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Can we get the firepower to compete with teams like the Heat, Lakers, and any of the other NBA powerhouses?

Main core: Rubio, Love, Johnson, 2011 pick (don't kill the messenger)
Role players: Ridnour, Telfair (for now), Ellington, Brewer, Webster, Tolliver, Milicic, Hayward
Players with decent upside: Flynn, Pekovic, Beasley

I think it's fair to predict the third worst record in the NBA (I really hope that doesn't make me a homer for believing that). If that's true, we most likely would have a top 5 pick (technically there is a 4% chance of us getting the 6th pick).

I believe Rubio's best upside has been always been Nash while Johnson's best case has been Shawn Marion (NBADraft.net and DX.com). If we manage to partially recreate the Phoenix suns (which seems to be the best upside for these guys) and add Love and our 2011 pick to the equation, would we be able to compete with a contender on any given day?

I don't know why we couldn't. Kahn is slowly building a solid core group. We are not far away. If we could come away from next offseason with Rubio and Harrison Barnes, I think we'd have a good shot at the 2012 playoffs.

Considering many teams are getting old; The Spurs, the Suns, the Mavs, the Celtics, etc....I think we could become pretty good once the old timers finally blow themselves up. I still think that LA, MIA, POR, and OKC will be pretty tough even if the Wolves reach their full potential.

On a sidenote...Personally, I've never even remotely saw or understood the Wes-Marion comparisons. Just saying.

Also, kind of knitpicking (sp?) at this point, but I am not so sure Pek has any more upside than a Darko, Ellington, Brewer, etc.

With all that said, I don't disagree with the premise of our assets actually being better than seemingly most would ever give us credit for.

Lastly, LAL is a fairly old team too. I also think what they've got going in Portland is a little over rated. Aside from Roy (which I recognize as being a big difference) I honestly don't believe the rest of that roster is all that much better than what we've got.

we better hope that the 2011 1st round pick becomes a top 20 player (might even need to be a top 10), otherwise we won't compete with a team like OKC

skorff26 wrote:we better hope that the 2011 1st round pick becomes a top 20 player (might even need to be a top 10), otherwise we won't compete with a team like OKC

We'll see. OKC should have some tough choices to make before too long, especially with the new CBA coming. They just signed Durant, which is huge and necessary, but they will have to pay Westbrook soon. It seems like many people pretty much expect them to lose Green rather than overpay him to be a 6th-7th man pretending to be a starter. I'm curious if they'll be willing to go into luxury territory to keep that team together long term.

It's possible, but not likely. Beasley and Darko would both have to reach their ceilings, Rubio would have to come over and eviscerate opposing defenses, Love would have to start making layups, et cetera, et cetera.

There's some decent young talent and no albatross contracts, but it's just less likely this core ends up good enough to contend, as is the case with most cores.

TyKixx wrote:On a sidenote...Personally, I've never even remotely saw or understood the Wes-Marion comparisons. Just saying.

Also, kind of knitpicking (sp?) at this point, but I am not so sure Pek has any more upside than a Darko, Ellington, Brewer, etc.

With all that said, I don't disagree with the premise of our assets actually being better than seemingly most would ever give us credit for.

Lastly, LAL is a fairly old team too. I also think what they've got going in Portland is a little over rated. Aside from Roy (which I recognize as being a big difference) I honestly don't believe the rest of that roster is all that much better than what we've got.

I was at first skeptical until I read a few reports on DX and NBADraft.net. I was interested when I read this online

Marion - UNLV (like Johnson, he transferred after 2 years at another college)
18.7 PPG 9.3 RPG 1.2 APG
32.9 MPG 2.5 SPG 1.9 BPG
52.9 FG% 29.9 3P% 73.0 FT%

Johnson
16.5 PPG 8.5 RPG 2.2 APG
35.0 MPG 1.7 SPG 1.8 BPG
50.2 FG% 41.5 FG% 77.2 FT%

I don’t think Pekovic will be anything super special, but I listed him under players with decent potential because he was a #31 pick on a pretty good contract. It was the fact that he could be such a steal that made me place him on that list. I would absolutely love to see Johnson and Pekovic on the court together.

