Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[shrink]

If we needed incentives to clear Layman’s cap hit, (for example, if we were trying to find room to sign Monroe!), we could offer a second rounder (we have three this year) or up to $5,167,000 in cash.

Finding the right team is a little more difficult. Only OKC has cap space left, though other teams can absorb him into their TPE’s, if they are far enough under the lux to make it profitable. The other method is through trades. Often teams can include a salary like Layman if the deal is big enough to allow a large enough gap for salary matching (and again, they probably want to have that room under the lux). Keep in mind deals like this usually don’t happen until the Trade Deadline (Thursday, February 10th) so that the original team has paid the bulk of his salary.

[winforlose]

If we needed incentives to clear Layman’s cap hit, (for example, if we were trying to find room to sign Monroe!), we could offer a second rounder (we have three this year) or up to $5,167,000 in cash.

Finding the right team is a little more difficult. Only OKC has cap space left, though other teams can absorb him into their TPE’s, if they are far enough under the lux to make it profitable. The other method is through trades. Often teams can include a salary like Layman if the deal is big enough to allow a large enough gap for salary matching (and again, they probably want to have that room under the lux). Keep in mind deals like this usually don’t happen until the Trade Deadline (Thursday, February 10th) so that the original team has paid the bulk of his salary.

You pair Layman with JO or Leo as part of a different deal. Leo is clearly two years away from contributing and we are trying to get something going now. Layman is a nice chunk of expiring salary and in theory multi positional depth for a playoff team in need of a passable #15 on their bench. I still like the idea of trying to get Paul Reed or Obi Toppin and using Layman’s expiring money as a part of that deal. Again, it would be more complicated than a salary dump, but also far from the sexy trades that fill trade articles and blog spaces.

[shrink]

I think Naz’ 20-10 tonight shows what he could be on another team, if he wasn’t playing behind Towns,

[minimus]

Btw, here’s the MIN piece of a trade on the Trade Board

MIN GETS: Bullock / Kleber
DAL GETS: Layman / Prince / Okogie / Wolves 22 (lot pro)

MIN is unlikely to alter its highly productive starting line up unless they were to get a true star, so I have questioned whether they would give up any 1st to upgrade their bench. However, this deal upgrades two bench rotation spots (Okogie and Prince to Kleber and Bullock), and the players coming in aren’t merely rentals. MIN isn’t a free agent destination, and they would be unlikely to get better players for that same amount of payroll. Sachin Gupta is incentivized to do “something,” to get ARod and Lore to give him the GM job full time this summer, so this seems like the type of deal I’d expect.

The one-year limit on the 2022 pick is a big deal for MIN, who had to wait and worry about being tied up by the Stepian Rule for months, and then had no picks, 1st or 2nd, in the last draft. A deal where the pick was lottery protected for several years out would make that much less palatable, maybe even pushing it into the “No” category for two guys that would be role players. I think though that if the Wolves miss the playoffs and end in the lottery, they should be sending out two 2022 2nds (they have three).

I’d imagine this is a Yes from MIN, and I applaud you for threading the needle to find a deal for a team who’s delicate balancing act makes trading very difficult.

I like this idea a lot. Bullock is bigger than Beasley and can play SF, I dont know why he has been shooting so poorly this season, but he would be the closest thing to 3&D, and Kleber can play С. Overall this trade will bring a lot of flexibility and versatility yo our roster.

[minimus]

I think Naz’ 20-10 tonight shows what he could be on another team, if he wasn’t playing behind Towns,

With a solid PnR ballhandler Reid is a dangerous weapon.

[winforlose]

I think Naz’ 20-10 tonight shows what he could be on another team, if he wasn’t playing behind Towns,

A while back I said Naz is a starter on a number of other teams, and he often shows it when KAT is out. That said, he needs to reduce his foul trouble, improve judgment, and play better defense.

