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I think it's pretty common thought that Favors is #3. Although that could easily change, I wanted to state that this might be a thought we need to explore.

Who is really going to be better?

Cousins is way younger, which in turn allows him to have a much larger ceiling. As far as an instant impact, Pekovic will be trillions of times better. And even though we're not all that in need of an instant impact til Rubio. Kahn did promise his season-ticket holders that this season would be different. He probably doesn't want to have to lower the ticket prices like that twice.

Pek is going to cost a pretty penny, but he isn't likely to cost 2 million more than the #3 salary slot would be if we used it on Cousins, so maybe 6-7 mil on Pek's contract. My whole argument is that I'd rather have another player than Cousins @ #3 and then have Pek on top of that. If you argue that u'd like to trade Pek and save the money (maybe shrink?) then I guess you'd have to open the #3 spot up to Cousins...


note: Pek will be able to negotiate like a free agent as he was a 2nd round pick and we only own his rights not in a 2nd round salary slot.

I don't know why you're talking about the 3 since we've got the 4, but I'd like to wait and see exactly how much Pekovic wants. If it's not an incredible amount I'd be up for keeping both and having a pair of above average man defenders at centre.

dunkonu21 wrote:Pek is going to cost a pretty penny, but he isn't likely to cost 2 million more than the #3 salary slot would be if we used it on Cousins, so maybe 6-7 mil on Pek's contract. My whole argument is that I'd rather have another player than Cousins @ #3 and then have Pek on top of that. If you argue that u'd like to trade Pek and save the money (maybe shrink?) then I guess you'd have to open the #3 spot up to Cousins...


note: Pek will be able to negotiate like a free agent as he was a 2nd round pick and we only own his rights not in a 2nd round salary slot.

Taking any important decision based on pekovic willingness to go or not is not a good choice. I might be wrong but i don't envision Pek being anything more than a good backup. If you expect him to have an impact close to Marc Gasol or so i think you're being delusional.
If Kahn believes Cousins is BPA then you draft him and then figure out the Pekovic case.

dunkonu21 wrote:I

As far as an instant impact, Pekovic will be trillions of times better.
.

Why would you assume that?

Worm Guts wrote:

dunkonu21 wrote:I

As far as an instant impact, Pekovic will be trillions of times better.
.

Why would you assume that?

Yeah, I don't think you can assume that either. Pekovic is going to have to transition to a league where he no longer has a huge strength advantage every night, just like Cousins.

it's arguable both ways, Pekovic is in better shape and has seen a lot more than Cousins, but Cousins is bigger and will get more opportunity because of how high he'll be drafted

Devilzsidewalk wrote:it's arguable both ways, Pekovic is in better shape and has seen a lot more than Cousins, but Cousins is bigger and will get more opportunity because of how high he'll be drafted

Do I need to remind you that Pek was taken with the FIRST PICK of the second round? What's Cousins going to be? Fourth?

I guess we'll have to have a net-bet on Instant impact vs Cuz and Pek, but I maintain it won't be too close.

I have been one of the biggest Pek supporters, but Cousins is much more athletic, much bigger and flat-out dominate. Pek is crazy strong and can/will score and be a productive starter, but Cousins could be a building block.

Cousins has the much higher ceiling and much better athletic ability for his size. He also has shown much more ability when it comes to rebounding and shotblocking.

Neither are used to the kind of minutes an NBA starter has to play, so it's really hard to project what either would look like playing 30+ minutes. It's not much of a stretch to say Pekovic could walk right in and be a very effective role player/ near league average center (which isn't saying a whole lot for the depth at the position). Cousins has the potential to be a franchise player and all-star C for 10 years. You can't say that about Pekovic. Cousins also has the potential to be a complete bust because of weight and attitude/maturity/temper concerns.

I don't like adding Favors to replace jefferson or love. He has about the same length as Jefferson, without the offensive skill, and I don't think Favors as a Horford-style C will be any more effective than Jefferson was in that role. At least Cousins is a legitimate size upgrade.

If we take Johnson at 4 and don't trade Al or Love, Darko makes more sense than Pekovic, so at that point you still are looking at trading one of Al/Love/Pekovic.

I think the best use of Pekovic is as a trade chip. I want to get up to 10-11 for Henry or George before Memphis and Milwaukee grab them.

I would like to see legitimate measurements for Pekovic, especially his standing reach and wingspan.

younggunsmn wrote:Cousins has the much higher ceiling and much better athletic ability for his size. He also has shown much more ability when it comes to rebounding and shotblocking.

Neither are used to the kind of minutes an NBA starter has to play, so it's really hard to project what either would look like playing 30+ minutes. It's not much of a stretch to say Pekovic could walk right in and be a very effective role player/ near league average center (which isn't saying a whole lot for the depth at the position). Cousins has the potential to be a franchise player and all-star C for 10 years. You can't say that about Pekovic. Cousins also has the potential to be a complete bust because of weight and attitude/maturity/temper concerns.

