Darko's ceiling is still scary high

[teven_1]

It's important to not get caught up in the hype of one game. I know this as much as anyone.
To come out and proclaim Darko a top 5 center after last nights performance would be crazy, I'm not here to suggest that.
Regardless of what will happen with Darko's career and regardless of what numbers he puts up on Monday (although I hope they're good) the guy has the potential to be better than any of us can imagine.
Again, keep what I'm saying in perspective. I'm not saying he will be amazing I'm saying he CAN be.

Let that prefice Kurt's thoughts on Darkos game:
"Physically, we think his shots and moves can get better, " Rambis said. "Those are all back-to-the-basket things he's doing now. He has a facing-the-basket game, too, that he hasn't gotten to the point where he's confident in. He can pass the ball, handle it. Obviously he can defend and block some shots, rebound the ball. I don't know what his limit is. But when you have someone of his size (7 feet, 275 pounds), length and strength and mobility? It's hard to discern what their limit is."
Darko in many ways has a combination of tools that are extremely rare. I think that's why he's struggled, stubborn coaches like Larry Brown and D'antoni aren't going to think about how to incorporate a guy like Darko. Incompetent Grizzlies coaches aren't going to know how.

Darko could still not pan out, he could still just become an ok player.
That doesn't mean his ceiling of where he COULD go isn't disturbingly high.
Darko haters gonna hate, but nothing Rambis said is a lie: "when you have someone of his size (7 feet, 275 pounds), length and strength and mobility? It's hard to discern what their limit is."

I just wrote this because a lot of guys have been saying they'd be happy to see him just be serviceable for the next few years. I agree, that's fine, but that's not what I'm rooting for.

[LordBaldric]

Why people just talk about physical attributes when talking about talent instead of including their mental game (Darko's notoriously soft and fragile mind) is beyond me. Do you think we should trade Love for Tyrus Thomas?

[teven_1]

Why people just talk about physical attributes when talking about talent instead of including their mental game (Darko's notoriously soft and fragile mind) is beyond me. Do you think we should trade Love for Tyrus Thomas?

again this is not based on his physical attributes only. He can do more than run.
He can run with the basketball, he can dribble it, he can pass.

All scouting reports from the past have indicated he has a great jump shot.

I can ask the same question to you
what is a "fragile mind"? are you suggesting he's going to break down and cry like Adam Morrison?

Considering he came here at 17 from Serbia and had to deal with Larry Brown and he didn't kill anyone I'd say he's pretty mentally tough.

He's still in the L isn't he? a lotta guys walk away and open car dealerships.

you can say it was about the money but I don't believe that

[teven_1]

Why people just talk about physical attributes when talking about talent instead of including their mental game (Darko's notoriously soft and fragile mind) is beyond me. Do you think we should trade Love for Tyrus Thomas?

also a 6'8 athlete is a little less special than a 7'1 guy who can move.
Although yes if TT put it together he'd also be quite a force (although I haven't watched him much)
Furthermore again. this guy has offensive skill, talent.

There's different forms of Mental weakness:
fear,
indifference,
lack of passion for the game.
Darkos mental weakness comes from wanting to play and be great and not getting a chance, I'd be concerned if that sorta thing DIDN'T bother him.

Never heard of him being too mentally weak to go out there and play (i.e. begging not to play, weak body language etc)

[Swish4]

Western Conference Centers on the All Star Ballot


Biedrins, Andris, Golden State
Bynum, Andrew, L.A. Lakers
Camby, Marcus, Portland
Cousins, DeMarcus, Sacramento
Gasol, Marc, Memphis
Haywood, Brendan, Dallas
Kaman, Chris, L.A. Clippers
Lopez, Robin, Phoenix
Nene, Denver
Okafor, Emeka, New Orleans
Okur, Mehmet, Utah
Yao, Ming, Houston

Pretty sorry lot.

I'll take Darko over most of these guys.

[C.lupus]

Baldric is right. Darko's limitations have always been mental. He is easily frustrated and loses his confidence too easily. He needs to be comfortable and coddled. Great players have a great confidence and a killer instinct that makes them great. Darko has all the physical tools in the world but, unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have that confidence and killer instinct that would take him to the next level.

I guess the question is if he lacks that naturally or did he lose it from his early experiences in the NBA. Rambis is betting it is the latter. I hope he is right but...

[Calinks]

I just cant get as excited as all of you over Darko.He had a great game but I don't seem him having really good games except in stretches. I hope he gets better but I don't think he's ever going to be a really good players.

[teven_1]

I just cant get as excited as all of you over Darko.He had a great game but I don't seem him having really good games except in stretches. I hope he gets better but I don't think he's ever going to be a really good players.

you may be right but that doesn't change how high his ceiling is.

