Kahn dealing second rounders

[shrink]

I knew Kahn had dealt a lot of our second rounders, but since most tend to be worthless, I never took a good look at it. However, I checked the summary at wyn's great site:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... 3SXc&gid=1

and it looks like this:

2011 MIN's second rounder traded to MIA (Beasley)
2012 MIN's second rounder traded to DAL (Jawai - Top 55 protected)
2013 MIN's second rounder traded to CLE (West/Sessions)
2014 MIN's second rounder traded to MIA (Beasley)

To be fair, he did add one last year in the Songalia trade .. NOH's 2014 second rounder.

Second rounders are generally over-rated on these boards. Posters remember the exceptions, but 90% never become even rotation players. However, the early picks often make nice assets to stash a Euro (like Pekovic), and even if you only have a 10% chance .. that's better than not owning one at all. Obviously nobody's complaining about the price-tag on Beasley being two picks, but I thought it was surprising to see all those second's attached to other teams.

[shrink]

Incidentally, for those wondering about our pick debt on the more important first rounders, wyn's got some of the protections listed, if you haven't seen them:

MEM 1st ...... (Jefferson/Koufos trade, 7/13/10) via UTA (Brewer, 2/18/10)
2011: Top 14 protected
2012: Top 12 protected
2013: Top 10 protected
2014: Top 9 protected
2015: Top 9 protected
2016: Cash

UTA 1st ...... (Jefferson/Koufos trade, 7/13/10)
"Protected"
(its been suggested the protections are similar to the ones for MEM, so we'll probably get a pick in the 20's next season.


And to be complete, of course, we're still haunted by McHale's Jaric trade:

LAC gets MIN's 1st,
2011: Top 10 protected
2012: Unprotected

[shangrila]

I don't think it's a big deal. Oklahoma bought the 31st pick outright so it's not like those kinds of pick aren't available if the team really wants them.

[breatnach]

Man that is a bad trade... as if a 1:1 swap was now bad enough, we owe them an unprotected first. Those are rare! Just shows how shortsighted McFail was, not taking into consideration that we might be in need of a high pick 6 years later. I really hope we're out of the lottery in 2012 with Ricky over and another high pick in 2011.

[AJ Valliant]

While a bad habit to get into, it's not the end of the world by any means. It's more indicative of lack of fine honed negotiation skills, then outright damaging.

[MVP4LIFE]

[quote="shrink"


And to be complete, of course, we're still haunted by McHale's Jaric trade:

LAC gets MIN's 1st,
2011: Top 10 protected
2012: Unprotected[/quote]


Thanks for remembering me
Don't know anymore how I felt about that trade back then, but looking at it now, it's absolutely awful!

[Saltine]

That Jawai second doesn't really count, top 55 protected is a bit of a joke

[Calinks]

It was so funny how the FO tried to hype Jaric when that deal went down. We were pretty much told he was going to be some sort of versatile badass at PG. His 6'7" frame was going to dominate. There were selling him hard and KG wasn't buying any of it. Then Marko got here and man.... that sucked. He was so mediocre.

[Howler21]

It was so funny how the FO tried to hype Jaric when that deal went down. We were pretty much told he was going to be some sort of versatile badass at PG. His 6'7" frame was going to dominate. There were selling him hard and KG wasn't buying any of it. Then Marko got here and man.... that sucked. He was so mediocre.

I wish we could re-write the headlines after that trade.


Timberwolves trade Cassell and costly draft pick for guy who will only be known for putting his jersey on backwards, having a supermodel wife and having amaving eyebrows

[eyeteeth]

From what I have seen, every GM treats 2nd rounders super casually. We don't have any right now, but it'll be easy to pick some up, especially with how many deals Kahn makes.

That said, I thought the 2nd round pick went the wrong way in the Cleveland deal. I'll give you Sebastian Telfair for a 2nd round pick....

[shrink]

I thought McHale was being the opposite of short-sighted when he installed the protections on the Jaric pick.

It was top 10 protected until 7 years later? In 2005 we still had Garnett, and had been coming off multiple 50-win seasons until the Cassell sabotage. Even with that cancerous 2005 locker room, we still would drafted 14th.

I didn't like giving out the pick, but never in my wildest dreams did I think we'd go 6 straight years in the bottom ten, and the unprotected 7th year would matter.

[Esohny]

I thought McHale was being the opposite of short-sighted when he installed the protections on the Jaric pick.

