How good this team would be?

NewWolvesOrder · Post #1 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 3:00 pm

Let's say we trade Beasley for Iggy, then follow up with Brewer, Pek and our 2 lower picks for Varejao.
Both are youngish vets that play very good defense and signed longterm.

(Ricky)/ Flynn/ Luke
Iggy/ Webster/ Ellington
Wes/ Webster/ Lazar
Love/ Varejao Tolliver
Darko/ Varejao/ Kosta

At first look this team is loaded with good defenders, the only key guy that is not a defender is Love but it should be easy to hide, good size at every position.
But at first look it also seems like we lack firepower, the go-to superstar type player, but on the other hand Love can get you,close to 20ppg, co can Iggy, Wes & Martell can score in high teens. If Rubio can come close to becoming Kidd/Nash type, can we become a team similar to Suns plus defense? Could we compete with this team?

Chance1117 · Post #2 » by **Chance1117** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 3:17 pm

Why are we trading Beasly already?

digitaldropoff · Post #3 » by **digitaldropoff** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 3:44 pm

There's no reason to trade Beasley or trade for Iggy. Iggy is an okay defender, far from great...and if he's actually any better than Webster, I'd be shocked. Iggy doesn't make this team that much better, but only hamstrings us with a fat contract. Where as you get the same amount of offensive potential in Beasley for half the price. Also, we wouldn't even be giving Wes a chance, or in a way, Webby as well. Wes or Webby could easily be near the level of Iggy. But we'll never know that if we bury one on the bench and send the other one packing. And don't get me started with AV. He's overpaid, period. People confuse players who are active vs those who are actually good. Sure, AV runs around everywhere....flopping around, but he's not a difference maker...and for his price tag, he's not a guy you want on the bench. If you're tying up that much money in one bench player, he has to be a game changer...ala Jason Terry. AV is not even close to something like that. So to answer the question, I would be willing to bet we would be as bad or worse, but with less options to succeed in the future.

jpatrick · Post #4 » by **jpatrick** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 3:55 pm

Zero chance I trade Beas for Iggy. This team needs a #1 option on offense who is a scorer who can create his own shot. Our best bet for that right now is Beas. Love is not a shot creator. HIs best role on the offensive end is either as a pick and pop big or somone who just crashes the boards. He's not a great person to initiate the offense and let go one on one.

Btw, Iggy is not that guy either although I would somewhat be open to trading for him if it's purely a salary dump.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #5 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 4:25 pm

jpatrick wrote:Zero chance I trade Beas for Iggy. This team needs a #1 option on offense who is a scorer who can create his own shot. Our best bet for that right now is Beas. Love is not a shot creator. HIs best role on the offensive end is either as a pick and pop big or somone who just crashes the boards. He's not a great person to initiate the offense and let go one on one.

Btw, Iggy is not that guy either although I would somewhat be open to trading for him if it's purely a salary dump.

My idea is putting the ball in Rubio's hands and letting him decide where it goes: to a shooter who got hot(Wes or Web), a slasher(Iggy), pick'n'pop( Love), dump it to Darko down low.
All this Beasley/Melo crap in overrated. Melo couldn't advance past 1 rd untill he got Billups. Many of you pray that Beasley becomes our Melo. But what did Melo do in his career? Good scorer that is not a good defender nor a playmaker is incredibly overrated thing. This team need Beasley right now because their PGs can't create good shots for this team. And Beasley will cost half the price of Iggy only for 2 more years.
Iguodala looked great playing next to Andre Miller and they were a playoff team despite not being stacked with talent and lacking shooter, but they played good defense. Iggy will look good again next to Rubio.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #6 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 4:32 pm

digitaldropoff wrote:There's no reason to trade Beasley or trade for Iggy. Iggy is an okay defender, far from great...and if he's actually any better than Webster, I'd be shocked. Iggy doesn't make this team that much better, but only hamstrings us with a fat contract. Where as you get the same amount of offensive potential in Beasley for half the price. Also, we wouldn't even be giving Wes a chance, or in a way, Webby as well. Wes or Webby could easily be near the level of Iggy. But we'll never know that if we bury one on the bench and send the other one packing. And don't get me started with AV. He's overpaid, period. People confuse players who are active vs those who are actually good. Sure, AV runs around everywhere....flopping around, but he's not a difference maker...and for his price tag, he's not a guy you want on the bench. If you're tying up that much money in one bench player, he has to be a game changer...ala Jason Terry. AV is not even close to something like that. So to answer the question, I would be willing to bet we would be as bad or worse, but with less options to succeed in the future.

This post is full of ignorance.

Foye · Post #7 » by **Foye** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 4:40 pm

I could entertain to the idea of trading for Varejao but there's no way I would trade Beasley away for Iggy considering his contract.