[teven_1]

Baldric is right. Darko's limitations have always been mental. He is easily frustrated and loses his confidence too easily. He needs to be comfortable and coddled. Great players have a great confidence and a killer instinct that makes them great. Darko has all the physical tools in the world but, unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have that confidence and killer instinct that would take him to the next level.

I guess the question is if he lacks that naturally or did he lose it from his early experiences in the NBA. Rambis is betting it is the latter. I hope he is right but...

Yes but it's more than physical tools as well.
the interesting thing about Darko is he wasn't a "project" coming into the League, people always said he could handle the ball, shoot jumpers, 3's, drive, finish around the hoop.

I don't think LB in the Pistons had a problem with Darkos confidence or killer instinct. They clashed because of the type of player they thought Darko should be.
Darko wanted to be Kukoc, LB wanted him to be Bill Russell (as if that's even fair).

I don't think it was confidence or lack of a killer instinct that kept him off the court it was LB, and the talent level of the Pistons (but mostly LB)
If Darko was guilty of anything it maybe have been bad attitude and laziness. those things have gone.

I think this lack of confidence is new and recent, he didn't really get to play at his other stops, for his first opportunity with major minutes and the amount of rust he's shaking off he's doing well.

For these reasons I think it's still safe to say his ceiling is high, whether he falls apart or not will be based more on how hard he works, if he can stay healthy, out of foul trouble and just generally if he gets it together.

I don't think he's as mentally weak as we think.

[teven_1]

Again I agree one game is not enough and there's no guarantee he will get things together.
I just created this topic to discuss just how unique of a player he is.
I'm not suggesting water to wine here, but the guy could be far more than most middling 16 Million over 4 years centers

[GopherIt!]

Darko's ceiling is still scary high

I'll say.

[big3_8_19_21]

I think a big problem with Darko's confidence in the past is the lofty expectations put on him and the lack of playing time to develop with coaches and front offices treating him with skepticism rather than optimism. Knowing he won't be yanked immediately for missing a jump shot and being on a team that gave up Brian Cardinal to get him rather than the number 2 overall pick, plus NOT being 17 years old and having Kahn and Rambis trust him I think is boosting his confidence and stability tremendously.

I'm not saying he's going to be some star, but if he's going to become at least a solid player anywhere, it's here.

[shangrila]

I think his ceiling is a good starter on a championship team, think Kendrick Perkins. He won't ever be a star but if he can continue to work on his issues, mostly mental ones, then I'll be fine penciling him in as the starting centre for the next decade or so.

Unless we get a Dwight Howard or healthy Greg Oden.

[Klomp]

The big performance marked the continuation of a trend. Over the past several games, Darko has played better and better. Clearly he is rounding into shape. His confidence is on the rise. And, at long last, he looks as if he belongs. On Friday he recorded career highs in points and blocks. He tied career highs in rebounds and assists.

Oddly enough, on his first trip downcourt he got tripped up wound up on his back. As far as omens go, that probably was the worst imaginable. And then he got up and played great.

"Yeah, it looks bad," he said with a laugh. "You just never know. I've been working on my shot. The coaches have been watching a lot of tape, and they look at my shot and they say my base was off balance. That's why they say all my shots were going away. So we're kind of working on it, and my base is a little bit wider."

Darko said he's been working with coach Kurt Rambis before and after practice. It's really paid off. And it appears to be one of the first pieces of tangible evidence that Rambis can coach. There really has been no way to tell. He had a hodgepodge of inadequate players last season. This year, he's basically working with a new team.

"The last three games we've been working with Darko on his confidence," Rambis said. "I don't know what type of basketball shape Darko was in to start the year. I don't know how much playing he had been actually doing. I think he is finding his rhythm now. He is being more aggressive and shooting the ball the way he should be shooting the basketball.

"He is starting to play the way we had hoped and envisioned he would play."

http://www.twincities.com/timberwolves/ci_16663433

[Klomp]

After the best game of his life -- he had 23 points, 16 rebounds, six blocks and five assists, becoming the only Wolves player not named Kevin Garnett to have 20-plus points, 15-plus rebounds, and at least five blocks and assists in a game. Milicic is fourth in the league in blocks.

But he's still No. 1 in taking abuse. The Wolves' decision to re-sign Milicic has drawn more national criticism than just about anything they've done since David Kahn took over as president of basketball operations. Most feel they paid too much by giving Milicic $20 million over four years, though only $16 million is guaranteed.

Just the other day a national writer came through town and called Milicic the league's worst starter. But the fact is, if Milicic continues to play good post defense, rebound the ball and block shots without scoring a lot of points, that contract is a bargain.