[Wolveswin]

Reshuffle around Edwards with Celtics…

A)
To Celtics: Towns + Russell + Filler
FOR
To Wolves: Brown + Horford + Schroeder + 1st

Brown as 3/D forward next to Edwards. Reid can beat out Horford and take his mentoring.
Reid or Horford
JV | McDaniels
Brown | Edwards
Edwards | Beasley
Beverley | Schroeder

B)
To 76ers: Brown + Schroeder + Celtics 1st
To Celtics: Towns + Russell + Wolves Filler
To Wolves: Simmons + Maxey + Horford

Simmons + Maxey instead of Brown+ ???
Reid or Horford
JV | McDaniels
Simmons | Edwards
Edwards | Beasley
Maxey or Beverley

[shrink]

I just can’t see us trading Towns. It is too hard for us to get his level of talent in Minnesota.

I especially don’t like using Towns to get Simmons.

[minimus]

Reshuffle around Edwards with Celtics…

A)
To Celtics: Towns + Russell + Filler
FOR
To Wolves: Brown + Horford + Schroeder + 1st

Brown as 3/D forward next to Edwards. Reid can beat out Horford and take his mentoring.
Reid or Horford
JV | McDaniels
Brown | Edwards
Edwards | Beasley
Beverley | Schroeder

B)
To 76ers: Brown + Schroeder + Celtics 1st
To Celtics: Towns + Russell + Wolves Filler
To Wolves: Simmons + Maxey + Horford

Simmons + Maxey instead of Brown+ ???
Reid or Horford
JV | McDaniels
Simmons | Edwards
Edwards | Beasley
Maxey or Beverley

I wonder if you are a real MIN fan...

[Biff Cooper]

If we needed incentives to clear Layman’s cap hit, (for example, if we were trying to find room to sign Monroe!), we could offer a second rounder (we have three this year) or up to $5,167,000 in cash.

Finding the right team is a little more difficult. Only OKC has cap space left, though other teams can absorb him into their TPE’s, if they are far enough under the lux to make it profitable. The other method is through trades. Often teams can include a salary like Layman if the deal is big enough to allow a large enough gap for salary matching (and again, they probably want to have that room under the lux). Keep in mind deals like this usually don’t happen until the Trade Deadline (Thursday, February 10th) so that the original team has paid the bulk of his salary.

The NBA has said that Covid Replacements do not count against the cap. Looking at Larry Coon FAQ, the minimum salary for a veteran is the two year vet minimum which is $1,620,564 and salaries are pro-rated in their relation to days in the NBA season. We are $873,537 below the luxury tax level. The season started on October 19 and ends April 10, we are about a 174 day season, and we are only like 7 days away from being able to sign Monroe or someone else to a minimum contract without exceeding the luxury tax limit.

Does my math seem ok?

[shrink]

MIN GETS: ($3 mil expiring) + 2023 ATL 2nd
MIN GIVES: Josh Okogie + 2022 PHI/DEN 2nd

ATL GETS: Josh Okogie
ATL GIVES: Lou Williams + 2023 ATL 2nd

THIRD TEAM: Lou Williams + 2022 PHI/DEN 2nd
THIRD TEAM: ($3 mil expiring)

MIN does this to get $1 mil in wiggle room for the rest of the season, so they can add Monroe and still be able to sign 10-day contracts. They also have three 2nds in 2022, so they defer one to 2023. Maybe they get a little cash. Finally, they do Josh Okogie. He’s worked hard for the team, but if he’s fallen out of the rotation, this deal sends him back home to a team that really needs his defense. Helping players’ careers is noticed by agents and players, and improving our reputation may increase future opportunities.

ATL adds a good defensive guard to help Trey the rest of the season. They get to audition him to decide whether to offer him a contract this summer, or just let him expire. They also cut $1 mil from their payroll.

THIRD TEAM spends $2 mil in payroll to buy a 2022 2nd, and hope Lou Williams can help in the playoffs, more than their $3 mil expiring cast off.

[BlacJacMac]

MIN does this to get $1 mil in wiggle room for the rest of the season, so they can add Monroe...

I wonder if that's even a consideration anymore. He's had back-to-back DNP-CDs since Naz came back. And with KAT due back, and Knight clearly ahead of Monroe on the depth chart, my guess is he's gone after his 10 days. Hopefully to catch on with someone else.

Although I could be overthinking it and he just didn't play because neither LA team offered much size against us...

[winforlose]

Best move we could make is two seconds for Paul Reed. We could also offer Bolmaro, JO, and Layman for Obi Toppin and Kemba Walker. Kemba was benched before he was needed due to Covid. Thibs doesn’t want him but we could sure use him. Thbis drafted JO and Leo is known for his defense. Toppin is buried on the depth chart.