It was top 10 protected until 7 years later? In 2005 we still had Garnett, and had been coming off multiple 50-win seasons until the Cassell sabotage. Even with that cancerous 2005 locker room, we still would drafted 14th.

I didn't like giving out the pick, but never in my wildest dreams did I think we'd go 6 straight years in the bottom ten, and the unprotected 7th year would matter.

I wouldn't say he was being short sighted as much as stupid. Jaric didn't merit a 1st round pick of any kind in trade, and he didn't merit that ridiculous contract they gave him. And that's not hindsight; that trade was poor at the time.

[Steve_Holiday]

While a bad habit to get into, it's not the end of the world by any means. It's more indicative of lack of fine honed negotiation skills, then outright damaging.

I think tossing 2nd picks around to "balance" out deals like it aint no thing is just part of the job description. These picks rarely turn into role players, let alone stars. If we see someone we like in the 2nd round in 2013, I'm sure it would be no trouble to throw a small amount of money down and grab a pick.

I don't think this shows any lack of negotiating skills on the park of Kahn.

[shrink]

I wouldn't say he was being short sighted as much as stupid. Jaric didn't merit a 1st round pick of any kind in trade, and he didn't merit that ridiculous contract they gave him. And that's not hindsight; that trade was poor at the time.

That's a different issue, but I agree with you.

But keep in mind, the price tag wasn't just for Jaric .. it was to get rid of Cassell. Cassell was old, Cassell was injured, and Cassell was so cancerous that he helped turn a team that many thought would win the championship into a team that couldn't even make the play-offs. That's the three pillars of negative trade value right there. Nobody wanted that guy on the their team at the time of the trade.

I agree though - it would have been much wiser for Taylor to buy out Cassell at $6.74 mil, instead of use the protected 1st to oust him and bring in a win-now replacement.

[Varejao17]

man, that trade gets uglier as time goes by...

[breatnach]

I thought McHale was being the opposite of short-sighted when he installed the protections on the Jaric pick.

It was top 10 protected until 7 years later? In 2005 we still had Garnett, and had been coming off multiple 50-win seasons until the Cassell sabotage. Even with that cancerous 2005 locker room, we still would drafted 14th.

I didn't like giving out the pick, but never in my wildest dreams did I think we'd go 6 straight years in the bottom ten, and the unprotected 7th year would matter.

I just think handing out unrestricted firsts is never a good idea. That's probably why most of these trades involve picks that just turn into cash considerations after X years - to limit the risks. I mean, even if KG had stayed until 2012, "The Kid" would be 36 years old and it would probably be time to start rebuilding - which would be that much harder without any pick. Luckily we've sped up our rebuilding process by a couple of years, so we will hopefully be giving LAC a pretty low pick. That, however is Kahn's achievement and not McHale's.
Giving out unrestricted picks just show you don't give a fk whats in the future as long as you get what you want NOW. That is my definition of 'shortsighted'. And when that, what you've given your future up for doesn't even pan out, it just makes you look like a moron aswell.

Edit: reminds me a lot of the Otis Thorpe for #2 pick of 2003 back in 1997 (Griz - Pistons) The Griz could have selected Melo / Wade or Bosh (or Darko ), which most likely would have changed the face of the entire NBA as we know it today. Unrestricted firsts are way to valuable to give out. Especially for a Thorpe or a Jaric.

[Worm Guts]

I thought McHale was being the opposite of short-sighted when he installed the protections on the Jaric pick.

It was top 10 protected until 7 years later? In 2005 we still had Garnett, and had been coming off multiple 50-win seasons until the Cassell sabotage. Even with that cancerous 2005 locker room, we still would drafted 14th.

I didn't like giving out the pick, but never in my wildest dreams did I think we'd go 6 straight years in the bottom ten, and the unprotected 7th year would matter.

I mean, even if KG had stayed until 2012, "The Kid" would be 36 years old and it would probably be time to start rebuilding - which would be that much harder without any pick. Luckily we've sped up our rebuilding process by a couple of years, so we will hopefully be giving LAC a pretty low pick. That, however is Kahn's achievement and not McHale's.
.

If we had kept KG we probably would have given up the pick before 2012. I don't think anyone could have fairly expected us to still owe the pick this point. And I don't think we've sped up the rebuilding process at all.

[GopherIt!]

Why hasn't Kahn warped back in time and reversed this trade yet? Lousy GM, only thinks about today and the future.