MIN-CHA .. Telfair for Dampier

[shrink]

MIN GETS: Dampier's $13 mil contract (unguaranteed)

CHA GETS: $11.3 mil TPE + Telfair

With Delonte West gone, this may be another way to apply Dantowns' basic deal.

Why for CHA? CHA has been unable to find a good deal for Dampier's $13 mil unguaranteed contract, but time is starting to run out. His deal has two expirations dates: the trade deadline is one but far worse is next month when they need to write his first paycheck for the pro-rated chunk of his giant $13 mil contract. Converting this into a TPE gives them other advantages. You don't write big checks to a TPE, and its good for one full year, including next season's free agency. By trading Dampier rather than just waiving him before next month, they get the savings and they get the valuable TPE.

Telfair is on a contract that's not too extreme, at $2.7 mil and an expiring at that. With CHA only carrying two PG's with the quality and reliability of Augustin and Shaun Livingston, it seems like Telfair would have some use. This also seems like the most painless way to give MIN some incentive for offering their cap space.

Why for MIN? With Flynn's surgery, MIN needs a back-up PG at the start of the season, but there are rumors that they'd like to move Telfair and find some other, cheaper vet for a season, like Earl Watson. This deal allows them to move Telfair's salary at no cost, and gives them the incentive to help CHA with a TPE. There is no cost to MIN to acquire Dampier's unguaranteed deal, because they can simply drop him themselves and reclaim the cap space. MIN can't ask for much for this service, because SAC and OKC could offer the same "something for nothing" service to CHA.

[Fire Mchale]

Shrink - I'm not sure where the Wolves benefit from this deal other than just ridding themselves of Telfair. We debated (at length) the validity of the T-Wolves prior trades, wouldn't this be the exact same thing - but with considerably less to show for it? Aren't we doing Charlotte a HUGE favor by extending the value of Dampier's contract for nearly a full year? All for the chance to save maybe 1 million dollars this year on a different PG? You felt we got screwed by Portland and Miami, I guess I don't see how this deal isn't dramatically worse than both of those. In one deal we received a legitimate NBA player and in another we received a young player with baggage, but tremendous upside. In this deal, we're taking an expiring asset in Dampier's contract and doing Charlotte a favor by giving them an $11 TPE that will extend for a full year and per your argument will also net them a usable reserve PG - all so we can move forward and pick up Earl Watson (or someone similar) and "save" the team a mythical amount of money that will ultimately just get spread around to the other players on the team should we not sign any more players.

I do appreciate your passion for deals and the research you do on them, but I can't help but look at this trade and wonder how you promote this particular deal, but pan the others we've made. Now if you felt like there was a market for Dampier's contract and there was a future ROI from the deal, then it makes some sense, but that wasn't part of your argument (at least not on this thread). Is your thought that we would reap some benefit of moving Dampier in a future deal or was this really just a community service trade as you explained it earlier? If so, then I don't understand the passion you have against the Portland or the Miami deals while supporting this deal.

[shrink]

What does it add "other than ridding ourselves of Telfair?" Isn't that a legitimate plus?

Doing so adds $2.7 mil of raw cap space to our stash of $12.7.

We save $2.7 mil that we'd be paying for nothing to get rid of Telfair, plus reduce our cap space stash to sign his replacement.

We're putting money in our pockets. I can't guarantee how it will be spent, but having better assets -- at no cost at all -- is a positive move.


I find the price tag on Webster too expensive. That's something people can debate, but this trade, where MIN gets something (cap space) for literally nothing, is hard to oppose.

Btw, I've never panned the Miami deal. Please don't form a RealGM account just to bring RubeChat tit-for-tat to these boards.

[shangrila]

I think it's a good deal. I'm assuming Dampier can be waived at any time during the season, right? In which case he'd get us above the minimum salary limit while still letting them basically use the cap space. Plus he's a veteran which is something this team could still use.

But if he has to be waived by a certain date then I'd pass. He's only good if he can be used as a trade chip.

[Worm Guts]

I think it's a good deal. I'm assuming Dampier can be waived at any time during the season, right? In which case he'd get us above the minimum salary limit while still letting them basically use the cap space. Plus he's a veteran which is something this team could still use.

But if he has to be waived by a certain date then I'd pass. He's only good if he can be used as a trade chip.

It clears salary we don't want. We'd definitely waive him quickly, his unguaranteed contract isn't worth anymore than our cap space and there's no reason to pay him if we don't want him.

[Saltine]

We are over the minimum if they keep Stiemsma instead of cutting him, we are 450k over with him.
If we move Telfair, then we are 2.25 million under, with Stiemsma.

[Worm Guts]

Being under the mininimum isn't a big deal. We've got until opening day to get there, and we could sign someone to an unguaranteed deal to get us there. Moving Telfair's salary shouldn't be a huge priority, but it is salary we don't want.

