College players thread/ Draft Related thread

[Jonathan Watters]

This has been discussed at length.

[Jonathan Watters]

O
He also has a drive to compete, he loves being dominant defensively and he thinks he can do it every night. He's even got a bit of a chip on his shoulder which can be a good and a bad thing.

I see the exact opposite of this. There are some nights when he has zero intentions of dominating defensively. And this isn't a new phenomenon.

To his detriment, he still looks like Bambi out there sometimes. He's got a lot of learning to do. Especially on offense. That said, he'll give whatever team drafts him a defensive shot in the arm.

IMO, his offense is more than good enough where he can get by. Anything he gives you on that end is just a bonus.

[Krapinsky]

My rankings based on fit
1. Rubio
2. Thabeet
3. Evans
4. Harden
5. Holiday
6. Clark
7. Aldrich
8. Aminu
9. Jennings
10. Clark

Is the 'fit' based on the infusion of talent here? Unless you see Foye getting traded or going back to the point, I don't see how Harden is a better 'fit' than the people you listed below him.

I think Harden can play next to Foye. Harden is a good enough ball handler and facilitator to run the offense through him. Foye can play off the ball at the 1 in a Fisher/Chalmers like role. My guess is Foye's efficiency would sky rocket since he is such a good spot up shooter on the perimeter.

[PeeDee]

Or to improve his draft stock....

$$$$

Sure you can make that argument, but by doing so you're saying a couple of things.

1. That last year he wouldn't have been a very high pick. I think he would've gone top 15.
2. That being a higher draft pick is more important than getting through your rookie contract earlier and thus, getting paid the big bucks, sooner.


While money is probably a driver for all the prospects in one manner or another, I do think that Thabeet wanted to get better before entering the league. He obviously likes playing basketball, he's been getting better every year. So while, money definitely is a part of that equation, so is getting better, which is encouraging.

[deeney0]

Watters, so who do you like for the Wolves in the 5-9 range? Say Rubio, Griffin, Harden, and Thabeet are off the table.

[Krapinsky]

The #4 pick makes nearly double what the #15 does over the life of the contract. That's guaranteed money, which is much important than hoping for a big payday someday down the road. It's hard to say what motivates a player. As you said, a lot of factors go into their decision to remain in school.

[Jonathan Watters]

Watters, so who do you like for the Wolves in the 5-9 range? Say Rubio, Griffin, Harden, and Thabeet are off the table.

I take a flier on Jrue Holiday or Jeff Teague. Depending on what happens from here, maybe even AFA. I'd avoid Jordan Hill, Earl Clark, Tyreke Evans, Cole Aldrich and Stephen Curry. Jennings too much of an unknown for me to say anything about. Greg Monroe and DaJuan Blair out of the discussion because of position. Seems a bit too high for Gerald Henderson, but if he does well in the tourney I can see him factoring in closer to #9.

[PeeDee]

Can we please start referring to Aminu as ALFA? I'd be fine with ALF too.

[deeney0]

I take a flier on Jrue Holiday or Jeff Teague. Depending on what happens from here, maybe even AFA. I'd avoid Jordan Hill, Earl Clark, Tyreke Evans, Cole Aldrich and Stephen Curry. Jennings too much of an unknown for me to say anything about. Greg Monroe and DaJuan Blair out of the discussion because of position. Seems a bit too high for Gerald Henderson, but if he does well in the tourney I can see him factoring in closer to #9.

I agree with all the avoids except Tyreke Evans - what don't you like about him? From the mocks, top 10 may be high for him from a value perspective, but from what I've seen he seems to have legit tools that will transition to the NBA.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person wary of Curry.

[Jonathan Watters]

I'll admit I haven't seen him play in a while, so the tourney will be big for my opinion of him. But the main gist is that he's a scorer first and foremost without anything else to add. I don't see him being very successful as a complementary player, and I'm doubting that his talent level is higher than that of a #1 scorer on a crappy team.

Maybe my opinion changes after a full conference slate of experience for him - it certainly made a difference for Rose - but I'm just not sold at the moment.

[john2jer]

I am curious of your opinion on DaJuan Summers. He was probably my favorite mid-1st level talent in this draft, but the word is he's going to stay another year. He seems to be a SF in the Marvin Williams, Ryan Gomes kind of mold. A 3/4 with range, length, and a solid frame.

My dream draft a couple weeks ago when we were looking at the 7th pick was something around Tyreke Evans, DaJuan Summers, and Jerome Jordan, thus filling our needs of a pig point next to Foye, a long SF with range who can rebound and play defense, as well as a shot blocking center.

Now as we're sitting a couple quality losses from the 4th pick it's changing to either...

Wolves - Rubio/Thabeet
Heat - DeRozan/DeRozan
Celtics - Jordan/(Lawson or Collison)

Still like Tyreke Evans, and the Jazz pick makes things interesting, although it would be great if we could package it with the Miami pick and move up to maybe somewhere around 10-12 and get Evans there with Thabeet with our 1st pick.

What second rounders are you watching? Greivis Vasquez is intriguing.

[PeeDee]

Still like Tyreke Evans, and the Jazz pick makes things interesting, although it would be great if we could package it with the Miami pick and move up to maybe somewhere around 10-12 and get Evans there with Thabeet with our 1st pick.

That draft would exponentially improve our defense. Crowd loving it indeed.

This draft has a chance to be a really good time. With all the assets that the Wolves have, they will be in the driver's seat. (4 picks, 2 huge expirings, young/cheap talent)

However, I realize there's a chance we are not proactive enough and we'll come out of the draft just okay instead of clear winners.

