RealGM

The averages for the 4 key players at the 2 and 3 spots over the five pre-season games has changed dramtically, between the first 3 and the last 2 games.

First 3 games looked like:

Beasley - 23 mins and 18.3 pts shooting 46%
Wesley - 21 mins and 12.3 pts shooting 65%
Webster - 28 mins and 17.7 pts shooting 53%
Brewer - 16 mins and 3.3 pts shooting 5%

Looking at those numbers, it was clear that Beasley was locked in for the SF spot, Wes for SG and Webster as 6th man. Brewer was looking like the odd man out.

But look at the last 2 games and the differences in averages:

Beasley - 18 mins and 7 pts shooting 31%
Wesley - 20 mins and 3.5 pts shooting 21%
Webster - 26 mins and 9 pts shooting 36%
Brewer - 17 mins and 7.5 pts shooting 41%

Brewer has shot slighty better and played fewer mins than the other 3 guys. Wes has gone cold and Bealsey has been a non-factor. Webster is still contributing solid numbers off the bench. What does this all mean? Well its pretty clear that there still is no distinctive lock down for these two starting spots as each player has had highs and lows in the 5 games.

The way I see it, Brewer is clearly a better player off the bench, him and Webster can provide the scoring and defense that is needed to keep them in the game. Each player here can easily average 25 mins per game. I dont think any of them will average 30 mins plus over the season.

Coach Rambis had this to say about the effort today:

"I want to rely on my team, I don't want to rely on my second unit," Rambis said. "The message that we're trying to send to everybody: There is somebody behind you of high quality who is frothing at the mouth ready to play."

I still like Wes/Beasley as our 2/3 starters, but ride the hot hand by all means and give 30+ to guys like Webster/Brewer, even throw some minutes at Lazar and Ellington if the situation calls for it. This is why we need to keep Brewer, everybody has been way up and down at the 2/3, I don't think there's anybody we can rely on to stay consistent at this point.

Beas chucks to much, low efficiency and very low rebounding for sf/pf tweener. Surprisingly solid on rebounds and long range shooting, turnover machine. Very iffy defense.
Webster got most minutes, solid efficiency, other numbers ok for sg, nothing spectacular. Brings solid to great D.
Brewer terribler shooting so far, i guess nice defence, haven't seen enough to say for sure though.
Johnson is a great shooter, to passive most of the games, low rebounding/assist numbers, i expected more form a few college games i've seen.

Now THERE'S a conversation we'll be having all year. May as well make it a sticky. It's amazing what depth will do for you. If you don't produce, there are good alternatives at every position.

Exactly. These guys are going to be up and down all season long. Martell has been inconsistent his whole career. Brewer is Brewer. Beasley is learning how to play two positions in a new system. Johnson is a rookie. The whole team is very young.

If they can put in a consistent effort on defense and ride the hot hand on offense, they will surprise a lot of people this year, though.

Yeah I don't see that ONE leading scorer, it's gonna be someone new every night. Every ones stats are gonna be spread out and possibly similar but I see Johnson getting a lot of the time at SG if he continues to perform like he's been doing but if Webster is on a roll, he'll be in for the majority of the time but continue to come off the bench. I don't see Beasley sitting too much.

Not liking the fact (except for maybe Webster/Ellington) our 2/3 guys can't create, or don't have great handles.

With that said, i'm not sure who should start at the 2. Johnson/Webster play good defense, with Webster a little more complete right now. Do we want that starting, or do we need that in the second unit?

skydragonslashs wrote:Not liking the fact (except for maybe Webster/Ellington) our 2/3 guys can't create, or don't have great handles.

With that said, i'm not sure who should start at the 2. Johnson/Webster play good defense, with Webster a little more complete right now. Do we want that starting, or do we need that in the second unit?

I think we start Johnson because he is not a go to scorer right now. I'm not saying Webster is but he has shown he is not afraid to lead the team which would be really nice of the bench

I still want to see Johnson and Webster as the starting wings. If Beasley has to start then i'd go Johnson and Beasley.