If we theoretically became a playoff team, I thought LA would give us a few years of hell. I agree entirely about Portland, OKC is who we should be worried about. I used to believe Utah was a huge threat, but Boozer bailed and NYK didn’t give them a top 4 pick like a lot of Utah fans had hoped for.

I always base my comparisons off of style & abilities not stats, which is why I don't see it.

Marion's lack of perimeter game and individual offensive arsenal lead me to believe he was a really good system player with Nash in D'Antoni's system. Marion was a pretty raw offensive player, more of an athlete type coming into the league. Well, he really didn't seem to develop all that much. I guess his broken jumpshot improved some, but mostly in catch and shoot situations. Most of his offense has always just been filling lanes and crashing the boards, alot of hustle points.

I think Wes already has a more polished offensive repetoire (sp?). If need be, especially in the triangle, I think Wes can transistion himself into playing some 2-3 whereas I see Marion's versatility being that more of a combo forward where he can play some 4 on running teams that go small.

Defensively, I even like Wes's upside over what Marion is defensively. I don't know, I just don't really see it aside from them both being athletic wing players.

TyKixx wrote:I always base my comparisons off of style & abilities not stats, which is why I don't see it.

Marion's lack of perimeter game and individual offensive arsenal lead me to believe he was a really good system player with Nash in D'Antoni's system. Marion was a pretty raw offensive player, more of an athlete type coming into the league. Well, he really didn't seem to develop all that much. I guess his broken jumpshot improved some, but mostly in catch and shoot situations. Most of his offense has always just been filling lanes and crashing the boards, alot of hustle points.

I think Wes already has a more polished offensive repetoire (sp?). If need be, especially in the triangle, I think Wes can transistion himself into playing some 2-3 whereas I see Marion's versatility being that more of a combo forward where he can play some 4 on running teams that go small.

Defensively, I even like Wes's upside over what Marion is defensively. I don't know, I just don't really see it aside from them both being athletic wing players.

It really wasn't my main point, just a fun fact. I was more interested by Marion’s transfer for his 3rd year.

I think Johnson has a lot of the same tools that Marion had on the defensive end. One of Johnson’s underrated abilities is that he’s a high energy guy. In his 3rd season, Johnson managed to play 35 mpg without missing a beat. I really hope Johnson won’t need to play the 40 mpg Marion did when he was in his prime years, and instead reserve it for the playoffs, but we’ve got to do what we’ve got to do. We already know that he’s got great size for the position including both height and wingspan. He needs to bulk up a bit, but he’s still going to grab the rebounds and block the shots. He isn’t one of those jack of all trades – master of none type cases, he can do those things effectively.

Fortunately Johnson isn’t raw and is as NBA ready as you can hope for. I agree that Johnson should be the better offensive player (definitely the better shooter and is more unselfish), but I think Johnson is going to share a lot of the same benefits that Marion had with Nash. Both guys can’t seem to make their own shot and still lack decent ballhandling skills, but Nash always could create shots and theoretically so will Rubio. I really hope Pekovic becomes a post threat because I want Johnson to get some easy buckets.

Anyway I know that Johnson isn’t Marion 2.0 and Rubio isn’t Nash, but I think these guys have more similarities than they differences, and at the very least are very comparable. The truth I don't really care about the comparison, I would rather have my OP viewed as would Johnson be as valuable as Shawn Marion is.

Yea. We may be able to re-create a poor man's Sun's team but considering how far the Sun's have gotten we wont be winning any titles in the near future. The main reason why I am opposed to our dedication to be a run and gun team is becasue I don't believe those teams are capable of winning the title unless they are uniquely elite. I feel as if we are just going to waste away another decade of Minnesota basketball.

Run and gun doesn't mean much except for it's fun to watch. If you want to win you play efficient offense, tough defense, and rebound. Whether we win or not depends on how our players develop. The main issue is finding a top 5-10 player somewhere.
Not very many teams win championships, the Suns issue wasn't the run and gun. It was that their top 2 players sucked at defense and that's tough to compensate for.