I don't like adding Favors to replace jefferson or love. He has about the same length as Jefferson, without the offensive skill, and I don't think Favors as a Horford-style C will be any more effective than Jefferson was in that role. At least Cousins is a legitimate size upgrade.

If we take Johnson at 4 and don't trade Al or Love, Darko makes more sense than Pekovic, so at that point you still are looking at trading one of Al/Love/Pekovic.

I think the best use of Pekovic is as a trade chip. I want to get up to 10-11 for Henry or George before Memphis and Milwaukee grab them.

I would like to see legitimate measurements for Pekovic, especially his standing reach and wingspan.

Favors is only .5 shorter then Cousins in shoes with way better athletic ability. and unlike Al and Love Favors actually plays defense and is good at it, something we severely lack. Favors offensive game WILL get better. i dont know if you can say that about Al and Loves defense. Rubio + Favors = Match Made in Heaven

If I could trade Pek for Cousins I'd do it. But there is no way I want to use the #4 on Cousins, he isn't worth that on this team IMO.

dunkonu21 wrote:If I could trade Pek for Cousins I'd do it. But there is no way I want to use the #4 on Cousins, he isn't worth that on this team IMO.

if hes not worth it then who is assuming the top 3 go wall turner and favors?

wildvikeswolves wrote:

dunkonu21 wrote:If I could trade Pek for Cousins I'd do it. But there is no way I want to use the #4 on Cousins, he isn't worth that on this team IMO.

if hes not worth it then who is assuming the top 3 go wall turner and favors?

Exactly. He's the BPA at that point.

Saying he is BPA is arguable. However, I don't need to argue that he's BPA to make my point. Either we trade his rights for wing players or we draft Wesley Johnson or AFA @ 4. We're not trading stock, we're trying to build a team. I like that Kahn uses value as a measuring stick, but by drafting Cousins before we have a deal in order then value is lost. Much like my opinion with the Wolves trying to draft Wall before we lost the lottery. If teams know we have 3 pgs or 3 pfs they are going to black ball us.

We either need to deal Jefferson or Love for 100% on the dollar (a difficult task). Or trade the #4 for 100% which should be pretty simple. Love and Jefferson have proven they can't play D and both have had injuries. They are tainted in the NBA, despite their success. It is very easy for people to talk themselves into prospects like Cousins, because you can imagine him changing his game and being the next Tim Duncan. However, he isn't even the next Al Jefferson. Al and Love have their bumps, but they are proven and have the intangibles to get the job done, Cousins is a risk and his position is already filled admirably. Trading proven commodities for unproven ones is a step backwards, it's time to start building a core now. You can't continuously change personnel and being picky without losing value

There is no reason to go about this all backwards and try to trade and trade till we get the exact pieces we want. A team is a living organism and we're still evaluating Love and Jefferson, we don't trade people unless we know they aren't what we want. Now I firmly believe we will trade either Love or Pekovic because they can provide us value. But I would prefer we keep Al, Love and Darko and see what we have there. This is not our last chance to trade Al and Love, it's prolly more close to one of the first chances.

When it comes down to it, Cousins, Wesley and AFA are not players that are once in a generation players. They are pieces to completing the puzzle and drafting Cousins isn't going to help us get better, it's going to cause us to go through all the same growing pains again.

I would rather go through Wesley or AFA's growing pains, because at least we will have the physical ability to compete with other teams. If we don't fix the wing, then all those people who bought season tickets are wasting their money.

bring over Pek, draft Cousins and just let each guy play 19.2 min a night, everyone stays fresh and we get the best of all 5 worlds.

dunkonu21 wrote:Saying he is BPA is arguable. However, I don't need to argue that he's BPA to make my point. Either we trade his rights for wing players or we draft Wesley Johnson or AFA @ 4. We're not trading stock, we're trying to build a team. I like that Kahn uses value as a measuring stick, but by drafting Cousins before we have a deal in order then value is lost. Much like my opinion with the Wolves trying to draft Wall before we lost the lottery. If teams know we have 3 pgs or 3 pfs they are going to black ball us.

I get the feeling from this you think Cousins is a power forward. He's not. However, I think with the state the team is in BPA is still as important as ever. This team just flat out needs talent and even though it needs it more on the wings, passing up Cousins because you have Jefferson and Love would be stupid.

We either need to deal Jefferson or Love for 100% on the dollar (a difficult task). Or trade the #4 for 100% which should be pretty simple. Love and Jefferson have proven they can't play D and both have had injuries. They are tainted in the NBA, despite their success. It is very easy for people to talk themselves into prospects like Cousins, because you can imagine him changing his game and being the next Tim Duncan. However, he isn't even the next Al Jefferson. Al and Love have their bumps, but they are proven and have the intangibles to get the job done, Cousins is a risk and his position is already filled admirably. Trading proven commodities for unproven ones is a step backwards, it's time to start building a core now. You can't continuously change personnel and being picky without losing value

I think you've forgotten this is the start of a new rebuilding process, so it's not the time to stick with the old core just to have continuity. This team needs to be practically torn apart after last season. The big men don't fit into the offence and they don't provide enough, or anything really, defensively to compensate for that.