[Zeitgeister]

Watters, so who do you like for the Wolves in the 5-9 range? Say Rubio, Griffin, Harden, and Thabeet are off the table.

I take a flier on Jrue Holiday or Jeff Teague. Depending on what happens from here, maybe even AFA. I'd avoid Jordan Hill, Earl Clark, Tyreke Evans, Cole Aldrich and Stephen Curry. Jennings too much of an unknown for me to say anything about. Greg Monroe and DaJuan Blair out of the discussion because of position. Seems a bit too high for Gerald Henderson, but if he does well in the tourney I can see him factoring in closer to #9.

I've been high on Jrue Holiday for awhile now, and even though his numbers certainly don't jump out at you I could see him becoming a great player. I've had to temper my enthusiasm for him a little bit though because he has been inconsistent at times. He's such an intelligent player, he has shown the passing ability to be a good point guard, his defense may end up being elite, and he has the potential to be a more then capable scorer.

I have heard it may be the UCLA system he's in, but that may be part of the reason why his numbers don't look so gaudy, it certainly doesn't help that he doesn't get to play point guard either. When I look at his game offensively, the potential seems to be there, his shooting mechanics look pretty good and he can break his man off the dribble and finish with either hand. Of course there are some inconsistenties there but I think with experience he's the type of player that could put it all together.

As far as Jeff Teague is concerned, i'm not really sure about him. On one hand he's obviously a very capable scorer but do you think he will be able to play the point guard position in the NBA?

[john2jer]

Comparisons between Westbrook and Holiday? Seems like similar situations at least, which is promising. Westbrook has been a stud lately.

Teague looks like a nice player, but not for the Wolves. He just reminds me of Jason Terry.

[Jonathan Watters]

I am curious of your opinion on DaJuan Summers. He was probably my favorite mid-1st level talent in this draft, but the word is he's going to stay another year. He seems to be a SF in the Marvin Williams, Ryan Gomes kind of mold. A 3/4 with range, length, and a solid frame.

Talented, excellent combination of athleticism and skill. Sort of a knucklehead though. Needed to pick up more of the slack this year. Lazy as a defender. You have to love the talent, but when it comes to the high risk/high upside guys that we were discussing earlier I take Aminu every time.

What second rounders are you watching? Greivis Vasquez is intriguing.

I absolutely love Vasquez. On the Telfair thread we are talking about guys who have poor efficiency when playing a more important role, well Vasquez is that guy. I'd like to think that if he had a few teammates he wouldn't have to shoot nearly as many difficult outside shots.

He's a hothead, but the good kind. Makes everyone around him better and has the size to make up for a little of the physical/athletic disadvantage he's at. I wonder why everybody gushes over Nick Calathes and doesn't give Vasquez a second thought. Are they really that different, other than Vasquez having to play one-on-five every time out?

Nonetheless, it is hard to justify spending too high a pick on a guy with such poor numbers and the body of a high schooler. Some of his poor decision making is just the load he has to carry, but he has a second ballhandler next to him at Maryland and there were some similar issues in the olympic qualifying tournament where he didn't have to play that way.

Lots of upside at some point in the late first/early second, though.

[Klomp]

Dexter Pittman anyone?

[john2jer]

Summers seems to have gotten over the knuckleheadedness(how's that for a word) that he showed last year. More of a "leader" this year. Maybe a little lazy as a defender, but he definitely has the skill, size, and ability to be a good defender. Motivation maybe? He seems to have slipped from where he was early in the season as far as the draft. Early mocks had him mid first, around the Miami pick. Recently he's dropped to late 1st or early 2nd, thus meaning he'll probably stay for another year.

Aminu is a top 15 talent, if not top 10. So yeah we'd probably prefer Aminu straight-up, but when comparing value and what we'd need to do to get them, I'd rather spend the Miami or Utah pick on Summers than our own pick on Aminu, if that makes sense. Just because the difference between Aminu and Summers, I don't think, is as great as the difference between say Harden and Turner or Thabeet and Mullens/Jordan.

I was lovin all over Vasquez early in the season. If we don't get a big guard like Evans or Holiday in the 1st round, I'd jump all over Vasquez with our 1st pick in the 2nd round, or maybe even the Boston pick depending on how the rest of the 1st round went. Like if we got Thabeet, and packaged to move up to Aminu or Clark fell, then Vasquez would be a great big point to get at the end of the 1st. Your evaluation is pretty much the same as mine. He can be a little wild at times, but mostly due to him having to do so much for that team. If he slowed down a bit, paired him with Foye and/or Miller, I think he could relax and just play without shouldering so much of the load. Although I'd prefer Evans if we were able to package to get him and Thabeet, or just take Evans straight out if Thabeet was gone and we got jumped and pushed back to the 7th or 8th pick somehow.

[revprodeji]

I was lovin all over Vasquez early in the season..

[john2jer]

I was lovin all over Vasquez early in the season..

I put more concern in your reaction than my sentence.

Get your mind out of the gutter. I think the phrase "no homo" which is apparently an internet "phenomenon" is about the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

EDIT: That is of course if your reaction wasn't related to your opinion on Vasquez and you don't think as highly as I do, then I'm the weirdo for thinking you're thinking I was thinking dirty.

[revprodeji]

I think the only way someone could not take that sentence "dirty" is if they can not read. "lovin all over" I almost thought it would be a new rap song.