[Foye]

I'd rather keep Telfair until Jonny Flynn is back.

[shangrila]

Being under the mininimum isn't a big deal. We've got until opening day to get there, and we could sign someone to an unguaranteed deal to get us there. Moving Telfair's salary shouldn't be a huge priority, but it is salary we don't want.

I suppose you could replace Telfair's salary with Tolliver and someone else, maybe Weaver, to hit the minimum.

[Fire Mchale]

Sebastian Telfair at one year and 2.7M isn't a contract that the Wolves can consider oppressive. If we rid ourselves of his deal, we have to immediately replace him with another player since we have to have a backup PG with Flynn likely out at the start of the year. Even at the league minimum we're only saving a million or two, who has to be flipped back into a Tolliever-type player. The money will get spent one way or another, why generate a huge plus for another team in the process?

What concerns me in this deal is that the Wolves give CHA a huge TPE which will ultimately be direct competition for our own cap space. Let CHA waive Dampier themselves, they'll still be over the cap and won't have the ability to compete with us at the deadline with their TPE and we can eat the extra million or so that we'll have to pay Telfair.

[shrink]

What concerns me in this deal is that the Wolves give CHA a huge TPE which will ultimately be direct competition for our own cap space. Let CHA waive Dampier themselves, they'll still be over the cap and won't have the ability to compete with us at the deadline with their TPE and we can eat the extra million or so that we'll have to pay Telfair.

That won't happen. If we say "no," CHA will still get its TPE by going to SAC or OKC.

[Swimmer]

I think you are overestimating the value of this TPE, FM. We would clear 2.7M off our cap and save that much in how much we have to pay. Maybe we would just spend it on Tolliver or something, but it is reallocating money to a player we want, for no actual cost to us except potential future competition.

Charlotte would have to take on a huge financial commitment if they are going to utilize the TPE, which they seem reluctant to do. Even if they get a TPE for next year, a) they probably won't be competiting for the same subset of players as we will, and b) tons of teams will have significant space next year, competiting for a few FAs. We will likely want young players, picks, etc. in exchange for cap space, while Charlotte will want immediate vet contributors.

[Fire Mchale]

What concerns me in this deal is that the Wolves give CHA a huge TPE which will ultimately be direct competition for our own cap space. Let CHA waive Dampier themselves, they'll still be over the cap and won't have the ability to compete with us at the deadline with their TPE and we can eat the extra million or so that we'll have to pay Telfair.

That won't happen. If we say "no," CHA will still get its TPE by going to SAC or OKC.

If that's the case, then that's the case. My issue here is that I just don't know that Telfair's contract is enough of a burden to merit making the move. It's true that we'll save money on this year's cap, but it immediately triggers a hunt for another PG. I suppose there's another FA PG that Kahn and Rambis might be interested in, but there really aren't any contributors out there. I don't love Telfair as a player, but I think he has more ability to contribute to this team than our other options and if it comes down to wanting to trade him at the deadline (assuming Flynn is healthy) there will be more of a market for him IMO.

At the end of the day I would rather have Telfair at an extra million or so a year than Earl Watson and if there's a market for him at the deadline, great. If not, we spent an extra million this year and his deal expires after the year.

[Fire Mchale]

I think you are overestimating the value of this TPE, FM. We would clear 2.7M off our cap and save that much in how much we have to pay. Maybe we would just spend it on Tolliver or something, but it is reallocating money to a player we want, for no actual cost to us except potential future competition.

Swimmer, I would agree that saving money on a player that's viewed as being interchangable is a plus. If we were closer to the cap or this move allowed us to avoid luxury tax, etc, I would be on the bandwagon. With the amount of cap room we already have, an extra million or so doesn't carry the same weight IMO. Were there more attractive FAs out there this would make a ton of sense, but there's nothing left out there. Looking at it from a player vs player view, I think Bassy might be an upgrade over the Earl Watsons of the world and since we don't have cap issues I want as competitive of a team as we can field.

[Swimmer]

I don't disagree with most of what you said, but I think it's a pretty marginal difference between PG X and Telfair, perhaps one that is not worth 1M in cap and 1M in cash savings (or whatever that difference might be). We only need that PG X for about a month, when JFly gets back. Then the question is simply how much you want to pay someone to sit on your bench, and why you want to give that money to that bench player, instead of to a player you might use (like Tolliver).

I understand that we can sign Tolliver anyways, but apparently cost-cutting is a major theme of this year, for Taylor/Kahn.

[shrink]

MIN will likely sign a vet-min PG, and will only be on the hook for about $750,000 of his salary (the NBA paying the rest based on his years of experience).

The savings from Telfair is more like $2 mil.

[Fire Mchale]

A savings is a savings, but I think I would rather keep Telfair and play him or arrange a deal that would return the 2nd round pick we used to get him.