Post #8 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 4:41 pm

Turnover_21 wrote:
jpatrick wrote:Zero chance I trade Beas for Iggy. This team needs a #1 option on offense who is a scorer who can create his own shot. Our best bet for that right now is Beas. Love is not a shot creator. HIs best role on the offensive end is either as a pick and pop big or somone who just crashes the boards. He's not a great person to initiate the offense and let go one on one.

Btw, Iggy is not that guy either although I would somewhat be open to trading for him if it's purely a salary dump.

My idea is putting the ball in Rubio's hands and letting him decide where it goes: to a shooter who got hot(Wes or Web), a slasher(Iggy), pick'n'pop( Love), dump it to Darko down low.
All this Beasley/Melo crap in overrated. Melo couldn't advance past 1 rd untill he got Billups. Many of you pray that Beasley becomes our Melo. But what did Melo do in his career? Good scorer that is not a good defender nor a playmaker is incredibly overrated thing. This team need Beasley right now because their PGs can't create good shots for this team. And Beasley will cost half the price of Iggy only for 2 more years.
Iguodala looked great playing next to Andre Miller and they were a playoff team despite not being stacked with talent and lacking shooter, but they played good defense. Iggy will look good again next to Rubio.

I'd rather be the Nuggets than the 76ers.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #9 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 4:44 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
Turnover_21 wrote:
jpatrick wrote:Zero chance I trade Beas for Iggy. This team needs a #1 option on offense who is a scorer who can create his own shot. Our best bet for that right now is Beas. Love is not a shot creator. HIs best role on the offensive end is either as a pick and pop big or somone who just crashes the boards. He's not a great person to initiate the offense and let go one on one.

Btw, Iggy is not that guy either although I would somewhat be open to trading for him if it's purely a salary dump.

My idea is putting the ball in Rubio's hands and letting him decide where it goes: to a shooter who got hot(Wes or Web), a slasher(Iggy), pick'n'pop( Love), dump it to Darko down low.
All this Beasley/Melo crap in overrated. Melo couldn't advance past 1 rd untill he got Billups. Many of you pray that Beasley becomes our Melo. But what did Melo do in his career? Good scorer that is not a good defender nor a playmaker is incredibly overrated thing. This team need Beasley right now because their PGs can't create good shots for this team. And Beasley will cost half the price of Iggy only for 2 more years.
Iguodala looked great playing next to Andre Miller and they were a playoff team despite not being stacked with talent and lacking shooter, but they played good defense. Iggy will look good again next to Rubio.

I'd rather be the Nuggets than the 76ers.

We have far more talent than those Miller time sixers.
P.S. and the Nuggets are screwed. I think Melo understands that him and aging Billups have no chance and that's why doesn't see himself in Denver.

Post #10 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 4:48 pm

Still, I'd rather have Melo than Iggy if that's the comparison you want to make and I'd rather have a legitimate go to #1 scorer than not have one.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #11 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 4:58 pm

Worm Guts wrote:Still, I'd rather have Melo than Iggy if that's the comparison you want to make and I'd rather have a legitimate go to #1 scorer than not have one.

MB is not on Melo level yet, and there's no guarantee he will get there. If he doesn't learn how to get himself on the FT line then this guy is fools gold.

digitaldropoff · Post #12 » by **digitaldropoff** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 5:07 pm

Turnover_21 wrote:
digitaldropoff wrote:There's no reason to trade Beasley or trade for Iggy. Iggy is an okay defender, far from great...and if he's actually any better than Webster, I'd be shocked. Iggy doesn't make this team that much better, but only hamstrings us with a fat contract. Where as you get the same amount of offensive potential in Beasley for half the price. Also, we wouldn't even be giving Wes a chance, or in a way, Webby as well. Wes or Webby could easily be near the level of Iggy. But we'll never know that if we bury one on the bench and send the other one packing. And don't get me started with AV. He's overpaid, period. People confuse players who are active vs those who are actually good. Sure, AV runs around everywhere....flopping around, but he's not a difference maker...and for his price tag, he's not a guy you want on the bench. If you're tying up that much money in one bench player, he has to be a game changer...ala Jason Terry. AV is not even close to something like that. So to answer the question, I would be willing to bet we would be as bad or worse, but with less options to succeed in the future.

This post is full of ignorance.

Perhaps, but I would argue it's far more ignorant to invest 7-9 million dollars into one guy that truly doesn't do much (AV). Also, you seem to undervalue AV while ignoring what we already have. AV is averaging 8 and 8 in 30 minutes, while Tolliver is 6 and 4 in 18 minutes. And the best part....he's paid 5 million less a year! AV sucks, deal with it. I would also argue that moving Beasley is just plain silly. We got him for virtually free, and he's just starting emerge. And also

Post #13 » by **Worm Guts** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 5:07 pm

Turnover_21 wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Still, I'd rather have Melo than Iggy if that's the comparison you want to make and I'd rather have a legitimate go to #1 scorer than not have one.