Worm Guts wrote:Run and gun doesn't mean much except for it's fun to watch. If you want to win you play efficient offense, tough defense, and rebound. Whether we win or not depends on how our players develop. The main issue is finding a top 5-10 player somewhere.
Not very many teams win championships, the Suns issue wasn't the run and gun. It was that their top 2 players sucked at defense and that's tough to compensate for.

True. The one positive is that a number of the Wolves players have at least the talent to be plus defenders. If the team develops above average defense, that would be a major upgrade over those Suns teams.

there's so much potential that would need to be reached, I don't think we'll be a finals contender for at least the next 3 years, probably 5.

We are perpetually 3 years away.

If most of the guys start to reach their potential I think we could have a very solid "playoff" core but we would still be short of Finals contention. Over the next two years I think most of the following would have to happen for us to make that next jump:

- Beasley becomes a legit #1 option on offense. He develops a consistent jumper while still attacking the rim (basically becoming a Melo like 3). Or we get Harrison Barnes.

- Rubio comes over and makes a very smooth transition. His jumper improves enough that he can become a 35-40% shooter from 3 (mainly on catch and shoot).

- Love becomes THE leader of the team and works to get better at D. He can't expect to play at the end of big games if he remains a liability on that end of the floor.

- Rambis creates a focus on defense. We all heard how instrumental he was in the '09 Lakers championship by creating their defensive schemes so I hope this shouldn't be too much of a stretch. Actually I think we could give Durant a hell of a time over a 7 game series with Corey/Wes/Webster/Lazar all taking turns on him.

Like a lot of people have said, I like the foundation but realize that the development is going to be the biggest key. If 2 years from now, 3 out of these 4 things happen, I think we would be well on our way to a WCF appearance but again, that is a HUGE if.

Calinks wrote:Yea. We may be able to re-create a poor man's Sun's team but considering how far the Sun's have gotten we wont be winning any titles in the near future. The main reason why I am opposed to our dedication to be a run and gun team is becasue I don't believe those teams are capable of winning the title unless they are uniquely elite. I feel as if we are just going to waste away another decade of Minnesota basketball.

Los Suns were a legit contender for quite awhile. Also, if we want to be contenders against teams like the Lakers we need to draft the next best big, not a harrison barnes.

If we keep the nucleus of Rubio-Beasley-Love intact for 4+ years and they all develop optimally (Rubio, jumpshot; Love, defense and veteran-level post moves; Beasley, elite #1 scorer), we have a shot.

They will all be entering their primes in 3-4 years. OKC is the only other team with a such a young core that has so much upside. The Thunder have the edge on us in almost every way, of course, but the question is could we be contenders. I say yes.

Our main three have the chance to be very good and very complementary players. It is far from certain that they will reach their optimal development, of course, but if they do, this team could contend.

The thing that inspires me the most as a fan is just knowing that this roster could return almost entirely intact next year, and reasonably should go without major alteration. That, right there, is a victory. Teams that develop together build on court timing and chemistry. Role players become valuable trade assets and the team becomes attractive to free agents. This is where we are looking to go as a team. It won't be here next year (and certainly not this year), but I think that a few seasons from now we debut in the playoffs.

pumunga wrote:

Calinks wrote:Yea. We may be able to re-create a poor man's Sun's team but considering how far the Sun's have gotten we wont be winning any titles in the near future. The main reason why I am opposed to our dedication to be a run and gun team is becasue I don't believe those teams are capable of winning the title unless they are uniquely elite. I feel as if we are just going to waste away another decade of Minnesota basketball.

Los Suns were a legit contender for quite awhile. Also, if we want to be contenders against teams like the Lakers we need to draft the next best big, not a harrison barnes.

Tell Kahn that

pumunga wrote:

Calinks wrote:Yea. We may be able to re-create a poor man's Sun's team but considering how far the Sun's have gotten we wont be winning any titles in the near future. The main reason why I am opposed to our dedication to be a run and gun team is becasue I don't believe those teams are capable of winning the title unless they are uniquely elite. I feel as if we are just going to waste away another decade of Minnesota basketball.

Los Suns were a legit contender for quite awhile. Also, if we want to be contenders against teams like the Lakers we need to draft the next best big, not a harrison barnes.

Then we'll hear more of Love's whining next offseason...