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why was his minutes cut to coming off the bench towards the end of the season?

thx

One issue has always been that Love and Jefferson play the same position. I believe one of our power forwards will be traded this summer.

The other reason is that we added Darko. Jefferson and Darko proved to pretty good duo on the court. In fact, Darko is the best center we've had since Nesterovic.

Because Rambis arbitrarily decides not to play his best players and lineups sometimes. Also, we may have been tanking, but we're not sure if it was intentional or if Rambis is just that bad of a coach.

cpfsf wrote:One issue has always been that Love and Jefferson play the same position. I believe one of our power forwards will be traded this summer.

The other reason is that we added Darko. Jefferson and Darko proved to pretty good duo on the court. In fact, Darko is the best center we've had since Nesterovic.

I just didn't see the "Jefferson/Milicic" duo perform so well like some did ... what was our record before and after Milicics arrival? Milicic basically became the passer and defender that Al was not ... there are lots of Triangle fans around here, and if that's really the case, Al has to go.

In general, I thought Love was playing well and his performance eventually deteriorated later in the season when he was coming off the bench wih reduced minutes. The Milicic/Jefferson duo started to self-proclaim they did so well together and I think people started to believe it. Early on in the Milicic experiment, it was actually the Love/Milicic combo that was most effective hands down.

Looking back on the year, we won 15 games ... we have a long way to go no matter how you slice it. I think Love is certainly a big part of the solution in the current system (Triangle). Love/Pekovic appears more appealing (more ways than one) than Jefferson Milicic.

Love & Pekovic would be awful defensively, no length and shot blocking at all.

Turnover_21 wrote:Love & Pekovic would be awful defensively, no length and shot blocking at all.

Quite possible, but only a notch worse than Jefferson/Milicic. Defense is clearly the root of our problems and I'm glad you made the point. My Love/Pekovic combo was pointed at the team offense via the Triangle.

Love also has conditioning issues which limit his PT.

Dewey wrote:I just didn't see the "Jefferson/Milicic" duo perform so well like some did ... what was our record before and after Milicics arrival? Milicic basically became the passer and defender that Al was not ... there are lots of Triangle fans around here, and if that's really the case, Al has to go.

In general, I thought Love was playing well and his performance eventually deteriorated later in the season when he was coming off the bench wih reduced minutes. The Milicic/Jefferson duo started to self-proclaim they did so well together and I think people started to believe it. Early on in the Milicic experiment, it was actually the Love/Milicic combo that was most effective hands down.

Looking back on the year, we won 15 games ... we have a long way to go no matter how you slice it. I think Love is certainly a big part of the solution in the current system (Triangle). Love/Pekovic appears more appealing (more ways than one) than Jefferson Milicic.

It's difficult to make a judgement because Darko was not in game shape, Jefferson was at about 70%, and the team had basically quit for the last month. You're right that it didn't show in the box scores but I do think the Darko/Jefferson duo has potential.

miltk wrote:why was his minutes cut to coming off the bench towards the end of the season?

thx

How about: Love was a quitter who didn't play within the framework of the team. In other words, who knows - it was a coaching decision but we don't have data to give you an informed answer.

I wouldn't mind trading Love for a top 5 pick, honestly.

I hope we trade Love for a good pick or a good SG or SF...
And Milicic is the best center we've ever had IMO...

Love quitting? Wow, what a reach. How about Al and Milicic trying to publically convince people they play well together.

The Wolves were roughly:
To start the season ... 2-15 ... no Milicic ... no Love...
Mid-season ... 11-34 ... with Love/Jefferson ... no Milicic...
Post Milicic trade ... 2-31 ... with Milicic/Jefferson ... reduced Love minutes ...

Clearly we were not successful with any combination, but lets be done with the Jefferson/Milicic success story. What stands out to me was a stretch of basketball where Love and Milicic played extremely well together (Love especially), then when Jefferson started logging heavy minutes after his DUI, Love was asked to come off the bench. Hmmm.