MB is not on Melo level yet, and there's no guarantee he will get there. If he doesn't learn how to get himself on the FT line then this guy is fools gold.

That's fair enough but I think the upside for the team is bigger with Beasley.

Foye · Post #14 » by **Foye** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 5:11 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
Turnover_21 wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Still, I'd rather have Melo than Iggy if that's the comparison you want to make and I'd rather have a legitimate go to #1 scorer than not have one.

MB is not on Melo level yet, and there's no guarantee he will get there. If he doesn't learn how to get himself on the FT line then this guy is fools gold.

That's fair enough but I think the upside for the team is bigger with Beasley.

+1

NewWolvesOrder · Post #15 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 5:17 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
Turnover_21 wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Still, I'd rather have Melo than Iggy if that's the comparison you want to make and I'd rather have a legitimate go to #1 scorer than not have one.

MB is not on Melo level yet, and there's no guarantee he will get there. If he doesn't learn how to get himself on the FT line then this guy is fools gold.

That's fair enough but I think the upside for the team is bigger with Beasley.

This team also needs to start playing defense or else they are not going anywhere. Beasley and Love are cornerstones of this team and neither plays any defense. Having both of them in the lineup is hard to overcome to become really good defensively. One will need to go. My prediction this Beasley at SF/ Love at PF thing our FO wants to promote will fail eventually.

Mattya · Post #16 » by **Mattya** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 5:30 pm

I actually really like the idea of Flopajao on this team.

jpatrick · Post #17 » by **jpatrick** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 6:03 pm

To be a very good team in this league you need a go to scorer. Is Beasley a go to type scorer now? No, he's way way to inconsistent. Does he have a chance to develop into that kind of player? Yeah, he has a chance (he's only 21). Does Iggy have a chance? No way in hell.

I think people on this forum are expecting way to much out of Rubio. From what I've seen this year, his team is possibly playing better w/o him on the floor. He's really really struggling with his shot and doesn't have an ability to score at the rim. He may be one of the top passers in the world but if defeneses can just sag off him, he's not going to be able to get to the rim and he's going to be a liability as other teams double Beas, KLove and Darko leaving him to take open jumpers that right now he's not making. I want to see him in a Twolves uni ASAP but don't expect him to be an instant allstar.

UK-Wolf · Post #18 » by **UK-Wolf** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 6:23 pm

I've never been a huge fan of Varejao to be honest, though I don't think he'd be a bad fit for this team (athletic big's in Minnesota are unheard of) I just don't know if he'll make that much of a difference. I LOVE Igoudala but again..at the moment, I wouldn't trade Beasley for him. Agree with what jpatrick has said really.

jballer_13 · Post #19 » by **jballer_13** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 7:33 pm

jpatrick wrote:To be a very good team in this league you need a go to scorer. Is Beasley a go to type scorer now? No, he's way way to inconsistent. Does he have a chance to develop into that kind of player? Yeah, he has a chance (he's only 21). Does Iggy have a chance? No way in hell.

I think people on this forum are expecting way to much out of Rubio. From what I've seen this year, his team is possibly playing better w/o him on the floor. He's really really struggling with his shot and doesn't have an ability to score at the rim. He may be one of the top passers in the world but if defeneses can just sag off him, he's not going to be able to get to the rim and he's going to be a liability as other teams double Beas, KLove and Darko leaving him to take open jumpers that right now he's not making. I want to see him in a Twolves uni ASAP but don't expect him to be an instant allstar.

This is how I feel towards Rubio. Rajon Rondo is my ultimate hope for Ricky. I'm losing hope in him ever having an effective jumper. I know he's incredibly young but I just don't see the confidence or fundamentals. But he can become the ultimate facilitator, making everyone around him better and knowing how to get guys going and who to feed. I'm actually more encouraged this year by seeing how involved Luke & Bassy are in the offense (ignoring the fact that Luke & Bassy suck at this).

(At OP's point) But even with Rondo's influence, the Celtics absolutely need Paul Pierce. There are times that they simply need him to take the offense over and make a shot. That's why trading Iggy for Beas just doesn't make sense to me, especially not right now.

Post #20 » by **Klomp** » Wed Dec 8, 2010 8:06 pm

Turnover_21 wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:Still, I'd rather have Melo than Iggy if that's the comparison you want to make and I'd rather have a legitimate go to #1 scorer than not have one.

MB is not on Melo level yet, and there's no guarantee he will get there. If he doesn't learn how to get himself on the FT line then this guy is fools gold.

MB isn't on AI level yet either. He might be close on offense, but nowhere close on defense.