"There are a lot of people in this league making $12, $13 million and they are not playing at all," said Milicic. "They can say whatever the [heck] they want to say. I'm not going to worry."

To Milicic, it's all about steady playing time and having a coaching staff that believes in him enough to keep him out there.

"I've had a chance to play a lot," said Milicic, who is averaging better than 25 minutes per game. "When you play a lot good things can happen. You don't have to rush, you don't have to force your shots, nothing like that. You just have to play."

Nights like Friday aren't going to happen often. Against the Lakers, Milicic helped fill the void created by Kevin Love's struggles. But Rambis feels there is still a big upside to Milicic's game.

"Physically, we think his shots and moves can get better, " Rambis said. "Those are all back-to-the-basket things he's doing now. He has a facing-the-basket game, too, that he hasn't gotten to the point where he's confident in. He can pass the ball, handle it. Obviously he can defend and block some shots, rebound the ball. I don't know what his limit is. But when you have someone of his size (7 feet, 275 pounds), length and strength and mobility? It's hard to discern what their limit is."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/109534389.html

So ... when he's that close to the basket, why not just dunk the ball, like he did spinning past Griffin, more often?

"I got to make those, I got to dunk those balls, but I like to shoot those hooks better than dunks," he said. "For me, I always like those shots. I like layups and stuff better than dunking.

"I like those little hooks. That's just me."

Milicic's preference for flair over efficiency might lead you to believe he's all style over substance, that he doesn't care enough.

"If people think that about him, that's where they're wrong," Beasley said. "Darko's real tough on himself. Unless he's perfect, he's not happy. Darko is as passionate as anybody on this team. He misses a shot, no matter how he misses it, he's down. He's in the gym early, shooting a million jump hooks a day.

"Darko's talented. He makes it look easy. He's real nonchalant. That's him as a person. But Darko, he works as hard, if not harder, than people ever understand."

But as pretty and soft as that little hook shot is, wouldn't you just like to see leave no room for doubt more often and simply reach for the rim?

"That would be nice, yes," Rambis said.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/109397789.html

[Dewey]

I think some are way over-analyzing this ... the bottom-line is: Darko agreed to a very reasonable contract, and respectively, management has accommodated him with consistent playing time to give him the opportunity to develop. A sound "low-risk" move from day 1. Let the chips fall.

[Foye]

I think some are way over-analyzing this ... the bottom-line is: Darko agreed to a very reasonable contract, and respectively, management has accommodated him with consistent playing time to give him the opportunity to develop. A sound "low-risk" move from day 1. Let the chips fall.

Yeah, that sums it up pretty well. Hopefully he'll turn the corner offensively and continue to play well throughout the season. If he doesn't he's still a serviceable backup for the future and we can go into a different direction. It's not like his contract is a financial burden that hurts the long term progress of the team.

Solid move by David Kahn. If it works out he's going to be a hero. The man who put together a team out of busts. If it doesn't work out it doesn't matter and the team is still flexibile enough to go in other directions. I like that Darko contract.

[Basti]

Western Conference Centers on the All Star Ballot


Biedrins, Andris, Golden State
Bynum, Andrew, L.A. Lakers
Camby, Marcus, Portland
Cousins, DeMarcus, Sacramento
Gasol, Marc, Memphis
Haywood, Brendan, Dallas
Kaman, Chris, L.A. Clippers
Lopez, Robin, Phoenix
Nene, Denver
Okafor, Emeka, New Orleans
Okur, Mehmet, Utah
Yao, Ming, Houston

Pretty sorry lot.

I'll take Darko over most of these guys.

If everyone was healthy the majority of these guys are better than Darko.

[teven_1]

yeah I should have been more careful with the phrasing of this thread. Honestly these kind of topics are dangerous.
All I wanted to say was that, the quote I posted by Rambis does tell us that there are things Darko can do that are very unique for his size.
That is more than ability but also skills he has.

I really like Rambis' attitude of never being satisfied because he realize Darko can keep doing more and more. I just kinda wanted to point that out, that his ceiling is really high and while it would be foolish to expect manna from heaven, lets remember there are a lot better case scenarios than a 10 pts 2 blocks per game player, while at the same time it could also turn out a lot worse

[Worm Guts]

I think some are way over-analyzing this ... the bottom-line is: Darko agreed to a very reasonable contract, and respectively, management has accommodated him with consistent playing time to give him the opportunity to develop. A sound "low-risk" move from day 1. Let the chips fall.

When you say Darko agreed to a reasonable contract, you make sound like he sacrificed money to be here and that's just not true. We gave him more than anyone else in the NBA would have. Darko has the ability to make it look like a reasonable contract or maybe even a bargain, but I don't he did us a huge favor by signing the contract.