Webster is kinda playing himself into the starting lineup, but I still want to force Beasley to be a starting SF in this league

I say either Johnson/Beasley or Webster/Beasley. I think we have no other choice but to keep Beasley in the lineup as a SF to start the season. Webster I think will be more consistent than Johnson for a while in the beginning but his shooting would be nice to have off the bench.

Beasley is the starting SF. I think Rambis also likes Webster off the bench as 6th man. Now the only question is what combos work best: Brewer/Beasley and Webster/Johnson, or Johnson/Beasley and Brewer/Webster? Personally, I'd go with the first option.

If Brewer and Webster end up coming off the bench we will have the beginning of a very defensively strong 2nd unit. I think maybe Brewer starts at the 2 just because he plays D so well. Only thing is I want to see Johnson's offense on the first unit. I predict that we will see Johnson starting in direct proportion to his defensive ability vis a vis NBA 2guards.

I know Rambis has publicly played with the idea of a 5-man second squad that could be put in all together, but all in all I think the different pairings available at the 2/3 will make it so we have more like three or four regular lineups.

[2/3]:
[Johnson/Beasley]
[Webster/Beasley]
[Webster/Johnson]
[Webster/Brewer]
[Johnson/Brewer]


In particular I really like what could happen with Webster/Johnson and Beasley at the 4. We either do it with Darko in there or Pek will have to pick up the NBA low post defense really fast, but I think there's too much 3 pt firepower with Webster and Johnson on the court together for it to not happen. Add Beasley driving or catching ally-oops and things get really interesting.

No matter what, they're going to be fast.


(edited for formatting)

Might be time to throw Ellington into the equation? Only one pre-season game, but it's going to be interesting to see how Rambis handles his minutes this season.

southern wolf wrote:Might be time to throw Ellington into the equation? Only one pre-season game, but it's going to be interesting to see how Rambis handles his minutes this season.

He's looked solid all preseason. His shooting is right up there with Webster and Johnson, but he appears to have the best handles and be the best passer of the group right now. I would like to see him start once more.

We have too many good options on the wings. I think Kahn should pull a quantity for superior quality typetrade, we also have some picks to throw in.

Turnover_21 wrote:We have too many good options on the wings. I think Kahn should pull a quantity for superior quality typetrade, we also have some picks to throw in.

Johnson + 2 firsts for Cousins?

Cousins/Darko/Pek
Love/Tolliver
Beasley/Brewer
Webster/Ellington
Flynn/Ridnour

You guys should have just drafted him from the beginning and you wouldn't have had to throw in 2 firsts

southern wolf wrote:Might be time to throw Ellington into the equation? Only one pre-season game, but it's going to be interesting to see how Rambis handles his minutes this season.

Ellington is our truest 2guard, and after last night he definitely deserves another start.

Rambis' recent quote that he wants his players to know that there's someone hungry and talented breathing down their backs wanting to start is key. Of course, he might just be spinning a situation that he has. But if so, it's good spin.

I really think it's too early to trade right now. Somewhere in the January-February range we might be able to make a deal, but the mechanics of the situation are against us. Teams that do a quality for quantity deal are usually more engaged in rebuilding than the team they deal with. Not many teams that are more in that zone than we are.

Furthermore, there's not a ton of really great 2guards out there right now. Especially not in an all-around player way that Rambis wants (and our offense demands). And most of them are too old for our young team (Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili) or overpaid (Ben Gordon, Joe Johnson). And I don't think Brandon Roy is on the market. Kevin Martin *might* be a good option, but would he mesh? Would he stay healthy? I dunno. And unfortunately, I think that Philly knows how good of a thing they have with Iguodala.

I think we may be "stuck" with the options we have right now, but really, people, we're doing pretty good! "Too many talented wings" is a great problem to have!

Chosen01 wrote:You guys should have just drafted him from the beginning and you wouldn't have had to throw in 2 firsts

How do you figure?