Cam Reddish, though that doesn't lower our books.

My thought was more along the lines of finding a team that really needs a big wing and trading Layman for a fairly useless guy making $2-3M on an expiring contact. The Wolves don't need much additional salary space below the luxury tax line to sign a 15th player for the minimum with a little cushion for additional 10-day deals.

These are the types of trades that flood RealGM's trade checker, but frankly I just don't see actual teams making. Layman in himself isn't that valuable right now.

I see him being stretched as a more likely possibility than this in all honesty.