The reasons Cousins is so attractive is because, and I'll admit it's all potential and he's far from proven at this point, but he has the potential to be like Al Jefferson without the defensive flaws. And if the team is planning to build a contender then I hope they realise that's the type of centre they could really use.

There is no reason to go about this all backwards and try to trade and trade till we get the exact pieces we want. A team is a living organism and we're still evaluating Love and Jefferson, we don't trade people unless we know they aren't what we want. Now I firmly believe we will trade either Love or Pekovic because they can provide us value. But I would prefer we keep Al, Love and Darko and see what we have there. This is not our last chance to trade Al and Love, it's prolly more close to one of the first chances.

No offence, but what exactly is there left to learn? Al and Love have both shown their strengths and weaknesses clearly the last few years and they just don't fit with what the team wants. They're liabilities on defence, don't fit a running game, etc. At this point the team needs to take a chance on someone that could fit it a little better, and that's Cousins. He played in a slightly similar system in Kentucky and brings what Al brings without as many of the weaknesses.

When it comes down to it, Cousins, Wesley and AFA are not players that are once in a generation players. They are pieces to completing the puzzle and drafting Cousins isn't going to help us get better, it's going to cause us to go through all the same growing pains again.

I would rather go through Wesley or AFA's growing pains, because at least we will have the physical ability to compete with other teams. If we don't fix the wing, then all those people who bought season tickets are wasting their money.

I guess that's just personal opinion, because I think getting a long term answer at centre is a lot harder to find then a decent wing player. I mean even with the wing problems this team hasn't had a decent centre since long before Garnett's time. But Johnson and Aminu are definitely pieces you'd want to add if you're looking to take the next step, but I just don't feel like the team is there yet.

shangrila wrote:I get the feeling from this you think Cousins is a power forward. He's not. However, I think with the state the team is in BPA is still as important as ever. This team just flat out needs talent and even though it needs it more on the wings, passing up Cousins because you have Jefferson and Love would be stupid.

Cousins isn't likely to have the same wingspan that Jefferson does. And he is probably only an inch taller than Jefferson, so I don't see Cousins as a Center. I consider Jefferson and Cousins the same size, therefore Cousins will have the same difficulties at defending centers.

I think you've forgotten this is the start of a new rebuilding process, so it's not the time to stick with the old core just to have continuity. This team needs to be practically torn apart after last season. The big men don't fit into the offence and they don't provide enough, or anything really, defensively to compensate for that.

The reasons Cousins is so attractive is because, and I'll admit it's all potential and he's far from proven at this point, but he has the potential to be like Al Jefferson without the defensive flaws. And if the team is planning to build a contender then I hope they realise that's the type of centre they could really use.

No one fits into the offense yet. Why do you think Lakers fans want to keep giving us Farmar and Walton (besides screwing us over), because they realize that our offense is complicated and you need years of experience to understand. You make that claim far too early in the process.

I think you're splitting hairs and we are still talking about the #2 guy on a championship caliber team. Wings are #1s and we need to start looking for diamonds in the rough who can turn to a scoring wing.

No offence, but what exactly is there left to learn? Al and Love have both shown their strengths and weaknesses clearly the last few years and they just don't fit with what the team wants. They're liabilities on defence, don't fit a running game, etc. At this point the team needs to take a chance on someone that could fit it a little better, and that's Cousins. He played in a slightly similar system in Kentucky and brings what Al brings without as many of the weaknesses.

I think Love will need to learn maturity and Al needs time to become more healthy before we make rash decisions. I don't have a problem trading Love (I have a problem trading Al), but trading Love for another guy who plays his position is only going to lead to comparisons that we will probably lose. Trading for a SG or SF would be a risk, and it adds a piece to our puzzle. If we draft Wesley, trade Pek or Love for another Wing and work out something to get a big man in with the combined pieces of 16 and 23 I'll be happy.

I guess that's just personal opinion, because I think getting a long term answer at centre is a lot harder to find then a decent wing player. I mean even with the wing problems this team hasn't had a decent centre since long before Garnett's time. But Johnson and Aminu are definitely pieces you'd want to add if you're looking to take the next step, but I just don't feel like the team is there yet.

Well I guess that's where we disagree, cuz I think Darko is a much better option at Center than Cousins. He has amazing size, defense and does the passing and scoring well to keep defenses honest. That's all I ask for, Cousins won't have the passing, or defense that Darko does and isn't nearly as ginormous.