Milicic is pretty good, but I agree, the duo at times can be overrated. However, 28 of the 33 games that Darko played in were against playoff teams. We had one of the hardest schedules in the NBA at the very end. 23 of the 45 games that Milicic didn't play (while Love and Jefferson did) were against playoff teams.

We are so damn fickle sometimes. A few months ago Love was all we talked about and Al was as good as gone.

funkatron101 wrote:We are so damn fickle sometimes. A few months ago Love was all we talked about and Al was as good as gone.

I'm mixed. In fact, I wouldn't rule out trading both, but I want to see the offers first.

Dewey wrote:Love quitting? Wow, what a reach. How about Al and Milicic trying to publically convince people they play well together.

The Wolves were roughly:
To start the season ... 2-15 ... no Milicic ... no Love...
Mid-season ... 11-34 ... with Love/Jefferson ... no Milicic...
Post Milicic trade ... 2-31 ... with Milicic/Jefferson ... reduced Love minutes ...

Clearly we were not successful with any combination, but lets be done with the Jefferson/Milicic success story. What stands out to me was a stretch of basketball where Love and Milicic played extremely well together (Love especially), then when Jefferson started logging heavy minutes after his DUI, Love was asked to come off the bench. Hmmm.

I don't think to say Love quit on a regular basis is a stretch at all. I think game reports suggest that he did this almost routinely during games, frequently right before getting benched. Now, there might be extenuating circumstances - if the theory that he is the wolves best player and Rambis was benching him over a power struggle/to tank are correct there might be good reasons for him to be frustrated resulting in him giving up on plays and rebelling in other ways. Love fans certainly have many good statistics about him to support their claims - but without knowing more information than we do as fans, we can't say what was going on. I guess I'm just saying that if a player gets visibly frustrated on court and doesn't hustle back on defense, he has quit on the play. This doesn't mean he really is a quitter that can't play within the framework of the team, that is exactly the sort of unfounded conclusion we can't draw from available evidence. It's just a possibility.

Regarding who played best together, the one question I have about the stretch where Love/Milicic supposedly played well together - where did this come in the 2-31 section? I have found it curious that Milicic and Jefferson were so vocal in their mutual praise without including Love, but I'm not too sure what we can really draw from this.

I remember our first game with Darko was against OKC. Darko was +35, Love was was +24, and Al was -37. But that was just one game.

Didn't we win a lot of those games mid season with Hollins starting in place of Love? I thought Love's performance got much worse after the Milicic trade, but who knows the cause. Jefferson was also abysmal for a stretch in February-March. I think the team probably just lost it's confidence. I wouldn't point fingers to any one player. That's what happens when you have a young team with no chemistry and no veteran leadership.

Worm Guts wrote:I remember our first game with Darko was against OKC. Darko was +35, Love was was +24, and Al was -37. But that was just one game.

I recall that game, but more so, I remember more of an energy that existed for a stretch ... I was like jeez! let's get more of that! There obviously was not a big win streak, but just more of a sign of hope. I don't know ... in these trying times I can live with getting beat as long as we're inspired, but it's difficult to see them lose like they did late.

Maybe there really was a power struggle with Love - he's proven to have his own opinions and I see Rambis as being much the same. I just hope is was a growing pain and they can move past it. I can't imagine it's easy to see a player (Darko) come in and get handed minutes so management has lots of opportunity to see if he can help or not ... and it's at the expense of other players.

Oh well

Kevin Love has strength and it is rebounding everything else he is a below average player and a mis match on the court period nothing a coach can do about that.

This whole "Al and Darko were publicly lobbying that they play great together" thing has been a bit over-stated.

Al has said some real positive things about Darko, but Al kind of comes across as the sort of teammate that says great things about everybody (ie - "I love Kevin Love", "Kevin Love is like a son to me", some stuff about Foye a while back, etc). And yes Darko made it plain he thinks he plays great next to Al, but at the time I took that more as Darko lobbying for his value to the team in general. Whether accurate or not, he saw Al as our starting PF and "star", and he wanted to emphasize that he fits well on Al's team. If Al had taken the whole year off with his injury, I bet Darko would have talked about how well he compliments Kevin Love.