We could still make a move with Beasley and Prince to add another big name, but getting Toppin and Reed takes care of our depth issues and gives us two potential weapons. Kemba replaces JMAC in the rotation and gives us badly needed offense. It might bury Nowell but there are worse things than having too many good options.

[karch34]

MIN does this to get $1 mil in wiggle room for the rest of the season, so they can add Monroe...

I wonder if that's even a consideration anymore. He's had back-to-back DNP-CDs since Naz came back. And with KAT due back, and Knight clearly ahead of Monroe on the depth chart, my guess is he's gone after his 10 days. Hopefully to catch on with someone else.

Although I could be overthinking it and he just didn't play because neither LA team offered much size against us...

Great question. Totally healthy Monroe is likely 10/11 in what is likely a 9 man rotation (using Dane Moore’s recent assumption it’s PatBev, DLo, Ant, Vando, KAT, Beas, Nowell, Jaden, and Reid with extra PT based on fouls or injury). I do think size and playable vet when needed is better piece long term as Leo and Prince can fill Okogie’s role if needed and we aren’t going to want three 2nds this off-season if we don’t make any other moves so see long and short term benefits of the trade.

[old school 34]

If the thought has evolved to more of a margins type of trade vs trading for a more obvious starter type. I starting to lean more on the take a flier on a rookie contract type...even if it's a bit riskier vs the more known quantity vet type....meaning I want to make sure I'm in on any Atl rooks if they're really considering moving any of them, PJ Washington...even guys like--Bagley, Hayes, or J. Smith....vs T. Young or Theis.



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[shrink]

MIN does this to get $1 mil in wiggle room for the rest of the season, so they can add Monroe...

I wonder if that's even a consideration anymore. He's had back-to-back DNP-CDs since Naz came back. And with KAT due back, and Knight clearly ahead of Monroe on the depth chart, my guess is he's gone after his 10 days. Hopefully to catch on with someone else.

Although I could be overthinking it and he just didn't play because neither LA team offered much size against us...

Great question. Totally healthy Monroe is likely 10/11 in what is likely a 9 man rotation (using Dane Moore’s recent assumption it’s PatBev, DLo, Ant, Vando, KAT, Beas, Nowell, Jaden, and Reid with extra PT based on fouls or injury). I do think size and playable vet when needed is better piece long term as Leo and Prince can fill Okogie’s role if needed and we aren’t going to want three 2nds this off-season if we don’t make any other moves so see long and short term benefits of the trade.

I agree, and I thought Dane’s comment about the nine man rotations was correct. I think trading Okogie for more cap space would remove an arrow from Finch’s quiver when we need guard defense, but I don’t think he’s going to see much court time as we try to find more minutes for Nowell.

[moss_is_1]

MIN does this to get $1 mil in wiggle room for the rest of the season, so they can add Monroe...

I wonder if that's even a consideration anymore. He's had back-to-back DNP-CDs since Naz came back. And with KAT due back, and Knight clearly ahead of Monroe on the depth chart, my guess is he's gone after his 10 days. Hopefully to catch on with someone else.

Although I could be overthinking it and he just didn't play because neither LA team offered much size against us...

I think it could be a lot of match-up things. Monroe has talent to still contribute, he's just not much of a shooter or defender. Could still be valuable to have him around, he's got a good post game, passing skills, sets good screens and is a big body.

[BlacJacMac]

MIN does this to get $1 mil in wiggle room for the rest of the season, so they can add Monroe...

I wonder if that's even a consideration anymore. He's had back-to-back DNP-CDs since Naz came back. And with KAT due back, and Knight clearly ahead of Monroe on the depth chart, my guess is he's gone after his 10 days. Hopefully to catch on with someone else.

Although I could be overthinking it and he just didn't play because neither LA team offered much size against us...

Guess I wasn't overthinking it. I wish him well in Washington. Seems like a good guy and a great teammate.

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[jayu70]

What are the chances that Minny trades KAT and start a rebuild around Anthony Edwards?

[BlacJacMac]

What are the chances that Minny trades KAT and start a rebuild around Anthony Edwards?

Very, very small.

New ownership isn't likely looking to start out by going scorched Earth.